What has changed?

[Jooky]

Hey Jack,

How'd you manage to lead a tour? Haven't you heard the news? The FSU matchmaking business is dead an all involved are criminals. 

Seriously, since you're around, what's your opinion on the 'Russian bride business'? Is it dead? Is it flourishing? Is it changing?

I remember a few years ago you were quoted about the shift from the larger to smaller cities and from Russia to Ukraine. (I think that was in that Playboy article). Has this shift continued? Is it harder to find ladies to attend your socials, or do you just have to use different methods and agencies to attract them? Is the demand increasing, decreasing or staying the same?

It's be interesting to hear from someone with actual current experience over there.

[Jack]

Jooky, it took a little while for me to get off the ground from laughing so hard after hearing/reading of this stuff from the master of the dirty barrel.  Yes, of course I have many thoughts about all this and am going to comment. I have just returned home, have some catch up work to do with my phone company as well reply to several serious emails from guys who have not heard the business is dying.  

When I reply it will take some time to do so as I have seen on this and the other board when anyone has questioned Mr. dirty barrel with what I have seen as very bonafide and serious questions he comes back at them with his usual low life comments and as such I would like for my comments to be able to show and hopefully address what I think is happening behind the scenes that most of us are not suppose to be smart enough to know, but that many of you guys have already figured out, to three guy's great disgust.

The only reason I responded to eduards comments was it did not require much time, was short and to the point. Addressing the dieing of the Russian/Ukraine bride business as a few would like the majority to believe will take more time due to the great extreme being placed to "convert" thou to the new way of doing things.

[chivo]

well, it's basically along the line of "I don't like America" and "I would never want to live in America" when they get contacted by American men. The rate of positive response to Canadians and European clients of mine is noticeably better. In Russia, I mainly attribute this to a well organised anti-American media campaign for the past several years. Although it's very subtle, sometimes even subliminal, still it is obvious to me, and evidently it is working... Funny that when they talk about the USA on TV in Russia, much of the time it's not what they say but how they say it, i.e. sarcastic tone of voice + facial expressions they use. Sadly enough, Russian younger generation doesn't even realise that 90% (in my estimation) of all positive improvements since the fall of the USSR are borrowed, ripped off and licensed from the USA. Probably 70% of the TV programming that they are watching are American movies (dubbed in Russian) and shows. They also take concepts that proved to be successful here and have their own versions of them - for example a Russian version of "Married with Children" and "Sally Jessie Rafael" shows. I mean, it is hilarious to watch the US 80s shows now being revamped "Russian language style". The Russian "Sally Jessy Rafael" could work as the original's double. She imitates everything - hair style, geeky glasses, how she walked and talked, facial expressions, everything!  Same deal with the Russian version of "Married with Children". They use different names but everything else is copied, even the furniture in the house is the same the way it's set up. There are other shows as well. Russians off course think that these are original concepts... Same goes for music and other art forms. 

In Ukraine it's a different story IMO. I don't find that women have a specifically anti-American mood parse, I'd say that UW are a bit jaded there and have an image of WM based on the WM that go there for whatever reasons. And IMO many of the WM that go to Ukraine are not the best representation of WM to say the least...

So what are your thoughts on this, Chivo?

Remember that perception is reality . Here's what I wrote last night but decided to wait until after you commented to post:

It would be too easy just to say that the economy has changed, and that's it!!

I think we also tend to underestimate just how powerful a tool the internet is.

The fact is Russia has grown up right before our eyes, as at least before mine. As you well know most Russians didn't even have an international passport before 2000, much less everything else that's available now (internet, goods, travel, etc.).  Most Russians had never been outside the country from 2000-2005 excluding Egypt, Turkey, and the like. The way the world moves now it doesn't take long for people to see and understand how the world really is. Many have been all over the world now and can form their own impressions about who, what, when and where and word travels fast.

Think of Russia as a school girl who has finally arrived on a university  campus and doesn't need "daddy" to show her the ropes anymore, she can find out for herself. She meets a lot of people during her years there (Americans FWIW) and finds that they're much different than what she heard about or saw in movies, and it's not a good thing either. I have heard time and again how Americans have treated them while in America and most of the time it's with little interest in their country (meaning Russia), their culture and the basic "America is the best place, your country sucks, God bless America" attitude (BTW most love America, it's Americans that are a problem). It goes without saying that the Americans they meet here aren't much different, and many times even worse (with the exception of me of course )

Oh, but of course if they're sweet young things they want to have sex with them . Think of it as meeting your hero only to be woefully disappointed.

Factor in what most of the world thinks about America (imperialism at its finest, or its worst) couple with the belief here that the good old USA created the global economic crisis and you start to get an idea of what many around this part of the world feel towards America, not to mention a groundswell of the good old cold war mentality that's been on the up rise, and presto!

[Eduard]

Hey Jack,
I remember a few years ago you were quoted about the shift from the larger to smaller cities and from Russia to Ukraine. (I think that was in that Playboy article). Has this shift continued?

I have jaCk on ignore and do not have the slightest interest in his ramblings. But I can see that he responded to my post addressing Chivo, so in turn I will respond to you, Jooky.

Why the shift from Russia to Ukraine? What shift are we talking about? There are at least 3 times more single women in Russia than in Ukraine.
Majority of the WM go to Ukraine to find women, and only few go to Russia which makes the selection even more attractive in Russia compared to Ukraine.
The only shift to speak of is the shift of the mailorder bride agency/romantic tour business (along with all it's inherit problems) to Ukraine.
Sure, travelling to Ukraine is a little easier because of no visa requirement and no need to register in each city. But in my experience finding your soulmate, the woman you'd want to marry, the future mother of your children is so much easier in Russia compared to Ukraine nowdays that it's well worth it getting a Russian visa!

My clients get a 100% commitment from me and my honest advice. I have absolutely nothing to gain from steering WM to Russia instead of Ukraine, except for getting the results they want - finding their soulmate as quickly and inexpensively as possible with the least amount of stress and worries and with the final result - marriage to a beautiful FSU woman.
A number of my clients, brainwashed by the MOB industry still insist that we look in Ukraine in spite of my advice. So I help them with that hence the reason I go to Ukraine 2 or 3 times a year. But I always share my feelings on the subject with them and we usually have a "back up plan" in Russia. It never fails, Russian women win out. This probably is a simple statistics thing as I pointed out in the beginning of my post, and has nothing to do with RW versus UW. There are awesome women in Ukraine (some of them are my cousins, actually!   )
as in Russia.

I'll break it down for you. These numbers are not actual statistics, I'm just using them for demonstration purposes.
Let's say there are 1500 single and available FSU women. Simply because of the size of the countries and their populations a 1000 of these women live in Russia and 500 live in Ukraine. And there is a 100 WM looking for their soulmate among these 1500 women. 90% of these men go to Ukraine off course to look for their bride, because the MOB industry tells them that that's the way to go!

So now we have 90 WM looking among 500 UW
and 10 WM men looking among 1000 RW

In addition, it is the reality that only about 5% of the FSU women would seriously contemplate marrying a WM and moving to his country away from her motherland, family, friends and career. So that would leave us with 25 women in Ukraine and 50 women in Russia.

So there you have it:
10 guys looking in Russia among 50 women versus 90 guys looking in Ukraine among 25 women.

Although I realise that this is a bit crude and there are variables like pure luck, for instance, I still think that the odds are vastly better on the side of Russia and my personal experience helping many WM supports my view.

Now I don't expect any one to accept this as Gospel, I am just expressing my opinion, my logic and my life experience. Simply put, if I were single right now, where would I look for an FSU woman? The answer might surprise you...I'd look everywhere (as I do with my clients). We search for them in a man's city, in Russia, in Ukraine, in the Baltics, everywhere. We do all kinds of different searches. We don't search for a place but rather for women that a man connects with. And if she happens to live in Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Lithuania, Russia, Spain, Dominican Republic (Yes, you can find FSU women living all over the globe nowdays) that's where we are going to travel to meet them. Does that make sense?

[Muzh]

Sure, travelling to Ukraine is a little easier because of no visa requirement and no need to register in each city. But in my experience finding your soulmate, the woman you'd want to marry, the future mother of your children is so much easier in Russia compared to Ukraine nowdays that it's well worth it getting a Russian visa!

Ed, I read your reasons, however, you still didn't tell me why. What makes a Russian woman a better candidate than an Ukrainian woman?

[Eduard]

Ed, I read your reasons, however, you still didn't tell me why. What makes a Russian woman a better candidate than an Ukrainian woman?

that's not what I said.

[Admin]

I have jaCk on ignore and do not have the slightest interest in his ramblings. But I can see that he responded to my post addressing Chivo, so in turn I will respond to you, Jooky. [1.]

Why the shift from Russia to Ukraine? What shift are we talking about? There are at least 3 times more single women in Russia than in Ukraine. [2.]
Majority of the WM go to Ukraine to find women, and only few go to Russia [3.] which makes the selection even more attractive in Russia compared to Ukraine.
The only shift to speak of is the shift of the mailorder bride agency/romantic tour business (along with all it's inherit problems) to Ukraine. [4.]
Sure, travelling to Ukraine is a little easier because of no visa requirement and no need to register in each city. But in my experience finding your soulmate, the woman you'd want to marry, the future mother of your children is so much easier in Russia compared to Ukraine nowdays that it's well worth it getting a Russian visa![5.]

My clients get a 100% commitment from me and my honest advice. I have absolutely nothing to gain from steering WM to Russia instead of Ukraine, except for getting the results they want - finding their soulmate as quickly and inexpensively as possible with the least amount of stress and worries and with the final result - marriage to a beautiful FSU woman. [6.]
A number of my clients, brainwashed by the MOB industry still insist that we look in Ukraine in spite of my advice. So I help them with that hence the reason I go to Ukraine 2 or 3 times a year. But I always share my feelings on the subject with them and we usually have a "back up plan" in Russia. It never fails, Russian women win out. This probably is a simple statistics thing [7.] as I pointed out in the beginning of my post, and has nothing to do with RW versus UW. There are awesome women in Ukraine (some of them are my cousins, actually!  )
as in Russia.

I'll break it down for you. These numbers are not actual statistics, I'm just using them for demonstration purposes.[8.]
Let's say there are 1500 single and available FSU women. Simply because of the size of the countries and their populations a 1000 of these women live in Russia and 500 live in Ukraine. And there is a 100 WM looking for their soulmate among these 1500 women. 90% of these men go to Ukraine off course to look for their bride, because the MOB industry tells them that that's the way to go![9.]

So now we have 90 WM looking among 500 UW
and 10 WM men looking among 1000 RW

In addition, it is the reality that only about 5% of the FSU women would seriously contemplate marrying a WM and moving to his country away from her motherland, family, friends and career. So that would leave us with 25 women in Ukraine and 50 women in Russia.

So there you have it:
10 guys looking in Russia among 50 women versus 90 guys looking in Ukraine among 25 women.[10.]

Although I realise that this is a bit crude and there are variables like pure luck, for instance, I still think that the odds are vastly better on the side of Russia and my personal experience helping many WM supports my view.

Now I don't expect any one to accept this as Gospel, I am just expressing my opinion, my logic and my life experience. Simply put, if I were single right now, where would I look for an FSU woman? The answer might surprise you...I'd look everywhere (as I do with my clients). We search for them in a man's city, in Russia, in Ukraine, in the Baltics, everywhere. We do all kinds of different searches. We don't search for a place but rather for women that a man connects with. And if she happens to live in Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Lithuania, Russia, Spain, Dominican Republic (Yes, you can find FSU women living all over the globe nowdays) that's where we are going to travel to meet them. Does that make sense?

Eduard,

Comments on numbered items follow:

1. This comment of yours was entirely unnecessary. It could be removed with no impact in your message. Your REAL motive was to sling a dart in Jack's direction - which, as you should have come to learn by now, is a zero-sum game. Suggestion: Eliminate all unnecessary prose from your posts.

2. I presume you are making reference to the overall population difference of Russia and Ukraine which is approximately 142 million to 46 million - roughly a 3 to 1 ratio. I am not sure that ratio translates directly for "single women" - though I would expect it would.

3. Your claim is not substantiated. What makes you think more Western Men travel to Russia than Ukraine?

4. You reference "inherit [sp] problems" that are shifting to Ukraine. Elaboration please.

5. In the interest of full disclosure, you should probably make certain everyone knows that YOU are from Russia, and that your wife is from Russia. In that way, they can be better-informed of your natural bias.

6. This entire text is nothing more than an advertisement and does NOT belong in a post sincerely designed to help someone else. I point this out to you THIS time - though in the future, if it persists (and this is not the first time), the RWD Staff and I will take further measures. Please monitor and control your own postings so that others do not need to do it for you.

7. Oh good! Eduard citing "statistics."

8. Ed - why did you reference "statistics" but then disappoint by not offering any?!?

9. Use of an exclamation point normally indicates you want to make the point emphatically. Unfortunately, your emphatic point is undergirded with  . . . nothing tangible or reliable, just your "demonstration" of a position to support your advertising and marketing piece.

10. And the conclusion is drawn based solely on your representation of your own biased experiences and not surprisingly, in support of your position that would lead more customers in your direction.

Caveat emptor

- Dan

[Vinnvinny]

So now we have 90 WM looking among 500 UW
and 10 WM men looking among 1000 RW

I believe only 2.5* WM went to China looking for a bride last year and had 349 million available suitors. Where does this leave us?

* One was very short .. they liked him best.

[chivo]

Well i've seen this thread has taken a turn for the worse.

[Admin]

Well i've seen this thread has taken a turn for the worse.

chivo,

Apologies for the re-direction. Mine was intended to address the constant self-promotion of one of our Commercial Members. One who I believe has enormous potential to make genuine contribution to RWD and her members - IF he can ever learn to lose the constant adverts. I thought I might be more effective if I addressed it in-thread, rather than the private communications we have had in the past.

- Dan

[GQBlues]

Remember that perception is reality . Here's what I wrote last night but decided to wait until after you commented to post:

It would be too easy just to say that the economy has changed, and that's it!!

I think we also tend to underestimate just how powerful a tool the internet is.

The fact is Russia has grown up right before our eyes, as at least before mine. As you well know most Russians didn't even have an international passport before 2000, much less everything else that's available now (internet, goods, travel, etc.).  Most Russians had never been outside the country from 2000-2005 excluding Egypt, Turkey, and the like. The way the world moves now it doesn't take long for people to see and understand how the world really is. Many have been all over the world now and can form their own impressions about who, what, when and where and word travels fast.

Think of Russia as a school girl who has finally arrived on a university  campus and doesn't need "daddy" to show her the ropes anymore, she can find out for herself. She meets a lot of people during her years there (Americans FWIW) and finds that they're much different than what she heard about or saw in movies, and it's not a good thing either. I have heard time and again how Americans have treated them while in America and most of the time it's with little interest in their country (meaning Russia), their culture and the basic "America is the best place, your country sucks, God bless America" attitude (BTW most love America, it's Americans that are a problem). It goes without saying that the Americans they meet here aren't much different, and many times even worse (with the exception of me of course )

Oh, but of course if they're sweet young things they want to have sex with them . Think of it as meeting your hero only to be woefully disappointed.

Factor in what most of the world thinks about America (imperialism at its finest, or its worst) couple with the belief here that the good old USA created the global economic crisis and you start to get an idea of what many around this part of the world feel towards America, not to mention a groundswell of the good old cold war mentality that's been on the up rise, and presto!

So Chivo, a very informative post!

But....silly man that I am, is this almost like saying due to the citations you called out for present day Russia makes resident RWs realize that the Joey Bag O'Donuts', like myself of course, are no longer glamorized about as raging Rock Stars anymore?

Novelty cape shredders on?

Let me add:

This whole subject of 'change' in the social/dating/marriage relations with FSU make me think why is this even an issue big enough to warrant so many threads and discussion. Things always have a knack to change during any given course of time.

If the implication is, it isn't as easy or as popular as it used to be, well, isn't that a wonderful thing for all? From the perspective that if you did in fact met, married, and emigrated a FSU national to your home and country - then all the apprehension as to whether or not she married you because of you is literally null and void, no? Just like if you wed and emigrated a gal from the UK or even OZ...stigma off.

The inexperienced or non-qualifier need not apply...

[wicheese]

In Russia, I mainly attribute this to a well organised anti-American media campaign for the past several years. Although it's very subtle, sometimes even subliminal, still it is obvious to me, and evidently it is working... Funny that when they talk about the USA on TV in Russia, much of the time it's not what they say but how they say it, i.e. sarcastic tone of voice + facial expressions they use.

Ed,


Sometimes it's not very hidden at all.  I'm sure all know that Russia won some junior world hockey championship recently.  What you might not know is that the team was denied boarding of their plane in NYC, which was widely reported in Russia with some hints it was political because the USA was upset that Russia won a tournament that most Americans never knew existed.  Probably the real reason was that the boys had been drinking too much and were just a little too rowdy (could not report that truth on Russian TV as it would tarnish a great accomplishment).  No wonder the inward looking RW does not have a favorable view of AM.

[Eduard]

3. Your claim is not substantiated. What makes you think more Western Men travel to Russia than Ukraine?
Caveat emptor

- Dan

I actually said exactly the opposite, that more WM go to Ukraine to search for women.

[Eduard]

Well i've seen this thread has taken a turn for the worse.

I agree. And since I'm not going to be allowed to speak freely I don't see the point in continuing posting here.

[Admin]

I actually said exactly the opposite, that more WM go to Ukraine to search for women.

Yes, quite true. I inverted them and your unsubstantiated claim was/is that more Western Men travel to Ukraine than to Russia.

I agree. And since I'm not going to be allowed to speak freely I don't see the point in continuing posting here.

If by "speak freely" you mean have unfettered prerogative to use RWD as your personal advertising site - that is correct, you are NOT free to continue to act in that manner (and neither is any other Commercial Member). If that results in you taking your marbles and going home - so be it.

- Dan

[acctBill]

I just noticed this thread and one noticeable change in the FSU that I don't think Jack, Chivo, Ed or anyone else has mentioned is the large number of citizens of the FSU that have immigrated from the FSU.  As I've mentioned before London and the UK has literally hundreds of thousands of Russians living in the country, almost all since 1990.  Most of EU countries have reported an increase of tens of thousands in FSU immigration since 1990.

Because of this immigration there are large numbers of people in the FSU that have relatives or know people who have left the FSU for a new life in the EU. In turn citizens in the FSU have learned that the EU is a nice place to travel and vacation.  Unless the economy in the EU gets worse I believe that citizens of the FSU will continue to leave the FSU for the EU and the rest of the world.    

[I/O]

London and the UK has literally hundreds of thousands of Russians living in the country, almost all since 1990.

Any verifiable data on this one?

[dbneeley]

Eduard's invented numbers regarding Ukraine vs. Russia are more than a little misleading.

The truth is that there are far more ladies in both Russia and Ukraine who are seeking mates and who would consider moving abroad than there are Western men seeking mates who actually travel to either country.

While obviously the population of Russia is three times larger, the relative economies are such that I believe a somewhat higher percentage of the Ukrainian ladies are motivated to want to leave. While economic factors are not the sole determinants, it should be obvious that women seek a secure future for themselves and for any children especially--so it should not be discounted nor denigrated.

Given that scenario, then, and given that any particular gentleman is only seeking one lady in the end, the actual situation is at least somewhat more balanced than Ed would indicate.

I quite agree that there may in many cases be less competition from other Western suitors in any particular area. However, even in Ukraine there are places that are far less frequently visited by Western men than others--I happen to live in one of them, Donetsk.

Were I unmarried and seeking a mate in the FSU, I would be far less concerned about the country, focusing instead on the ladies themselves who seem the closest match to what I was seeking--then schedule my trips accordingly.

For the newcomer to this pursuit, don't let anyone with an agenda of one sort or another color your choices. If you are realistic in your expectations and know as well as possible the kind of lady who would be the best match, you can be successful.

David

[acctBill]

Any verifiable data on this one?

Here's some basic information on the Russian diaspora in Europe, Canada, the US and other countries. I really would say that the article underestimates the number of Russians in several countries.  For instance I've seen several articles in London newspapers and websites that put the number of Russians in England at 600,000+ as of a couple of years ago, most arriving within the last 20 years.   

In this case I'm sure the article is using Russian to refer to all former citizens of the FSU.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_diaspora

To understand how common Russians are in London, the Russian community has extensive Russian/English language websites for life in London.  Websites like the link are quite common.

http://www.russianlondon.com/

[Eduard]

Were I unmarried and seeking a mate in the FSU, I would be far less concerned about the country, focusing instead on the ladies themselves who seem the closest match to what I was seeking--then schedule my trips accordingly.

For the newcomer to this pursuit, don't let anyone with an agenda of one sort or another color your choices. If you are realistic in your expectations and know as well as possible the kind of lady who would be the best match, you can be successful.

David

Hi Dave, I wasn't gonna post in this thread any more, but I saw your post and out of respect to you I want to respond to what you said above. My response is that if you look at my post closely again (quoted below), you will find this on the bottom, and I believe that it's in line with what you said above:

"Now I don't expect any one to accept this as Gospel, I am just expressing my opinion, my logic and my life experience. Simply put, if I were single right now, where would I look for an FSU woman? The answer might surprise you...I'd look everywhere (as I do with my clients). We search for them in a man's city, in Russia, in Ukraine, in the Baltics, everywhere. We do all kinds of different searches. We don't search for a place but rather for women that a man connects with. And if she happens to live in Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Lithuania, Russia, Spain, Dominican Republic (Yes, you can find FSU women living all over the globe nowdays) that's where we are going to travel to meet them. Does that make sense?"

PS
Dan made a statement that I am somehow "biased" ...well, Dan, I don't think so. My father was born in Donetsk and his parents were born in Sevastopol, that's Ukraine. My maternal grandmother was born in Simferopol - that's also Ukraine and I was conceived in Yalta (Ukraine by the way). I have lots of family all over Ukraine, actually more than in Russia. Growing up I spent many summers with my grandparents....mmm in Ukraine. So...biased...I don't think so... Actually if my purpose of visit wasn't helping Western men with FSU women I'd rather go to Ukraine, because the climate is milder and the food tastes better to me (if you know where to go). Do you honestly believe that I would have flown to Irkutsk a few weeks ago into the -28 Centigrade weather (not to mention the time it takes to get to Irkutsk! For those of you who don't know - Irkutsk is in Siberia and it takes another 6 hour flight from Moscow to get there) if we could accomplish the same goal by going to Kiev at -2 Centigrade? and in almost half the time it takes to get there? No Dan, I'm no masochist  

[Anotherkiwi]

Compared to the west, very high.

When I first moved here there was a big internet cafe in the underground mall by the Kremlin. Literally a 100 or more computers and packed from morning till night. Sometimes I would have to wait 20-30 minutes to get on a computer. It's a restaurant now

I noticed this too.  On my first visit to Russia (late 2006) I used that huge Internet cafe three or four times.  I was quite surprised to find that it no longer existed when I was there a few months ago.

[JohnDearGreen]

I noticed this too.  On my first visit to Russia (late 2006) I used that huge Internet cafe three or four times.  I was quite surprised to find that it no longer existed when I was there a few months ago.

It doesn't matter how many PC's the lady has at home if she is not getting any quality responses from the men.  Two ladies who are regulars here, and several who are not have mentioned how very few good quality contacts they received from the web sites in recent years.   

So, are 95% of the men always chasing the 5% of the ladies who are models or lingerie bunnies?   

[Admin]

PS
Dan made a statement that I am somehow "biased" ...well, Dan, I don't think so. My father was born in Donetsk and his parents were born in Sevastopol, that's Ukraine. My maternal grandmother was born in Simferopol - that's also Ukraine and I was conceived in Yalta (Ukraine by the way). I have lots of family all over Ukraine, actually more than in Russia. Growing up I spent many summers with my grandparents....mmm in Ukraine. So...biased...I don't think so... Actually if my purpose of visit wasn't helping Western men with FSU women I'd rather go to Ukraine, because the climate is milder and the food tastes better to me (if you know where to go). Do you honestly believe that I would have flown to Irkutsk a few weeks ago into the -28 Centigrade weather (not to mention the time it takes to get to Irkutsk! For those of you who don't know - Irkutsk is in Siberia and it takes another 6 hour flight from Moscow to get there) if we could accomplish the same goal by going to Kiev at -2 Centigrade? and in almost half the time it takes to get there? No Dan, I'm no masochist 

Donetsk and Sevastopol - both historically dominated by Russian influences far more than Ukrainian. Had you said Lviv or Uzghorod, it might have held sway - AND - you, yourself are Russian.

Ed, I would *never* expect you to admit bias. Any more than I would expect you to conduct a serious quantitative analysis with real (not imagined) data, and produce statistically competent results.

Now I get it - as does everyone else - that you traveled to Irkutsk recently. You managed to get another 'plug' in for your business interests - and I am going to do little other than make mention of it - this last time.

- Dan

[GoodOlBoy]

So, are 95% of the men always chasing the 5% of the ladies who are models or lingerie bunnies?

Why Not??
Most 50-60 yr old AM seeking FSU brides believe that they have the genetics of a 30 year old and they take their "vitamins" every day too!

GOB

[Turboguy]

Why the shift from Russia to Ukraine? What shift are we talking about? There are at least 3 times more single women in Russia than in Ukraine.
Majority of the WM go to Ukraine to find women, and only few go to Russia which makes the selection even more attractive in Russia compared to Ukraine.

I do agree with you that more men go to Ukraine.   I think a big part of that is because they can go without a Visa.   I think another part of that is that if you are writing 3 women from different cities in Ukraine no matter where they are you can get there from Kiev in a reasonable time.  Russia is much more spread out and getting some of the places takes a long, long time.  A third factor is that it seems to me that the Agency situation is much more developed in Ukraine. 

I think men who find a special woman somewhere in the FSU go wherever she is, Russia or Ukraine.  I would say that 75% of the men who just go to the FSU in the hopes of meeting a special woman go to Ukraine. 

One thing I have noticed both in the K-1 immigration statistics Dan receintly posted and in a survey I saw a while back of RWD members, although 60% of the guys who travel go to Ukraine about 60% of our members found their wife in Russia.  In the overall statistics on K-1's Russia is ahead but by not as much.   To me it seems that the odds are better going to Russia.  Three times the women and a much better chance of success.  Of course it only takes one and she can be anywhere including in your back yard.