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Author Topic: Ukrainian Academic transcript  (Read 28317 times)

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Offline Wayne

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Ukrainian Academic transcript
« on: December 22, 2010, 02:28:02 PM »
These questions are for Ukrainian women who attended college or university in Ukraine and later tranferred to a USA institution.

1.  Do you know what I mean by adademic transcript?

2.  Is there a different name for this type of document, such as Cumulative Record File, Transcript of Records, record issued by student registrar or something else?

3.  Does your document contain the flollowing:  semesters and years, courses/classes taken, number of hours, credit for each course, total credits, grand total of credits, grades, general average grade, explanation of abbreviations showing whether courses were successfully completed, dropped, or repeated?

4.  Did you get this document translated in Ukraine or USA?

5.  Can anyone scan--with certain information blocked off--the document as an example for others?
6.  What was the procedure, cost, difficulty and time frame for obtaining this documtnt?



Offline Lily

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Re: Ukrainian Academic transcript
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2010, 06:49:27 PM »
Yes of course Wayne :)  This document is actually an insert into the Diploma, and makes a part of it. Often it shows a remark that it is not valid without a diploma. This makes it complicated, if not impossible at all, to order an university transcript, what is often requested by North American universities when there is about using some of available credentials towards a U.S. or Canadian degree.

In details:

1. An academic transcript is a Diploma insert, in Russian: вкладыш к диплому.

2. See above. Sometimes however, it may be possible to order an Archive List of Subjects Taken (Архивная Справка) that also lists all the classes taken, hours spend in class and total number of hours, and marks earned at each class. At the same time, in the FSU universities, you never see any class ranking. This is not known there at all. The Архивная Справка may even me beneficial in the respect that it can be repeatedly ordered from the university, while the insert is given once and forever. As wrote earlier, this is an inherent part of the diploma. Indeed, the good old USSR universities, continued further in Russia and Ukraine, would not even think of the fact that in XXI century their graduates will continue in the U.S. schools which will request to see their official transcripts! They won't issue them twice!

3. The document contains: years of entrance and graduation; classes and courses taken, numbers of hours spent at each class, and the marks. There are, however, no such things as 'credits', general average grades or class rankings. Additionally, the same insert contains marks about the State Examinations for professions such as lawyers, name of the state exams and marks earned at the State qualification exams.

4. All translations are highly advisable to be done in the country where they should be used. In particular, by the U.S. or Canadian sworn translators.

5. Sure I can send you mine as an example. I am a proud owner of a collection of them :) ;) PM me with your email.

6. Oh, Holy Moly, that's the most difficult part of the story. As I wrote in item 1, the inserts are issued once, in one copy that supplements the Diploma, and forever, and are invalid without a diploma. When I phoned one of the universities that I graduated in 1998, they told me that as soon as it is part of my Diploma, they cannot issue it repeatedly, and no way they could mail it to a Canadian organization for assessment :(, as the State University is by State Rules not supposed to do anything like that :( They understand however that in case I need a duplicate, it may be issued to me in case I happen to lose, or occasionally destroy the original. In which case I should give a respectful public announcement that my Diploma Insert was lost, and then file an appropriate police report. Then they would issue me a duplicate. Duh!

At the same time, it may depend on a particular university. Some are really internationally versed; but again, no one would issue another insert unless people go the way I described. They may envelop you a notarized copy of the insert, if you want it and if the American school accepts it in this way.

The Law Society of Upper Canada is by far one of the strictest bodies which wanted to see the official transcripts only. Here is what I wrote to them explaining my situation with the transcripts:

" My circumstances are that I cannot obtain my official transcripts from the University in Russian Federation where I did a part of my legal education. Other than that, I cannot provide an official Certificate of Call for Admission, or Letter of Good Standing along with official Certificate of Marks for the examinations from Russian Federation as part of my NCA applications. The reasons are explained below.

1.     Universities from Russian Federation do not issue original transcripts more than once at graduation.

In 1998, I graduated as Lawyer from the *** State University in Russian Federation. Russian regulations on education stipulate that upon graduation, a specialist receives a Diploma and an attached Transcript which outlines classes and hours spent for every class. The Transcript is henceforth an inseparable part of the Diploma. More than that, the Transcript specifically contains a remark that it is not valid without the Diploma. Therefore, my Russian University cannot repeatedly issue an official copy of the Transcript, as by regulations; there is only one original copy which is issued with the Diploma at the time of qualification. This is the reason why I cannot provide NCA with an official copy of my Transcript that is issued by Russian Universities.


My original Diplomas and Transcripts issued by *** State University, both for Law and for Management, are currently under legalization with Rosobrnadzor, a governmental body in Russia that is mandated by State with legalizing Russian official documents of education. The legalization process is very time consuming. Now when I am a recent immigrant in Canada, I only have in hand two notarized copies of my Diploma and Transcript, notarized by two different State Notaries at different times, in 2000 and in 2010. Hence, at the time I am not able to provide NCA with any Diploma or Transcript other than these in notarized copies. Please consider my circumstances as exceptional.

2.     A status of Lawyer in Russian Federation is conferred upon passing two State Exams and is shown right in the Transcript. No particular Bar membership is required by regulations.

It is not possible for me to arrange for an official Certificate of Call for Admission, or Letter of Good Standing along with official Certificate of Marks for the examinations, because the Russian jurisdiction prescribes that the law graduates have to take two State Exams upon graduation in order to become fully qualified as lawyers. Only those wishing to specialize as Criminal Defence Lawyers are required to be the members of Kollegia of Advocates, which may play a role similar to that of the Bar in common law jurisdictions. Accordingly, my lawyer’s status is confirmed in the University transcript, which also shows my passed State Exams and obtained marks. Therefore, no extra Bar Admission documents are available for me.

Based on the circumstances described above, may I ask NCA to assess my qualifications based on the notarized copies of my legal education documents, as well as to accept the same as proof that I am qualified to practice law in Russian Federation. "

Also I asked for a personal appointment with the accreditation officers, and outlined this once again in person. As you can see, I even had no originals of my Diplomas in hand, as they are under lengthy apostiling process in Moscow. The Law Society agreed!

Suggest also considering an apostile on the Diplomas before taking them to the U.S. Cannot tell anything about Ukraine in this respect, though.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 07:04:06 PM by Lily »
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Ukrainian Academic transcript
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2010, 08:30:27 PM »
Are you trying to be recognized as a foreign legal consultant, Lily?
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Lily

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Re: Ukrainian Academic transcript
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2010, 08:40:08 PM »
No, because in order to get qualified as FLC, my understanding is that one has to be employed as such. This type of employment would be a rare case here in Toronto.

So far I submitted my credentials for assessment, will see what would they recommend for me in order to pursue a lawyer's license in Canada. If they recommendations will be bearable, I'll explore this way. My U.S. credentials give me a chance for some meaningful outcome. If not them, I wouldn't even try with my Russian degree!
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Ukrainian Academic transcript
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2010, 08:43:46 PM »
You should ask them to assess them for that reason (i.e. - what you are missing to obtain accreditation), not for the purpose of granting you status.  Then, they don't need official transcripts. 

Tell them you want to know what you need to study to be admitted to the bar.  You will need constitutional law and criminal law, at a minimum.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Lily

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Re: Ukrainian Academic transcript
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2010, 08:01:37 AM »
That's exactly what I did Boethius. In February, they will issue the recommendations for me.

They have a very detailed instructions on what documents they can accept and in which forms, including what can be submitted in official form, or in the original form. All definitions are sufficiently provided.

Usually, they recommend between 4 -11 challenge exams, or a course in a Canadian law school.
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Offline Wayne

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Re: Ukrainian Academic transcript
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2010, 08:50:31 AM »
Lily, thank you so much for all the detailed information.  My step-daughter is in the second year of a six year program, so she won't have a diploma when she comes to USA.  We want to have these two years of study transfer towards a B. S. degree here.  The optional document seems like what we should try to get.  Again thanks.

Good luck, Lily, on your persuits in Canada!

Offline mies

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Re: Ukrainian Academic transcript
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2010, 10:41:41 AM »
These questions are for Ukrainian women who attended college or university in Ukraine and later tranferred to a USA institution.

1.  Do you know what I mean by adademic transcript?

2.  Is there a different name for this type of document, such as Cumulative Record File, Transcript of Records, record issued by student registrar or something else?

3.  Does your document contain the flollowing:  semesters and years, courses/classes taken, number of hours, credit for each course, total credits, grand total of credits, grades, general average grade, explanation of abbreviations showing whether courses were successfully completed, dropped, or repeated?

4.  Did you get this document translated in Ukraine or USA?

5.  Can anyone scan--with certain information blocked off--the document as an example for others?
6.  What was the procedure, cost, difficulty and time frame for obtaining this documtnt?





1. Yes. But it does not exist as such in most of Ukrainian institutions.
2. Yes, there is a different name: while student is enrolled - this is called "Залікова книжка", once student graduates - "Додаток до диплому про вищу освіту"
3. These documents contain: course title, number of hours, grade (can be a word-grade of % grade).
The word-grades are self-explanatory: excellent (US "A" grade), good (US "B" grade), satisfactory (passed) (US "C" grade), unsatisfactory (failed) (all other US grades). For some courses grades are awarded only "pass" or "failed" and no further distinction between quality of performance is made.

Number of hours is positively proportional to the number of credits. Therefore via simple mathematical operations it is possible to find number of credits knowing number of course hours.

My school also indicates class ranking for graduates (but not for currently enrolled students). This isn't common for other schools in the country.

4. In Ukraine, in the department of international cooperation of my Ukrainian University.
5. --
6. The document is issued in national language (Ukrainian in Ukraine) by the university. Some universities also offer translation to English, in a different university unit.
Obtaining of copy in national language is free. Certified/notarized translation to English is free for current students or fresh graduates, and costs about 1-2$ per copy for alumni.


Wayne, I have a rather vague recollection that you have asked this question previously, you mentioned your step-daughter was in medical school. I even think that I have left a comment/reply in that thread. Or maybe someone else asked it. You definitely can use her transcripts for admittance to US school, what I am not sure it that the US school will agree to transfer her credits and count them towards her BSc degree. It's always worth trying. But credit hours aren't cheap in USA. You are basically asking the university to miss 2 years worth of tuition in medical school (and that is... 50-70K +?) Of what i've heard good and reputable schools are quite reluctant to do credit transfer from other US schools. You are trying to transfer credits from another country. But try. Maybe you'll be lucky.

This is how official ukrainian document/transcript for my MSc degree looks (a portion of it, the whole document in my case is 6 pages long).
To make it acceptable by US academic institutions - it needs to be converted to the format common for US transcripts. You can do it yourself in Excel spreadsheet, and your daughter can ask department assistant to verify it (sign and stamp with official university/department stamp).
All the missing information (number of credits, grade % etc) can be obtained from her department, she can do it. If such service does not exist as standardized procedure - she can still get it signed by department administrative assistant for a small individual "fee"/bribe. The amount of the "fee" will depend on the city and school. Can be anything from $5 to $50.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 11:35:48 AM by mies »

Offline Wayne

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Re: Ukrainian Academic transcript
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2010, 11:44:14 AM »
Thank you Mies for your reply and information.

Actually, she is in the second year of a six year medical degree program in Ukraine. We want to get the classes taken in Ukraine to get transferred to a B.S. degree that she needs before applying to medical university here. I already spoke to the head of admissions for a university here and it is possible.  However, the problem about transcripts came up now.

Another question:  We need detailed descriptions of each class that she has taken.  In American universities, all that information in printed up the in catalog, either for undergraduates or grad students.

Do Ukrainian universities publish catalogs? 

Offline mies

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Re: Ukrainian Academic transcript
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2010, 12:11:33 PM »
Thank you Mies for your reply and information.

Actually, she is in the second year of a six year medical degree program in Ukraine. We want to get the classes taken in Ukraine to get transferred to a B.S. degree that she needs before applying to medical university here. I already spoke to the head of admissions for a university here and it is possible.  However, the problem about transcripts came up now.

Another question:  We need detailed descriptions of each class that she has taken.  In American universities, all that information in printed up the in catalog, either for undergraduates or grad students.

Do Ukrainian universities publish catalogs?  

You are welcomed, Wayne.

Some universities publish catalogs, some don't. In my school - 1-page syllabus was usually distributed to students in the beginning of the class. Copies are stored at the department. She can ask her department administrative assistant to make copies of the course descriptions. I'm sure universities in Ukraine store information of this sort for their own accountability and meeting the requirements of the ministry of education. The courses are quite standard. I am not sure they have official procedure of producing copies of course catalogs/descriptions upon student request, but i'm quite certain this is all doable, with some remuneration. Amount of remuneration will vary. Your wife should have a better idea of it, if not - your step-daughter can find it out.

I would still advise you to find out with the university which courses they will agree to transfer credits, and which - not. Maybe your step-daughter have some flexibility in which courses she can take each semester. (maybe not).
Also, during the first years of education in Ukraine all students take "general education courses" - law of Ukraine, ukrainian language, foreign language, history, cultural studies, philosophy, political science, psychology, pedagogy, economics, etc.
Depending on the major - they also take major courses. For medical schools (for example here: http://217.196.164.19/ukr/rozklad/rozklad/%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%BA%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B4%20%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%96%D0%BD%D1%8C%202010-2011%20%D0%BD.%D1%80/%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%B4.%D1%84-%D1%82/1%20%D0%BA%D1%83%D1%80%D1%81/): medical chemistry, medical biology, medical and bio-physics, human anatomy , bioorganic and biological chemistry, physiology (normal and pathological), histology, cytology, embryology, etc.

I think you need to sit and do detailed analysis of how much you spend while she studies in Ukraine, how many courses she will be able to transfer (50% of her courses during first year in Ukraine may be useless for US school), how many years more she will need to study in US to earn her BSc before entering a medical school. You may realize that it is cheaper to bring her to US right away. Or maybe not.

Totally different option - is to finish her BSc degree fully in Ukraine (if they are awarded a BSc degree in medical schools - which I am unaware of - ask your step daughter to find out), and apply with the BSc degree from Ukraine to US medical school. This is different than credit transfer. It will be more or less the same as if she finished her BSc degree in US school in one state, and applied to another US school for advanced medical degree in a different state. On the condition that the new school recognizes her BSc degree as credible.


« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 12:34:27 PM by mies »

Offline Lily

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Re: Ukrainian Academic transcript
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2010, 01:23:13 PM »
Lily, thank you so much for all the detailed information.  My step-daughter is in the second year of a six year program, so she won't have a diploma when she comes to USA.  We want to have these two years of study transfer towards a B. S. degree here.  The optional document seems like what we should try to get.  Again thanks.

Good luck, Lily, on your persuits in Canada!

Oh. then it is a totally different story Wayne! My information would then hardly be of assistance. I thought it is about a GRADUATE, not a current student. A student does not have a diploma, therefore no insert with what I listed above.

At the same time, while she is a student, things look easier than for a graduate, in this respect. It is normal to make transfers; so every transferring student can ask for Академическая Справка (Academic Record) in the university that shows date of entering and leaving the particular university for another one. Same things are listed, name of class, class hours, and grades. No GPA though, and no class rank as this is not familiar in the FSU countries.

Also, now while she is a student, it should be easier for her to obtain the needed courses description. They should be available at the particular teaching chairs (Кафедра - [kAfedra]). Sometimes people can even find them online, available to everyone to read.

In my opinion, and as mies said, your first point of information should be not the Ukrainian, but the U.S. school that you target. Or a few schools that may be a good target. Go there and ask for their requirements concerning a transferee from abroad, and in particular what would their requirements be on giving her any credits for the classes already taken abroad. Then act proceeding from what they say you.

Also, as mies mentioned, in the first year of study, students learn a lot of general subjects, and they are a must, no way to avoid them or make a selections. Unfortunately, the education system based on the old Soviet one emphasizes a 'well-rounded' specialist, which meant that everyone had to study classes such sociology, history, etc etc, as listed by mies. This may make her Ukrainian studies less than useful. The specialized classes are usually taught during later years, therefore sometimes it may be worth to even fully graduate in the FSU, and only then go to the US universities again, taking advantages of the accredited classes.
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Offline Wayne

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Re: Ukrainian Academic transcript
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2010, 01:55:46 PM »
Thanks for all the information. The list of classes taken in each of the six years is given on the Ukrainian university website.  Only the more detailed descriptions are missing.  I had a meeting at the university here and showed them the list of classes, but they said they need more information.

We are waiting for the visas to be approved. They are planning to come next Summer.

Another question:  What about scholarships for Ukrainian students transfering here?  I see MSU and U of M have some programs.

Offline Lily

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Re: Ukrainian Academic transcript
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2010, 02:25:40 PM »

Another question:  What about scholarships for Ukrainian students transfering here?  I see MSU and U of M have some programs.

I think this would rather be the question for the Financial Aid offices of your target schools rather than for RWD members :)
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Offline mies

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Re: Ukrainian Academic transcript
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2010, 02:44:35 PM »
Also, as mies mentioned, in the first year of study, students learn a lot of general subjects, and they are a must, no way to avoid them or make a selections. Unfortunately, the education system based on the old Soviet one emphasizes a 'well-rounded' specialist, which meant that everyone had to study classes such sociology, history, etc etc, as listed by mies. This may make her Ukrainian studies less than useful. The specialized classes are usually taught during later years, therefore sometimes it may be worth to even fully graduate in the FSU, and only then go to the US universities again, taking advantages of the accredited classes.

It's pretty much the same in many US colleges programs. I just think that some of the general courses in Ukraine will not be transferable to US colleges. Who would need Ukrainian Law in the US? I do not say these studies are less useful in terms of educating the girl, I just said they cannot be transferred to US college and they are useless for this specific purpose. The content of these "general" courses will be quite different, especially in social sciences.
I also think that some of the courses in her first years in medical school in Ukraine will be too advanced as for undergrad program in US. For example, medical students in FSU are taking general medicine courses in their first years in FSU university. It will be hard to transfer a course in a medicine to US undergrad program if an American college does not teach such courses in its undergrad program.
I never said that FSU education is inferior. My education in Ukraine was superb, and every single course in 6 years was absolutely useful.

I think this would rather be the question for the Financial Aid offices of your target schools rather than for RWD members :)
agree 100%
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 03:18:15 PM by mies »

Offline mies

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Re: Ukrainian Academic transcript
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2010, 02:55:24 PM »
I had a meeting at the university here and showed them the list of classes, but they said they need more information.

First: ask your step-daughter to write brief description of each course she has taken. What is % of lectures vs. seminars vs. lab work, whether there are any midterm exams or only finals. Whether they are required to write any course papers (реферат). What are the topics in each course, what textbook they are using. Maybe just copy the titles of the chapters from that textbook. Who is the professor, his/her name, his/her experience (either clinical or academic). What is his/her scientific degree. Send this updated list to you so that you can show it to university.
Maybe - you (Wayne) can ask the university sample syllabus from their undergrad course, send it to your step-daughter, and ask her organize description of her courses in a same manner.
If she received syllabuses from her professors - she should translate them to English, and e-mail to you.

For more official information: Just ask your step-daughter or her mom to go to department assistant, tell her that she is applying to summer schools abroad, and for that she needs description of the courses. If they ask for details -just tell that there are several schools in public health in Europe and USA, she's planning on applying to all of them and seeing if she gets lucky. But these schools want to see if her education is sufficient. So she needs both the "transcripts" (in the end of academic year) and the description of the courses (now).

Do not tell them she is planning on relocating to US (unless she already told it), because:
- some professors may not like it and it can impact badly her grades, and treatment from professors. Some for political reasons, some out of envy.
- the amount of "remuneration" aka bribe for any help or service from the university will automatically be multiplied by factor X.
- naturally she should keep her mouth shut when she speaks to her friends and classmates too.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 03:07:55 PM by mies »

Offline ML

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Re: Ukrainian Academic transcript
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2010, 03:36:04 PM »
Same things are listed, name of class, class hours, and grades.

No GPA though, and no class rank as this is not familiar in the FSU countries.

My friend in Ukraine, who is interested in coming to USA for masters, told me that her GPA for first 5 year diploma was 4.75 based on a 5 point system.

This sounds same as our GPA system; doesn't it?
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Offline ML

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Re: Ukrainian Academic transcript
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2010, 03:40:45 PM »
Another aspect of this, is the analysis of the coursework completed in other countries and conversion to coursework in USA

Over the years here there has been several postings here concerning organizations in USA who are in the business of doing this work; and they are respected enough for their analysis to be accepted by Universities in USA.

I am never successful in using the search engine to find these prior threads.

Anyone have a reference to those threads?
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Offline mies

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Re: Ukrainian Academic transcript
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2010, 05:46:41 PM »
Another aspect of this, is the analysis of the coursework completed in other countries and conversion to coursework in USA

Over the years here there has been several postings here concerning organizations in USA who are in the business of doing this work; and they are respected enough for their analysis to be accepted by Universities in USA.

I am never successful in using the search engine to find these prior threads.

Anyone have a reference to those threads?

It's easy to google these organizations. I do not think it will be needed for Wayne's step-daughter. In my opinion - translated and notarized transcripts will be sufficient in her case. Or at least good starting point. Medical schools in Ukraine (and FSU in general) are very good.

Offline Lily

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Re: Ukrainian Academic transcript
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2010, 06:04:36 PM »
My friend in Ukraine, who is interested in coming to USA for masters, told me that her GPA for first 5 year diploma was 4.75 based on a 5 point system.

This sounds same as our GPA system; doesn't it?

May be; however, I never heard of any university that would officially accept a GPA-like grading.


Another aspect of this, is the analysis of the coursework completed in other countries and conversion to coursework in USA

Over the years here there has been several postings here concerning organizations in USA who are in the business of doing this work; and they are respected enough for their analysis to be accepted by Universities in USA.
 

Would that be something like www.wes.org?
« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 06:07:06 PM by Lily »
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Re: Ukrainian Academic transcript
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2010, 10:26:49 PM »
In the examples I was able to observe or experience, it was sufficient to explain the grading system. It is also possible to add the conversion into GPA system, but in the cases that I know - it was not required.

I was accepted to US school with simple translation of my transcripts and diploma. I did not transfer any credits from Ukrainian institution because it was not my objective. An Austrian friend of mine tried to transfer his credit units from Austrian and Belgian world-wide recognized schools, yet the US college was quite reluctant to do so. My friend had to get the detailed course description, basically the US university wanted to see the 100% identical course to transfer his credits.

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Re: Ukrainian Academic transcript
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2010, 07:19:35 AM »
May be; however, I never heard of any university that would officially accept a GPA-like grading.


Would that be something like www.wes.org?

Lily, perhaps we are approaching this from two different angles.

A GPA does not replace grading.  Grading is for an individual course.  As the name implies, GPA is the average of all the individual course grades that a person attains over all courses at a particular university.

Universities that you transfer to or start another degree completely with may require a certain grade or above in a particular critical course; math, accounting, biology, etc.

But also, most universities in USA require a certain GPA or above to be admitted for instance to MBA program, law school, med school, etc.

And yes, upon further investigation, I discovered the wes organization and others who do such work.

Thanks
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Re: Ukrainian Academic transcript
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2010, 07:33:11 AM »

1. An academic transcript is a Diploma insert, in Russian: вкладыш к диплому.

2. See above. Sometimes however, it may be possible to order an Archive List of Subjects Taken (Архивная Справка) that also lists all the classes taken, hours spend in class and total number of hours, and marks earned at each class.

3. The document contains: years of entrance and graduation; classes and courses taken, numbers of hours spent at each class, and the marks. There are, however, no such things as 'credits', general average grades or class rankings. Additionally, the same insert contains marks about the State Examinations for professions such as lawyers, name of the state exams and marks earned at the State qualification exams.


Lily, I cannot see the difference between the two documents you outline; at least with respect to the key ingredients that USA schools want to see: classes taken, hours spent in class and grades earned,etc.    So why fuss about trying to get one when the other can be obtained?  The USA school won't care if the document is called a вкладыш к диплому or a Архивная Справка, as long as it has the desired info.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 07:36:31 AM by ManLooking »
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Re: Ukrainian Academic transcript
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2010, 07:53:17 AM »

At the same time, it may depend on a particular university. Some are really internationally versed; but again, no one would issue another insert unless people go the way I described. They may envelop you a notarized copy of the insert, if you want it and if the American school accepts it in this way.

The Law Society of Upper Canada is by far one of the strictest bodies which wanted to see the official transcripts only. Here is what I wrote to them explaining my situation with the transcripts:

" My circumstances are that I cannot obtain my official transcripts from the University in Russian Federation where I did a part of my legal education. Other than that, I cannot provide an official Certificate of Call for Admission, or Letter of Good Standing along with official Certificate of Marks for the examinations from Russian Federation as part of my NCA applications. The reasons are explained below.

1.     Universities from Russian Federation do not issue original transcripts more than once at graduation.

Again, Lily, it seems too much is being made of this 'original' idea.

For USA universities, the 'original' transcript is never issued to anyone, including the student.  It is a thick papered document that is prepared by the university and each semester a new set of courses and grades is prepared and 'pasted' onto the thick paper.

This document is not given to student at graduation, as students have been given grade reports each semester, so they really don't need it.

Then, when someone (employer or graduate school) asks to see the official transcript, the university simply Xeroxes the thick papered document, puts some sort of stamp or seal on it and mails it out.

So everyone, student included, always just get a copy.

Now, there is a slightly different procedure in today's world of computerized records.
Each  students record is continuously updated each semester.  At any given time, the university can simply push the button and print out the current transcript.  They can print out, stamp  or seal, and send  to anyone that the student authorizes.  In the modern system, there is no difference between an original and a copy; they all  come out on the printer.

But back to the typical situation of typed records, everyone gets a copy, no one gets an 'original.'
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Re: Ukrainian Academic transcript
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2010, 09:06:21 AM »
Lily, I cannot see the difference between the two documents you outline; at least with respect to the key ingredients that USA schools want to see: classes taken, hours spent in class and grades earned,etc.    So why fuss about trying to get one when the other can be obtained?  The USA school won't care if the document is called a вкладыш к диплому or a Архивная Справка, as long as it has the desired info.

IMHO Lily has provided a very detailed description of the documents, in order to avoid confusion, and to help Wayne's step-daughter.
There is a standard procedure in FSU schools.
Students receive "appendix to Diploma" on graduation day. They do not need to order it or take any additional steps to receive it. Naturally, currently enrolled students cannot have this document.
Requesting "archive certificate" requires more efforts from the student, and involves multiple steps.

I may be wrong, but I am under impression that Ukrainian universities' records aren't fully computerized. That is students cannot access their records, grades, and registration information online. When students join college, they receive a small "grade book", they take this book to every exam, and professor puts the title of the course, number of hours, and course grade there and signs.
We often have oral exams. Or written-oral. For example, at the physics exam first 2 hours is written, problems solving. Then next few hours professor calls students, checks their exam, and asks additional questions based on the content of the course. This is a great stimuli for studying, and also weeds out people who cheated on the exam - because they may have cheated during the written part, but there is no way to cheat during oral part of the examination. But at the same time - this process is less fair, as some claim - because a professor asks questions randomly, he can give an easy question to one student, and much tougher question to another student. Also sometimes this makes exams a nightmare, they start in the morning, and can last till 6-7pm, depending on the number of students in the class.  
Professor also has his own "grade sheet" issued by the department, with names of all the students. He puts grades there as well, and returns the "grade sheet" to the department.

Losing a "grade book" for student is quite a tragedy, of what i heard, because the hassle to restore it/get records of the grades from the department - is next to enormous. They do not make it easy for students :D

Overall, receiving a copy of records is probably the same as you just described, about original transcripts - individual files for every student.  But it takes more time and effort in FSU schools.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 09:18:31 AM by mies »

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Re: Ukrainian Academic transcript
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2010, 10:36:34 AM »
Mies, thanks for your input.

Let me try to state my ideas in shorter form.

1. No American University or company will care if the document is called вкладыш к диплому or a Архивная Справка.  They only look for course name, hours and grades.  So which ever is easiest for former student to obtain; then get that one.

2. No American University or company expects to get an original document.  They know that all documents they receive will come off the copy machine of the former university.
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