How much of a hard ass do I need to be?

[viking]

I need some advice here. And if you married and are going/or have gone thru this, so much the better.

My wife’s son arrived here about 7 weeks ago. He is 21. Basically a good guy and when asked will help out on things like washing the car and raking leaves. I was also able to get him a job, which he wanted, (  he does not a S/S number, working papers, etc. until his green card arrives) so he is working in a furniture warehouse that is owned by an RM, making cash under the table. He contributes some money to help with food, which is good because he eats like a horse. All of this is positive.

My problem is that he speaks no English. Due to his work he cannot attend school with his mother, nor does he want to. We found a great program on the computer and I am willing to spend time with him on this, for the time being, but he would rather spend hours and hours on the computer chatting with his buddies back home, along with his GF. He is also forever texting this GF, and calling her constantly, which is wreaking havoc on my phone bill. Communications to his home country are far more expensive than say Russia or UKR. Both his mother and I are on the same page and there have been some serious arguments between them regarding his lack of interest in learning English and all this time on the computer, and phone. And I need the comp on a daily basis for many reasons.  I cannot afford another one at this time.

I understand the need for him to be in touch with his friends, and his adjustment here, but this is just a bit over the top. I would prefer for him to develop some friends here. Heck, he will not be seeing these people for at least a year and his home is here. But he makes no effort to seek out people here. And this GF keeps sending him sexy photos and text messages at all hours. The woman does not sleep. Not even a 50yo AM talking to a 25yo RW hottie would spend this much time communicating.

So will I be a the bad guy to either pull the plug on all this time spent on the comp and phone or start to limit his time or start to have him pay for any excess over and above my standard plan? Its really becoming too much. I need to do something without creating unnecessary friction.

We also have some other issues which I will bring up later, but this is the one I need some help on now.

[Boethius]

In your situation, I would not have had your stepson working.  I would have had him enrolled in English classes all day, subsidized by me.  It is critical to his long term success, obviously, that he speak English.  I think it is critical for you to do that, even if short term, it means some economic hardship for you.  He is not out of his comfort zone, because he doesn't have to use English, either at work, or in maintaining his social circle.

I would cut off the phone, or install one of his own that he pays for personally.  I would also suggest that he communicate with his girlfriend on skype, or using a webcam.

I wouldn't push him socially.  He's not a child, and he is obviously still attached to these people.  When he is more comfortable in the US, he will make American friends.

[Nat]

I don't think I can give a wise advice here, because I have no experience in such situations. But just to make situation more clear - could you provide some more info, please? He's 21, which means he's an adult both in the USA and in FSU. So nobody could bring him to the USA against his own will. Did he want to move to the USA in the first place? If he didn't - how come he moved? Didn't he have a place to live or did he want to support his mother while her adaptation process? It seems to me that the answers to these questions would help to explain his attitude.

[ECOCKS]

My take:

You are enabling his behavior.

1. Let him deal with the language on his own, just refuse to let it have an impact on you whether functionally or financially.

2. I'd cut the phone. Help him switch it into his name of course but get him involved with regulating his cash flow or you'll have major problems for eternity.

3. Likewise the computer. Let him have it an hour or two then shut it down. He can buy his own Netbook or laptop with the money he is making under the table.

4. I think it is a major mistake to have him working under the table and never particularly endorse the reconnection with the ethnic community. As you outline, he's already over-involved in "being FSU" so why are you "crutching" him still more by setting up employment with a RM? I think this is a tactical mistake which sets the tone for the future. That's not even counting the legal issues, lack of insurance, Social Security coverage, workmen's comp, etc.

5. If he doesn't speak English, how is he getting around? Does your state offer the driver's test in Russian? Quit supporting him if he doesn't want to be here.

The best thing you say here is that you and the wife are on the same page on this issue. My step son isn't here yet but I have already had several serious conversations with my wife regarding him and my DIL (FSUW) on the issues of learning English, living arrangements, employment and transportation to be sure there are no misunderstandings about expectations, law and reality. Yes, mine is a "good kid" too and my DIL is sweet as can be. However they will be dealing with the cultural, legal, language and social changes while settling in and finding work, establishing a home, learning their way around and making a new life.

Good luck getting this turned around.

[ECOCKS]

PS - I agree with B that the better strategy would be for him to quit the job and get into English full-time but hesitated to say so since you are already into this pattern. My focus was more on coping with things as they were. If you can carry that off then yes, pull him from the job and get him to where he can get a legal job with SS/insurance/workmen's comp coverage and also build his own life here.

[BC]

At 21 there is very little one can do to influence.. after all they are, or should be grown up.  Best you can do is nudge here and there.

That he's holding down a job, hasn't caused a major ruckus, and keeps his nose clean is an achievement in itself so let him know at least you appreciate that.  That he contributes to the food bill is a miracle.

Do however have a bit of patience.. adaptation takes more than weeks.

If there is one thing I have learned over 8 years married to a RW and over 20 parenting it's that things take time.  The quest for a RW is often the result of our desire for instant satisfaction.. but don't expect instant satisfaction once the 'deed is done'.  It's hard work all the way.

If the phone bills are a problem suggest he take responsibility for them as well.  There are free alternatives out there skype, IM etc etc.

Took a quite a while for my wife and kids to adjust - and in many ways we're still working at it.

[viking]

A couple of things. He does not want to go to school. He wants to work and make money. We had some very serious talks about this. I cant force him and neither can his mother. He agreed to learn via computer but that does not seem to be working very well. How strong his desire is to be here in the first place escapes me.

As far as work is concerned, I lucked out with finding this job. The owner speaks english fluently but the main form of communication with him and other workers is in russian. Because he cannot get an S/S number until he receives his green card, maybe 4-5 months from now, he cannot work at a "regular" job.

He wants to drive a car and I found a russian manual for him to study but the test here in NY is in english so I told him that he will not be driving any time soon if he does not learn english.

Neither his friends nor his GF have skype. Dont know why. If he could spend a half hour with her via web cam a few days a week it would help a lot.

I understand he is "overly involved" in being FSU, and not being more involved in meeting people here is going to make it that much more difficult to disengage. He is on some type of community web site and I have encouraged him to meet some men/women here. Lets face it, if he met some nice girl here, AM or RW, chances are he would be spending a lot less time talking with some girl 5000 miles away that he wont see for another year.

And as much as it will create friction, I can hear from your guys that clamping down on the phone and computer will just have to take place. But I dont want him bored either. That is why meeting some people here would be the best thing for him. I will absorb the phone calls up to my max limit on my calling plan but anything above that...well it got to be his nickel. Im just not going to shell out mega bucks so he can chat with his sweetie.

[ECOCKS]

Man, there are no easy answers. if there were, you wouldn't be in this situation.

He probably needs 4-5 months of English training from what you say. Get him in school. As for working, there are/were other options. Yes, all kids believe they have to be making money asap but he will earn less without the education (especially English education) in the long-run. did he not complete Uni over there? Has he got ANY career ambitions? Of course summer work is over now but there should be other cash jobs he can track down with English-speakers.  

[BC]

Viking,

Keeping him from getting bored should be the last of your worries.. after all there is a lawn to be mowed, room to be painted, garage to be cleaned out, car to be washed and plenty more

Alone, all tasks to be procrastinated, but together, possibly to enjoy.

There are a lot of strange, incomprehensible and even alien forces involved so maybe best to start at the very bottom to forge a relationship with your new son with doing things you both fully understand.

[Vaughn]

I will absorb the phone calls up to my max limit on my calling plan but anything above that...well it got to be his nickel. Im just not going to shell out mega bucks so he can chat with his sweetie.

Hi Viking - maybe - just maybe - I could sweet talk Lenara into sharing a call with him - to impact him in a positive way,
of course....  but getting to your quote above, I wouldn't keep the absorption plan so wide open as you plan to. Establish
a numerical allotment in minutes per billing cycle - over which (and make this really clear) he will be 100% responsible.

I just don't see how fair it is to you and your wife to allow him to eat up the lion's share of your maximum - and from what
you've written - he will. This is and will be a tough transition at the age of 21 - but he will come around. For students, there's
practically no choice but to learn English - he's exercising his option to stall - and maybe Lenara could make him see clearly
how he's putting his own life on hold. She won't be thrilled about calling a boy she doesn't know - but I have a few favors I
can call in at this time. Let's keep it open if it works for you.  

[viking]

EC

As far as schooling is concerned I believe he graduated what we call high school. Took some tests for a university but did not really study and was not accepted. Then spent 18 months in the army. He really has no career path as we know it. Some automotive mechanic skills but unless he is working in a Russian shop, how can you take directions?

Vaughn

Lenara is your older daughter? Maybe we can talk about this first. Thanks.

[vwrw]

At 21y.o. people are already sufficiently developed to think for themselves and decide their own problems.  Write him a letter (ask your wife to translate it) wherein tell him that your income is only enough to cover necessities and you do not know where take money to pay the extra for phone. In other words, communicate to him your situation and ask him to help you with finding solution; ask him what he would do if he were in your place.  Ask him to write his suggestion and then ask your wife to translate it. Involving him in solving problems is an effective way to make him cooperative.


In regard to English, start conversing with him by asking him his vision about his future. What he wants to get from his life in America. How he is going to get that. What he intends to do to get it, what will be his first, second step and so on? Once you know what he wants, it will be easy for you to explain the big role that English will play for making his dreams come true.

[ECOCKS]

EC

As far as schooling is concerned I believe he graduated what we call high school. Took some tests for a university but did not really study and was not accepted. Then spent 18 months in the army. He really has no career path as we know it. Some automotive mechanic skills but unless he is working in a Russian shop, how can you take directions?

Vaughn

Lenara is your older daughter? Maybe we can talk about this first. Thanks.

Here's a thought. Get his English up and get him enlisted. Good money opportunity, good maturation process and get him in a good school. His language skill could help. Be sure your wife understands the difference between how our recruits are treated (and paid) and their version of being in the Army.

[Vaughn]

Actually, Viking, she's my only daughter - who speaks both languages fluently.

They're close in age (she's pushing 22), and should be able to relate well. Yeah, a talk between
you and me must precede all, if anything's to happen like that.

I would have thought the prospect of a NYS driver's license would be adequate motivation.

Here's a thought. Get his English up and get him enlisted.

Good thought, Ed ~ I was trained to be a Russian linguist in the Air Force. Although nowadays
it's not a prime target language - his fluency (and youthfulness) could be marketable militarily. 

[OlgaH]

viking,

what does his mother have to say about the situation? Has she had a talk with her son? How long does her 21 y.o. son plan to stay with his mother and you? Does he plan to live his life independently?

[viking]

Olga

In her country, Belarus, and I guess in many parts of the FSU, it is normal for the child to remain with their parents until they marry and then move into one of the others parents flat until they can get one of their own. I explained that here ( finances considered these days) most guys cant wait until they can move out and get their bachelor pad. My 21 daughter has been living away from home for 3 years now. Yes, it is college and she has room mates, but she is still in another state. My wife understand this and agrees that he needs to move on and out as soon as possible.

[tim 360]

Here's a thought. Get his English up and get him enlisted. Good money opportunity, good maturation process and get him in a good school. His language skill could help. Be sure your wife understands the difference between how our recruits are treated (and paid) and their version of being in the Army.

Thats the ticket.  He already has fluent Russian now all he needs is good English.  If the Army doesn't need him the NSA will.

Somehow you gotta cut back on his phone time.  Kids today just can't live without their cells and constant communication, but it is some crazy addiction that gets worse.  I know one 19 year old who gets the DT's if she's not texting or talking on her cell.  It is unbelievable.

[ECOCKS]

Thats the ticket.  He already has fluent Russian now all he needs is good English.  If the Army doesn't need him the NSA will.

Somehow you gotta cut back on his phone time.  Kids today just can't live without their cells and constant communication, but it is some crazy addiction that gets worse.  I know one 19 year old who gets the DT's if she's not texting or talking on her cell.  It is unbelievable.

With education, don't forget Homeland Security, local LE, call centers, etc. Look at the doors/windows which are open.

[acctBill]

Viking let me first state that my wife didn't have children when we married however I had to deal with several of her younger relatives who moved to the UK to attend school and work. Most Russian mothers tend to baby their children even their sons, you're probably not going to get a lot of support from your wife if you want your stepson to adhere to your rules about learning English.  The important thing to do is make sure your wife doesn't actively interfere with your rules.

If you speak Russian you won't need your wife to translate and you can say exactly what you mean, if not it will be harder to get your rules across to your stepson, because your wife won't convey your tone properly.  

First make sure your stepson understands he learns English first, no work, no money.  English classes first until his English is good enough to converse with non Russians.  This means he is enrolled in English classes and does all the homework.  Also get him into some type of routine.  Make sure he doesn't sleep in or hang around the house doing nothing.  You will need to keep an eye on him to make sure he does this.  Also make sure he knows that you are watching him.  I'm not saying to be tough or mean, help him with his homework when needed. Perhaps the two of you could do some activity together on a regular basis?  Even if it's just going to a ballgame or teaching him how to play ball.  I taught one of my wife relatives how to play rugby.  He became very good at it and is still active in the sport even though he has finished university, has a job and British citizenship.  Most Russian teenagers and young men really do need guidance.

He only gets to use the computer to talk to his friends after his homework is done.  Cut down on his phone time back home to something that you can easily afford, again make sure he knows that you're paying attention.  Talk to your wife about this and make sure she understands that you're not being vindictive.  This is being done so that he can integrate into American life and will become a productive citizen.  Hopefully after a while she will see that you are doing what his best for her son and she will actively support you.

You also have to understand that having your stepson living with you is going to cost you money, probably a lot for a couple of years.  He's going to need clothes and some type of allowance and as you mentioned he eats like a horse.  Until he can work he isn't earning any money.  Even when he gets his papers and is allowed to work, insist that he continues with his English language studies until he is at least able to comfortably speak English with non Russians.  It is especially important that you not mention how much money this is costing.  You don't want your wife to feel guilty about the money being spent on her son. She is more likely to support you if she doesn't feel guilt about her son and she believes that you are doing what is best for him.

[viking]

I actually thought about a stint in the army. He already has some training, though I suspect being in the Belarus army is going to be different than the US army. But still he would not be coming in as a complete newbie. A Klaishnakov ( Spelling) or a AK-47 may be different but still automatic weapons. Speaking fluent Russian could be a valuable asset someplace and the pay and schooling during and after would be a great benefit. Not to mention the freebies later in life.

The advice here is most welcome and I see that I am not alone in my thoughts.I also think that meeting some successful men and women here, close to his age, would go a long way in breaking his ties to back home.

[OlgaH]

Olga
My wife understand this and agrees that he needs to move on and out as soon as possible.

This is the most important your wife to be on the same page with you and the main talk should come from her mouth. You all should sit together and decide what to do, and IMO she has to start the conversation at the table. She has to tell her son that the computer is your job that btw pays his bed in the house, he must pay his phone bills, and etc... And he should know there is no hope for him to stay with you for long time and he must be ready to leave as soon as possible that it will be only in his interest and benefit, and start his own life with his own responsibilities.

[ECOCKS]

I actually thought about a stint in the army. He already has some training, though I suspect being in the Belarus army is going to be different than the US army. But still he would not be coming in as a complete newbie. A Klaishnakov ( Spelling) or a AK-47 may be different but still automatic weapons. Speaking fluent Russian could be a valuable asset someplace and the pay and schooling during and after would be a great benefit. Not to mention the freebies later in life.

The advice here is most welcome and I see that I am not alone in my thoughts.I also think that meeting some successful men and women here, close to his age, would go a long way in breaking his ties to back home.

You know, with prior service and decent English they might spot him to E-3 faster than normal. That GI Bill Savings plan, vet preference and all would indeed come in handy.

I took it that your wife and you are in total agreement on intervention being necessary.

[acctBill]

You know, with prior service and decent English they might spot him to E-3 faster than normal. That GI Bill Savings plan, vet preference and all would indeed come in handy.

I took it that your wife and you are in total agreement on intervention being necessary.

Ecocks, Viking have either of you given any thought what would happen to Viking's marriage if her son were to die on service with the US Army?  Most Russian mothers, don't know about Belorussian but it's probably the same, don't want their sons to do military service.  Too many young Russian men have died in the Russian Army because of accidents, hazing and other non combat related deaths. 

If Viking's stepson were to enlist in the US Army there is a very real chance he could end up in Afghanistan or Iraq (still thousands of US military personnel in Iraq).  Even if he didn't die, he could end up wounded, perhaps maimed for life.  What do you think his mother would say?  There is a very real chance that Viking's could suffer/end because of his stepson's enlistment in the US Army.

[Shadow]

Viking, I think you look at this from the wrong perspective.

In order to help him, and make him understand a number of things, you should not look at what you want, but at what he wants.

You said he wants to make money. So get him at that wish. I think it is pretty easy to convince him he will make a lot more money if he speaks English. On top of that you can show him the phone bills, and tell that they will either be paid by him if he puts his job as highest priority, or by you if he leanrs English as long as there is no job.

As far as his friends not having Skype etc, nothing strange as for the youngsters a mobile phone with internet is more important as a home connection. But they probably have MSN, and that also has a voice connection which is free.
If his GF uses a normal computer, she can get skype, if not it can still be installed on your end to reduce phone costs.

Now for the career. Again it seems that you are making the decisions here instead of him. And if I hear his history, it is not the first time that he displays lack of interest in life. what you got to do is enlighten him that if he wishes to make money he will have to know how he will make it. Talk about his interests and what he would like to do every day, then see if you can support him in reaching that.

You can not force him, and you should not take decisions for him. Let him find his own way, but in the mean time do not let him become a burden.

[ECOCKS]

Ecocks, Viking have either of you given any thought what would happen to Viking's marriage if her son were to die on service with the US Army?  Most Russian mothers, don't know about Belorussian but it's probably the same, don't want their sons to do military service.  Too many young Russian men have died in the Russian Army because of accidents, hazing and other non combat related deaths. 

If Viking's stepson were to enlist in the US Army there is a very real chance he could end up in Afghanistan or Iraq (still thousands of US military personnel in Iraq).  Even if he didn't die, he could end up wounded, perhaps maimed for life.  What do you think his mother would say?  There is a very real chance that Viking's could suffer/end because of his stepson's enlistment in the US Army.

Yes, so? It's a personal choice. I don't find anything in this comment that would give me pause for recommending consideration as an option.

The chance of him dying while performing military service may or may not factor into the decision to enlist. His chance is no greater than anyone else in his particular branch or specialization. For those who cannot make the decision to place themselves between their country and it's enemies obviously this is not a good choice.

It's merely an option which offers good pay, medical care, savings for the future, excellent training opportunities and a chance to mature while learning life's ropes and saving for completing an education. Compared to other options, it strikes me as pretty viable.

I wouldn't worry about this anymore than I would that he might lose a finger working in a butcher shop or get electrocuted as an electrician's apprentice and a lot less than that he would get killed hustling drugs on the street to make ends meet as an untrained and unemployed adult.