If you had to live in Kharkov or Dnepr-which would you choose?

[BrianW]

I hope everyone is doing well. There is about a 75% chance I'm taking an extended trip from March until May. I've narrowed the two places down to Kharkov or Dnepr. I'd rather do a smaller town like Paltava or Nikolaev, but it sounds like Kharkov or Dnepr have a better support system for a semi-novice traveller such as myself. I'm going to stay in one place mostly, although I'd like to take a trip to Crimea at some point.

I'm 27 and am on a budget, which isn't tiny, but not huge, either. I'm looking to spend around 5K all included, dating, apartment rentals, etc.

I am extremely low maintenance. My idea of a good time is going for a long walk.

So, if you were me, which city would you choose? Thanks a lot.

[Daveman]

I hope everyone is doing well. There is about a 75% chance I'm taking an extended trip from March until May. I've narrowed the two places down to Kharkov or Dnepr. I'd rather do a smaller town like Paltava or Nikolaev, but it sounds like Kharkov or Dnepr have a better support system for a semi-novice traveller such as myself. I'm going to stay in one place mostly, although I'd like to take a trip to Crimea at some point.

I'm 27 and am on a budget, which isn't tiny, but not huge, either. I'm looking to spend around 5K all included, dating, apartment rentals, etc.

I am extremely low maintenance. My idea of a good time is going for a long walk.

So, if you were me, which city would you choose? Thanks a lot.

If you want to prowl around Crimea, I think Dnepr would be a better choice because you're closer to Simferopol (the gateway to Crimea).  I lived in Kharkiv(ov) for three months and thoroughly enjoyed my stay there.  I've passed through Dnepr a couple of times but never actually stayed there for any length of time, but, it's a pretty city and either place will have a number of ladies to meet.  That being said... a smaller city isn't really a problem for a first timer.. within a couple of weeks you'll be getting used to wherever you are and adapt readily enough... I still say Dnepr.. ask me tomorrow and I'd probably say Kharkov.

If you have  a lady friend in one of the cities, you can get a better deal on a flat by the month as opposed to paying three months worth of nightly stays.. for example, at a lower price of say $40 a night (though if you shop around, you can find $25-30, but they're usually really small and without a proper kitchen), that's roughly $1200 per month X 3 = $3600 through May, $2400 until May -- so your budget is about blown from the get go.. however, if you get a local to help you, you can get a decent flat for between $3-400 per month. It won't be a western epitome of luxury, but it'll be comfortable and you'll have a lot more moolah to spend on your travels and dates... BUT-- you usually have to be able to trust the woman to send some money up front. You could also rent a few days, and then get someone to help you find a long-term, but better to take care of it ahead of time.. and yes, [CAVEAT WARNING] this is breaking a couple of the commandments.. I've done so many times and as of yet have not been periled, but, YMMV.  AND difficulties may present themselves if you are planning to meet (or especially invite to your flat) more than one unless the first one understands the situation.

If you don't rent by the month, your budget is going to go mostly on your flat - in a hurry -  with that long of a stay. 

You'll be looking at about $200 per month in food for the apartment if you don't go overboard. It can be done on $5000 (not including airfare of course), just don't blow too much on restaurants and stuff the first month and wind up a penniless hermit for the second 

[BrianW]

Thanks Dave. Yes, I'm very aware of the difference between the daily and monthly rental rates. I've got a local that can help me find a decent place for 400 a month. Again, I'm extremely low maintenance and as long as it has a working bathroom, I'm pretty much sold.

[erudite]

There is plenty to do and see in Kharkiv, even before summer. It also has major railway connections everywhere, is safe, good clubs, a new airport, lots of pretty women, lots of good restaurants, lots of history, even an American style Jazz club, nice new apartments, plenty of taxis, public transportation, even good shopping centers with inside entertainment, ice skating, hockey and video arcades, great parks if weather permits and a huge public square with events all the time.  I will post a picture of what Kharkiv looks like in June.

[Gator]

I spent a week in Kharkiv and two weeks in Dnepropetrovsk.  I give Kharkiv a "B" and Dnepro an "A" even though Kharkiv had more choices.  I just liked the way Dnepro feels and looks.

You can do both easily as well as sidetrips.  Dnepro is only 3-4 hours from Kharkiv via train.

I could not live on $150/day, much less $50.  However, at your age I lived like a student at times and never complained. 

I don't know what the UW reaction will be to someone living like a student.  I assume most women you will meet will be students or recent graduates. The flashy "9s" and "10s" will have been spoiled by local men with money, yet something tells me that is not whom you seek. 

I assume your goal for living there is to find a good-hearted, lovely young woman and to spend enough time with her to win her heart. What are your plans for meeting women?  How much of the language do you know? 

[BrianW]

I spent a week in Kharkiv and two weeks in Dnepropetrovsk.  I give Kharkiv a "B" and Dnepro an "A" even though Kharkiv had more choices.  I just liked the way Dnepro feels and looks.

You can do both easily as well as sidetrips.  Dnepro is only 3-4 hours from Kharkiv via train.

I could not live on $150/day, much less $50.  However, at your age I lived like a student at times and never complained. 

I don't know what the UW reaction will be to someone living like a student.  I assume most women you will meet will be students or recent graduates. The flashy "9s" and "10s" will have been spoiled by local men with money, yet something tells me that is not whom you seek. 

I assume your goal for living there is to find a good-hearted, lovely young woman and to spend enough time with her to win her heart. What are your plans for meeting women?  How much of the language do you know? 

Gator,

I don't want to sound rude, but I'm not looking to turn this into a 9 page thread about my trip, to get into debates with "experts" and to defend my strategy and goals. I know enough to accomplish what I want to accomplish, I hope. I'm only interested in knowing which destination is a better place.

It sounds like Dnepr is leading. Thanks for your input.

[Eduard]

There is plenty to do and see in Kharkiv, even before summer. It also has major railway connections everywhere, is safe, good clubs, a new airport, lots of pretty women, lots of good restaurants, lots of history, even an American style Jazz club, nice new apartments, plenty of taxis, public transportation, even good shopping centers with inside entertainment, ice skating, hockey and video arcades, great parks if weather permits and a huge public square with events all the time.  I will post a picture of what Kharkiv looks like in June.

How strange! Kharkov in June looks just like any other FSU city in the summer! 

[BrianW]

Just judging from a couple You Tube videos, Dnepr seems much nicer.

[DKMM]

This might sound funny but the weather is a bit nicer in Dnepr than Kharkov in the spring.  There's not some huge difference but it can be 5-7 degrees warmer on a given day.  Kharkiv is still quite cold in march and april and you won't even see leaves there until May.  It would matter a lot to me if i had no connection to either city because you spend a lot of time in the elements if you are dating. 

You were right to not choose the smaller cities and Nikolaev is a slum any way.

There will be plenty of women to meet in both places.  You might want to contact an agency where you are going to get things rolling or as a backup plan.

[Eduard]

You might want to contact an agency where you are going to get things rolling or as a backup plan.

then you might wanna bring an extra couple of grand with you if you plan to go that rout... and be prepaired to loose it all with no results. If you really are on a tight budget I think your best bet would be to learn as much Russian or Ukrainian as possible before your trip and use that skill to try to meet women in social settings like museums, art galleries, shops, grocery stores, etc. That's pretty easy to do if you speak the language.

[Gator]

Gator,

I don't want to sound rude, but I'm not looking to turn this into a 9 page thread about my trip, to get into debates with "experts" and to defend my strategy and goals. I know enough to accomplish what I want to accomplish, I hope. I'm only interested in knowing which destination is a better place.

I understand you; no offense taken.  Good luck! 

I hope you drop by RWD occasionally and tell us about your travels. 

[GoodOlBoy]

Hey BrianW.
Not trying to be nosey , BUT....Are you planning on meeting your Ukrainian girlfriend "D"?
Did she go home?

GOB

[JohnDearGreen]

I'm only interested in knowing which destination is a better place.

A better place is where the lady is.  She won't go to you, you have to go to her.  I would select a short term rental until I found a lady, and I wouldn't restrict my search to one city.  And I might have a lady found before I ever went there.

[chivo]

My choice would be Dnepropetrovsk, but I don't think it matters if you're going there to meet women. I also think that you'll meet plenty of them regardless if you know Russian or not, although obviously it would help.

11 years ago I spent 3 months in Nabrezhnye Chelny and 6 months in Kazan. I can't imagine the English level is any worse in Kharkov or Dnepr now as it was then and I was able to meet more than enough girls and I knew no Russian then. The key is to hang out where there is a higher probability that they will speak some English (i.e. internet cafes, Mickey D's, around University, etc.).

Keep your radar up and an agency will be the last place you'll want or need to deal with. Good luck.

[Turboguy]

I visited both cities when I did Jack's tour a few years ago.  I also visited Zaporozhye on that tour.  I have expressed my opinion of Zaporozhye vs Dnepropetrovsk a number of times on RWD already which was that my opinion of Zaporozhye was I didn't understand how anyone could want to live in such a smoky, dirty city vs Dnepropetrovsk which was so nice that it made me wonder why any woman would want to leave it.  

Kharkov seemed very typical of most any FSU city.  Nothing special, nothing terrible.  It was OK.  Dnepropetrovsk struck me as one of the nicest cities I had been to in the FSU.  I thought the walkway by the river was great and the central area where they had free concerts was cool and the city seemed clean and progressive.  If I had to live someplace in the FSU it would be at the top of my list.  I liked Kiev well too, Barnaul was nice, Rostov seemed nice.  There are lots of nice places in the FSU.  My vote would be Dnepropetrovsk

[Daveman]

Plus, many have used Cindy Agency in Dnepr with excellent reviews(I personally have not), if you wanted to peruse their catalog and meet a couple. Certainly can't hurt. No, you don't need an agency, but hey, if you have the time then chat with the staff, let 'em know what you are looking for and see if they can hook you up with a compatible type lady.  There are many pretty ones, so try to match the personality.

The problem with the blind on the street meetings is that there is sheer luck involved with the compatibility side of things. Lots of luck involved at the agency as well I guess, but at least a somewhat narrower margin.

Plus, you'll be there long enough to open your own ad and chase/field responses on some local (Russian) sites if you want.  That would be something I would do for sure.. get a translator to help you with a profile in Russian.

Of course, I understand you have a plan and that's great.. just popping out some more suggestions because I like to hear myself type. 

[Vinnvinny]

then you might wanna bring an extra couple of grand with you if you plan to go that rout... and be prepaired to loose it all with no results.

Ed. When was the last time that you personally used agencies in Kharkov or Dnepro?

[Jumper]

I would chose Dneper given only  those two choices..

(Dnepro can be a beautiful city ...)



Given your plan , i do not think the city matters to its success in any way,
 so would pick somewhere in Crimea.

The regions natural beauty, (since you like to walk) the weather would be better,
 the odds of meeting a local the same,
and likely more out of the area people coming there which might help your odds..for example 3 single girls coming together to  visit Crimea for holiday...

where in other cities not quite as likely.
Not a big deal,and probably not much of an influence.


I do think staying there a full 3 months, and dating normally, would be a bit hard on your given budget.
The food costs in Ukraine are probably higher than what you now spend,so just be aware.

[erudite]

Just FYI Dnepr has 7 listed universities and Kharkiv has 11.  Kharkiv is known as university town, so consequently many young female students are there from all over Ukraine. I know you are getting lots of feedback favoring Dnepr, but Kharkiv is a great place for women, all ages, all styles, all interesting.  Bigger city too.  It will always get my vote of course that is where my fiancee lives and I will go there in about 15 days.

[Kuna]

I've not been to Kharkov but I can assure you that if you choose Dnepr you'll enjoy it.

There is lots to do and IMHO provide plenty of opportunities to meet lots of people if you're friendly (but not creepy).  Been home for a month after our annual trip back and had lots of great experiences just striking up conversation with locals.

Here's a page with heaps of good web cams you'll be interested in.  http://www.dnepr.com/cam

A few things about nightlife...  I don't know if we haven't "found it" yet, but there seem to be few (no) "bars" that I would call a bar. It seems to jump from night club down to restaurant/ cafe.  My wife and I did see one place on the left bank which was obviously a "bar" not cafe but she immediately said it was a place for alcoholics and one our way back past there it was populated only by grubbey tradies after work who seemed intent on drinking hard.

We were in a nightclub in the same area and all I can say is that I am glad I am happily married to a wonderful girl. If not, being in that club with so many beautiful girls... well, any "normal" single man would get confused.  [[You might want to wear sunglasses in nightclubs so you are not forced to make eye contact with stunningly beautiful girls...  (kidding,  but when you accidently get into "that eye contact thing" make sure you don't swallow your tongue.   

If I werein your situation Iwould notgo therelookingforagirl. Iwouldgothere seekingoutnewfriends-andI havenodoubtyou'd findagirl.  Afterthat,  it'salldowntothe natural process.

Seriously consider finding clubs/associations/special interest groups before you go there... or get involved in a charity. My wife and I made an effort this time to take a collection up from friends /family beforeour last trip and found a hospital/orphanage that we were able to help out while there - and now we're committed to continuing that support.  You may not find the perfect girl you're looking for in or around the hospital/orphanage,  but you will leave your trip knowing you've done something worthwhile.

Keeping busy while there will make you more attractive than sitting around drooling over all the girls anyway!   

If you need any help at all planning or living in Dnepr let me know, would be more than happy to help how ever I can.

[BrianW]

This thread is excellent. Thanks to everyone.

[ML]

I have spent 2 months or more in both Kharkiv and Dnipropetrovsk.

I rate the choice as a toss up.

Dnipro gets points for its beautiful riverfront walkway.

Kharkiv gets points for being a university town.  Actually many more than 11 universities there.

Kharkiv is a bit easier to navigate from the 'burbs' because it has a much more extensive metro system.

Both cities have a variety of excellent restaurants and, surprisingly, I rate them both as better cities than Kyiv in that respect.

In the end, I would give Kharkiv a slight edge with respect to women.  It is always a judgement call, and our sample size is never big enough, but I rate the women in Kharkiv to be of a higher quality overall.

And, in fact, overall I would rate the Kharkiv women higher than women from every other city in the FSU.  But who knows!

[kievstar]

Kharkiv is known for having more beauty salons per person than anywhere in Ukraine.  The women there take care of themselves a lot more than in Crimea, Odessa, or Kiev. 

[erudite]

I think Kharkiv also has the most nail salons than anywhere in the world for its size and ironically all the sushi restaurants (of which there are many to choose from) have Ukraine sushi chefs, waiters, hostesses, etc. Not one Oriental did I ever see in any sushi restaurant in Kharkiv, but it is excellent table fare.  The Metro will take you just about anywhere you wish to go once you learn it a bit.

[Mila]

Well, if i had to choose, i would spend time in both cities. At least, if it doesn't work in one city, it may work in the other. To mind, this is the best way to do. But, many men, many minds Good luck!