How much is "enough?" Do I have to be wealthy and established?

[Enot2]

Yes I do, if he avoids stepping on something that will blow him up.  That's the key, is it not? Going in with open eyes.. for example -- not rationalizing away goofy behavior, etc etc... rationalization is but one of the land mines of the fast paced mentality.. so I reiterate... Go into it with a fast paced mentality and you're probably going to blow yourself up.

Well that's your opinion and your entitled to it.  I don't agree with it but I guess "fast paced mentality" needs to be defined.  Yes one trip is a fast paced mentality, I recomended at least 2, but all can be done in 8 to 10 months.  This timeframe is from the time you meet on the Internet until you file a fiancee visa.

[Misha]

Need more ....?

1.  "from what I have seen RW are looking for older "established" men"

This is simply wrong. If you read Russian discussion sites where RW not looking for a foreign husbands discuss ideal ages, they will invariably all say that they want their husband to be no more than 5 years older than themselves. Ten years is usually considered pushing the envelope. As for "established" men, most RW that I know (friends, acquaintances, relatives) married young men while studying (i.e. fellow students) or who were just starting to work. In other words, most did not marry "established" men.

[Enot2]

This is simply wrong. If you read Russian discussion sites where RW not looking for a foreign husbands discuss ideal ages, they will invariably all say that they want their husband to be no more than 5 years older than themselves. Ten years is usually considered pushing the envelope. As for "established" men, most RW that I know (friends, acquaintances, relatives) married young men while studying (i.e. fellow students) or who were just starting to work. In other words, most did not marry "established" men.

Yes I agree and as I said, a lot of bad information in this thread.

[Vaughn]

This what I said, " It just takes a lot of time and patience ... and money which you have with a $50K salary."

Newsflash - the guy hasn't begun his career yet. That's why folks here advised him to establish himself. Which would
also enable him to accrue some paid vacation time.

What I had issue with was the minimum of spending 25K for travel expenses.

I agree with you completely on this item. Unless the poster was implying 25K for 10 or more journeys I believe
this figure is inflated...

As for "established" men, most RW that I know (friends, acquaintances, relatives) married young men while studying (i.e. fellow students) or who were just starting to work. In other words, most did not marry "established" men.

No surprise here. But the difference is that few, if any, of these marriages involved one spouse having to
move across an ocean to take the vows. Misha, am I wrong ?

[ECOCKS]

Newsflash - the guy hasn't begun his career yet. That's why folks here advised him to establish himself. Which would
also enable him to accrue some paid vacation time.

I agree with you completely on this item. Unless the poster was implying 25K for 10 or more journeys I believe
this figure is inflated...

Not by the time he takes his trips, dates a bit to build a relationship, pays his immigration fees, supports family, gets her moved and repositions into his new life.

No surprise here. But the difference is that few, if any, of these marriages involved one spouse having to
move across an ocean to take the vows. Misha, am I wrong ?

[Enot2]

Newsflash - the guy hasn't begun his career yet. That's why folks here advised him to establish himself.

News Flash:  It doesn't cost any money to meet women on the Internet.  

By May he should have one (or more) picked out and eventually see.  This will also give him some time to learn about scammers, green card grabbers (GCG), good time girls (GTG), other perils of finding a foreign bride, Russian culture, FSU airports/taxis, and many other things.  This experience my even change his mind about a foreign bride.  Put this time to work NOW, don't wait.

[JohnDearGreen]

This what I said, " It just takes a lot of time and patience ... and money which you have with a $50K salary."

He does not have a 50k salary.  His income is probably zero until next May.  Even with a 50k salary, it would probably take about 3 years to save 15k working in a large city.

Even in 2000, I read about a postal clerk with only enough money for one trip.   After fumbling around with Russian speaking ladies a few days, he did manage to find an English speaking lady.   I believe they got married after only a half week of dating.   I wouldn't recommend anyone with only 15k savings to go into this.   I would guess the median value spent by guys on this board to be around 50k.

[Daveman]

This is simply wrong. If you read Russian discussion sites where RW not looking for a foreign husbands

And that is part of the point I was making up thread.  Most western guys meet the ladies who are looking for a foreign man.  The mentality dynamic of this group, even the elusive common denominator varies.   Some are not necessarily diamonds who just cannot find a partner.  Their motives can and do vary widely.

[Misha]

No surprise here. But the difference is that few, if any, of these marriages involved one spouse having to move across an ocean to take the vows. Misha, am I wrong ?

No, but what does it matter? Reading the posts on these forums, you get the impression that all RW are looking for a much older man to be her sugar daddy. Most, in my many, many years of going to Russia, are looking for a man they can love  As I noted, I have known a few people who went to Russia after their studies, taught English for a couple years, and invariably they came back married. They did not have any capital (other than what they had to pay for their plane tickets over). They went, they worked, they found women who fell in love with them, and they came back. Nothing complicated there.

[Doll]

If you don't know what "less westernized" means then there is no reason for you to know or care.  I will say it is one of the reasons why I love my wife very much and would take her over a western woman any day.

Well, if you use the term you know the definition, so what is it?

[Misha]

And that is part of the point I was making up thread.  Most western guys meet the ladies who are looking for a foreign man.  The mentality dynamic of this group, even the elusive common denominator varies.   Some are not necessarily diamonds who just cannot find a partner.  Their motives can and do vary widely.

Exactly. I would be comparable to a foreigner going to the United States, dating women looking for a sugar daddy and then saying that all American 20-year-olds are looking solely for a "mentor" to "spoil and pamper" them. It would be an incorrect generalization.

[Enot2]

He does not have a 50k salary.  His income is probably zero until next May.  Even with a 50k salary, it would probably take about 3 years to save 15k working in a large city.

Even in 2000, I read about a postal clerk with only enough money for one trip.   After fumbling around with Russian speaking ladies a few days, he did manage to find an English speaking lady.   I believe they got married after only a half week of dating.   I wouldn't recommend anyone with only 15k savings to go into this.   I would guess the median value spent by guys on this board to be around 50k.

He can begin his quest now by corresponding with women using the Internet, read my post above #55.

You can easily do the entire process using 15K or less.  That price includes a 2 year green card.

[Vaughn]

No, but what does it matter?

With respect to the OP's plans and desires, it makes quite a bit of difference. Your advice for men to spend extended
time over in the FSU is welcome and its merits understood. If only I could have done that I would have.

We're talking about a fellow who wants to bring over a foreign bride - and quickly. Given he will be seeking a lady
between 18 and 21 (at this point in time) how do you rate his chances of success?

News Flash:  It doesn't cost any money to meet women on the Internet.

You're correct, sir. The problem arises when one actually decides to visit the woman. I only mention this so the OP
knows that the projected salary will come into play before any of his desires can be acted upon.

[BillyB]

So basically I'm a 22 year old graduate student and I'm looking for a wife. I've been thinking about FSU girls for years now. Come next May, I will be making about $50,000/year at my job. When I finish graduate school(3 years) it will be double that or more. What are the normal expectations of FSU women? I speak basic Russian and I'm a reasonably attractive guy(I have no problem getting dates with US women, they just aren't dedicated enough for me). I'm looking for someone younger than me who will treat me nicely, respect me and support my decisions. Most importantly, I'm looking for someone to fall in love with at a rather fast pace who will marry and do anything to be with me.

Money is not a problem. I once had a part time truck driver working for me who made little. He got a wife in the Phillipines and they lived in a 30 year old motor home. They had 4 babies and he quit so he could be a full time mom while his wife worked 2-3 jobs at any given time. They have a huge age difference and they've been together for about 10 years now....surprisingly. She must be one devoted woman since there are much better male candidates out there.

Your biggest problem will be yourself. You are young and inexperienced. Many RW would eat you up and spit you out. The insincere women are better than the sincere ones at attracting and securing a man and his wallet. If you don't know how to distiguish insincere attention from real feelings from a sincere woman, then you are ripe to be taken to the cleaners.

Read a lot here and learn. Use sites that aren't questionable to locate RW. Don't fall in love with a photo. The best woman isn't always the most beautiful. Get on the phone with your favorite women a lot. If you can't have an enjoyable conversation with them on the phone, there is no reason to spend $3000 on a first date. Let the women talk about their hopes and dreams before you do. That way you know they aren't just trying to say what you want to hear after they learn yours. Don't talk about how much money you have, only that you are financially secure to have a family. Gold diggers won't like talking to you and prefer to spend their time on the guys they know have the big bucks.

Don't rush to get married. It has to feel right and with a good compatible woman with similiar life beliefs if you are wanting the chance to marry only once in your life.

[Enot2]

Money is not a problem. I once had a part time truck driver working for me who made little. He got a wife in the Phillipines and they lived in a 30 year old motor home. They had 4 babies and he quit so he could be a full time mom while his wife worked 2-3 jobs at any given time. They have a huge age difference and they've been together for about 10 years now....surprisingly. She must be one devoted woman since there are much better male candidates out there.

Your biggest problem will be yourself. You are young and inexperienced. Many RW would eat you up and spit you out. The insincere women are better than the sincere ones at attracting and securing a man and his wallet. If you don't know how to distiguish insincere attention from real feelings from a sincere woman, then you are ripe to be taken to the cleaners.

Read a lot here and learn. Use sites that aren't questionable to locate RW. Don't fall in love with a photo. The best woman isn't always the most beautiful. Get on the phone with your favorite women a lot. If you can't have an enjoyable conversation with them on the phone, there is no reason to spend $3000 on a first date. Let the women talk about their hopes and dreams before you do. That way you know they aren't just trying to say what you want to hear after they learn yours. Don't talk about how much money you have, only that you are financially secure to have a family. Gold diggers won't like talking to you and prefer to spend their time on the guys they know have the big bucks.

Don't rush to get married. It has to feel right and with a good compatible woman with similiar life beliefs if you are wanting the chance to marry only once in your life.

Best advice given so far.  Thanks for the input Billy.

[SMS60]

Aaaaarrrghhhh!!

Quit putting women so high on the pole.

Quit asking yourself if your .........wealthy enough.......tall enough........good looking enough..........have a big enough schlong......skinny enough..........and on and on......quit it.......Arrrrrrrrgh!!!. Of course you are.

You should be qualifying the woman. You should be doing the check list not vice versa. Once you take this approach things will find a way to filter out the women you dont want. You want to find someone who enhances your life not causes grief.

Women are the dessert in life and you and your life is the main course. Take control.

[Misha]

Vaugn, I would say the odds are not good,which is why I encourage him ti spend more time and take things slowly and date in a more natural way (not so rushed). He is young, je should enjoy life.

[Gator]

You can easily do the entire process using 15K or less.  That price includes a 2 year green card.

Then what?  The period from meeting until she gets her GC is costly, yet the expense does not end there.  Is she employable?  What if she needs a root canal?  Does she make her own clothes?  Does she have a car to drive?  And a trip to the FSU to see her family?  Babies?

[Enot2]

Then what?  The period from meeting until she gets her GC is costly, yet the expense does not end there.  Is she employable?  What if she needs a root canal?  Does she make her own clothes?  Does she have a car to drive?  And a trip to the FSU to see her family?  Babies?

What if he wins the lotto?  What if he inherts a lot of money?  What if his fiancee has a engineering degree that can be converted to an acceptable degree in the USA?

Yes all of your "What Ifs" are valid but I'm sure they don't all apply to Introverted so don't live in a "What If" world.  Each situation is different and "love will find a way".  I'm sure Introverted's first couple of years will be lean and sacarifes must be made but if they really love each other, all the problems you stated can be worked out such as you don't need a car or a trip to the FSU.  All this must be discussed with the lady so she knows what is going on and what will happen.  I know 3 guys that were unemployed when their fiancee arrived and they are doing fine.

[facetrock]

 Hope your kidding about 15k. You can piss that down a rat hole on this quest. Were talking about a young guy with no assets other than maybe a car. I cant say for sure but if there are student loans to pay for that can be another problem. 
  I would think a minimum of 20k after she gets here.
  A 50k job after taxes and rent and other expenses isnt going to leave you enough to make the multiple trips, bring her over, buy her a car, clothes etc etc. No how no way.
 

[Vaughn]

C'mon now, facetrock - love will find a way....

[Enot2]

Hope your kidding about 15k. You can piss that down a rat hole on this quest. Were talking about a young guy with no assets other than maybe a car. I cant say for sure but if there are student loans to pay for that can be another problem. 
  I would think a minimum of 20k after she gets here.
  A 50k job after taxes and rent and other expenses isnt going to leave you enough to make the multiple trips, bring her over, buy her a car, clothes etc etc. No how no way.
 

Who said anything about after she gets here?  My quote was for expenses up to her green card.

If an unemployed guy can do it, I'm sure a college student can.

[facetrock]

  So what does this unemployed guy do when the unemployment runs out. Live on Love? What happens after she gets here is the most important part. What he gonna do, put her in a box and only take her out when he wants to play with her? Taking the trip and getting engaged is the easy part.
  But man the expenses after she gets here will be significant. Why dont we just advise the guy to go take a trip there. See what its all about. Let him get through grad school and get the big 150k job( which I doubt) then he will be at the ripe old age of 25. His life will be in order and ready to make some puppies

[Enot2]

  So what does this unemployed guy do when the unemployment runs out. Live on Love? What happens after she gets here is the most important part. What he gonna do, put her in a box and only take her out when he wants to play with her? Taking the trip and getting engaged is the easy part.
  But man the expenses after she gets here will be significant. Why dont we just advise the guy to go take a trip there. See what its all about. Let him get through grad school and get the big 150k job( which I doubt) then he will be at the ripe old age of 25. His life will be in order and ready to make some puppies

It's a fine idea, it's just that Introverted doesn't want to wait.  As I said the Internet is free and the time can be spent finding someone he might like.  This will take 3-4 months.  Then he goes to she her.  Anothetr 3-4 months of e-mails/contact and the he seee her again.  Then the paper work starts which will take another 5 months.  So we are taking at least 11 months if he takes 2 trips, which he should do at a minimum to get her here.  So maybe he waits anither year to bring her over or maybe he has a part time job which will support them.  Or maybe he will win the lotto or inhert big money.  Once again, don't live in a "what if" world.  Let the 11 months pass and evaluate the situation.  In 11 months anything can happen and a lot could change ... he could even have a good job and go to school at night and weekends.

As I say, I know 3 guys that were unemployed when their fiancee came over and all is good.  It can be done with communication, patience, and sacrifices.

[facetrock]

  Enot,  A guy working full time plus going to grad school isnt going to have time to think much less worry about some gal in the FSU. Plus if he did get her over here he wont be able to give her the attention she needs to adapt because of work and grad school.
 I'm not talking about what ifs here. Thats a fact just like its a fact there is alot of expense after she gets here.
  What your advocating here is a disaster in the making.