manny's thread

[Chelseaboy]

Jack,Manny,Eduard.
 
                           As a relative newcomer to these forums,and someone who has yet to venture into the minefield of actually flying to the FSU and attempting to meet a prospective future wife there,this thread is all a bit sad.
I'm aware of all the pitfalls of dealing with the big internet marriage agencies,and their FSU local marriage agency affiliates and women.
So i, and no doubt other newbies,look to guys like you,who are also involved in the business,but outside of the aforementioned sharks,to give some credibility to the whole industry.
As someone who may well want to use the services of one or more of you in the future,i can say you do yourselves no favours with all this sniping at each other.

[Manny]

I agree with you CB, however, I didn't start this. I am on this topic to defend myself. If I didn't, you might also draw a conclusion from my silence.

[Vinnvinny]

Prior to that, back in 2008, when our book The Russian Bride Guide was released, Jack -- along with others in the industry -- got a preview copy mailed to him free of charge. He was invited to review it and declined. The reason for that I later learned is he didn't like my overview of the mechanics of tours and socials and why, in my opinion, they are not an ideal venue to meet a wife at.

*I dunno about you folks, but if I were a single bloke running sex tours socials in Ukraine, I hope could find better things to do than spend every visit, including New Years Day, causing trouble on the internet.

I dunno about those folk either but I know about me, what I hear and what I see.

If you stated in your book that tours like’s Jack’s are nothing more than sex tours then I can see why he didn’t like what you had written. Not only is it factually incorrect, there also appears to be no substance whatsoever to support your opinion.

Unlike you, I have been on both an AFA tour and 2 of Jack’s. At no time did I ever meet any guy who had travelled to the Ukraine with the sole intention of having sex. Sure, one or two of the 40 guys I was with on the AFA tour ‘might’ have thought this, it certainly wasn’t obvious. Of the 15 to 20 guys I have met whilst with Jack then I can guarantee you beyond any reasonable doubt that none had travelled to Ukraine for sex, all had travelled with the hope of meeting a potential wife.

As I have travelled to Ukraine 30+ times you will know already that in your mind you class me a sex tourist and have been repeatedly blind to the reasoning behind this. During these visits then I have met many WM and I can tell you, the ones that choose to go with Jack are by far a higher calibre and substantially more resolute in their search than the other men I have encountered. Your sex tour jibe is an insult to me and those guys.

Perhaps at this juncture you could tell us how many tours you have been on and how many times you have visited Ukraine? If, as I suspect, the answer to both questions is a big fat ‘0’ then perhaps you could point us in the direction as to where,  how and why your opinion was gained?

[Admin]

Gees, you guys are such a fun bunch here on RWD. When I joined the first time 2.5 years ago, no one knew me and I was called a liar, a scammer and was constantly harassed and finally banned (unfairly I might add). Several RWD members even left the forum to show their support for me at the time. Now I haven't been here for a month and I get harassed by Faux Pas, jack and GQ wants to put me in jail for alleged IMBRA violation and to leave my 15 months old and 4 year old babies and wife to starve. KenC already jumped in on the "action" but I didn't respond.
It doesn't matter to you guys that I'm one of the very few SPs who has nothing but good and positive said about him by people who actually used his services. You just seem to enjoy tearing me down while bullies like jack enjoy soft glove treatment from the management.
If I'm not welcome on this forum, please just say so and I'll remove myself from here. It's just not worth it for me to spend hours every day engaging in these battles. I've got work to do and a family to support, I don't need this crap. Just say the word.

Eduard,

Then (your earlier participation at RWD), as now, you had the distinct opportunity to respond constructively to the questions and challenges that ALL Commercial Members face at RWD. In fact, I distinctly recall in the previous exchanges offering you several opportunities to find a 'success path' that would have made you look rational and measured and, dare I say it - professional. You chose a different path then.

Several consistencies appear in your pattern of behavior - then and now. One is that you are, as Gator described it, not an analytical person, but rather a creative and intuitive person. If you were more analytical, you might have noticed that I provided you a 'plug' yesterday for your business model. If you were more analytical, you might be more circumspect about making statements you cannot substantiate - such as your assertion that; "jack enjoy soft glove treatment from the management," which is pure hogwash. A more analytical person is likely to be MUCH more instrospective and would consider the role they played in any negative outcomes - but I have come to realize that is not you Eduard.

Now, I recognize that you are never going to be the 'analytical' type and some of the things just pointed out are NEVER going to become your forte. I can live with that. What triggers a nerve in me that I feel COMPELLED to respond to is your whiny never-ending victim BS.

Look - either get your big boy pants on and play on the varsity squad - or get the he!! off the field of play!

Manny, as much as anyone, has more to complain about than you do - and yet, instead of complaining he is offering his perspective and - to some extent anyway - there remains the possibility that Manny and Jack (after they finish with this dust-up) might be able to come to some kind of 'meeting of the minds' if grudgingly.

OK so now I will call on the Mods and Daveman to pick up here as I am CLEARLY not objective. For the record Eduard - your business model has merit for some - I recognize that. Your personality style and character appeals to some - I recognize that. Your strengths of character and intuitive nature has merit and some folks will find your character appealing - I recognize that. I might even like you if we met in real life - Gator seems to think so. I respect and appreciate your sense of responsibility to your clients - to your wife and to your children. All strong qualities that are worthy of respect - and I do.

With all that said - your whininess makes me want to choke the living crud out of you.

Daveman (et al) - it's all yours.

- Dan

[Daveman]

And the thot plickens!

Okay, so to summarize thus far..

Jack:
Manny has purportedly included a photo of Jack's g/f in his book, and the discussion of tours in the book could possibly have inferred primary goal of sex tourism.
Ed called him ignorant and purportedly claimed to call or never call, or translate calls and may or may not be in violation of IMBRA thus potentially going to prison and leaving his children starving.

Manny: basically, Jack's a repeat offender assoholic who wrote a negatively slanted Amazon Book Review without actually reading the book and who will owe him $50,000

Ed: The world is out to get me! RUN!  


Does that about sum it up? or are there missing points that could be bulleted concisely?

[tim 360]

Gees, you guys are such a fun bunch here on RWD. When I joined the first time 2.5 years ago, no one knew me and I was called a liar, a scammer and was constantly harassed and finally banned (unfairly I might add). Several RWD members even left the forum to show their support for me at the time. Now I haven't been here for a month and I get harassed by Faux Pas, jack and GQ wants to put me in jail for alleged IMBRA violation and to leave my 15 months old and 4 year old babies and wife to starve. KenC already jumped in on the "action" but I didn't respond.
It doesn't matter to you guys that I'm one of the very few SPs who has nothing but good and positive said about him by people who actually used his services. You just seem to enjoy tearing me down while bullies like jack enjoy soft glove treatment from the management.
If I'm not welcome on this forum, please just say so and I'll remove myself from here. It's just not worth it for me to spend hours every day engaging in these battles. I've got work to do and a family to support, I don't need this crap. Just say the word.

Please Eddie dial down on the drama and whining will ya.  What a tearjerker you posted...pathetic.  GQ doesn't wanna put you in jail.  Faux could care less about you and KenC ain't trying to jump you.  And nobody is trying to starve you and your kids.  You post your opinions and others may disagree with your opinions--thats it.  Your opinions are your opinions--not theirs.

[Eduard]

I agree with you CB, however, I didn't start this. I am on this topic to defend myself. If I didn't, you might also draw a conclusion from my silence.

+1

[Manny]

And the thot plickens!

Okay, so to summarize thus far..

Jack:
Manny has purportedly included a photo of Jack's g/f in his book, and the discussion of tours in the book could possibly have inferred primary goal of sex tourism.
Ed called him ignorant and purportedly claimed to call or never call, or translate calls and may or may not be in violation of IMBRA thus potentially going to prison and leaving his children starving.

Manny: basically, Jack's a repeat offender assoholic who wrote a negatively slanted Amazon Book Review without actually reading the book and who will owe him $50,000

Ed: The world is out to get me! RUN! 


Does that about sum it up? or are there missing points that could be bulleted concisely?

I am glad you have caught up Dave.

If Ed goes to Terre Haute for his heinous IMBRA crimes, put me in for $100 for the "feed Ed's kids" fund. Jack, of course, will be living under a bridge in Ukraine by then, burning his copy of our book to keep warm, as he just lost fifty big ones, not to mention his "good standing" in the state of Texas.

In the next episode folks, Ed will be dragged away in chains by the cops whilst screaming, "Its all Braggs fault", Jack will post a thirty paragraph, alcohol-fuelled diatribe, at 4am from Ukraine, peppered with a dozen selectively edited quotes and huge paragraph spaces, calling me a "scumbag" or a "wanker" again. Vinny will tell everyone that Jacks tours are ideal to find a wife and he has just booked his 31st trip as a single guy, a few passing newbies will wonder what the hell all these "commercial" guys are bitching about and Dan will make the coffee. Stay tuned......

[Daveman]

+1

Ed, as you should know, I really have nothing at all against you. I actually kinda like your online persona and we'd probably get along splendidly (as we're both neurotic Pisceans). You seem sincerely helpful, care about your clients, etc.  Don't worry, we won't actually let Dan strangle the crud out of you.  I personally think you should just bow out of this thread gracefully at this time.  Sometimes the best defense actually *is* to just keep silent and wander off to the bar and tip a few...

[GQBlues]

LOL I know this is a stretch, but.....

If given the thought, considering the state of the MOB these days and age...these trio stand to make more of what they individually offer - together (less the silly video), than banter amongst one another...

"for united we stand, divided we fall" type of Sphinxie-like theme...

Sort of a one-fee-full-serviced smorgasbord-type of dating service....

[Eduard]

Eduard,

Then (your earlier participation at RWD), as now, you had the distinct opportunity to respond constructively to the questions and challenges that ALL Commercial Members face at RWD. In fact, I distinctly recall in the previous exchanges offering you several opportunities to find a 'success path' that would have made you look rational and measured and, dare I say it - professional. You chose a different path then.

Several consistencies appear in your pattern of behavior - then and now. One is that you are, as Gator described it, not an analytical person, but rather a creative and intuitive person. If you were more analytical, you might have noticed that I provided you a 'plug' yesterday for your business model. If you were more analytical, you might be more circumspect about making statements you cannot substantiate - such as your assertion that; "jack enjoy soft glove treatment from the management," which is pure hogwash. A more analytical person is likely to be MUCH more instrospective and would consider the role they played in any negative outcomes - but I have come to realize that is not you Eduard.

Now, I recognize that you are never going to be the 'analytical' type and some of the things just pointed out are NEVER going to become your forte. I can live with that. What triggers a nerve in me that I feel COMPELLED to respond to is your whiny never-ending victim BS.

Look - either get your big boy pants on and play on the varsity squad - or get the he!! off the field of play!

Manny, as much as anyone, has more to complain about than you do - and yet, instead of complaining he is offering his perspective and - to some extent anyway - there remains the possibility that Manny and Jack (after they finish with this dust-up) might be able to come to some kind of 'meeting of the minds' if grudgingly.

OK so now I will call on the Mods and Daveman to pick up here as I am CLEARLY not objective. For the record Eduard - your business model has merit for some - I recognize that. Your personality style and character appeals to some - I recognize that. Your strengths of character and intuitive nature has merit and some folks will find your character appealing - I recognize that. I might even like you if we met in real life - Gator seems to think so. I respect and appreciate your sense of responsibility to your clients - to your wife and to your children. All strong qualities that are worthy of respect - and I do.

With all that said - your whininess makes me want to choke the living crud out of you.

Daveman (et al) - it's all yours.

- Dan

LOL, Dan, I just had a vivid picture of you and I wrestling in the mud in Gator's backyard in my mind! I appreciate the plug yesterday by the way and agree with much that you wrote, however I'm frustrated by FP's attacks and his recommendation to the newbies "not to use Eduard's services". Based on what? And he is the MOD... That wasn't right IMO. I feel that instead of making SPs remove any reference to their business from the signature area (other than "punishment" I don't know how to interpret the logic behind that decision) why not implement the policy Vinn suggested - SPs shouldn't attack and try to discredit each other. I wish that jack had a mental capacity to realise that no one wins when he does that, and since he can't maybe this should become part of TOS.

[Daveman]

LOL I know this is a stretch, but.....

If given the thought, considering the state of the MOB these days and age...these trio stand to make more of what they individually offer - together (less the silly video), than banter amongst one another...

"for united we stand, divided we fall" type of Sphinxie-like theme...

Sort of a one-fee-full-serviced smorgasbord-type of dating service....

yeah.. the Rep Boys -- Manny, Eddie and Jack 

Serendipity at its finest!

And we will see where the first 50k in startup cash comes from! 

[Eduard]

Ed, as you should know, I really have nothing at all against you. I actually kinda like your online persona and we'd probably get along splendidly (as we're both neurotic Pisceans). You seem sincerely helpful, care about your clients, etc.  Don't worry, we won't actually let Dan strangle the crud out of you.  I personally think you should just bow out of this thread gracefully at this time.  Sometimes the best defense actually *is* to just keep silent and wander off to the bar and tip a few...

thanks Dave! All the Pisceans I've ever met were good people  

[Vinnvinny]

thanks Dave! All the Pisceans I've ever met were good people  

Hey Ed. Guess what my star sign is? 

[GQBlues]

thanks Dave! All the Pisceans I've ever met were good people

'Were'?!? Until what? You got to know them better, or 'they' you?    :noidea:

[Eduard]

Hey Ed. Guess what my star sign is? 

no wonder we were becoming friends on RUA once jack was gone from there  ;-)

[Voyager36]

The book didn't say "Don't go on Jack's tours" (IIRC) but Manny's opinion is that going on a tour is not a good way to look for a wife. Why did Manny come to that conclusion?
Probably the same way that most of the forum members have. We had a topic about this some time ago, the majority of RW said that a tour wasn't a good place to find a wife. Of the married non-commercial members here, how many of the wives would recommend tours as a good way for a WM to go?

That being said, Turboguy (a mod here) went on Jack's tour IIRC and didn't give it a negative review. (again IIRC) Vinny you also went on the tour, and as one of the most savvy (western) Russian travellers, if you thought the tour was worthwile that's a pretty good recommendation.

If you stated in your book that tours like Jack’s are nothing more than sex tours then I can see why he didn’t like what you had written. Not only is it factually incorrect, there also appears to be no substance whatsoever to support your opinion.

Perhaps at this juncture you could tell us how many tours you have been on and how many times you have visited Ukraine? If, as I suspect, the answer to both questions is a big fat ‘0’ then perhaps you could point us in the direction as to where,  how and why your opinion was gained?

[Voyager36]

As I have written in another thread, forum's like this are far richer because of Jack's and Eduard's involvement ... I would even include Manny in that too.

I don't run a forum like this but if I did then I would introduce a hard and tight rule that forbids one service provider making any comment's about another service provider. There are enough 'civilian' members around who are more than capable of questioning possible BS claims that don't appear to be true.

My personal belief is that to instigate the above rule resolves more 'issues' that it will cause and for guys like me who are in searching mode then I can certainly do without the waters being made more muddier than they already are.

Good point Vinny.  

[Eduard]

Voyager, another point worth mentioning that regardless of what I think of tours in general or jack's tours in particular I never said anything negative about his business first . He has always initiated the attack on me (it started on RUA) and I was just responding simply trying to defend myself.

[Faux Pas]

LOL, Dan, I just had a vivid picture of you and I wrestling in the mud in Gator's backyard in my mind! I appreciate the plug yesterday by the way and agree with much that you wrote, however I'm frustrated by FP's attacks and his recommendation to the newbies "not to use Eduard's services". Based on what? And he is the MOD... That wasn't right IMO. I feel that instead of making SPs remove any reference to their business from the signature area (other than "punishment" I don't know how to interpret the logic behind that decision) why not implement the policy Vinn suggested - SPs shouldn't attack and try to discredit each other. I wish that jack had a mental capacity to realise that no one wins when he does that, and since he can't maybe this should become part of TOS.

Eduard, I second the request that you put your big boy panties on and get with the program or move along as you threatened. Nobody is here to coddle you. Quite frankly, and I am included, most here could care any less about you. You were not attacked by me. You built a strawman argument and attributed it to me. I merely asked you a line of direct questioning. You took the defensive posture and started sniveling like a 3 year old as you are doing in this thread. You choose to take it as an attack where it was honest questioning. I don't have to or need to try your services to decide if I like it. I am entitled to an opinion and my opinion, to which I concluded from that thread remains, I would not in any form or fashion recommend your services.

[Voyager36]

And the thot plickens!

Okay, so to summarize thus far..
Does that about sum it up? or are there missing points that could be bulleted concisely?

Sure:

1.) Jack claims that his lady's pic is published in Manny's book. He will find the pic and somebody will cough up $50 k  

2.) jack claims that Ed in not IMBRA compliant.

If I understand Ed's reply correctly, he is not an agency, and neither obtains nor dispences a lady's contact Info. So if "Customer x" gets a lady's info from "ABC website" and then asks Ed to translate letters or do a 3-way call, the IMBRA obligation rests with "ABC website", not with Ed. If "ABC website" failed to get the IMBRA release prior to giving out the info to the customer, it could screw up the immigration process, regardless of what Ed did

I'm sure the internet lawyers will jump in now and pontificate further on the matter.  

3.) Jack is asking about references.

Let's focus on this now.  For a few days I have asked if you would send me the names and email addresses of three men who you have helped to get married.                

I don't know about marriages, as neither Turbo or Vinny married a girl from Jacks tours. But they are both satisfied customers. (I think?) Both are well established forum veterans, so a solid recommendation in my book.

As far as folks on the forums who have used Ed's services, Catman, Divad, Maxter, Matador & JoeAlaskan have all said they are satisfied.

[Voyager36]

Does that about sum it up? or are there missing points that could be bulleted concisely?

4.) Jack complains about a "disreputable website " reference. Presumably this refers to the "Jimslistsucks" spoof site.

 Just to clarify, does Jack deny being a principal in that website?

5.) Jack gives Manny's book a crappy review

Regarding writing sour grapes book reviews I disagree. I wrote a very accurate book review as I saw it, why would anyone want to waste $20 (or $30) on your so called book, nothing more than a copy and paste collection of post's from three/four Russian discussion boards over the last 7-8 years.        I knew you would not like what I thought of your book, the absolute worse I had ever read on the subject of pursuing a Russian wife

One of the things I found alarming in this book, besides some of the outrageous statements,

Jack, just to clarify, (a) Which parts of the book do you allege are copy/pasted from the forums, and who's post was copied?
(b) What parts/advice in the book do you find "alarming"? (other than the alleged GFphoto)
(c) Which other books have you read Jack?

Question for the general membership of the forum, how many people here have read multiple RW books?
Personally, I've read Elena's book, Smiley's book & Manny's book.

[Daveman]

Voyager36, thank you for the concise summary... much easier to follow this way.

As for you question about RW related books, I have read only two - Elena's e-book (at the very beginning of my curiosity of this grand adventure), and the compilation e-book listed in my signature (for which I receive no compensation for the blurb).  Other than those my only reading has been limited to the forum.

[Daveman]

Interesting you suggest that. Over at PL, we established exactly this sort of 'tribunal' for warring members. We appointed a 'Judge' that was agreeable to both/all parties - established some 'rules' for presentation of the case - and then let the members determine who 'won' the case through a vote.

If the principals want to take a look at what was established at PL (http://www.planet-love.com/forum/index.php?board=41.0) for use here, I am willing to give it a try.

What do y'all say?

- Dan

It's a pretty good idea. And obviously workable if done before

I lean more toward something far less sophisticated though for the bright RED members. I kinda like the idea of commercial members leaving each other alone entirely. If one makes an accusation against another, there's a 24 hour window to provide the actual evidence or face the firing squad... more like a military tribunal. 

[JR]

This thread isn't dead or locked yet?!?!?! This *snip* is so nauseating I couldn't even read it. The only part worth reading is some of the responses. Do any of you three principles understand this is not WWF? Do you not understand that with every keystroke you make yourselves less attractive to potential clients who may be reading this tripe?

Three cheers to whoever it was that wrote you should try working together to save your industry rather than hanging stones around each others necks then waging a fisty cuff war in the middle of the Atlantic.

Lets see who'll be the first to throw more mud into the wind....