President opens Kharkov new airport

[sjg-uk]

http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro2012/news/newsid=1520657.html

[kievstar]

They still have a bunch of work to do on the runway but it was nice.  I was just in Kharkov.  They brought us through old terminal area unfortunately. 

The policeman who takes (or tries) money has a lot more territory to cover now.  People who have been through the airport numerous times now what I am talking about. 

[XMan]

I've only been through Kharkov airport once. 

I am curious.
What are you talking about?

[Mila]

Yes, our new airport looks nice, but i agree with Kievstar, there are many things to finish. They handle flights to Kiev and from Kiev only, but soon there will be much more flights around Ukraine and to many capital cities of Europe. At least, foreigners won't be shocked any more i hope as old building doesn't even have a toilet

Regarding policeman who always takes money from foreigners, that is from most of my clients, it is a shame and i do hope it will be changed. I am tired of fighting with him and, it didn't help anyways. No, once it helped as i started yelling at him and he had no choice. He just let my client go, but he was soooooo mad! I don't care about him, i just want it to be fair. As people like him, leave very bad impressions of our country and our people in general.   

[kievstar]

To keep from paying bribe money to the one policeman a couple tips:

Make sure your immigration card has Kharkov listed as your destination.  If not, it is going to be a long battle.  He starts with the immigration paper to make sure you listed Kharkov on your travels. 

Another tip is speak Spanish and say you no understand him.  Spend a long time.  He will let you go as he does not like to see the other toursits escape while he wastes to much time with you.

Third is tell him you work for the USA embassy.  That has always worked for me.  I post this now as I have a 4th tip that is better which I now use but you need to marry someone from Kharkov who has powerful relatives. 

They usually get you when you leave Kharkov in the morning.  When you get to Kiev it is funny to compare how much each foregin man paid as you wait for baggage.  Ranges from some coins or nothing to $100 usd.  I have never paid anything but I rarely flyout of Kharkov (only into) as taxi is only $110 usd from Kharkov to Kiev. 

[ML]

I flew into Kharkiv in May and back out again in a month or so.

Never encountered such a 'policeman' as Mila and Kievstar talk about.

Has anyone else encountered such in the past several months?

[kievstar]

manlooking, go look on the other board the guy who just did a trip report commented on it.

What time of day did you fly out also how many foreigners were on your plane roughly?

[ML]

manlooking, go look on the other board the guy who just did a trip report commented on it.

What time of day did you fly out also how many foreigners were on your plane roughly?

I don't know what other board you are talking about.  Why  don't you just tell  us what he said?

Only one international  flight out daily to Vienna and I was on it.  2:30 PM as I recall.
Seemed like a lot of foreigners on  that flight as I talked to quite a few who spoke English from UK, Austria, Netherlands, Germany, etc.

[kievstar]

Not allowed to link other board I believe.

If you read above I have only seen the policeman work the morning flight to Kiev.  He tends to monitor the taxi cabs later in the day to get his cut.  Also the daily cargo flight he goes over there as well.    Daily cargo flight is a huge money maker as I am sure he gets a cut. 

Flying to Vienna probably never going to see him.  He is actually harmless if you paperwork is correct and you are not afraid of police.  To many men put Kiev on the paperwork and than later in trip flyout of Kharkov. 

He knows in the morning many foreign man fly from Kharkov to Kiev and have short window to get on morning flight out of Kiev.  The other flights during the day just not worth his time unless his other money makers are slow.  The ladies working for the airline at the check-in counter are also involved and tip him off on people to check. 

He likes to talk about George Bush if you know enough Russian a funny guy to talk to.  The longer you talk he gets frustrated as he knows several foreign men will go by as he wastes his time with you. 

Last month my wife (I was not with her) laid into him.  One of her relatives came to pick her up at airport and this policeman was trying to get some money from her relative.  My relative told me my wife b..tched him out in front of the taxi drivers than she called her uncle who is over the entire Kharkov region and this police man had to make a special visit to see him.  Than she b..tched out her relative for letting a policeman take advantage of him.  I guess that is what happens after a 28 hour flight from USA to Kharkov.  She was a complete angel 3 days later when i came. 

[Mila]

Maybe it is a coincidence, but every time i go to see my clients off, this policeman is here. I've noticed, he bribes only foreigners, first, because he sees they look little different, second, he hears English language and then does his job. If he is not sure foreigner or not, he starts a conversation to see what language you speak. I've noticed it doesn't matter if your immigration card is filled in a correct way or not, he still will tell you the reasons to bribe for money. Then, most people just want to get rid of him and may be little frustrated and pay. But, i always tell my clients, pretend you speak Spanish or French and he will not be able to talk to you, or just tell him you don't understand in different language, but not English.   

[GoodOlBoy]

Another tip is speak Spanish and say you no understand him....

May I also suggest some Pig Latin? 
IMHO, something like this would be an appropriate response to an FSU shakedown artist: "Uckfay offway ackassjay".  :evil:

GOB

[facetrock]

  I had a guard in Dnep I had to bribe. Twenty dollars later, a slap on the back and a handshake that meant we were friends for life and I was on my way.

[Faux Pas]

  I had a guard in Dnep I had to bribe. Twenty dollars later, a slap on the back and a handshake that meant we were friends for life and I was on my way.

Where was the guard and have you ever ran into him again?

[ML]

Maybe it is a coincidence, but every time i go to see my clients off, this policeman is here. I've noticed, he bribes only foreigners, first, because he sees they look little different, second, he hears English language and then does his job. If he is not sure foreigner or not, he starts a conversation to see what language you speak. I've noticed it doesn't matter if your immigration card is filled in a correct way or not, he still will tell you the reasons to bribe for money. Then, most people just want to get rid of him and may be little frustrated and pay. But, i always tell my clients, pretend you speak Spanish or French and he will not be able to talk to you, or just tell him you don't understand in different language, but not English.   

So as I understand it, this man is not a part of the official passport/immigration crew, but rather a city policeman; is that correct?

And he works the car arrival area outside the entrance to the airport building; yes?

Mila, if you are with your clients . . . why don't you intervene on their behalf?
How can this continue on for months (or years?)
Can't you report him to higher up authorities in Kharkiv?

And I presume if he asks to see your immigration card, then he is going to ask to see the passport also.  And once he sees the USA passport . . . then he is OK with you speaking French or Spanish?

[Brianinaz]

That's funny this guy is developing an internatial reputation. I've run into him twice. Both time the morning flight to Kiev. He works just past the security check point. The first time my wife had already left the area. On the way into the country you have to fill out that paper with the address of where you will be staying in Ukraine. I didn't have the address of the apartment we rented so I just made something up. He asked for that form and we went into this little closet they use to ask questions. After looking at the address said something like "This is not a good address". After closing the door on the closet he say's in a very friendly voice "Mr. Brian let me help you please" I forget what I replied but he said the same thing over a couple of times. It was like a comedy skit. I hard time not laughing. Although I will say if it had been my first trip and I didn't know how things work there I'd have been pretty darn uncomfortable. Anyway I pulled 10 or 20 UAH from my pocket and gave it to him. Big smile and shook my hand and wished me  a good trip. I told my wife the story and we had a couple of laughs over the "Mr. Brian let me help you please". The way he said it with the accent and all was great. It became a bit of an ongoing joke for us.

Anyway on my next visit (waiting for the visa) at a family get together the conversation touched on these petty bribes and Natalia had me retell the story and everyone got a good laugh out of the "Mr. Brian let me help you please" and my attempt at a Russian accent. On the way out at the airport guess who's there. This time Natalia waited to see I got through ok. It looked like I did and she had just turned and started to walk away when my friend came up to me and asked for my papers. I called to her and when she turned I said it's Mr Brian. She lit into him Oh my God. She's a lawyer there and I don't know what she said but he looked like he was going to pee himself. He just turned and walked away.

I'm with kiestar, we don't fly out of Kharkov any more. The aircraft scare the crap out of me and the service is unreliable particularly in the winter. Two years ago after christmas we made it almost to Kiev and they turned around and went back to Kharov. We missed the flight out of Kiev which turned into a huge pain in the butt. The guy who owns the limo company we used for our wedding will make the drive to KBP in a late model mercedes for $125, at least the last time I was there. 

[ML]

I've run into him twice. Both time the morning flight to Kiev. He works just past the security check point. The first time my wife had already left the area.

Anyway on my next visit . . . On the way out at the airport guess who's there. This time Natalia waited to see I got through ok. It looked like I did and she had just turned and started to walk away when my friend came up to me and asked for my papers. I called to her and when she turned I said it's Mr Brian. She lit into him Oh my God. She's a lawyer there and I don't know what she said but he looked like he was going to pee himself. He just turned and walked away.

Hate to be a spoil sport here, but this is a different story than told by Mila and others.  In their version, the man works the car arrival area before coming into the terminal.

At Kharkiv airport departure (international that is) you first present your ticket and baggage to airline people, next the baggage and you go through the X-ray machines, and next you go through passport control.  At this point, there will be no people there (except for workers) who are not passengers.  So I am perplexed how a wife or anyone could appear there and be of any help.  These non-passengers won't get by the airline ticket takers, let alone subsequent the security checkpoint.

'Just past the security checkpoint' as you say is the passport control area.  That is where they officially do check your passport and the second half of the tear off immigration control sheet.  These guys are sitting behind a counter.  They don't just walk up to you.

So I am still in the dark here.  Not that I don't believe we can all experience problems; just these stories don't pan out relative to the sequences, etc.

[oldernotwiser]

ManLooking

I had an experience similar to Brianinaz at the Kharkov airport.  It was just past the baggage scanning equipment.  There was no passport control, local flight to Kiev.  He very pleasantly helped me out too   I have no problem with both Braininaz or Mila's stories.  Think they are probably talking about the same guy.

[Mila]

Manlooking, i mentioned before that i always go with my clients to the registration area, even though it is not allowed and i do help them to avoid the policeman, and i fight with him all the time. Yes, there were times when i could do nothing, but most of the time my presence and interference helped. I told the airport authorities about that already, but it is so corrupted that it didn't help, as i am sure they share the money. Right now i can't cope with that, but i am sure there is a way out and i have it in mind, so will do my best to solve this issue in the nearest future. By the way, if one of you guys write or call to the main police department of Ukraine and tell the situation, it will be stopped. Please, think about that as it may really help!

[kievstar]

manlooking brianinaz recall is the same as mine and Mila.  You flew international from Kharkov and not domestic so maybe your trying to compare different areas of the airport.  No one said he works the car arrival area in the morning. 

This policeman works in the morning to check your papers just like brianinaz says (however he does not need to check your papers just doing it to get money and most foreign men will not get checked as he can only hit maybe 5 of them and the women at the check-in counter try to judge which foreign men look like they have money and tell him which ones to check).  You get checked after you go through the security metal checker however it is such a small airport (at least old terminal) that family members can help you out as needed as the check-in counter is right next to the security check and policeman closet. Its a mess flying domestic in old terminal as it is a very small area.

Mila, will not be solved by calling police department.  This guy works for someone else who is very connected.  He did meet with my wife's uncle and paid a good size fee for bothering family.   He is going to change his behavior during Euro 2012 as he works under the man who owns the local football stadium and has interest in many of the hotels. 


GOB nice to see you back. 

[ML]

No one said he works the car arrival area in the morning. 

Yes, I see upon the rereading; but you did say this earlier, so you see where I got the taxi idea from.

Kievstar:  "If you read above I have only seen the policeman work the morning flight to Kiev.  He tends to monitor the taxi cabs later in the day to get his cut.

Last month my wife (I was not with her) laid into him.  One of her relatives came to pick her up at airport and this policeman was trying to get some money from her relative.  My relative told me my wife b..tched him out in front of the taxi drivers . . "

So then when Mila gave her story, I assumed you were both talking about the man working the taxi area.

OK, I now understand that this policeman works the domestic departure area in the morning after going through security.  And I understand that non passengers can be in that area or nearby enough to talk across into that area.  This must be one of the few such airports in world where nonpassengers can be past the security control booth.

Also strange because on a domestic flight within Ukraine there is absolutely no need to even talk about the immigration card since you are neither entering nor leaving the country.

But I understand that this policeman can ask to see such card even though it makes no sense . . . because I understand many things make no sense in FSU.

[Brianinaz]

Manlooking

Others above have pretty much answered your questions. The departure area for the HRK to KBP domestic flight is out the door of the "main" terminal, across a small court yard. Just inside the entrance door is the ticket/bagage checking counter to the left and after that to the right is the security check for baggage and passengers. After you go through security you go back to the left and in the direction of the ticketing counter. There's a good 20-30 ft where people in the area of that ticketing counter before security can see people after they go through security as they are walking to the baggage drop off and waiting areas. This is where I ran into this fellow on the two occasions I mentioned. I hope that helps to give you a feel for the way things are laid out.

Brian

[Jack]

Here is my experience with our friendly Kharkov policeman, plus a new twist that happened just the other day.

First, if we are in the right, if we have, and when I say we I mean myself and clients, if we have all our proper documents to hell with this cop. And we actually screw with him. He get's NOTHING from us when we know were in the right.

Now this friendly policeman recognizes our support staff and for the past few years he hasn't said a single word to any of us. Prior to this time frame when we were in the right we would argue with him and refuse to pay a single kopek.  But if we were in the wrong, if one of us did not have our immigration paper, we did pay the guy about $20.  It has only happened twice with probably over a hundred clients where we had lost our immigration card and the local airport policeman asked to check our documents. I think we have had more than a few guys who have lost their immigration card but only two were stopped who had lost them.  If you lose your immigration card it is the chance you take.  If you have lost it, and are questioned, pay up.  But most guys do have their immigration card, it is filled out properly and if they are stopped and detained about something, a shakedown is in the process, we simply refuse to go along with his game.

Before I get into what just happened a few days ago that might be of interest to some of you let me tell you one thing that happened not to long ago.

The immigration form for those who do not know is a single piece of paper about 4 inches wide, maybe 5.5 inches long.  The sizes of this form have changed over the last decade but they have been close to this size. The form asked the same information twice, you fill out your name, passport number, reason of visit, means (flight number) of arrival, where you will stay.  Not once but twice.  The immigration offer stamps both sides of this form, tears it in two, they keep one copy, give you the second copy.   In Kiev this second copy is just as important as your passport, don't lose it, but were talking Kharkov here.

Now a few months ago when filling out this form one man wrote where he was staying on one of the two areas but he did not put where he was staying on the second part. And of course this was the part the immigration control offer gave back to the guy.  When leaving the airport he was asked for documents, he showed his passport and immigration form, those are the documents these guys are asking about when you are asked for "your documents".  The officer see's he did not list the location where he would be staying and say's "we have a problem".  The officer takes him to a room and tell's him this is a problem and yadda yadda and ask's him how much money he has. The guy has 200 grivnas on him.  This officer takes all 200 grivnas and let's him go.

Often guys will ask what address do they put on there immigration form.  For all you guys out there traveling to Ukraine, how many of you know the address of your flat.  Go ahead, raise your hands.  Ahh, I see only a few of you know the address you will be staying, looks as though 95% of you have no idea.  What to do?  It's real simple.

If you are landing into Kiev always put Hotel Rus.  I do not care if you are landing into Kiev and going to Odessa, or Lviv or Crimea.  Always put Hotel Rus. And make sure to put it on both sides of the form.   When ever you guys land into Kharkov always put Hotel Kharkov, or Hotel Mir, does not matter but for the sake of being easy to remember, we always put Hotel Kharkov.  I do not care if you are staying in a flat or not, unless you know your flats address, and by a raising of everyone's hand that was only 5%, put Hotel Kharkov for Kharkov entry, put Hotel Rus for Kiev entry.   

Ok now something interesting that happened last week.  We had one guy, who happens to be a member here on RWD, he may or may not elect to identify himself, who flew into Kharkov from Vienna.   He filled out his immigration card and gave it to the lady at immigration/passport control.  The lady stamped his passport and gave the passport back AND his immigration card but without being stamped.  He gave the immigration card back to her, told her it needed to be stamped. She shoved it back to him, indicating it did not need to be stamped.  He did not argue with her after she shoved it back to him.

We talked about this, why did she do that?  Of course the immigration form needs to be stamped, both sides and they must keep a copy. And this officer did neither. Why?

We think that they (immigration control/friendly policeman) assumed this man would also be leaving from Kharkov and upon his departure, cha-ching, the ole cash register would be ringing with this guy. He would have to pay some fee for not having his immigration card stamped.  But this man will be departing from Kiev.  On my last 20 departures from Kiev's airport no one has asked to see my immigration control paper. In fact since Ukraine has gone visa free no one has asked to see my immigration form at Kiev airport.  Yes, our late night working friendly Kiev police will ask for such but this man will arrive into Kiev in the morning and will catch a mid day flight out of Kiev. No one will be asking to see his immigration card in Kiev.

So from this little incident I would say to any of you guys flying directly into Kharkov to be aware of this and do not leave the immigration control booth unless the official stamps your immigration card.

[ML]

Manlooking

Others above have pretty much answered your questions. The departure area for the HRK to KBP domestic flight is out the door of the "main" terminal, across a small court yard. Just inside the entrance door is the ticket/bagage checking counter to the left and after that to the right is the security check for baggage and passengers. After you go through security you go back to the left and in the direction of the ticketing counter. There's a good 20-30 ft where people in the area of that ticketing counter before security can see people after they go through security as they are walking to the baggage drop off and waiting areas. This is where I ran into this fellow on the two occasions I mentioned. I hope that helps to give you a feel for the way things are laid out.

Brian

OK, thanks much for your good details.  Guess I have just been lucky by traveling to and from HRK from VIE.

[ML]

Jack, good idea about putting down hotel name on the form even when not staying there.  I always know my apartment number or such for a local friend and put it on the form.  But it takes longer to put in a street name and usually they don't fit anyway, plus you have to dig out some papers to find the street name.

But  my experience differs significantly from yours regarding immigration paper at KBP.  I have been in and out of there probably 10 times in past 6 years and I ALWAYS have to show that paper when departing.

I am now getting worried about making sure I get the stamp when going through HRK (or anywhere), and I don't need one more thing to be paranoid about!!  :-)

I remember after Yushenko became president, it seemed like a lot of this petty crap and shakedowns got cleaned up.  Now it seems to be creeping back in again.  There was posted once a phone number in Kyiv that you could call to report such crap, but I never had  to use it and have lost it now.  Wonder if it does any good.

[Jack]

But  my experience differs significantly from yours regarding immigration paper at KBP.  I have been in and out of there probably 10 times in past 6 years and I ALWAYS have to show that paper when departing.

ManLooking  I'll make a new thread about this so not to derail the Kharkov topic.