How much of a hard ass do I need to be?

[vwrw]

Viking, I think you look at this from the wrong perspective.

In order to help him, and make him understand a number of things, you should not look at what you want, but at what he wants.

You said he wants to make money. So get him at that wish. I think it is pretty easy to convince him he will make a lot more money if he speaks English. On top of that you can show him the phone bills, and tell that they will either be paid by him if he puts his job as highest priority, or by you if he leanrs English as long as there is no job.

As far as his friends not having Skype etc, nothing strange as for the youngsters a mobile phone with internet is more important as a home connection. But they probably have MSN, and that also has a voice connection which is free.
If his GF uses a normal computer, she can get skype, if not it can still be installed on your end to reduce phone costs.

Now for the career. Again it seems that you are making the decisions here instead of him. And if I hear his history, it is not the first time that he displays lack of interest in life. what you got to do is enlighten him that if he wishes to make money he will have to know how he will make it. Talk about his interests and what he would like to do every day, then see if you can support him in reaching that.

You can not force him, and you should not take decisions for him. Let him find his own way, but in the mean time do not let him become a burden.

Great advice!

[ECOCKS]

Another PS - Regarding the military service, the payback also includes (for many) the sense of serving and protecting your country and family. I didn't want anyone to think that isn't part of it for some but was responding without bringing up mom, apple pie and fields of amber grain. All very rewarding parts of service but that wasn't part of the challenge to the suggestion.

[GQBlues]

I need some advice here. And if you married and are going/or have gone thru this, so much the better.
.......
My problem is that he speaks no English. Due to his work he cannot attend school with his mother, nor does he want to. We found a great program on the computer and I am willing to spend time with him on this, for the time being, but he would rather spend hours and hours on the computer chatting with his buddies back home, along with his GF. He is also forever texting this GF, and calling her constantly, which is wreaking havoc on my phone bill. Communications to his home country are far more expensive than say Russia or UKR. Both his mother and I are on the same page and there have been some serious arguments between them regarding his lack of interest in learning English and all this time on the computer, and phone. And I need the comp on a daily basis for many reasons.  I cannot afford another one at this time.

LOL. I was told, in this very site, that *I* should learn Russian in a situation like the one you're in.

No worry on the phone Viking. Go to Best Buy and get yourself a Magic Jack. It's $36.00. Register it from your computer, assign a number to it, then stick it inside a DHL shipper and have him send it to his GF. Bwalla. She gets it, sticks it in her computer (through USB) and they can talk all day, everyday, every week for the price of a big NADA. There's an annual fee of $20.00/yr. That's all. VOiP.

I'm sure you also know all about Skype/Messenger, etc...on top of the VOiP. Send a webcam ($40.00) along with the MagicJack. Get him his own computer. You can get a brand new eMachine at Office Depot for less than $400.00. Complete. It won't have all the bells and whistles on it but it'll have a tough enough HD to serve the purpose and ease your angst for the moment. Put it on credit and have him 'pay' it back to you from his P/T job. All in all, $500.00.

Give him space and time. He's 21 and just got here. He needs to spot a few locations to pee on and stake his boundaries. Additionally, he's one cute Barbie away from forgetting Ms. Sexy Olga from Russia. He needs your trust, your guidance and yep - patience.

[acctBill]

Another PS - Regarding the military service, the payback also includes (for many) the sense of serving and protecting your country and family. I didn't want anyone to think that isn't part of it for some but was responding without bringing up mom, apple pie and fields of amber grain. All very rewarding parts of service but that wasn't part of the challenge to the suggestion.

Ecocks please understand military service is something to be actively avoided in Russia and presumably in Belarus.  Families go to great lengths to make sure their son(s) don't serve in the military.  If this mother and son have this popular attitude towards military service trying to get him to enlist in the US military is going to add to the stress in the family.  The stress in the family will be magnified exponentially if Viking's stepson is wounded, maimed or killed. 

Leaving all those problems aside there are numerous stories coming out of the US about families of wounded and maimed US military vets having to shoulder enormous costs themselves because the US government is not covering all medical costs for injuries received while in service in Afghanistan and Iraq.  Is Viking willing to cover some medical costs if these costs are denied by the US government?

http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/547/index.html   

[viking]

GQ

I hear ya. I wish Miss Barbie would show up already.But this goes deeper than just the costs.Its the attachment he has to back home and unwillingness to separate.I know its still early yet, but there are no signs of any wanting to move forward. His mom, for example, loves going to school and doing her homework every night and then some. This kid has difficulty concentrating for more than 10 minutes. And this then leads into the amount of time spent yakking as opposed to trying to study.You just cant learn english at that pace. I know patience is required here. But I really want the best for this man and he is sorely trying that patience. I know what is in front of him but he does not have a clue.

VWRW

I like your idea, but my wife is not in a position yet to fully articulate some deeper concepts accurately. So something will get lost in the translation.

Shadow

He doesn't know what he wants yet, other than a lot of money and a car. He wants to win the marathon without training.

[OlgaH]

You can not force him, and you should not take decisions for him. Let him find his own way, but in the mean time do not let him become a burden.

Yes I agree and I also recall a saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink". A 21 y.o. person is n adult enough to understand a simple truth as "no pains, no gains" for example.

He doesn't know what he wants yet, other than a lot of money and a car. He wants to win the marathon without training.

So, I think the simple answer to him would be if he wants a lot of money and a car he must earn it, plus without English he will not pass the driving test 

[ECOCKS]

Ecocks please understand military service is something to be actively avoided in Russia and presumably in Belarus.  Families go to great lengths to make sure their son(s) don't serve in the military.  If this mother and son have this popular attitude towards military service trying to get him to enlist in the US military is going to add to the stress in the family.  The stress in the family will be magnified exponentially if Viking's stepson is wounded, maimed or killed. 

Leaving all those problems aside there are numerous stories coming out of the US about families of wounded and maimed US military vets having to shoulder enormous costs themselves because the US government is not covering all medical costs for injuries received while in service in Afghanistan and Iraq.  Is Viking willing to cover some medical costs if these costs are denied by the US government?

http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/547/index.html   

Bill:

You're taking something simple and making a big deal out of it based upon politics and propaganda.

I fully understand how military service is viewed in the FSU, go back and read what I wrote originally where I mentioned being clear about the differences. My stepson went through their university training program for the air branch and did a 30-day stretch at the Zhitomir airbase a couple of years ago. I have friends who study military efficiency and differences for a living.

Not sure what weird stories you're reading but political hype and anti-war propaganda and agendas are distracting from Viking's question and thread.

[GQBlues]

It's a tough situation really Viking. I was in the same situation as your SIL a few moons ago and what I can tell you is, it isn't any easier from his vantage point either. I'll spare you mundane details since that isn't why you're here, but I will tell you this. Your situation can only be helped through both your lady and her son. You simply need to be very patient and very steady. Do not breakdown. They need to sort this out themselves, especially him.

I arrived here a few years younger than your SIL. I also didn't speak Anglitzky, except thank you and good morning. It didn't matter what you said to me, you got either of those two words, or both, as a response.

I remember the last thing I took to bed with me the first day I arrived in the States are my Mum's words to me - in our tongue. After a few emotional words of love, endearment, etc...she basically told me that from the moment I wake up in the morning that she will no longer speak in our native tongue with me. She said that she'll provide me anything and everything I may need within her power I just need to somehow find a way to tell her in English. She said I'm no longer back home and I am now in the US and people here speaks English and since I'm behind learning the language compared to the rest of the kids my age, she must forbid me to speak our tongue and learn English as fast as I can.

She tells me that she would really like to see me go and finish college but since we're poor as dirt, I will need to learn the language, finish my HS, work, and hopefully make enough to see myself through. Thus, there is no other choice than to do what she wanted me to do - learn to speak the language spoken here.

Done. She kissed me good night and that was the last time for a very, very long time I heard my Mumski spoke our language.

Like your SIL, I too, was love struck. I left behind my truest puppy love. It took Michelle a total of 3 minutes of serious tongue action for me to forget her.

You need to be steady, Viking. You need to be patient and supportive at the right time. I will suggest that you not take over the chief responsibility in dealing with your SIL. Leave it to Mumski. All the rest of the other work, unfortunately is not to come from you, but rather from 'them'.

I can share some things with you from 'my' vantage point anytime you want. How I viewed my Popski then, and how I viewed him thereafter, etc...same with Mumski. Much of what happens with 'him' now, will shape much of what happens to you and your lady's life and future.

Be VERY steady.

[Shadow]

Shadow

He doesn't know what he wants yet, other than a lot of money and a car. He wants to win the marathon without training.

It seems from what I wrote that the guy has always been provided with what he needs and given options on what to do by others. At his age it is time that he starts making his own plans and decisions. If he wants a lot of money and a car, he should think of what he can do to  get that. By providing him with options you will not help him forward.

[BC]

Sounds like mother is setting a good example by going to school, enjoying it etc.

Given some time he'll learn by her example and resulting success, hopefully following along.  By nature a 21 yr old will not want to be told what to do, but a reasonable list of expectations for living in your household to be used as a goal is quite appropriate.

What would that list of goals look like for your end Viking?

Is he into any type of sports or other hobby activities?  Something like soccer, hockey, etc wouldn't require too much language at the beginning but get him involved with similar minds.

[vwrw]

Viking, GQ gives you really good recommendations.

VWRW
I like your idea, but my wife is not in a position yet to fully articulate some deeper concepts accurately. So something will get lost in the translation.

I agree that your wife is not yet on the level of English to articulate deeper concepts accurately in speaking English. However, she does not need to do that. She only needs to translate accurately the concepts you would have articulated for her or her son to be more exact. With the assistance of Google translator, usage of already acquired knowledge of English, and on-line dictionary, she will do a good translation. Just put your messages in writing and say that for the proper effect, the translation of your message should be accurate.  She may have more trouble translating her son’ messages to English; if so, she is welcome to send his messages to me, I would be glad to help her with translations.
 
The fact that he offered to share his income with you is a very good indicator of his NOT egoistical or self-conceived nature.  I think your problem consists of bad communication to a large degree. The boy likely thinks that the money he gives you are enough to buy his food and his messaging/calling to Belarus, and that is why he allows himself to message without restraining himself.  Maybe he does not want to study English after work because the work exhausts him, not because he does not understand the importance of studying English. 

[Misha]

But this goes deeper than just the costs.Its the attachment he has to back home and unwillingness to separate.I know its still early yet, but there are no signs of any wanting to move forward.

It has only been 7 weeks: he is homesick and, if anything, it will get worse when culture shock sets in. Keep in mind that he did not move for love, but clearly left a woman that he loves behind. These things don't get resolved overnight and it will take months, years before he is fully integrated in his new community. As others have said, the best you could at the moment is try and find a way to cut down the costs of his calling his girlfriend back home and talk to him to see what his plans are for the future. Also, you have to be careful as you wife may be hit by culture shock. In the "euphoric" phase, people are extremely enthusiastic and are excited about learning a new language. However, when they enter the second "hostile" phase of culture shock, this can quickly change.

I have posted it before, but this BBC piece on culture shock explains it well: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A2848359

[Jumper]

Seems  a few of us have relocated to another country in our young adulthood ,and not known the language.
It can seem at the moment ,to be  forever to adapt, but overall its typically quick in the context of a persons time or life.



Viking its tough for him ,for sure, but he also is old enough to clearly understand.

Set your boundaries accordingly (fairly) and be patient, all indicators are it will work out shortly,since he obviously is trying to contribute within a few weeks of being here.

If the phone is the main thing ,then lay out your  ground rules for it. period.
he pays for anything beyond .
perhaps give him suggestions like skype or as GQ mentioned other VOIP services.

at 21 him ,and his GF, surely know mail.ru has free vid /w voice chat??? or can find alternatives.
Skype isn't the only option there are many.

Limit the computer time to fit the schedule you need to use for work, and make it clear why.


He overall seems a reasonable young man, work with his strengths , and goals,
 his current weaknesses of relocation/homesickness/culture shock..seem temporary in the big picture.

[thompsongunner06]

Advise him and then when he does what he wants dont worry about it. To get US citizenship he will need some basic's to pass,,he needs some night school.

[Al_C]

Greg,

The phone is definitely history.  He works and has his own money, so let him get his own phone.  If he cannot afford a cell phone with a major carrier, there are alternatives, such as Metro PCS or Virgin Pay-As-You-Go.  This will not only lighten your financial load, it will give him some respect for phone time since he gets to see graphically how much it costs.

I would not try too hard to sever his connections to the motherland since that may result in resentment against you.  Just let him understand that communication costs money, and if he wants to play, he has to pay.  In other words, it is time for him to be an adult.

As for work, I would not cut that one yet since it may create a bad blow to his self esteem.  When he gets his green card and can work on the books in an English speaking environment, let him apply and get turned down SOLELY because of his lack of English skills.  When he gets enough doors slammed in his face, he will then find out the hard way just how much of a disservice he he doing to himself by resisting learning the language of his new country.

I know you got your work cut out for you and don't envy your position.  But with the right blend of patience and being a hard ass, you can get this young man set up to be a productive member of American society.

And BTW, if you need a letter translated, let Elena do it.  I am sure she will be happy to do it as a favor to you.

[mies]

Yes, so? It's a personal choice.

Personal choice of Viking to get his step-son disabled or dead while in US Army service? Or personal choice of Viking to get rid of the step-son burden and take his wife's son from her, possibly forever?

I'm sorry, Ecocks. I'm not with you on this one.

[ECOCKS]

Personal choice of Viking to get his step-son disabled or dead while in US Army service? Or personal choice of Viking to get rid of the step-son burden and take his wife's son from her, possibly forever?

I'm sorry, Ecocks. I'm not with you on this one.

Yes, histrionics, politics and drama aside, it is a PERSONAL choice.

[JR]

How much of a hard ass do I need to be?  Hard enough to bounce a quarter off of)))

He's a grown man with a job, he should be paying all of his phone bills. Won't learn English? Tell him his choice is to assimilate or go back. Give him a timeline. Do it in advance, tell him you are going to work on a schedule and when ready will present it to him and ask for his input. Modify if necessary then stick by it. If he doesn't want to become an American then he should go back. He is not a child without a choice in the matter. What is he going to do, live with you forever and not even learn to speak the language?

[Doll]

Yes, histrionics, politics and drama aside, it is a PERSONAL choice.

It will be whose "personal choice"? Sorry, what didn't I get?

[Doll]

 Tell him his choice is to assimilate or go back. Give him a timeline. Do it in advance, tell him you are going to work on a schedule and when ready will present it to him and ask for his input. Modify if necessary then stick by it. If he doesn't want to become an American then he should go back. He is not a child without a choice in the matter. What is he going to do, live with you forever and not even learn to speak the language?

I don't think so, he just can't do it over his mother's head. No way.
Guys, just a question: what would you do if your own son just works and doesn't want to go to college?  Kick him out of the house?
To the OP, as I have a 17 yo at home and my husband and him don't get along: let his mother deal with him. You just set some limits on what you want to set the limits on.
Money? Ok, tell them how much you want. Phone? Talk about it. You want the guy to go to college? Talk to them with no threatening. Why with no threatening? Because the mother is always a mother, no matter what (unless she is an exception).
Let her keep talking to the boy, she doesn't need to be that good in "articulation", they talk same language.
A question: doesn't the person need be the USA citizen to go for the military service?

[ECOCKS]

I don't think so, he just can't do it over his mother's head. No way.
Guys, just a question: what would you do if your own son just works and doesn't want to go to college?  Kick him out of the house?
To the OP, as I have a 17 yo at home and my husband and him don't get along: let his mother deal with him. You just set some limits on what you want to set the limits on.
Money? Ok, tell them how much you want. Phone? Talk about it. You want the guy to go to college? Talk to them with no threatening. Why with no threatening? Because the mother is always a mother, no matter what (unless she is an exception).
Let her keep talking to the boy, she doesn't need to be that good in "articulation", they talk same language.
A question: doesn't the person need be the USA citizen to go for the military service?

If either of my sons had come to Ukraine and acted as described it would have been a problem ESPECIALLY if they were intending to live there permanently, as in seeking citizenship. Then I would have the same questions as Viking has raised about how to get them to self-supporting status and not expecting to be living in my home indefinitely  with me paying the bills. They would have to be learning the language, supporting themselves and figuring out how to live in the country instead of expecting they were entitled to these things by virtue of being my child.

As for the military question, no - citizenship is not required for enlistment. If he has permanent residence/green card, passes the tests and meets the appropriate physical fitness and health requirements, he is good to go. A wonderful choice for someone who wishes to return something to their new homeland in appreciation of the opportunities and freedoms they enjoy. Not a bad choice for someone who needs a job which will let them save some money, pick up some maturity and job skills which will stand them in good stead in the future. Also a very good choice for those who don't understand they have to learn to be responsible for themselves and their actions.

[Doll]

If either of my sons had come to Ukraine and acted as described it would have been a problem ESPECIALLY if they were intending to live there permanently, as in seeking citizenship.

No, your sons, Americans, born here and living with you. What would you do if your own boy just works and does not want to go to college? Beat him, kick him out of the house? What?
Make the 21 yo do what?

it would have been a problem ESPECIALLY

Which you solve how?

[Doll]

In other words, you guys are ok if your wife lives in your house "indefinitely" with "you paying the bills"?
I certainly understand that a 21yo is an adult, then the OP did sign the affidavit of support.
On one hand, on  the other hand.
I also would think that the boy is exhausted  after work, he is homesick, he left his love behind. How long has he been here? 5 years, 3 years?

Yes, it is a tough situation, so let the mother resolve it.

[ECOCKS]

No, your sons, Americans, born here and living with you. What would you do if your own boy just works and does not want to go to college? Beat him, kick him out of the house? What?
Make the 21 yo do what?Which you solve how?

Sorry, I was trying to mirror Viking's situation in my response.

No Doll, my sons understood clearly that they were expected to get to work, fully supporting themselves, if they chose not to go to college or some other occupational/vocational training. While they are always welcome in my home, it would take extraordinary circumstances (injury, illness, etc.) for them to completely return to the home as children rather than as young men.

Physically, they would have been thrown out if that need had arisen and they were simply too lazy to work or too poorly disciplined to pay their expenses. They weren't raised that way so it never came up.

My understanding of Viking's situation is that the boy does not work at a level where he can pay his own bills and is not making an effort to learn how to live, work and pay his way in his new culture.

[Doll]

My understanding of Viking's situation is that the boy does not work at a level where he can pay his own bills and is not making an effort to learn how to live, work and pay his way in his new culture.

I got your point. Mine is that after 7 weeks in a "foreign" country to work at a level "to pay all the bills" is next to impossible. The restrictions on the expenses though can be set. Same is with any RW who married AM.