Cultural vs Behavioral differences

[Seeker]

Children will pick up the language of their peers and parents. The younger they start, the faster and more completely they pick it up.

Spoken fluency and large vocabulary doesn't automatically carry over to writing skills or reading comprehension.

Some people have a wonderful relationship with their in-laws, including being able to live with them in the same household, some don't. Sometimes the in-laws are to blame. sometimes its the spouse, sometimes its themselves.

Many people have issues, some known, some unknown (even to themselves), in coping with the numerous and diverse concepts of marriage and child-raising.

And that is why I think 'behavior' before I think 'culture'.  Cultures are diverse within just one country.  Even within one state (in US)... or even one city.  Behaviors for the most part seem universal though.  Percentages might vary, but from what I have seen it is not by much.  It is easy to exaggerate the differences, but reality is we are mostly the same.  Different experiences may contribute to changes in each individual, but we draw from the same pool of available persona.

[GQBlues]

I don't believe in 100% views in personal relationships.  Opinions are a different matter.

LOL. You said...

"She learns that marriage to this man is not what she expected.  He is not the provider she anticipated, she needs help with the kids, etc.  Kids, in many respects, highlight the strengths or weaknesses of a marriage."

She has no ESL aide in her class full time.  For the past decade, she has had, in each year, 2 or 3 students in her class with no English language skills, either in the first or second grade.  She has told me that by year end, they have no issues.  Their issues are usually in the first 3 months.  Kids are very accepting and helpful to them.  Most of her students in the past five years have been from China, and most ended up being the top student on graduating elementary school.

Fair enough...now let me share you my anecdotal version. My wife's sister and nephew had been living in Toronto for over 7 years now. We had her sis and nephew here when we got married. Her nephew was way out of control and blatantly ignores her mother. The kid was about 4 years old. Out of control and doesn't speak English. Moved that boy in Canada when he was barely a year old, and he still doesn't speak a word of English beyond 'hello'. I remember telling her sister that maybe it won't be such a bad idea, since she is also having difficulties speaking English, that they ought to just start speaking largely English at home. It would help her and the boy...this was her response.

"Why? He is Russian. I first want to make sure he learns Russian and he never forget this! English I am not so concerned. Maybe when he grow up, maybe he will decide to live in Russia instead!"

"Never take the man out of the boy!" Anonymous Babushka riding on the bus and castigating wife and wife's sis when they tried to discipline the boy about sitting down while the bus was in motion and boy would have none of it.

Within a year after that, when the kid started going to school, and the ensuing 3 years, he was in and out of different schools, mother/Dad had been meeting with faculties, etc...all because the kid is disruptive, cannot communicate with other children, is often alienated by other kids because they don't understand him vis-a-vis. There was a point last year where her nephew would always asked my wife to get online so he can speak with someone who understands English. Her other sister in Germany would say hello on messenger (in Russian, as she doesn't speak English), and the kid would write,

~I do not want to speak with you, I want to speak with Natalia because she understands me. I do not want to speak Russian because no one understand Russian except my stupid mother.~

The kid have social behavioral issue they had to take him in St Petersburg for some treatment/study of some sort I do not know. There's supposed to be a behavioral center for children in SP.

I will not say every AM/RW couple have the same problem because I do not know every AM/RW couple and how their respective relationships are. I had just recently spoken about this very matter with my wife because we are at the very front of this phase. We were discussing it because of all the inflammatory issues that are happening to other couples we know about that included those factors mentioned above. FSUW wife, in-laws, language, child/children. Then this latest news about GregfromGA. This is REALITY for some, few, many, etc..whether you believe it or not.

One couple never had plans on bringing her mother here until life for the mum got from bad to worst. Abused by hubby, no work,no money. FSUW talks and asked AM husband to help. Do you think he should said, "there's no #!#@! way your non-English speaking mother is ever going to live with us!"?

Are you blaming HIM because he agreed to help his wife help her mother and bring her here? Was that your point?

That was 3.5 years ago. The mother's been her for 3 years. They can't afford to support her and get child-care at the same time, so babushka gets the boy. Dad asked not to speak Russian in the house for the boy's benefit (not with babushka around that boy. It ain't gonna happen.) The boy gets to learn Russian instead because Dad only counts as one in the house. Now the boy is always in trouble in school. Hostile to all the kids. Gets frustrated easily. Tells the parents to get him a tutor to help him learn English. Babushka believes that's all BS (just like you do). He'll learn in due time. Dad gets angry, wife gets angry, babushka gets angry, their entire phocking world gets angry. For what? Because babushka believes learning English for her is not a necessity and thus neither it should be for the boy. Just like you do. In her mind, she's taking care of the child and that pretty much balances her keep.

Today, I'm sure the alimony payments keeps her very comfortable at nights.

That's not a language issue, but an integration issue.

How the heck do you integrate when you can't even communicate! Holy Cow!

In the end, whether or not you accept it won't make a difference to my existence or my life.

Likewise.  

There is no one answer fits all solutions to these problems.

What problem? According to you there's plenty of time for these children to learn English so what the heck, eh? Besides that, the woman's parent/s is/are HIS problem regardless what he does.

Finally, I will note that many men here are state they wanted a FSUW because FSUW are so much more family oriented than WW.  If that's the case, you take the good with the bad.  If a man marries a woman to be a "traditional wife", he should expect, and accept, her "traditional values", which often means the woman has the final say when it comes to children.

Interesting view opinion, ooppps!

Why would a man suddenly expect his wife to become an American?

This has nothing whatsoever to do with wanting a woman to become American. It has greatly to do with rearing children to speak the language spoken in the country they're growing in. That is not difficult to understand nor is that an insurmountable task for any wife to understand.

[Jooky]

I grew up in a bilingual home.

Same here, and I grew up with my Yaya (grandma) living with us. I didn't start speaking English until I was 4 or so, but that because my Papa wanted us kids to learn Spanish first as he knew we'd pick up English quickly once we started interacting with other kids.

Any American father who is facing this issue can resolve it easily be speaking English to his child.  Problem solved.

That's the same thought I had reading these recent stories. Don't these fathers speak to their child? Children pick up languages very easy. I've seen it my whole life with many of my friends and now children of family and friends growing up in bilingual households.

It sounds like the real problems here are an insistence against learning English, which is just stupid, and mostly lack of discipline.

In another thread, Gator mentioned stark differences between a Russian and an American approach to raising children. I'd like to hear more about what differences posters here have seen and experienced.

[Ade]

She learns that marriage to this man is not what she expected.  He is not the provider she anticipated, she needs help with the kids, etc.  Kids, in many respects, highlight the strengths or weaknesses of a marriage.

But... isn't she supposed to be a "traditional" woman that keeps the house, looks after her husband, works and raises the kids all by her lonesome?

Not knowing English is no big deal, millions of kids enter school with no English language abilities, and learn within a few months.  Kids will absorb a language quickly.  

My wife was out visiting a new friend, her husband and their kid on Saturday; she's Russian and he's Spanish. She speaks Russian to their daughter, he speaks Spanish to her and generally the house language is English. The daughter picks up Norwegian in kindergarten... and everything seems to be working out fine and the girl will end up fluent in 4 languages.

My wife and I have talked about what to do with languages and how we will manage. I think the couple in the above example could be our role models.

I read a study performed in the states some time ago about immigrants and the bi and tri lingual thing and the "disadvantages" they face. It turns out that although their grades in school are generally lower than their native English speaking peers at first while they pick up English, eventually they surpass their peers. I guess all that extra stimulation they get seems to do some good.

Further, if an English speaking father is interacting with his children, they will learn English.

Yes, but isn't the "traditional" woman supposed to do all that raising and interacting with kids stuff herself?

If a man feels he is a stranger in his own home, he is to blame.

The decisions we make... personal responsibility is a wonderful thing.

[Ranetka]

.

[Misha]

The boy gets to learn Russian instead because Dad only counts as one in the house.

Quite often the dad counts as less than one in the house in my experience. I have friends where both the mother and father-in-law moved in. The father was not trusted with the children. I find that having babushka living in a household curtails normal bonding as a family: dad with wife, dad with kids.... But, as you mention, there is often a lot of pressure put on the guy to bring over the parents. He may be nice and will eventually agree to it.

[Gator]

If a man feels he is a stranger in his own home, he is to blame.

Yes, he is to blame.  Each of us is responsible for our own happiness.  Yet, the wife shares culpability.

Feeling like a stranger in that special, protected space called home means that the marriage is broken.   The proper step is not to spend time assigning blame but to make it better.  At this stage, the marriage is probably irretrievably broken.  So the best way to make it better is to consult with an attorney, not a therapist.  It is too late now for therapy.  Living alone is far better than living with the wrong person.
 

[Gator]

 

they should have discussed this before having children 

It sounds like the MIL needs to be a party to the discussion and a three-way contract written and signed.

Yes, some issues can be discussed beforehand.  However, does a 21-yo knows exactly what she will feel upon having children? 

"Yes dear, I want you to have a relationship with our children.  BTW, I will feel jealous because my children will be more important to me than you.  In  addition my American life will still be empty of close friends so my children and MIL will be my world.   BTW, I unconsciously will contaminate the relationship between you and our children."

"They must know both Russian and English.  I will do this by speaking only Russian to them all day while you are working.  And if I am working, my mama will speak to them.  When you come home tired I know you will give them English lessons.  If our children know little English, they will not be able to play with neighborhood kids; however, that's good because I will have more of their time.  Besides  the kids' mothers will not like me."

[Gator]

Quite often the dad counts as less than one in the house in my experience. I have friends where both the mother and father-in-law moved in. The father was not trusted with the children. I find that having babushka living in a household curtails normal bonding as a family: dad with wife, dad with kids.... But, as you mention, there is often a lot of pressure put on the guy to bring over the parents. He may be nice and will eventually agree to it.

I have no experience with this, yet much of what you observe would be my expectation if everyone is "normal."  I do not understand why  "The father was not trusted with the children."  Very odd.   

In my case when married, the MIL did not have a close relationship with her grandchildren (and did not want one).   She resented watching the kids when we took a trip just for the two of us.  When we returned she would complain about the kids' behavior (as if a 7-yo should be well behaved, especially after consuming sugar). 

[Misha]

I have no experience with this, yet much of what you observe would be my expectation if everyone is "normal."  I do not understand why  "The father was not trusted with the children."  Very odd. 

Quite simple. Many (not all) Russian women are very smothering with their children. They hover over then without respite. Canadians not quite so much. Consequently, this is where the culture thing kicks in. Because some Russians will see their views of raising children as the only right one, they will then be fearful of anybody who does not toe the line, including the husband and father of said children. It is a downward spiral: the darling babushka nervously watches the father with the child and within seconds in swooping in because he is not doing it "right" and if you repeat this daily eventually the father does not know how to deal with the child as he has never held it for longer than five seconds. In the case of the couple I know, the father started to bond with the children when they started to play video games as he finally had something that he could do with the children where the grandmother was finally the one who was left on the sidelines  :evil: I personally, would never recommend having the babushka move in if you have or want to have children. Rent her an apartment, buy her a house, do whatever you must do, but make sure that she gets to go "home" at some point 

[BC]

If one considers:

Cultural

Environmental

Behavioral


I guess one could classify many of the remarks as a product of the environment where a person was raised.  If so, a new environment should create change.. maybe not immediately but over time.  If it doesn't then what you are probably left with is a behavioral problem using Occam's Razor.  Failure to assimilate in the new environment would be a behavioral problem, although I think most men do hope that new environs will work positive instead of negative.  Maybe overly optimistic on this point?

After several long term (90 day) visits from MIL / FIL, my first hand experience is that some of the old ways and environmental issues can come back, like a flashback.  First couple of visits go quite well, but can get weary.  This visit was the first where I had to put my foot down and dictate what I believe is acceptable and unacceptable behavior.  Much to MIL's consternation a sign showing the direction of the airport went up. Maybe it was that they felt too much at home and less reserved in their opin and practices.  Maybe I'm just getting more sensitive to goings on as my ability to communicate improves.

In any case future trips will be shorter.  Much shorter.

Back on topic and bottom line, all points to behavioral which are inherently more difficult to change or modify.  Also hardest to detect, some take time.. a long time.

jb said often one needs the patience of a saint, but I don't relish that award posthumously.  As patient as one can be, the line has to be clearly drawn somewhere.  Maybe the 7 year relationship point is where the rubber really meets the road.

[GQBlues]

In anticipation of the varied levels of experiences and respective stages of people's relationships, I did emphasized getting feedbacks from these men. I knew it'll be interesting to get varied perspective and then compare those to actual experiences. In more ways than one, this alone will give glimpses of different perspective into every segment of every relationship.

Things change, living conditions change, etc...so it matters little sometimes whether or not discussion like this ever took place before committing into a marriage with anyone from another culture. More times than not, in-laws will find themselves to you (married AMs) instead of the other way around. There will be folks who'll believe this as heaven sent and there will be others who won't be able to weather that type of living condition. Hopefully for all of you (us), it's the former. But either way, be forewarned.

For those who are in the beginning of their journey, try and live this reality and get your in-laws to stay with you, here in the US - not in FSU, for at least a month, or if possible, more. There's better than a good chance they won't know your tongue (if they do, then consider that a major plus, if they don't, well... ) thus every night at the dinner table when that moment hit you and realize you can really never be too much a part of any conversation, relax and just get used to it....you wanted a traditional wife and she's still cuter than any other girl you can attract at home, right?! So, all is still good.

If any part of your wife' demeanor start showing any sign of stress, could be due to trying to find balance between you and her folks/mom, gets tired from having to be a full time translator between you and her folks/mom, etc...relax, take heart and just remember....this was your fault. LOL.

When your own child start to have difficulties associating with you, other kids, etc....relax and get over it, LOL. By now, you should be used to that reality since you were never able to have 2 minutes of conversation with your in-laws to begin with so why should your own child be a big deal!

Lastly, no these realities simply doesn't happen because Boethius' sister in law sees differently in inner city Canada. And SJ is absolutely right...East LA is littered with rocket scientists, chemists, and young entrepreneurs alike...

orale ese...wassup, 'omey?!

[Boethius]

Gator, it sounds as if you are referring to a particular situation, and I don't want this to be about anyone in particular.

It sounds like the MIL needs to be a party to the discussion and a three-way contract written and signed.

Then you have chosen unwisely.  A woman or a man who puts mama ahead of the spouse is not marriage material.  Can you understand why she was rejected by suitors at home?  This indicates to me the husband did not know her well before marriage.

Yes, some issues can be discussed beforehand.  However, does a 21-yo knows exactly what she will feel upon having children?  

"Yes dear, I want you to have a relationship with our children.  BTW, I will feel jealous because my children will be more important to me than you.

Does a 31 year old know any better?  No one knows exactly what type of parent he/she will be.  But you can determine many things from a person's character.  

The jealousy you describe is, I believe, the result of a lack of communication.

In  addition my American life will still be empty of close friends so my children and MIL will be my world.

A failure of the husband to cultivate contacts for her, or alternately, to know his wife, as some individuals don't want those outside contacts.  Further, FSU cultures are very direct.  Much more direct than North American culture.  A FSUW needs to be taught this, so she is not "offputting".

BTW, I unconsciously will contaminate the relationship between you and our children."

This, also, is usually the result of a failure to communicate.

"They must know both Russian and English.  I will do this by speaking only Russian to them all day while you are working.  And if I am working, my mama will speak to them.  When you come home tired I know you will give them English lessons.  If our children know little English, they will not be able to play with neighborhood kids; however, that's good because I will have more of their time.  Besides  the kids' mothers will not like me."

Preschoolers don't really need to play with other kids.  By the time they hit school, they will learn.  

I would sum up that type of relationship as immature on both sides.  Young children (up to about 8 years of age) take an enormous amount of energy and time.  Parents usually do have to put them first, and the relationship is on a back burner.  But it does get better.  It sounds to me as if that is a relationship in which alienation has occurred.  That's usually because of a failure to communicate, and a lack of appreciation for one another.

Some mothers won't like her, just as she won't like some mothers.  That happens among AW as well.  I think that type of statement is the result of the wife's insecurity.  If the insecurity is a character flaw, it is something that should have been known to the husband before he had chidren.  If it isn't, then he should be guiding her and supporting her in a way so that she overcomes that insecurity. 


Yes, GQ, it is the man's fault.  Generally, it is lack of communication.  In laws can only insert themselves in a relationship if you allow it.  See BC's comments above.

As for children, I doubt they have trouble relating to anyone because of language.    

Finally, East LA indeed may be littered with rocket scientists.  It is poverty, which translates to lack of opportunity, not language, that is the issue.

[GQBlues]

Finally, East LA indeed may be littered with rocket scientists.  It is poverty, which translates to lack of opportunity, not language, that is the issue.

Poverty? LOL. What the heck are you talking about? That can't be because SJ just read an article that these folks are doing far better than English speaking folks...LOL. That's the new reality, Boethius.

------------------------------------------------------------

Here's one peek into one experience....

Prior to the last visit my in-laws spent with us...there were discussions involving time, activities, etc...by now my wife have had experiences with folks coming to stay with us, her 2 sisters, her parents, my folks, relatives, etc...the one distinct difference in this is, my part of the family stays with us anywhere from 7-10 days. 10 days tops. Her part of the family stays with us MINIMUM 30 days.

It's definitely taxiing to me not because I don't like any of her folks, but absence of a common language did start to wear on me a little. At the dinner able, in the car, at home, etc...every day and every night.

Anyway...my wife was fully aware of this and she's been pretty good in establishing herself in the center most everytime. There have been times however that I've notice some strain in her because she's split between pacifying her folks' wants, needs, etc...vs. what she's aware of now that transpires in our daily lives. I've detected subtle disagreements, even arguments between my wife and my MIL a few times. This gets her in a bad mood every time - then it perpetuate unto us.

When they were discussing her folks' plan to vacation with us again, my mil had grander plans on how, who, and what is going to happen. My wife didn't think it's a good idea to have 8 people for over a month in our home on a 1,100 SF apartment at the time. By now, my wife is well aware and appreciates coming 'home' and the benefit of not having to live in cramped condition. Long story short, my wife opinned it isn't a good idea. She tells mil that it won't be fair for me and since we still had to carry our daily routines, to have that many people in our home for that long can be stressful. mil can't quite understand as this mentality simply isn't reality in Russia.

She goes and tell my wife to ask me and let me make that decision. Out of respect to me, I appreciated the gesture though I'm not sure if it's because mil was wary of how I feel, or she took notice of what my wife's decision was and she didn't like it. So my wife asked me...

I told her, " Darling, if it's up to me, no phocking way I'll have that many people in the house at one time for that long. If your mother wants it that way, I'll buy everyone's plane ticket and send all of you to Canada or Germany and you guys can still have the time together albeit in a different location! I'll even take a week off and spend it with all of you. That's how I feel. Now, this is also your home and they are in fact your family...so to be fair, I will let you make that decision and you determine what is in our best interest". Wife agrees wth me and assures me she'll tell my mil. She goes back online and I leave the room...45 minutes later, I went inside, the lights are out, the puter's dark, and my wife in sitting in the chair crying her eyes out. I ask what's going on, she tells me she talked with mumski and didn't believe her that she asked me. She insisted my wife asked me despite the fact. Finally my wife reminded her that she's more than capable and far more than entitled to make decisions on her own and in her own home. To that, my mil abruptly closed messenger....only to re-appear a few minutes later to tell her they just found out Popski can't make it anyway because of work, so they won't be coming over, signs off abruptly again.

Mind you. Popski is an incredible fil. I love the guy to tears. mumski had always been wonderful to me, too...but when you mesh 2 worlds together, there will be many instances things will find a way to clash.

Right now, things ae getting from bad to worst in Novo, according to her parents. Mumski was a teacher and had sinced quit to teach privately or at home instead. Apparently the pay from the system was 'less' than what she can earn teaching privately. It did for a while, until the recent economic lapse. Students came too few and far in between. Popski was being made to work more and get paid less. Supposedly because of economy. Inflation is up, prices are up, etc....

My wife is the youngest of 3 sisters. One in Canada and one in Germany. My wife is the ony one who attended and acquired a western University degree and she's still trying to earn another accreditation for another specialty course. Long story short, we stand in line to be the ones to have them. a) because they prefer our location, b) because I do like them (more so fil than mil), c) we're in the best position to do so all things considered...her sister and hubby in Canada are having a tough time (she can't get normal work because well...she wasn't overly concerned about her English before)...her sister in Germany is married to a German citizen but of Turkish nationality. Good guy and actually owns a home in Turkey. Every summer they go and stay in Turkey...in-laws had spent time there already and while they like it, and everyone seem to be really good with them - they say they're a bit uncomfortable "because everyone else speaks a language they don't understand!". Go figure....

All I asked my wife was to use this situation we have now and ask her parents to study and learn English. I have even offerred to send them whatever money necessary and get the very best means to start the language learning. This is in hopes that by the time they do get approved and get here, they would at least have the ability of understand and converse their own way around here without having to fully rely on our guidance. More importantly, any serious discussion that need to take place concerning our life and family, will be available for everyone to participate on and not to have to rely on phocking translators....

...and that doesn't matter whether a teacher in inner city Canada sees things differently, or Dr. Laura said so, or a freakin' article was written and published in Norway and thereby changing the reality of people actually living it.

[Ade]

or a freakin' article was written and published in Norway and thereby changing the reality of people actually living it.

I think you'll find there are any number of articles from all over the place....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/bilingual-pupils-do-better-in-exams-report-finds-422280.html

[Boethius]

I think you'll find there are any number of articles from all over the place....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/bilingual-pupils-do-better-in-exams-report-finds-422280.html

There's also a five year study from Cornell, in the good ol' USA

http://behavioural-psychology.suite101.com/article.cfm/bilingual_children_learn_better

GQ, why don't you learn some Russian?  Take a Rosetta stone course, learn just enough basics that you can communicate with the inlaws.

[Boethius]

Yes, he is to blame.  Each of us is responsible for our own happiness.  Yet, the wife shares culpability.

I agree she shares culpability.

Feeling like a stranger in that special, protected space called home means that the marriage is broken.   The proper step is not to spend time assigning blame but to make it better.  At this stage, the marriage is probably irretrievably broken.  So the best way to make it better is to consult with an attorney, not a therapist.  It is too late now for therapy.  Living alone is far better than living with the wrong person.
 

I disagree that this means the marriage is broken.  I believe with counselling and real communication, in the absence of abuse, profound psychological problems by one or both parties, or addiction, most marriages can be repaired.  But, if it gets to that, it's hard work to turn it around.  Many people would rather throw away the relationship than put in that work.

[Daveman]

GQ, so with the economy the way it is there, they have decided to come live with you? Who initiated this idea? Why not send some money to help them (seems far less expensive, both financially and emotionally, to support them there rather than to move them here).

I don't understand the necessity to move them in, of course these questions coming from a guy who has not been married to an FSUW.  

[BC]

From personal and multiple experiences with children learning a new language, starting school with 0, all achieved above average results in language and other studies within 1 year.

1. My son, primary language German, started in Italian school 10 years old.
2. exGF son, primary language German, started in Italian school 9 years old.
3. Daughter, primary language Russian, started in Italian school 8 years old.
4. Son, first language Russian, started in Italian kindergarten 4 years old.

Each has good if not excellent skills in at least 3 if not 4 or more languages.

I speak 3 languages daily, with basic skills in 2 more plus a smattering of RU.  English was not my first language.

When it comes to young kids and language, that should be the very least of worries.

I do admit though that with age, the ability to pick up new languages becomes difficult and requires extreme effort.  My RU should be much much better.. In fact I was not able to keep up with our 6 yr old.  He's fluent, I'm not.

[Lazarus]

.....GQ, why don't you learn some Russian?......

Yes, yes....go learn some Russian GQ so you can be a "real" man.


Laz

[Boethius]

It has nothing to do with being a "real man".  It has everything to do with being able to speak to his in laws. 

[BC]

I disagree that this means the marriage is broken.  I believe with counselling and real communication, in the absence of abuse, profound psychological problems by one or both parties, or addiction, most marriages can be repaired.  But, if it gets to that, it's hard work to turn it around.  Many people would rather throw away the relationship than put in that work.

Bothius,

Agree, and yes a huge amount of work and effort is indeed involved.  But I also think that Gator is right.. It can and does become rather overwhelming for us mortals involved.  We each have our limits that when crossed can make one quite useless to all around.  The line has to be drawn at some point or risk your own sanity.  Walking tightrope looks and probably is fun unless you do it on a daily basis.

[Boethius]

Hmm, I don't know, I think most of the time, it's about ego and intransigence.  In my observation, it is usually the wife, rather than the husband, who pulls the plug and, once she's made that decision, is more unwilling to work things out.

You know, I lived in a country where authorities tried to break my marriage, in all sorts of ways.  Far more nefarious than most dealings with in law issues.  I came from a background where no one in my family had divorced, and no matter how difficult things were, I would never divorce.  My MIL commented to me on this once she came here, how, no matter what was thrown before us, I stood by her son.   I don't post this for any reason other than to give my own personal experience on marital interference, and my view on divorce.  

[Lazarus]

It has nothing to do with being a "real man".  It has everything to do with being able to speak to his in laws.  

"Interesting" train of thought.
GQ opens his home (and wallet) to her family and HE is supposed to learn a different language to boot?  


Laz

[tim 360]

Poverty? LOL. What the heck are you talking about? That can't be because SJ just read an article that these folks are doing far better than English speaking folks...LOL. That's the new reality, Boethius.

------------------------------------------------------------

Here's one peek into one experience....

Prior to the last visit my in-laws spent with us...there were discussions involving time, activities, etc...by now my wife have had experiences with folks coming to stay with us, her 2 sisters, her parents, my folks, relatives, etc...the one distinct difference in this is, my part of the family stays with us anywhere from 7-10 days. 10 days tops. Her part of the family stays with us MINIMUM 30 days.

It's definitely taxiing to me not because I don't like any of her folks, but absence of a common language did start to wear on me a little. At the dinner able, in the car, at home, etc...every day and every night.....................

This seems so phockin' stressful GQ.  I would not have the patience--you are a better man than I Gunga Din .  Agree with Daveman--send them some money--a 30 day vacation with you will not change things for them.  Nor will they make you a happy guy.