For older guys . . . how young is too young

[Jumper]

well when you are 90 and she is 70.......................
you'll be fighting over the polident?


other than that ,
i can't think of much as i agree with several posters -
that most women over 40, well know if it's something comfortable with them ,
and they have enough life experience to judge this (and themselves ) more accurately, and weigh all the variables.
(the biggest being: she is more likely to be a widow..longer )

[GoodOlBoy]

Can you mention a few reasons . . . and only for the women aged 40 and above group?

I will say only this....the energy level (both mentally/physically) needed to keep up with a RW 20 years your junior, will be exhausting and it really doesn't matter how many vitamins or blue pills you pop.


GOB

[GQBlues]

Based on the premise set, then I’m out of the loop on this one. Hence nothing to add except to say that this quoted statement…..

3. Women do lose interest in sex after menopause.  Despite those who will claim otherwise, I absolutely know it to be true.

…reminded me of one of Mr. Dangerfield’s one-liner….

” We sleep in separate rooms, we have dinner apart, we take separate vacations - we're doing everything we can to keep our marriage together.”

Gen. Custer, Sir if you don’t mind me asking, what are we doing this for?

[Turboguy]

I would like to hear opinions relevant for guys aged 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60 . . .  65 . . .  70 . . . and so on.  Get it!!

Well, I am not sure if I should stick my toe in this door or not but since I am about 4 dots from the right hand of the age scale and since I have been accused of participating in every age gap thread on the internet I will stick my toe in.  I don't want to ruin a perfect record.

I tend to disagree with item 3 as well.  I will say it happens a lot but it is far from universal. 

Many feel a large age gap is a sizable obstacle.  I do feel there are pluses and minuses. 

An older woman will have a harder time learing a new language so if you are going to look for women closer to your age, I would be careful with a woman with no English.

Older women may also have more problems adjusting to life in a new country.  Her skills likely won't transfer and taking up a new career later in life will be harder.

With older women you have more chance of problems with kids.  Her kids may or may not be grown.  If they are grown, it means she has to leave them.  That may create problems.  There are also more chances of kids interfering in your life. 

Many of those things can happen with younger women as well so it is just my thoughts of things to be aware of.  Sometimes a larger age gap may be less problem than you might encounter with a woman close to your age.

One plus is that younger women are more likely to change physically.  If a woman gets to 45 or so and is still thin and attractive, she probably won't change that much that quickly where younger women may.  There are a lot of really nice looking women in the FSU in their 40's and early 50's.

[Gator]

I am in my mid 50s (getting toward upper end actually).

Perhaps I am 10 years ahead of you in both my age and my experience with RW. 

I find it interesting that your three reasons are either superficial or wrong or both, yet your flawed logic yields a correct decision – concentrate on 40-something RW.

Whether you can make it work depends upon so much – far more than your three puny reasons begin to touch.

[Gator]

PRIMARY ADVICE

-  Be patient.

-  Have an open mind.   

-  Make sure your goals are aligned with hers, not necessarily the same (fairly easy with 40-something who know far more about what they want than younger women).

-  Bring her to America on a tourist visa (tourist visas are not difficult for 40-something RW who have a good job); here, she can see how you live and you can see how comfortable she fits into your lifestyle.

-  Find someone with whom conversations are spontaneous,  invigorating, and never ending. 

-  Make sure you laugh a lot, especially at the absurdity of many misunderstandings which can otherwise become frustrating.

-  Focus on women who have a happy family life.

-  Consider it a bonus if she is a challenge - somewhat reluctant to leave her friends, family and country.   

-  Above all else, don’t accept anything less than “Big Love,” something you can feel in your bones, not your balls.

[Gator]

OTHER OBSERVATIONS - SEX

Sex and a woman’s physical body seem to hold a high place in your thinking even though you are no longer in your 20s.  Sometime take a trip to the Russian Riviera (aka as Turkey) and study how some of these 40-60 yo RW let their bodies balloon after achieving a comfortable lifestyle.  Then rethink your criteria about what you want.

ManLooking, your posting style suggests that you are argumentative and sometimes less than direct.  Some of these 40-something RW can be rather argumentative – tread carefully.  I would rather poke my eyes with needles than spend any more time with some of them, I don’t care if their breasts were still dense and their ass tight and their long legs got in the way during sex.

These 40-something women know how to please a man and how to act.  Make sure their heart is into it.

[GoodOlBoy]

If I may ManLooking, I would like to add one other comment about 40 to 50 something yr. old RW (since you might fish in this age pond).
There is a special "steeliness" to these women.
Unless they were members of "privileged" families, they all suffered during the collapse of the U.S.S.R. to one extent or another.
My wife has on occasion revealed some very sad details about her suffering during the collapse of the Soviet Union and the subsequent devastating effects it played on her family and all of her friends lives.
Some of the details about living and surviving are horrific!
Do not be to dismissive about this, because these tragic events helped to mold the way these women think and behave today.
Just something else to be aware of.

GOB

[ML]

Thanks for that idea GOB.  That is something that is not often discussed here.  I have heard from some women (and men) about this period of time.  Mostly the bad stories relate the the situation wherein people did not receive their salary for several months, and many also lost their long time jobs as factories shut down, etc.

Most that told me their stories related how they survived by getting food from their family who had dacha gardens or even lived on small farms in the countryside.  Another way they survived is that they simply stopped paying their utility bills and other apartment fees, etc.  Apparently no one was evicted during this period for not paying these bills.  And some people apparently have never completely paid these back bills.

But something which none of my acquaintances have explained to me was:  How did those who had no income and no relatives sending food from the farm survive?  All who told me their stories seemed to not know someone who was in that latter situation.

Also, despite the very hard times (and I heard some doozzies), none seemed to be overly bitter or psychotic about it.  But maybe they are just good at hiding it.

[XMan]

I did extensive calculations and analyzed everything imaginable (particularly including specific age range), then drew up this laundry-list-equivalent of things I thought were necessary to find a good match.  And after finding such a seemingly compatible person (after months and months of searching, writing, traveling, etc.), watched my personal train wreck of June/July happen (which was broader than just a relationship, but it's pointless to delve into).   

I know there have been hundreds of age-difference age-gap related posts. 
IMO, throw them all out the window.
All of it.
Everyone is different. 
Period. 
I've seen craziness work, and sanity inexplicably implode, and variations of pretty much everything else go in every imaginable F-ing direction.

Find the right person for you.

Forget the formulas, hypothesis, theories, and everything else. 

Unlearn what you have learned. (Thank you Master Yoda.)

You will have just as good a chance stumbling upon the right thing as you will have charting a course and executing a well designed plan.  It's a crap shoot.  And this is coming from a Master Planner Extraordinairre.

And my post, I am sure, is worth the paper it is not written on. 
But, whatever.

[ML]

X-Man I agree with what you have written . . . mostly.  Your thoughts were more concisely penned by Robert Burns, 'The best laid schemes of mice and men, go often askew.'

But I still think there is some merit to setting some broad guidelines as to what you are looking for.  The guidelines may be most useful in stopping one from contacting the wrong persons (for you),  rather than in pinpointing the correct persons.

And I am not asking for formulas or even theories; just everyone's ideas concerning this subject.  There might be some gems tossed in the ring here that I hadn't thought about, or that could be useful to others.

But I completely understand and agree with the 'crapshoot' idea.
Both with respect to finding a mate and actually for life in general.

[kievstar]

Its not a crap shoot.  Anyone thinking that is probably dating out of there league.

[GQBlues]

Its not a crap shoot.  Anyone thinking that is probably dating out of there league.

Kievstar-

Aren't the simple facts WMs court and marry women from another culture and country, where the women generally are a) much younger, b) far more attractive, c) are relatively far more economically-challenged, etc...; are in of itself, or in totality as whole - makes each and everyone dating out of their leagues?

To even emphasize these facts, there are men who even find it vital/necessary to pay another man to hold their hands so they can say 'hello' to their respective women, and/or guide them through the proper so he doesn't get lost in her city, and/or she doesn't sit there and curse him and his entire family tree - in his face - without him even knowing about it, and/or when to eat, where to eat, and how to eat, and/or prevent any women to lavishly spend his money so he instead pays a man 10x more the amount he would otherwise had wasted... LOL.

Exactly how much more being out of their league need to be - to be out of their league really is? There is not ONE partnering in these types of marriages where every single aspect of both persons in these relationships were on equal platform, or at the least, within reasonable variance. NONE.

[kievstar]

GQ, disagree on AW all being ugly. 

League is a lot more than age, looks and money. League does not mean all things need to be equal but overall no glaring holes that makes one party want to move on. 

In your example your talking about old man, deep pockets, and marrying hot young wife.  For some women this will work others it will not.  You can take a rich man, good looking, 35 years old and he can struggle as he is missing other factors to get a wife. 

I do think Eduard and Jack provide a lot of value for men that need help.  The guy who truly believes getting married is a crap shoot needs helps. I have met to many happy couples here in Texas who met via anastiaweb and a foreign affair tours that I believe in them.   I think Eduard and Jack provide a high level of service.  I highly respect Turbo on this site and when he says Jack's tour is good that is enough for me.  Turbo and his wife have a huge age gap but league is more than age and I believe there in the same league as long as his wife does not want children. 



 

[GQBlues]

GQ, disagree on AW all being ugly. 

I will disagree with that also kievstar. But that wasn't what I was saying...

I'm saying the very fact WMs go OUT of their country and culture to date - puts most WMs, if not all, as dating out of their league because of reasons I cited above. These men's league is in-country. How well they do in-country (their league) is a whole different matter. My assumption is - not well. So they go out of their league where the rules are relatively easier and in their favor enabling them to do what they otherwise cannot do in their league at home.

I do think Eduard and Jack provide a lot of value for men that need help.

I understand. There's a video of a dude to prove that point.

[kievstar]

GQ, bring a woman from a different country in a different league and trainwreck happens.  I agree.  Reason many foreign men get divorced and it is not because these women are gold diggers or green carders.  This is the reason I think Jack and Eduard can help as they can keep men in their league.

I agree many men go to Ukraine trying to trade up however this eventually fails and is costly.  When I look at the happy couples on RWD I see no league issues and there is some big age gaps here. 

But your right men get the letters from A-web and they go crazy.  They go to Ukraine and try to be cheap and get the super model.  Take her back to USA and she sits in the house.  Man is a control freak.  Than we all read the mans side of the story here. 

I tell men I meet in Ukraine anything over 10 year age gap and you will be taken to the cleaners (I do not think this is true).  I only do this since most men I meet in Ukraine from USA are clueless and women in there 40's in Ukraine are more desperate.  Thus better chance in their league.   

I have seen the very good looking 30 year old AM in Kiev get destroyed by the real good looking Ukraine women.  We had a couple of these guys on here 2-3 years ago.  All have failed.  Good looks get you so far.  Same as an open wallet.

[XMan]

Its not a crap shoot.  Anyone thinking that is probably dating out of there league.

I disagree. 

There are many, many marriages, within or outside "American" culture, that collapse for a myriad of reasons. 
There are also truly head scratching successes and unexplained (aka I thought they were perfect for each other) failures.  I've seen it with friends, colleagues, etc., AM/AW or AW/British, or AM/Japanese, etc.   

I am not promoting "dating out of one's league," although I disagree with the premise that there is some predefined range that everyone should follow, and I don't mean strictly age, but appearance, height, education, or something else. 

I knew my ex-wife for 7 years before marriage, was married for almost 10 years, it still did not go the distance. 

So, I'll agree to disagree.
Cheers.

[SMS60]

Can someone describe one of the "out of your league"  women? I have all kinds of images in my head Im trying to sort out.

[GoodOlBoy]

Can someone describe one of the "out of your league"  women? I have all kinds of images in my head Im trying to sort out.

Easy.....You are 40 and she is 17-18 yo.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=11638.msg246073#msg246073

[acctBill]

GQ, bring a woman from a different country in a different league and trainwreck happens.  I agree.  Reason many foreign men get divorced and it is not because these women are gold diggers or green carders.  This is the reason I think Jack and Eduard can help as they can keep men in their league.

I agree many men go to Ukraine trying to trade up however this eventually fails and is costly.  When I look at the happy couples on RWD I see no league issues and there is some big age gaps here. 

But your right men get the letters from A-web and they go crazy.  They go to Ukraine and try to be cheap and get the super model.  Take her back to USA and she sits in the house.  Man is a control freak.  Than we all read the mans side of the story here. 

I tell men I meet in Ukraine anything over 10 year age gap and you will be taken to the cleaners (I do not think this is true).  I only do this since most men I meet in Ukraine from USA are clueless and women in there 40's in Ukraine are more desperate.  Thus better chance in their league.   

I have seen the very good looking 30 year old AM in Kiev get destroyed by the real good looking Ukraine women.  We had a couple of these guys on here 2-3 years ago.  All have failed.  Good looks get you so far.  Same as an open wallet.

Kievstar did any of these AM in their 40s or the good looking AM in their 30s speak Russian or Ukrainian?  Were they use to dating women from other cultures?  Had they travelled internationally before? had they lived or worked in other parts of the world before, especially parts of the world where English is not spoken?  Were they in Ukraine as one week or two week wonders or were they planning on staying for a couple of months?  These are the problems most men have when dealing with women from the FSU, the men don't understand anything about the women or her culture and they're lost in a foreign world.

[kievstar]

AcctBill.

When you say speak Russian you mean fluent like a native including no accent?  Answer would be no.  If like 4 years in college studying Russian, answer is yes for some.  If know 500 words many of them. 

Travel international - yes.  Some no, majority yes. 

Work overseas - yes and some no.

No on staying in Ukraine for two months per visit.  6 weeks quite a few.  I am not including the expats as they meet RW at work.  Talking men only wife hunting.  I am also excluding sex tourists which is a lot higher number I have run into than wife hunters however they do use EM and some other agencies as there is a good supply of hookers on EM in Kiev.

So Acct. Bill per your logic your saying 2 month plus per visit, speak native Russian, work overseas, and travel international and you will understand foreign women.  This will help but I have yet to see an American born in USA be native speaker of Russian.   


Some men are better at marriage than dating.  But you have to know how to date before marriage in most cases.  Many men are better at dating and poor at marriage.  Problem is these men get married.  Jack and Eduard can help the men not good at dating who are better at marriage life.
 

[oldernotwiser]

Code: [Select]

Its not a crap shoot.  Anyone thinking that is probably dating out of there league.
No one here can truly read another persons mind.  Also there is the fact that people change, add on to that, chance of accident, illness, misfortune, financial or otherwise.  None of us have guarantees.   What I am trying to say is there is a randomness in a life and life's pursuits, and we are not in control.  I agree with you on many things Kievstar, but I do think perhaps the idea of chance and good fortune are not necessarily suspect.  If you happen to be one of the fortunate ones who remain married to the same women for your entire life, and you love each other as much in your old age as you did when you first married, consider yourself blessed.

Many here our divorced and looking perhaps to marry again.  I cannot speak for them, but I assume they thought as I did.  In marriage, they were getting married once and that was for a lifetime.  I felt very assured in my marriage at the time of its existence, did not really conceive of the notion of being single due to divorce.  Now that was with a woman from my own country, I knew very well, and we were married for over 20 years.

I am not saying we do not have free will and cannot make choices in life that have a better chance of successful resolution.  I am just saying that sometimes things unforeseen have a way of happening, and people cannot control everything, we don't have that power.

[GQBlues]

I am just saying that sometimes things unforseen have a way of happening, and people cannot control everything, we don't have that power.

Yeppers, so therein lies the 2 ruble back-rub.

If you enamored both the elder Olga Korbut and the young fleshy Natalia Vodianova to be your lawful wedded bedmate...who's it gonna be?

tidbit: adding to oldernotwiser's post...

2 weeks ago, a man bought and moved into the house next to us. In our first meeting, he turned out to be 50-years old w/ 2 daughters and was married as recently as 3 weeks prior to that day.

He goes on to say that up until that 3 weeks ago, the entire family was in central California on a week-long camping trip and was having a grand ol' time...or so he thought...

When they came home that night, the wife told him the marriage is over and that she wants a divorce. The sooner, the better.

Long story short, he's an ex-police officer now a HS footbal coach - she, an active successful attorney-at-law.

They decide to end amicably and civilly. They have equal and shared custodial rights to the children. He gets alimony and child support. They will split the equity on their house up on the hill. She keeps the house, they buy him a new one (next to us).

The moral of the story is: Carpe Diem. It's one thing to have tried and failed. It's quite another to have tried and failed with an ugly woman.

[kievstar]

Agree can not control everything but you can control marriage so its more than throwing dice.  My first marriage Catholic priest after taking a test said do not do it.  He was right but we did not listen.  But I could have stayed married and been 95% happy but why settle.  So made sure this time 100% happy every second of the day. 

I met hundreds of women all over the world and made best equal match.  We did take a Russian test on marriage which is similar to the one I took from the Catholic priest.  This test does make sure people are close in league. I doubt anyone else did this on this board. 

[Jumper]

Agree can not control everything but you can control marriage so its more than throwing dice.  My first marriage Catholic priest after taking a test said do not do it.  He was right but we did not listen.  But I could have stayed married and been 95% happy but why settle. 

At 95% happy? one good reason would be to not view it as simply settling ,
because in the context of  a lifetime relationship it  wouldn't be *settling*?
 it would be honoring your commitment to someone who certainly never assured you ,that you would be 99.9 % happy within it all the time??
would you have hung in there at 97% for example? 98%? where's the line? 100% happiness  or nothing your outta there?

sorry not trying to bust your arse, but when you post things like that it comes off  that way,even if it isn't how you meant it.
 

granted it takes TWO people to make the commitment work..
and for you to think you can control all that from one side seems strange.
no amount of due diligence can assure you in the dynamics of human relationships what the other person will think or feel, or do, in some future time or scenario.

also no sane persons wedding vows would include -

So made sure this time 100% happy every second of the day. 

and i'm sure yours din't either, i  don't think you mean this the way it sounds here.

I met hundreds of women all over the world and made best equal match.  We did take a Russian test on marriage which is similar to the one I took from the Catholic priest.  This test does make sure people are close in league. I doubt anyone else did this on this board. 

you make it sound like if all things are researched out ,and nice,tidy, and evenly matched its some recipe for success...
i'd wager heavily that many marriages based on pure emotion ,(or for example simply on some random cultural stigma),
out run many based more on social ,intellectual and other social /cultural measures of *league equality* but lack other substance?

yes  i agree couples should generally match in these areas,
 and feel they generally do?
Marriage problems seem usually far deeper than simply league issues,
those generally seem sorted during dating , and it seldom gets to matrimony if grossly mismatched?

many members are married in their general *league* , or where before,
 both domestically and internationally..

You think the 50% divorce rate domestically really has any "out of their league" reasons behind it?
it certainly isn't a big factor,as its quite uncommon.
and while it may weigh in more in international marriages ,those same fundamental reasons for domestic divorce are probably just as big of factors in international divorce ?


Many orthodox and catholics have been through the priests counciling and testing.
also others certainly have done due diligence in their relationships equal to your own..
to infer otherwise is a bit odd..

I agree completely with you to do due diligence, and that it isn't just a roll of the dice,
but i do acknowledge that luck does play a role,i've seen it far too often to deny it, both good or bad.
In addition people can and often do  change. How well they change together isn't that easy to predict? and as  the dynamic of their relationship changes, the strength of their
 individual commitment to the  marriage fluctuates at various times through life?  maybe a little ,maybe a lot.
I view it as normal, not to be feared or attempt to avoid or regulate,but to embrace and work together through the expected changes?