Review/Critique/Roast of HRB/RLM

[Gator]

In case you don't know it TomT was paid to go and visit HRB and become a shrill for them.  He comes slinking around here every now and then and then disappears again.

IMO TomT  is not sinuous and was forthright about his visit and association.   As a ballroom dancer he does not slink.     
 
I do not know if I would have had the same conclusions as TomT; then again I did not see what I saw.  The important point is that a serious newbie should not use agencies with such business models.  If one wants to have a cyberspace GFE with a hot babe, then go for it, recognizing that penetration is not on the menu. 

[TomT]

BB,
 
1) You presume correctly, I know more about Jeff than is included in your link. He posted for a while under the moniker, "Percolator," and I was given access to the complete complaint file. The fellow cherry-picked his messages so that he would not not show himself in bad light. I have neither met him in person nor spoken to him, however.
 
2) To a teenager, a guy in his thirties is an old coot.
 
3) I wasn't taking a shot at you. My comment was about referencing Jim's List as evidence. Except in special cases of statutory confidentiality, witnesses must be identified. To the best of my knowledge, "Jim" was anonymous.
 
4) This topic has become long of tooth for me so I will summarize my position before slinking away: a service provider is not required to do whatever clients imagine that they should do; it is only required to do what is contractually stipulated. That's the law, whether anybody likes it or not.

5) HRB's business model is not my cup of tea. Nonetheless, I found many sincere women on their database who would probably make some lucky guy very happy. From what I've seen, most men bring failure upon themselves and then try to shift the blame elsewhere. That approach is rarely curative. 
 
 
 

[Muzh]

5) HRB's business model is not my cup of tea. Nonetheless, I found many sincere women on their database who would probably make some lucky guy very happy. From what I've seen, most men bring failure upon themselves and then try to shift the blame elsewhere. That approach is rarely curative.

+1

[Faux Pas]

5) HRB's business model is not my cup of tea. Nonetheless, I found many sincere women on their database who would probably make some lucky guy very happy. From what I've seen, most men bring failure upon themselves and then try to shift the blame elsewhere. That approach is rarely curative.

Most sites of that particular business model have some sincere women. One of the problems for men looking at those sites are that they are not generally the women offered up and badgering for the old coots to webcam with them. IMO, most of the "sincere" women cannot be reached until one has paid enough cash to receive the higher plateau services.


HRB, AWEB and the rest IMHO, are a detour for any sincere men and an outlet for any fantasy dwellers. I would stop short of calling these agencies scams but, would not hesitate to call them the shams that they are.


Tom, you remain a bit of a mystery to me. You seem like a good guy as evidenced by some good advice I've seen you give out. Yet, your continuing love affair with HRB is soiling your good advice. You had a nice vacation on HRB's dime, there is no way you can offer an unbiased opinion on HRB. I still contend you and Andrewfi gave up that ability when you partook of the goodies.


You seem to be attacking the messenger here with boozebaron. Percolator may or may not be an old sleeze bag. Who cares? HRB makes promises and can't deliver, why do you defend that?

[Gator]

Yet, your continuing love affair with HRB is soiling your good advice. You had a nice vacation on HRB's dime, there is no way you can offer an unbiased opinion on HRB. I still contend you and Andrewfi gave up that ability when you partook of the goodies.

I don't see where TomT has given a blanket approval of HRB or done anything suggesting a "....continuing love affair with HRB."   His following points speak volumes to me: 
 
"4).... a service provider is not required to do whatever clients imagine that they should do; it is only required to do what is contractually stipulated. That's the law, whether anybody likes it or not.
 
5)  ....From what I've seen, most men bring failure upon themselves and then try to shift the blame elsewhere...."
 
We know how HRB works.  I assert a reasonable man would avoid them, even with pretty girls in enticing photos telling me sweet words.
 
Perhaps TomT is akin to the Casey Anthony jury.  He compared evidence against what the law stipulates as necessary to determine guilt and ignored grey or ambiguous areas.

[TomT]

Tom, you remain a bit of a mystery to me. You seem like a good guy as evidenced by some good advice I've seen you give out. Yet, your continuing love affair with HRB is soiling your good advice. You had a nice vacation on HRB's dime, there is no way you can offer an unbiased opinion on HRB. I still contend you and Andrewfi gave up that ability when you partook of the goodies.

Perhaps one of HRB's detractors should have gone in my stead. Then he could have come back and aired his stubborn preconceptions. In the end, if someone agrees with me, I am very astute. If not, I am a shill. C'est la vie!

[BC]

If one strives for truth in advertising try fubar.com

[Faux Pas]

I don't see where TomT has given a blanket approval of HRB or done anything suggesting a "....continuing love affair with HRB."   His following points speak volumes to me: 
 

Throughout this thread Tom has spoken highly favorable of HRB with caveat emptor as his defense. I agree with that to a point but, only a point. HRB and the rest's whole model and marketing scheme is "YES, you too can have a lovely hottie if you sign up and pay". I'm not going to get into the "fine print" contractual limits because no where does HRB get into that until someone feels they have been fleeced. Then, it's caveat emptor and you should have read the bottom line.  Or, you old perverted bastid, you should have known these 19 year old hottie don't want an old man, defense. That's bullshit.


There's nothing honest with these people and they are all lying to their customers until the customer feels they've been screwed and "then" the HRB's of the world come clean with "it's in the agreement you agreed to". The agency shouldn't get to play both sides against the middle just because they have an affinity for lying. When the facts of the matter is from the agencies standpoint, it's all true and all well and good, until you get tired of paying us money. No, the agencies get no pass there IMHO.


 

We know how HRB works. I assert a reasonable man would avoid them, even with pretty girls in enticing photos telling me sweet words.

Yes Gator we do. You, Tom, I and most who half ass pay attention to whats being posted on the forum. Most reasonable men would that had an inkling of an idea would too. Unfortunately, many do not. Many do not find the RWDs of the net to receive warning of whats to come. Still, I do not give like agencies a free pass for that. They're shams who's only motivated to separate fools from their money.

Perhaps TomT is akin to the Casey Anthony jury.  He compared evidence against what the law stipulates as necessary to determine guilt and ignored grey or ambiguous areas.

Maybe you believe Tom had complete and unfettered access to HRB's operation and 'maybe' he did. Who's to know? Tom might believe he did. I don't believe he did. Who does such a thing especially, in this particular business?If I was CEO, no way I would do such a thing. I do believe he let Tom see what CEO wanted him to see.


HRB gets a bad rap, largely deserved from their practices and reputation by the end user on these forums.


I see Tom assigning the blame to the stupid old, bald, fat guy with a credit card. The old, fat guy didn't do it alone.

[Faux Pas]

Perhaps one of HRB's detractors should have gone in my stead. Then he could have come back and aired his stubborn preconceptions. In the end, if someone agrees with me, I am very astute. If not, I am a shill. C'est la vie!

Make no mistake here Tom, I'm not saying you did anything wrong. If I were offered an all expense paid trip to Florida, I likely would have taken it as well. I'm glad you had a good time. What can't be over looked are the multitudes of guys that come to the forums crying in their beers. Yes, the lion share of the blame is theirs but, not all of it. Thats what I don't understand about you, you are defending HRB whether you want to admit it or not. Maybe if you prefaced your advice or remarks concerning HRB or the like with " I did accept a free trip from HRB" might make it more palatable but, unlikely. 

[Rubicon]

Throughout this thread Tom has spoken highly favorable of HRB with caveat emptor as his defense. I agree with that to a point but, only a point. HRB and the rest's whole model and marketing scheme is "YES, you too can have a lovely hottie if you sign up and pay". I'm not going to get into the "fine print" contractual limits because no where does HRB get into that until someone feels they have been fleeced. Then, it's caveat emptor and you should have read the bottom line.  Or, you old perverted bastid, you should have known these 19 year old hottie don't want an old man, defense. That's bullshit.


There's nothing honest with these people and they are all lying to their customers until the customer feels they've been screwed and "then" the HRB's of the world come clean with "it's in the agreement you agreed to". The agency shouldn't get to play both sides against the middle just because they have an affinity for lying. When the facts of the matter is from the agencies standpoint, it's all true and all well and good, until you get tired of paying us money. No, the agencies get no pass there IMHO.


 
Yes Gator we do. You, Tom, I and most who half ass pay attention to whats being posted on the forum. Most reasonable men would that had an inkling of an idea would too. Unfortunately, many do not. Many do not find the RWDs of the net to receive warning of whats to come. Still, I do not give like agencies a free pass for that. They're shams who's only motivated to separate fools from their money.


Maybe you believe Tom had complete and unfettered access to HRB's operation and 'maybe' he did. Who's to know? Tom might believe he did. I don't believe he did. Who does such a thing especially, in this particular business?If I was CEO, no way I would do such a thing. I do believe he let Tom see what CEO wanted him to see.


HRB gets a bad rap, largely deserved from their practices and reputation by the end user on these forums.


I see Tom assigning the blame to the stupid old, bald, fat guy with a credit card. The old, fat guy didn't do it alone.

Most excellent post Faux Pas.  I suspect that Neo is a young good looking somewhat wealthy guy, or at least a guy with a very good job.  I sincerely doubt that he would have much better luck with HRB than the old, bald fat guys do.

[Misha]

Yes, the lion share of the blame is theirs but, not all of it.

Yes, HRB is plenty happy to take their money    A good company does not have to rely on fine print

[Rubicon]

Yes, HRB is plenty happy to take their money    A good company does not have to rely on fine print

Clearly HRB is counting on the fact that Sales Puffing is not against the law, and that a new sucker is born every minute so why should they do anything but laugh all the way to the large bank in Switzerland??

[Misha]

Clearly HRB is counting on the fact that Sales Puffing is not against the law, and that a new sucker is born every minute so why should they do anything but laugh all the way to the large bank in Switzerland??

True, but just because something is legal, does not make it right either.

[Rubicon]

True, but just because something is legal, does not make it right either.

We are definitely in agreement about that!!  Read my upthread response to Manny and TomT last night for which a mod told me to cool it!!  I have no empathy for corps like HRB whatsoever, I just prefer to think of them in humorous ways, otherwise I would just get really frustrated that it seems nothing is going to change.

[Boethius]

You are free to express your opinion.   However, you can do so in a productive manner.  The conversation was becoming about you, Tom, and Manny, not HRB.

[GQBlues]

...I see Tom assigning the blame to the stupid old, bald, fat guy with a credit card. The old, fat guy didn't do it alone.

So they're not only stupid, old, fat, balding dudes...but likely helpless, too   
 
I'm still trying to determine if the point of this thread/debate is to come up with a substitute activity for the obvious large majority of these ball-scratching lot who actually and purposely subscribe to HRB for exactly the type of available service few are trying to keep them from....
 
 

[Faux Pas]

So they're not only stupid, old, fat, balding dudes...but likely helpless, too   
 
I'm still trying to determine if the point of this thread/debate is to come up with a substitute activity for the obvious large majority of these ball-scratching lot who actually and purposely subscribe to HRB for exactly the type of available service few are trying to keep them from....

There are various aspects of the the MOB business that make me feel the need to scrub down just from talking about it. HRB and the ilk are one of them. I have no sympathy for these guys living in a fantasy and willing to "cha-ching" the registers at those pay by the letter and cam the girls agencies. None. I do have a degree of sympathy for the honest guys that gets caught into the vacuum these agencies create. They don't know any better and learn a tough lesson

[shakespear]

I'm still trying to determine if the point of this thread/debate is to come up with a substitute activity for the obvious large majority of these ball-scratching lot who actually and purposely subscribe to HRB for exactly the type of available service few are trying to keep them from.... 

+1
 
Caveat Emptor.  A fool and his money are soon parted.  Etc, Etc, Etc.

[TomT]

FP.


Don't get carried away; I didn't write anything about bald or fat. I am a proponent of people making sensible decisions and taking responsibility for their actions, that's all. It doesn't make any difference whether someone is buying a house, a car, a television set or a MOB (hyperbole). Guys are NOT making sensible decisions if they buy products that are unsuitable for them and they don't have the means to maintain them. Unfortunately, there is far too much of this going around. IMBs could enforce access based on an age-gap formula. Wouldn't that go over big?

[Gator]

There are various aspects of the the MOB business that make me feel the need to scrub down just from talking about it.

     Actually I shouldn't laugh because it is true.   Faux,  I agree with you that HRB is to be avoided like the plague.  My fuzzy recall of the thread was that  it suggested HRB was not as bad as its horrible reputation and that the CEO was taking strides to improve.  Wasn't it his intention to revisit and tell us about his intitiatives to improve?  Where is the CEO?  Has HRB improved? 
 
I recall Shadow commenting something about if the trash (male and female) were removed, there would not be enough business activity for HRB to be profitable.  I found that very enlightening although not encouraging.  It is as if the clientele at HRB deserve what they get.
 
I do find TomT being somewhat coy, yet he probably is staying within strict black and white standards.   

[Faux Pas]

FP.


Don't get carried away; I didn't write anything about bald or fat. I am a proponent of people making sensible decisions and taking responsibility for their actions, that's all. It doesn't make any difference whether someone is buying a house, a car, a television set or a MOB (hyperbole). Guys are NOT making sensible decisions if they buy products that are unsuitable for them and they don't have the means to maintain them. Unfortunately, there is far too much of this going around. IMBs could enforce access based on an age-gap formula. Wouldn't that go over big?

Tom,


You've misjudged me, I'm not carried away. Normally, in a real time setting and in general on the forum I just reply to the questions of HRB and the like as in "don't do it". They're bad news and if you're feeling lucky go for it. I have no crusade to stop or deter customers their way. I do see them as a double negative in an already questionable arena. I would have to be asked for an explanation on IMBs before I would offer one up.  Your responses to the HRB posts while perhaps not positive completely, certainly wouldn't be construed as negative either. That is misleading to some whom may be looking and not asking. Almost as if you associate HRB as positive as long as one practices self restraint. My only contention is, they are getting lied to and I do not see that as their fault.

[shakespear]

In case you don't know it TomT was paid to go and visit HRB and become a shrill for them. 

I don't believe this is a true statement. 
 
I believe TomT and his wife may well have had their expenses paid for the trip to visit the corporate office of HRB but I'm quite sure he was not paid any fee for compiling and publishing his observations about their business model. 
 
The more you read TomT's posts the more you understand that what he DOESN'T say is sometimes more important than what he DOES say. . . . . . . . . .

[Faux Pas]

     Actually I shouldn't laugh because it is true.   Faux,  I agree with you that HRB is to be avoided like the plague.  My fuzzy recall of the thread was that  it suggested HRB was not as bad as its horrible reputation and that the CEO was taking strides to improve.  Wasn't it his intention to revisit and tell us about his intitiatives to improve?  Where is the CEO?  Has HRB improved? 
 
I recall Shadow commenting something about if the trash (male and female) were removed, there would not be enough business activity for HRB to be profitable.  I found that very enlightening although not encouraging.  It is as if the clientele at HRB deserve what they get.
 
I do find TomT being somewhat coy, yet he probably is staying within strict black and white standards.

Like shadow, I do believe that. However, that doesn't give them a free pass for what basically amounts to cheating their customers. Bait and switch, undelivered promises.


There's money in it or they wouldn't be doing it. It's not illegal and some would argue it's not immoral. It doesn't make it right or alright. Whether it is acceptable I suppose would depend on ones individual compass. I'm okay with that but, I wouldn't speak of them in a favorable light. 

[GQBlues]

....I do have a degree of sympathy for the honest guys that gets caught into the vacuum these agencies create. They don't know any better and learn a tough lesson

I do too FP, but let's keep this more on the side of reality without having to drown it out into some idealistic smokescreen. Who exactly are we talking about?
 
If an average middle-aged Lothario whose social extent is turn his computer on to get his jollies off and have aspirations of getting a hot young dev in her early 20s, who also happen to send pictures with huge tits, and profess enduring love and lust for as long as his Visa will allow him to, he may be clueless to what *lays* in front of him, but if the first sight of the obvious isn't enough for him to understand something's just NOT right, then what makes you *think* what you have to tell him is ever going to change his mind?
 
Methinks in this side of the business, it is far likely there are MORE dirty old men ringing the registers than there are Honest Dans ringing the wedding bells. IMHO.
 

[Turboguy]

The more you read TomT's posts the more you understand that what he DOESN'T say is sometimes more important than what he DOES say. . . . . . . . . .

Sometimes what you do say can get you into more trouble than what you don't say.  Of course sometimes what you don't say can get you into a lot of hot water too.