The dangers of building an argument on misinformation

[TomT]

I'd agree to that.

Can we also agree that recommending a site (that you never even logged into once where you spend over $1000 just to get the email of an agency is ridiculous?

In oder to communicate with women, my hosts created a test profile for me (TomTat). Initially, I was unaware that 'my' profile was indistinguishable from that of Western clients. When I discovered this, I revised it so that I would not be mistaken for a wife-seeker:

"I am not here to date and I am not available for marriage. I am a guest of the owner and I am here to study the site operation."

I logged in many times so that I could get the feel of the system and ask the women their opinions about a wide range of topics. Not surprisingly, one familiar motif was that they were very disappointed with the men to whom they were exposed.

It's been very amusing to sit here and read your rants about what I do or do not do. I didn't set you straight earlier because I wanted you to dig your hole deeper and deeper and give it time to fill up with your excretions. Somehow, I doubt that you appreciate my sense of humor but bon appetit in any case!

 

[Chelseaboy]

Yes,i've heard a few women on HRB tell me that many men on that site are not serious,and a lot of the men only want to talk about sex.This is in response to me asking if they've met anyone on the site they like.
Conversely though,these same women spend hours every day/night online.So,the question remains,why do these women spend so long online,if the men on the site are so bad ?
I can only assume they are paid to do so,if the men are so repulsive.?
Also,as i stated previously,many women ask me to chat, with their initial chat intro having very sexual overtones.I've been clearly told by some women on the site,they enjoy talking about sex.Maybe this gives some men the impression that all the women on the site are sex chatters ?
I'd say a lot of the men talk about sex,because the women are encouraging them to do so.
You've already seen a sample of the letters Facetrock and myself received from some of these women.
This is not misinformation,this is from a man who's actually using the site,with a real profile,and photo's...namely me,so your opening heading is somewhat flawed.I would say there are some dubious men on the site,from what i've been told,and i'm not defending them at all,but there are as many dubious women there too.

[tim 360]

In oder to communicate with women, my hosts created a test profile for me (TomTat). Initially, I was unaware that 'my' profile was indistinguishable from that of Western clients. When I discovered this, I revised it so that I would not be mistaken for a wife-seeker:

"I am not here to date and I am not available for marriage. I am a guest of the owner and I am here to study the site operation."

I logged in many times so that I could get the feel of the system and ask the women their opinions about a wide range of topics. Not surprisingly, one familiar motif was that they were very disappointed with the men to whom they were exposed. I

t's been very amusing to sit here and read your rants about what I do or do not do. I didn't set you straight earlier because I wanted you to dig your hole deeper and deeper and give it time to fill up with your excretions. Somehow, I doubt that you appreciate my sense of humor but bon appetit in any case!

 

If they are so disappointed with the quality on men on HRB--just what are these women doing there?  This makes zero sense at all.  Why would they waste their time...day after day, night after night, unless they are being recompensed in some way.   Or maybe these women just like to waste their time and chat to disappointing men HRB provides or these beauties have nothing else to do.

What else did your investigation reveal?  Is there a detailed report or just casual observations?  Could you post it.

TomT now was this in a real time Live Direct Video Telephony Chat like Skype?  Or was this like an ICQ typed chat format?  With just a small streaming video head shot of the girl onscreen outside a chatbox?

[wicheese]

one familiar motif was that they were very disappointed with the men to whom they were exposed.

Not exclusive to FSUW, as I talked to more than a few women in the USA who have used online sites and they have said the same thing.  But, as other posters have mentioned, does not the marketing of skin (based on the types of photos in many profiles, suggestive avatars, and sexually suggestive contents of the SPAM bring in a higher percentage of men who are a little off in that area?  If so, then I can imagine that the overall opinion formed by the women doing the chatting is one of essentially being turned-off.

[GQBlues]

If so, then I can imagine that the overall opinion formed by the women doing the chatting is one of essentially being turned-off.

..and that's where the bodies lie. Who's on first base?

In the end, the debate is akin to the bear blaming the bee for eating all the honey.

[Gylden]

I wonder if it is possible to find an icon of "making a mountain out of a mole hill"??

Anyone clever enough to see what is going on here, well to be straight forward  can just ......

Not much hope for all of the other, sorry to say.

[TomT]

Some of your points are reasonable but this thread is more about Jooky than about HRB's clients. (I have resized and emboldened portions of my original post for clarity.)

***Perhaps a moderator will be so kind as to move the posts containing reasonable questions to the HRB roast thread.***

[Gator]

Some of your points are reasonable but this thread is more about Jooky than about HRB's clients. (I have resized and emboldened portions of my original post for clarity.)

Are you talking about whether or not you have logged in?  First, the manner you logged in differs from Joe Sixpack logging in.  Second, that is such a trivial point compared to to all the bull$hit thrown about on the pro-HRB side.

From my perspective, Jooky is at worst 95% forthright, 5% distortion. 
In contrast, those defending HRB are at best 33% forthright, 33% distortion, 33% diversion. 

Jooky has been focused and enlightening, enough to remove a lot of the lipstick placed on the pig.  I personally feel duped in  giving some of the pro-HRB stance the benefit of the doubt.

Some of the examples used to defend HRB are like putting a racing stripe on a turd - at the end of the day, it's still a turd.  Not my words but certainly applicable.

The motivation of the pro-HRB crowd is inexplicable other than for CEO.   

[Ade]

The motivation of the pro-HRB crowd is inexplicable other than for CEO.   

+1.  :noidea:

Well, okay, I have a few ideas but none of them are very flattering.

[tim 360]

Are you talking about whether or not you have logged in?  First, the manner you logged in differs from Joe Sixpack logging in.  Second, that is such a trivial point compared to to all the bull$hit thrown about on the pro-HRB side.

From my perspective, Jooky is at worst 95% forthright, 5% distortion. 
In contrast, those defending HRB are at best 33% forthright, 33% distortion, 33% diversion. 

Jooky has been focused and enlightening, enough to remove a lot of the lipstick placed on the pig.  I personally feel duped in  giving some of the pro-HRB stance the benefit of the doubt.

Some of the examples used to defend HRB are like putting a racing stripe on a turd - at the end of the day, it's still a turd.  Not my words but certainly applicable.

+1.  They just want to shut Jooky up and try to discredit him and paint that pig of theirs.  Attack the messenger.  I've seen alot of shlit on RWD--but this whole HRB whitewash BS is the one worst I can recall.

[GQBlues]

Hhhhmmm, I thought the darn topic was up for debate? One week and 16 pages of exchanges to just shut Jooky up?

[TomT]

Not to worry, I have known about the impossibility of shutting Jooky up for many moons.

[GQBlues]

Well I don't remember reading here or on RWG that anyone ever recommended HRB or AWeb that I am aware of. I don't read RUA for the same reason I never read RWD before either while the RWG was still in circulation.

But to imply participating in an open debate titled: 'Review/Critique/Roast HRB/RLM' opposite of Jooky's points as somehow a show of some sinister need to recommend HRB, that to me is the full-lipped pig.

If opposing views were offerred, at least from me, because it was repeatedly requested from the exchanges...shutting 'Jooky up' was hardly the intent.

add: If that thread/topic was a Trojan horse for some other axe that required grinding, feel free to excuse me from it.

[TomT]

Yes,i've heard a few women on HRB tell me that many men on that site are not serious,and a lot of the men only want to talk about sex.This is in response to me asking if they've met anyone on the site they like.
Conversely though,these same women spend hours every day/night online.So,the question remains,why do these women spend so long online,if the men on the site are so bad ?
I can only assume they are paid to do so,if the men are so repulsive.?
Also,as i stated previously,many women ask me to chat, with their initial chat intro having very sexual overtones.I've been clearly told by some women on the site,they enjoy talking about sex.Maybe this gives some men the impression that all the women on the site are sex chatters ?
I'd say a lot of the men talk about sex,because the women are encouraging them to do so.
You've already seen a sample of the letters Facetrock and myself received from some of these women.
This is not misinformation,this is from a man who's actually using the site,with a real profile,and photo's...namely me,so your opening heading is somewhat flawed.I would say there are some dubious men on the site,from what i've been told,and i'm not defending them at all,but there are as many dubious women there too.

.

It's a given that there are spammers in our inboxes; the only unknown is the percentage. Sex chat, in and of itself, proves nothing, though. It's fair to say that most FSU girls probably won't initiate it but the rest of them are wild cards. As for who initiates what, some guys jump right into sexual topics in their letters of introduction and, no doubt, some of the girls do the same. (I don't know about the latter because I didn't open them.)

One anecdotal observation that I can make was that the volume of incoming mail dropped dramatically after I identified myself as being unavailable for marriage. Obviously, the ones who still write either didn't read my words or didn't understand my words; I would guess that the latter is more often the case.

It's oft been written that the man should take the first step. If guys would do that, they would save themselves a lot of grief.

[TomT]

If they are so disappointed with the quality on men on HRB--just what are these women doing there?  This makes zero sense at all.  Why would they waste their time...day after day, night after night, unless they are being recompensed in some way.  Or maybe these women just like to waste their time and chat to disappointing men HRB provides or these beauties have nothing else to do.

What else did your investigation reveal?  Is there a detailed report or just casual observations?  Could you post it.

TomT now was this in a real time Live Direct Video Telephony Chat like Skype?  Or was this like an ICQ typed chat format?  With just a small streaming video head shot of the girl onscreen outside a chatbox?

Even in the absence of copyright issues, it would take a lot of effort to move it all over here. Perhaps you might consider visiting the other forum and viewing the HRB topics there.

I used the video chat feature briefly with assistance from the video hostess. The girl smiled and laughed exactly on cue, so it seemed pretty real time to me. If you ring the video hostess, you can see for yourself. (It's the same system for all.)

[TomT]

Not exclusive to FSUW, as I talked to more than a few women in the USA who have used online sites and they have said the same thing.  But, as other posters have mentioned, does not the marketing of skin (based on the types of photos in many profiles, suggestive avatars, and sexually suggestive contents of the SPAM bring in a higher percentage of men who are a little off in that area?  If so, then I can imagine that the overall opinion formed by the women doing the chatting is one of essentially being turned-off.

Have you seen the Victoria's Secret commercials?

[TomT]

Well I don't remember reading here or on RWG that anyone ever recommended HRB or AWeb that I am aware of.

How many of them, do you suppose, visited their offices?

There some posible conclusions that one might draw from the above. One is that the visitor has been bought. Another is that the rest of you don't know *snip*. Since facing up to one's ignorance is very difficult for most people, they usually take the default position.

[GQBlues]

How many of them, do you suppose, visited their offices?

I know of only one (AWeb). He was actually infamously popular back in the time.....

[TomT]

I missed that episode. What was his nickname?

[GQBlues]

I was held in strict confidentiality, TomT. Sorry...

[facetrock]

  So the  women on HRB complain about the quality of men that contact them. Well welcome to the internet. Women have been bitching about men since the beginning of time in every corner of the world. Men have been bitching about women too. If thats supposed to be some kind of excuse its as lame as all the rest of the excuses put up by the pro HRB crowd.  
  Tom you got big balls defending HRB. Not an easy task.

[Jumper]

TomT-

1. you presented yourself basically  as investigating ,and as associated with management?
LOL yes!  that gets right to the truth with ANY RW that might be working..or any manger that might have something to say..too funny.


2. I do not doubt the claims by RW there,  that most of the men are not sincere, adimtedly married ,or other.
it makes  the agency money either way..
 I don't doubt its the bulk of the business.


You admitedly were never a regular member,since you changed your profile almost immediately.

Jooky has been completely accurate in the portrayal of what a sincere man will expect when joining.

The grief he has gotten here is unfounded and silly.
It's come almost entirely from those that were never members there with no first hand experience, you included.
 
Your experiences with investigating  HRB , as a man not looking for a RW,,
are going to be different, than those here that are, or where ,regular members.
 
Which investigative method should we suppose is  is more valid?
 
 

[TomT]

 So the  women on HRB complain about the quality of men that contact them. Well welcome to the internet. Women have been bitching about men since the beginning of time in every corner of the world. Men have been bitching about women too. If thats supposed to be some kind of excuse its as lame as all the rest of the excuses put up by the pro HRB crowd.  
  Tom you got big balls defending HRB. Not an easy task.

I neither stated nor believe that HRB is any better or any worse because of the reviews that a handful of women gave their correspondents. I only mention it because it was interesting that almost all of them brought it up without being asked. In retrospect, I probably shouldn't have mentioned it in this threat because it is off topic and is distracting.

Thanks for noticing my parts. No doubt, you meant it in the nicest possible way.

 

[TomT]

TomT-

1. you presented yourself basically  as investigating ,and as associated with management?
LOL yes!  that gets right to the truth with ANY RW that might be working..or any manger that might have something to say..too funny.


2. I do not doubt the claims by RW there,  that most of the men are not sincere, adimtedly married ,or other.
it makes  the agency money either way..
 I don't doubt its the bulk of the business.


You admitedly were never a regular member,since you changed your profile almost immediately.

Jooky has been completely accurate in the portrayal of what a sincere man will expect when joining.

The grief he has gotten here is unfounded and silly.
It's come almost entirely from those that were never members there with no first hand experience, you included.
 
Your experiences with investigating  HRB , as a man not looking for a RW,,
are going to be different, than those here that are, or where ,regular members.
 
Which investigative method should we suppose is  is more valid?
 
 

1) I love the word "basically" almost as much as "virtually" because it gives the speaker/writer license to lie with deniability. In any case, you don't give me any credit for being able to compare the stories of various people and to check for discrepancies. Even a fool knows that the truth is easy to remember because it's static but lies are difficult to remember because they need constant finessing to make them fit unalterable facts.

2) We seem to be in lockstep on this item.

3) Correct, I was an irregular, non-paying member (and still am). I have the same privileges as everyone else, though. If I wanted to chat about chocolate and sex, I could have.

4) Jooky was completely inaccurate in his claim that I never logged in once, and he got some mileage out of it. The importance of the logins is minor but the global issue is that he fills in the blanks with anything that serves his agenda. It isn't the only example; it was easiest target.

5) Poor Jooky! In spite of his reasonableness, everyone picks on him so. It probably doesn't have anything to do with his giving as good as he gets, correct?

6) My experiences may be different but, nonetheless, I spent approximately sixty hours in those offices and you did not.

7) I love rhetorical questions, also, because they give me license to be as snarky as I wannabe. You should judge validity by your preconceptions and your prejudices, of course. What else?

[facetrock]

  Tom, why dont you just go to HRB and toss up a profile. You will then have first hand experience with the flood of young hotties begging you for a chat session. I think then you could put up a more informed arguement. Dont worry about hurting the young hotties feelings because your really not looking. They will survive