How much is "enough?" Do I have to be wealthy and established?

[Vaughn]

So we are taking at least 11 months if he takes 2 trips, which he should do at a minimum to get her here.... 
 ... Let the 11 months pass and evaluate the situation.

So you're advising him to evaluate the situation when she arrives....  incredibly half-baked plan. But then again,
this lack of plan mortises quite well with your assumption that he will meet the right woman on Trip One.

I'm not trying to discourage him, only to consider the consequences of rushing things along for the sake of
satisfying only himself. It could work out if nothing unforeseen happens - those unforeseen things that
Gator mentioned - and a few of them, if not most - are likely to occur. A car. Babies. Sickness. It would be
wise for him to spend time studying the instructions for I-864 - its requirements, and consequences of signing
such a contract. I-864 is not a "what if..." ~ It WILL come into play.

I strongly advise Introverted to consider "what if's" rather than take the "What - Me Worry?" approach to what
is a lifetime-effect decision. This isn't like a trip to Pet Smart.

[facetrock]

Very well said Vaughn.

[Enot2]

  Enot,  A guy working full time plus going to grad school isnt going to have time to think much less worry about some gal in the FSU. Plus if he did get her over here he wont be able to give her the attention she needs to adapt because of work and grad school.
 I'm not talking about what ifs here. Thats a fact just like its a fact there is alot of expense after she gets here.
  What your advocating here is a disaster in the making.

And I'm talking about letting the 11 months pass and then evaluate the situation, a lot can change in 11 months and if they don't then evaluate again before her visa expires 6 months later.

I can't believe how many people think this is a black and white process.  There are many ways to get a fiancee/wife here, not just one.  Isn't evaluating the situation an option?  I guess not, it's always if you don't have the money now then you never will so why try?  Such a negative attitude.

[Misha]

A 50k job after taxes and rent and other expenses isnt going to leave you enough to make the multiple trips, bring her over, buy her a car, clothes etc etc. No how no way.

I don't agree with Enot, but you guys seem to forget that the dynamic of a young woman marrying a 20-something-year-old man is a lot different than were she to marry a 40 or 50-something. She would be more likely to do it for love and much less likely to do it "по расчёту." Where is it written that a guy must buy her a car immediately? My wife and I, for example, did well with only one car these past four years. We have now bought a new one and my wife will be using the older car around town as we keep the new car for longer trips.

[Enot2]

So you're advising him to evaluate the situation when she arrives....  incredibly half-baked plan. But then again, this lack of plan mortises quite well with your assumption that he will meet the right woman on Trip One.

No I'm saying evaluate before she arrives, if he can't afford it financially then evalate again in 6 months before her visa expires.  If unemployed men can do this financially, then Introverted can.

I am not assuming anything.  All timeframes given were minimum.  He may never find anyone and he may hit the jackpot on trip one.  Stop thinking about the now and making up things that can happen.  As I said earlier, he could win the lotto or inherit money so not only bad things can happen.

I hope you know how to stop babies from happening.

[Vaughn]

I cannot believe how passionately some folks will defend irresponsible advice.

Has anybody here, young or old, ever considered evaluating affordability before
buying a new automobile?

Of course, most have.

So why would you throw that consideration out the window before asking a woman the lifetime question ?

Does "for richer, for poorer" relieve one of the responsibility?   Not in my world.

The logic is beyond me.

Misha, yes, young lovers can make do with less. I spent the first five years of my first marriage
in a tiny one bedroom flat, working nights at an ice cream parlor, attending classes by day. We
struggled, but we succeeded. Introverted can certainly do this - and enjoy the experience as
well. I have no issue with that aspect at all. Those are very happy and romantic times he still
has yet to savor.

It's the rush job approach that raises my concern. Enot2 feels differently. He proposes an "evaluation"
11 months down the road, I assume he means at visa issuance time. My question to Enot2 becomes this:

Why bother with an evaluation at all if unemployed men can pull this off too? 

[kievstar]

This guy will do fine finding a woman.  However he will need to date in his league.  League is not just looks and income.

He should also marry after he finishes school and can spend time with his wife.  A RW in USA needs a lot of attention when she comes.  He should put a plan on being married 4-5 years from now.  He can start the process now.

I would suggest take a tour first with Jack.  And plan on not being serious with any woman before, during, or after tour.  He needs practice in dating and meeting numerous woman.  Date many and at same time during tour.  He will need practice.  The words he used about finding a woman to fall quickly for him and get married is words of a man with confidence issues.  A tour will help him get over this.

Start now studying Russian 1-2 hours a day.  Go tour 2011 with Jack. 

Late 2011 make another trip 1-2 weeks to one city and meet many RW with little writing upfront.  A young man who speaks a little Russian can find women lining up in an agency who are serious on an hours notice.  Keep making trips until you meet the right one.

This is a very easy process to find a RW and have a happy marriage.  To many men rush it or cut corners. 

Marrying a woman under 26 years old is very risky as she will change more than a woman over 27 years old.  That is why meet 5-7 a day over tea and you can weed through the non serious ones very easily.  Do not waste time on letters or free personals.  The serious girls will take you to their parents and if you get along with the parents things will be well for you. 

If you meet a woman and get married in two years that can work as well but plan on making school and work #2 after your wife.  You may even have to take longer to graduate.  Foreign woman in a foreign country needs a lot of attention or a job to keep her busy.

[Misha]

It's the rush job approach that raises my concern.

Same here. The OP is young. Many young men and women his age take a year off to travel the world. I can't see what the rush is for him either  The money is less of an issue, than taking the time to do it right and enjoy a bit of his youth.

[Seeker]

Same here. The OP is young. Many young men and women his age take a year off to travel the world. I can't see what the rush is for him either  The money is less of an issue, than taking the time to do it right and enjoy a bit of his youth.

But youth is wasted on the young....  I can attest to that.  And I am sure most of you less than youthful would agree with me.  We made our mistakes... he will make his.  And we can all sit around and say "If I only knew then what I know now..."

[Enot2]

My question to Enot2 becomes this:

Why bother with an evaluation at all if unemployed men can pull this off too? 

It's an option but I think an evaluation would be in order in the case of Introverted or anyone that may have a financial issue.

[Enot2]

But youth is wasted on the young....  I can attest to that.  And I am sure most of you less than youthful would agree with me.  We made our mistakes... he will make his.  And we can all sit around and say "If I only knew then what I know now..."

Yep ... so true.  We have spoken our piece and given our advice to Introverted.  If he wants to continue with the "fast track" then let's support him instead of coming up with "what ifs" and reasons he shouldn't pursue a foreign bride.

[Daveman]

...

I hope you know how to stop babies from happening.

nah, if unemployed just let 'em happen and sell 'em to the baby oil factory!

...We have now bought a new one and my wife will be using the older car around town as we keep the new car for longer trips.

Heh... I wonder how long it'll be before she finagles the new car.   remember the "old" car is not as dependable and she is afraid to be stranded!  

...
The logic is beyond me.

Misha, yes, young lovers can make do with less. I spent the first five years of my first marriage
in a tiny one bedroom flat, working nights at an ice cream parlor, attending classes by day. We
struggled, but we succeeded. Introverted can certainly do this - and enjoy the experience as
well. I have no issue with that aspect at all. Those are very happy and romantic times he still
has yet to savor.

It's the rush job approach that raises my concern. Enot2 feels differently. He proposes an "evaluation"
11 months down the road, I assume he means at visa issuance time. My question to Enot2 becomes this:

Why bother with an evaluation at all if unemployed men can pull this off too?  

Young lovers can do whatever they have the desire and will to accomplish. Pain in the butt and all.  

>> It's the rush job approach that raises my concern <<

Yep.  KenC had a fairly good description of this as a "wife vacancy".  

I do agree with Enot that one visit to meet, and then a follow up extended visit could be enough face time.  Communication in the internet is cheap.  I believe Introvert could very well be successful at this --- if he doesn't get in a big hurry  

[Seeker]

Yep ... so true.  We have spoken our piece and given our advice to Introverted.  If he wants to continue with the "fast track" then let's support him instead of coming up with "what ifs" and reasons he shouldn't pursue a foreign bride.

But that is the power of hindsight.  We with experience will try to tell it to others even if it is not what they want to hear.  It is human nature to try to pass on our lessons to others.  Even if they do not want to know them and can not (or will not) benefit from them.

[seraphimangel]

Hey dude! Let me chime in here for a second and simply say that I have been here for a little bit literally, and I have read a bit from these guys and thrown out 80% of what was said as subjective advice based on their personality and biased experience.

I can simply say this, I roughly make 10x what you are going to make a year out of college and was swimming the pond of the same age fish as you're looking for realizing more and more that I was a bigger fish then them, but being lured in by their attractiveness and seemingly brilliant ability to charm you when you are at your weakest.  You have a very slim chance of attaining the goal you want.  You're imagining that you can recreate what your parents had, they had the benefit of a common language, culture and similar struggles. 

You want to meet someone with a different language, culture, different life experience.  You want to essentially meet someone who you can barely relate to you on anything other than a romantic level.. .and then you seem to want this person to live by you as a provider in a foreign land... with you as their only source of connection to their former world.

You will never be their best option in life, I can promise you that.  You need to build a relationship.  They need to get to know you, love you... because loyalty is built through love and time... not whim and fancy.

After a month away from the scene because I started dating locally, I realized that I was rather foolish in my endeavor and some of the people I had spoken to, came to contact me directly and change their whole personalities once they realized I was no longer one of those "Agency" dudes and that I did not desire a wife or relationship from them.

I now am friends with 4 agency girls (3 of which admit to having local boyfriends) and they fully admit that it's just a game and a way to make money.  1 of which came to the U.S. on a student visa recently and at the expense of another guy and came to visit me (without his knowledge) while he was at work.  She entirely admitted to telling him how much she loves him and laughing about it while having lunch with me.  It's amazing what you guys seem to write to these girls because they forward some of the conversations when they find the writing ambiguous.  Plus, it's amazing how often men try to buy love OR EVEN WORSE, insult people imagining that you are saving them and they have no better option... it denigrates them.

So, most people in the age range you're looking at have no desire to marry a foreign man they meet online, but some do have a desire to leave where they are from... it's a difficult position for them.  Most try to find ways to have their local boyfriend and them to relocate to another European (western) country in time.  Some realize it's a failed venture. 

Since I've now been friends with people who are on dating sites, non-dating sites and academic sites.... Without going into detail, I have had many visitors come to me, stay with me, use me as a tour guide... and sometimes alone, sometimes with boyfriend, another time with a female friend.  My slavic social circle has expanded hugely.

Sooooooo.... back to the main point.  BUILD RELATIONSHIPS!!! My ego would have been demolished if I had gone immediately to FSU without actually knowing the people I know now.  I keep being told all the time by my friends about how they screw over stupid boys who spend a lot of time promising, promising and promising and not being able to follow through on what is promised... and once you break a promise when they barely know you anyhow... you're doomed.

BUILD FRIENDSHIPS AND RELATIONSHIPS.  BUILD FRIENDSHIPS AND RELATIONSHIPS. BUILD FRIENDSHIPS AND RELATIONSHIPS. 

And again, this is just my opinion.  Your mileage may vary.

[Misha]

Dave, we are within walking distance of work and pretty much everywhere where my wife goes with the car. Being stranded is not an issue besides, she does not want to even risk a scratch on the new car. Also it is bigger, so not as easy to maneuver...

[BillyB]

seraphimangel,

From your first post here to your lastest one, all I can say is you've come a long way in a short time grasshopper. You have a better understanding of agency games and how RW can use a guy to step up in life so it will help you be on guard and increase your chances in finding a wonderful woman. A guy doesn't have to walk your shoes but he can read your and other people's experiences to arm himself with knowledge.

[seraphimangel]

seraphimangel,

From your first post here to your lastest one, all I can say is you've come a long way in a short time grasshopper. You have a better understanding of agency games and how RW can use a guy to step up in life so it will help you be on guard and increase your chances in finding a wonderful woman. A guy doesn't have to walk your shoes but he can read your and other people's experiences to arm himself with knowledge.

Thanks.  Yeah, it's very different now.  Have a great time at home, and I'm visiting a friend in Riga soon too.  It's simply amazing how easy it is to meet people, when you get away from those sites.  Those sites are horrible places for me. 

[Jooky]

Hey Seraphim,

Since it sounds like you used Anastasia Web extensively, it would be interesting to hear about your full experiences and opinions now no this other thread where AWeb is being discussed:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=12304.0

[seraphimangel]

Hey Seraphim,

Since it sounds like you used Anastasia Web extensively, it would be interesting to hear about your full experiences and opinions now no this other thread where AWeb is being discussed:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=12304.0

Done, going to bed now dude.  Good luck.

[groovlstk]

Yep ... so true.  We have spoken our piece and given our advice to Introverted.  If he wants to continue with the "fast track" then let's support him instead of coming up with "what ifs" and reasons he shouldn't pursue a foreign bride.

I could never throw my "support" behind someone who is doing something foolish and doesn't want to know about the risks. That sort of counterfeit sentiment is something my neurotic female friends would embrace, and I hope RWD never becomes such a place.

[Enot2]

I could never throw my "support" behind someone who is doing something foolish and doesn't want to know about the risks. That sort of counterfeit sentiment is something my neurotic female friends would embrace, and I hope RWD never becomes such a place.

So you would rather have him go blindly into this process with no help or support.  I'm sure he will encounter at leat 1  scammer during this process, shouldn't we be around to help this guy?  I know I will because this forum is about helping people and I'm sorry that this isn't one of your goals for this forum.

[I/O]

You sound like a total looser

That's a bit tough, I wouldn't say "total"................

[groovlstk]

I know I will because this forum is about helping people and I'm sorry that this isn't one of your goals for this forum.

Don't be sorry, Enot. Putting words in someone else's mouth shouldn't cause you such grief.

[Misha]

So, most people in the age range you're looking at have no desire to marry a foreign man they meet online, but some do have a desire to leave where they are from...

The thing is that most women in that age range don't sign up with agencies. Almost all women that age are doing the normal things women that age do: they are finishing their studies, they are working, they are having fun with friends....

Since I've now been friends with people who are on dating sites, non-dating sites and academic sites....

Much better options.

[GTM]

So you would rather have him go blindly into this process with no help or support.  I'm sure he will encounter at leat 1  scammer during this process, shouldn't we be around to help this guy?  I know I will because this forum is about helping people and I'm sorry that this isn't one of your goals for this forum.

Thanks for looking out for us newbies Enot2.  I am in a similar sitution as Introverted is and I will be contacting you with questions.