Trip Reports General Discussion and Poll

[Misha]

If so, what is a reasonable amount of time to finish?

As it is, he has a TR hanging out there in infinity where he has already baited enough up with questions from his odd behavior. He should finish it and invite the questions or shut up about it. Turnabout is fair play.

The challenge with these "wait until I am finished requests" is that it will kill all desire to post any responses IMHO. Will most people remember which in a series of posts, perhaps running over a number of pages, they wanted to reply to a few weeks past?

[Gylden]

I have a totally new idea (think outside the box) 

For this type of case, one should post simultaneously in the sans response area and in the open forum another version.

 

[ecr844]

I have a totally new idea (think outside the box) 

For this type of case, one should post simultaneously in the sans response area and in the open forum another version.

 

It's against forum rules to do this as commented upon on page 1 or 2 by one of the 'super mods'.

[ecr844]

It's interesting that the 'talking points crowd' fail to consider the possibility the TR would have continued with regular ongoing posts in a 'timely manner' had folks been able to exercise common courtesy and be patient.

As an author I'm not responsible for the readers ability or lack there of to remember and or comment on things I may write at an any time. The readers organic and or cognitive dysfunctions are their own. They have to deal with that, not me.

[Misha]

As an author I'm not responsible for the readers ability or lack there of to remember and or comment on things I may write at an any time. The readers organic and or cognitive dysfunctions are their own. They have to deal with that, not me.

I presume that jab was aimed at the comment that I made. Keep in mind that a forum is like a conversation. To have one person talking and not accepting any interruptions will generally result in the speaker being ignored. IMHO, in forums as in normal conversations, it is a dialogue whereby people share their opinions 

[Lazarus]

"De Oppresso Liber"
Don't waste your time with this guy......he appears to be S/F U.S. Army.
A "legend" in their own minds.


Laz


Thank you for the correction Sandro43.

[ecr844]

I presume that jab was aimed at the comment that I made.

No it wasn't aimed solely at you.

First TR post: September 01, 2010, 09:26:12 PM
First interruption: September 01, 2010, 10:41:34 PM
Second interruption: September 01, 2010, 11:07:30 PM
Third interruption: September 02, 2010, 08:50:44 AM

and so on....

Hardly an inordinate amount of time between the posts in just the first few pages. Yet still some couldn't help themselves and just had to be 'heard.'

[ecr844]

"De Opresso Liber"
Don't waste your time with this guy......he appears to be S/F U.S. Army.
A "legend" in their own minds.


Laz

You couldn't be further off base. But go ahead and expose your vertical smile a little more for the membership. This way they can see you for who you really are all the more clearly.

[SANDRO43]

"De Opresso Liber"

Not that it matters much, but it's "De Oppresso Liber", i.e. Latin for From subjugated/overpowered (to) free .

[Misha]

Eric,

Is it necessary to have such a big image in your signature?

Misha

[Faux Pas]

I presume that jab was aimed at the comment that I made. Keep in mind that a forum is like a conversation. To have one person talking and not accepting any interruptions will generally result in the speaker being ignored. IMHO, in forums as in normal conversations, it is a dialogue whereby people share their opinions 

Maybe as Gator referred to earlier, think of us all sitting around a table having a drink. I would add, there's a dozen of us and you have everyone's attention while telling your story. Tell the story or step aside for better conversation 

[Boethius]

If someone can't handle having something as innocuous as a trip report commented on (and can, after all, ignore the comments), how is he going to ever handle marriage?

[Lazarus]

If someone can't handle having something as innocuous as a trip report commented on (and can, after all, ignore the comments), how is he going to ever handle marriage?

"Trollish" behavior by ecr844, Boethius.
What confuses me is why he has been hanging around RWD for 5 years.

BTW......

[Boethius]

I haven't been here five years.  And no, it isn't trollish.  In the grand scheme of things, a few comments here or there are not a big deal.

[Lazarus]

I haven't been here five years.  And no, it isn't trollish.  In the grand scheme of things, a few comments here or there are not a big deal.

Sorry Boethius , I was talking about ecr844's behavior.

Laz

[2tallbill]

I personally think that TR's are one of the most interesting and informative
part of the forum. It's obvious that the quantity of trip reports we get to read 
are less and less every year.

Imagine the difficulty of having the whole peanut gallery microanalyses of your
every post. It is really really difficult to write a report in real time, and often you
are days behind the report itself and you have some know-it-all telling you what
you should do with lady X or how you should do things totally different than your personality would dictate.

I think that TRs should be better protected by the mods with some rules / guidelines
to keep it from becoming a free for all.

I didn't read all the posts (or even most of them) but the day is coming where a trip
report is as follows.

"I went to Ufa, now I'm back !!"

It seems obvious that a number of members can't keep their opinions to themselves
about a guys story as it's unfolding and the mods / rules / or something needs to be
done about it .

just my dva kopecks,

Bill

[SMS60]

I think that TRs should be better protected by the mods with some rules / guidelines
to keep it from becoming a free for all.

What do you think about the no response section?

[GQBlues]

No it wasn't aimed solely at you.

First TR post: September 01, 2010, 09:26:12 PM
First interruption: September 01, 2010, 10:41:34 PM -....-

Yet still some couldn't help themselves and just had to be 'heard.'

Ok, I admit to be just a tad bit curious to find out who the heck was the scoundrel ( ) that started this whole mess. So I went back to check who Mr First Interruption was.....

   Aeeerrrrrrhhhhmmmmmm....I see!

 

Hello Gylden!!! How've you been?

[LEGAL]

"Trollish" behavior by ecr844, Boethius.
What confuses me is why he has been hanging around RWD for 5 years.

Most definitely not trollish behavior and speaking of trollish behavior your posting style looks very familiar  

[Daveman]

Ok, I admit to be just a tad bit curious to find out who the heck was the scoundrel
....

Hello Gylden!!! How've you been?

LoL!

Boil that Gylden Boil that Gylden, Beeslenut Oil! Beeslenut Oil!

Just as a reminder -- about criticism -- heck, if everyone here who has been criticized ran off in a hissy fit, we'd have very few members, definitely zero moderators, and not even an Admin... ecr844 is still hanging right here in the discussion.  

2tallbill makes an excellent potential point. Is it a fact that the number of TR's has significantly decreased over the years?  I honestly don't know, but something I will investigate. The replies (even in the past) have rarely been completely innocuous, but it seems that currently posted TR's (within the last two years or so) have often devolved into mayhem and in some cases, I'd say even character assassination.  Sometimes, members of other forums swarm in to wreak havoc (eh Bill?)

Very few (um shall we say zero?) ever complain about the interruptions of the "attaboys", or "great report, more more" kind of posts, so the debate is about critical posts.  It has been suggested that the moderators should step in more often and with a tougher wielding of the sword...

So, allow me to re-emphasize the following:
-Mods don't make the rules (nor should they)
-There is no rule against criticism (even if not so constructive) anywhere on the forum.
-There is no rule against interrupting a TR.
-There is no rule that states an Author of a TR can control the content or timing of responses (unless posted in the Sans Response section)
-One of the tenets of this forum is that of "self moderation", which includes the members stepping up to assist in calling a foul (which, of course in the TR section almost always involves a furthering of the spiral).

Is there room for improvement within the current framework? If so, what, exactly, do you think it would be? (asking for something akin to a bulleted list, rather laconic in formation for ease of processing the actual points)





 

[Vaughn]

What confuses me is why he has been hanging around RWD for 5 years.

What confuses me is how a member with all of 56 posts can credibly judge and convict another - when
he's in fact avoided revealing even a shred of his own experience and credentials...

Don't waste your time with this guy......he appears to be S/F U.S. Army.

Lazarus, what does appearance of affiliation have to do with the subject matter ? Be honest. Try very hard
to ditch the know-it-all style of delivery - then visit the Introduction Section - and tell all of us how you've
earned your stripes and the right to criticize. Personally - I'd like to know who you really are before I could
assign an ounce of credibility to your, for the most part, short and acidic jabs.

[LEGAL]

LoL!
2tallbill makes an excellent potential point. Is it a fact that the number of TR's has significantly decreased over the years?  I honestly don't know, but something I will investigate. The replies (even in the past) have rarely been completely innocuous, but it seems that currently posted TR's (within the last two years or so) have often devolved into mayhem and in some cases, I'd say even character assassination.  Sometimes, members of other forums swarm in to wreak havoc (eh Bill?)

Daveman I agree with you bill and Gator. I have spoke to many members over the past five years and the consensus is its not worth it do a TR do to the hostile responses and character assassinations.  I know bill and Ecr they are both good people on and off the board. It is very sad that good members come and are sarcastically attacked when they share their experiences. It cost nothing to be nice! Flame away  

[Admin]

Daveman I agree with you bill and Gator. I have spoke to many members over the past five years and the consensus is its not worth it do a TR do to the hostile responses and character assassinations.  I know bill and Ecr they are both good people on and off the board. It is very sad that good members come and are sarcastically attacked when they share their experiences. It cost nothing to be nice! Flame away 

Robert - you've talked to anyone who will give you their phone number - or call yours, and I do not believe you represent a "consensus" of opinion at RWD.

Speaking to someone on the phone does not make them any more credible than anyone else. I've had any number of knumbnuts call me, or try to call me, on the phone. In fact, I discourage the exchange of real life contact information (including telephone numbers) unless our members feel REALLY comfortable with the other person. Fact of the matter, there are a bunch of internet crazies, and it is just as well that we keep things at a distance for some time.

On topic - your analysis of the dynamics is overly simplistic. This topic that Daveman initiated has demonstrated a number of those dynamics - and they range from the fact that a 'discussion' forum implies a relatively active exchange and the reason we see almost zero traffic in our blogs is that people want to be where the action is - and it is in the open forums. On the other end of the spectrum is the request for courtesy and respect toward the member who contributes a TR and when one explicitly asks for the 'space' to complete a TR without a lot of interaction. As I wrote earlier, contributing a TR is an act of generosity and affords tremendous learning opportunities for all our members. To that extent, at least, I promote the notion of courtesy and honoring the OP's requests. Having said that, some of the other dynamics include that ecr has acted a bit on the acerbic side which is unlikely to win him any sympathy - not that he is asking for any - he makes it clear he is not. And the other unusual dynamic is the fact the TR was, apparently, posted elsewhere and has been idle for some time - a fact not lost on some of our members who question the delays in conclusion.

In sum, this is a VERY useful exchange of ideas and priorities and should enable us to create an environment more conducive to the future posting of member's TRs.

- Dan

[Gator]

First TR post: September 01, 2010, 09:26:12 PM
First interruption: September 01, 2010, 10:41:34 PM
Second interruption: September 01, 2010, 11:07:30 PM
Third interruption: September 02, 2010, 08:50:44 AM

Eric,

I would not classify these as "interruptions."

First, you were publishing your posts at a furious pace:
09:26 pm
09:28
09:33
09:35
09:39
09:41
09:45
09:53
09:54
etc.

By the time Glyden posted, your material had covered nearly a whole page. 

And what was the substance of his "interruption" at 10:41?

Interesting TR, like the writting style, but I can't see your pics, can anyone see them?

Next came Facetrock at 11:07.

Very good report but I cant see the pics either.

Surely you don't consider these as interruptions. 

AJ was the first to write an opinion.  That was the next morning at 8:50 am, your “third interruption.” 

Thanks for the TR    …. And sorry it did not work out, you certainly seem to have went "all in"
and must have had some decent prior correspondence to be that patient…..Looking forward to hearing  how the rest of your trip went!! hopefully well!

AJ is one of the classiest and most experienced members at RWD.  Although he is a sports celebrity (sort of), it has not gone to his head.   He is always trying to help people.  AJ’s post did express opinions, yet IMO his post certainly adheres to your request in your OP:

I welcome constructive criticism, and observations, opinions, etc... Any thought you have of flaming or anything of that vein, please don't waste your time or mine… I ask the peanut gallery to wait until the TR is complete before pitching in with chiding

In fact, you answered AJ as follows:

Thanks, for the kind words and I'll expand on some of your points and explain a little in a coming update.

That is a great answer.

The flaming and chiding came with SeriouslyJaded and SMS60, neither of whom has ever written a trip report or disclosed much of anything about their experience with RW.   And now Lazarus in this thread has jumped in for reason I can not fathom.  RWD is not a political rally where hecklers are eventually ushered away, yet you should have told them to fock off.       

Eduard sidetracked you briefly, yet you had mentioned him in your report so why would you expect him to remain silent.  A couple of readers were starting a VO vs. VM trip, yet you stopped that.  You were doing fine!

I am not sure what you expected.  Did you want to publish your trip report without any posts other than your own?  If so, you should have gone in the sans report forum, which I find sterile.

In 2002 I wrote a report about my 30-day WMVM trip.  I posted it at RWG, which was less interruptive than RWD (RWG is defunct partly because it did not have the spirited and lively discussion of RWD).  I got so few comments while writing it that I wondered if anybody was reading it.  Is that what you want, or do you appreciate the interaction with informed men sharing your interest in RW? 

Unless a writer is way off base, the vast majority of the readers will appreciate the report.  That was your case, and many appreciated your candor and honesty.  Only a couple of people will heckle you.  Why they do it, I don't know.

So what is your objective and plan for finishing your interesting trip report?

[LEGAL]

Robert - you've talked to anyone who will give you their phone number - or call yours, and I do not believe you represent a "consensus" of opinion at RWD.
- Dan

First off that's not true I have refused to talk to several members. Dan I never stated that I represent  "consensus" of opinion at RWD. Actually Dan their are many members I would have nothing to do with off the board. I will never understand why you are so cruel.