"The Russian Bride Business Is Dead" ? Really?

[Manny]

Shadow, please check your PMS.

[tim 360]

Manny advertising is indepent from creating a post. Banners are leading to a site that is the risk of whoever wishes to go there. However any poster of a topic should follow the TOS in which quick money making schemes are forbidden.
Perhaps on RUA these are allowed, in that case I can come over there and make some posts, I will even cut you a share of the profits in order not to be subjected to a changing set of rules as things progress.

Tim, Andrew is paying $1 for every e-mail address that you can provide him which also downloads the report. Apart from being extremely concerned for the poor agency owners and brideseekers, he also is philantropic as he gives away money for nothing.
Makes me wonder two things...first of all how much cash does he have, and second would a number of mail adresses from the same IP be banned.... would be pretty fun to create a small robot, with or without proxies. 

He is paying $1 and not getting $1.  That is very kind of him.  Thanks for clearing that up.

ECOCKS,  Do you think there is a "strategy" behind all this BS????????????  Smells like it.

[ECOCKS]

Something is happening here that is "not readily transparent". In all venues, there are/were questions being raised, a couple of defenders popping up and similar comments as to the "tabloid-like styling" of promotion and presentation.

Like many who encounter a dicey situation, this seems to me to be one of those where the truth, stated early-on in answer to direct questions, would have cleared the air and helped reputations. Instead, spin and ally support was enlisted with generally failing attempts and tarnishing of reputations across at least three boards (probably four) that I know of so far.

So, something was attempted and maybe even slightly successful. One board has 11 pages on it already. However, my quick scan shows about a 75+% rejection based on almost the same questions and points even on "friendly ground". Everyone should scan what they care to and decide for themselves whether this is something with value or 2 day old fish still waiting to be cleaned....

[Admin]

Some of you may not have noticed, but RWD was carrying banners for this report a few days ago. It was also mentioned (and linked) in the RWD newsletter. I suspect Dan is fully up to speed about it.

Shadow, if you didnt see the RWD newsletter, I *may* lend you my copy as long as you promise to delete it afterwards. 

So, all this talk of TOS and self-promotion may well be wasted e-paper. Why not wait and see what Dan says about that? Just a thought.......

Oh, and to Tim, Legal, Ade and any others who love to jump on any passing "Lets beat Manny with a stick" bandwagon, I am not connected at all to this report as has been comprehensively discussed elsewhere already.

>>So, all this talk of TOS and self-promotion may well be wasted e-paper. Why not wait and see what Dan says about that? Just a thought....... <<

Anyone waiting on me will have to wait a while longer. I am ill and not going to respond further. Only posting this due to the 'passions' (and PMs received) in the topic.

- Dan

[I/O]

check your PMS

I am ill

Fix that, it's the most important thing.

[Phil dAmore]

Take it easy on Andrew. He really is one of us. I have always heard that Andrew is an excellent host and a real gentleman. Very hospitable to those of us he meets

Indeed, Andrew is an excellent host and gentleman.  I have fond memories of a summer in Petersburg discussing the (then) state of the FSU bride business and where it might be heading.

Also, he saved me from spending a few days out on the street when I was stranded in Finland due to a glitch in the visa process!

[Jooky]

If you want to read it, go to Andrews site, cough up an email address you can access, and read it.

Interesting to note that this keeps getting pushed for.

It's clear to me now that Shadow is right. The main purpose of this report is to gather an opt-in mailing list.

Andrew doesn't need our emails to inform us about the demise of the bride industry. I'm sure he could get them from Manny anyways. There's a full mailing list from the old RWG floating out there too. I'd be surprised if he doesn't already have it as it was publicly available for a while. If he wants his future info sent out to us, it can be sent through the RUA newletter like was already done.

The quality of the list is clearly not important. Andrew really wants my email? Or AJ's or Shadow's or anyone else here? He knows we're not going to buy what he's selling, whatever it ends up being. To whoever is paying for these emails, most of our names and addresses have zero real value.

The value is in reselling them. They are emails collected from a) men interested in Russian women who b) specifically opted in to receive future promotions. The fact that Andrew knows most emails gathered here will be in the end valueless, but he still wants them, tells me that we're not the only ones he's attempting to dupe.

Or maybe he's more clueless than I give him credit for?

A serious piece of advice for Andrew though it's probably too late. If I were you I would remove your video and disassociate you as the the author of this and future reports from you as the internet persona AndrewFi.

You do a disservice to both.

The Andrew we see in your video is credible as a man who would be seeking a Russian bride and hence have respect for his peer bride seekers and concerned with the demise of the bride industry. Linked to your online persona, however, all credibility is lost as it's hard to believe the man who posted thousands of posts belittling the men who seek foreign brides, likening their search to the buying and selling of a product and telling them to seek equals amongst their peers back home (good advice in general by the way) is now deeply concerned for their search for true love.

Likewise, the pompous and superior internet entrepreneur AndrewFi of the forums loses his edge when we see the pudgy amateur 'Amway salesman' behind the mask. It's like the unveiling of the Wizard of Oz and frankly makes me embarrassed for taking you somewhat seriously in the past.

[Jooky]

Some final words of advice.

Andrew, if you do truly have respect for the men seeking brides overseas and are concerned for their quest to find love it would serve you better to:

- Pay attention to the comments here about your promotional style. 'We' are your target audience.

- State your true intentions and plans clearly. If you honestly intend to help people I am sure you would find the general response here much more positive and helpful.

- Disassociate yourself with what is going on over at RUA. The moving and deletion of posts that criticize your advertorial and the banning of truly experienced men (far more than you in terms of searching for and marrying Russian women) stinks and gives the impression that you are all in cahoots to mislead and rip people off, not help them.

That's my honest advice giving you the benefit of the doubt.

However, my gut tells me your plans are an attempt to line your pockets taking advantage of suckers who you have no respect for at all.

[dbneeley]

The Andrew we see in your video is credible as a man who would be seeking a Russian bride and hence have respect for his peer bride seekers and concerned with the demise of the bride industry. Linked to your online persona, however, all credibility is lost as it's hard to believe the man who posted thousands of posts belittling the men who seek foreign brides, likening their search to the buying and selling of a product and telling them to seek equals amongst their peers back home (good advice in general by the way) is now deeply concerned for their search for true love.

Likewise, the pompous and superior internet entrepreneur AndrewFi of the forums loses his edge when we see the pudgy amateur 'Amway salesman' behind the mask. It's like the unveiling of the Wizard of Oz and frankly makes me embarrassed for taking you somewhat seriously in the past.

Gentlemen,

While I think as an Internet marketing exercise Andrew's efforts in this case are somewhat laughable, I at least give him credit for having a method to his madness.

I believe he could have been far more effective by doing it somewhat differently, but that is not to say he has no aims in mind for what he is about, or that it is illogical when those aims begin to be known.

Now, it's true that if I were seeking someone to engage in actual Internet marketing, after this exhibition I would likely not bother to solicit Andrew's help (at least if this is typical of his methods), I believe being dismissive entirely is not warranted at least until the other shoe drops.

As I understand it, all will begin to become clear a few weeks from now.

David

[acctBill]

Shadow, please remove the link to my copyright work, you are a moderator on this forum and thus responsible for what appears. By posting this document as a moderator you have taken yourself outside of the safe harbor protections that the webmaster might otherwise have relied upon.

Unless you or another moderator removes that link I will approach the host for this site and insitgate a DMCA takedown notice.

I do not have to make explicit distribution restrictions to protect my intellectual property. My copyright is implicit at the point of creation under US law. (We can assume that as Dan is a US resident/citizen and the site is hosted from the US that US is the applicable law.)

Andrewfi just a reminder and I'm sure you've been told this, but for purposes of commentary, criticism, news reporting, research and teaching limited portions of copyrighted material can be used without obtaining the rightholder's permission.  In the US this is called fair use, in the UK it's called fair dealing.  This concept of use of copyrighted material for  purposes of commentary, criticism, news reporting, research and teaching is even in the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works which in turn means it applies to all countries that are signatories to the Berne Convention.

 

[Shadow]

Shadow, please check your PMS.

Check yours and please answer my question.

[Maxx2]

 all credibility is lost as it's hard to believe the man who posted thousands of posts belittling the men who seek foreign brides, likening their search to the buying and selling of a product and telling them to seek equals amongst their peers back home (good advice in general by the way) is now deeply concerned for their search for true love.

Would this be similar to me setting up a website advising men on how to find a perfect Russian wife and living happily ever after? BTW I never opposed the process just didn't have any success doing it.

[Jooky]

Would this be similar to me setting up a website advising men on how to find a perfect Russian wife and living happily ever after? BTW I never opposed the process just didn't have any success doing it.

Ha ha. It sure would be!  

Well, as Yannis pointed out on his board this whole deal looks like a lead in toHRB's latest dating / social / multi-level marketing project Planet Love Match.



It's not clear to me if the site is active yet. Membership is by invitation only, so I guess all of us on Andrew's mailing list will get to be below him in his social pyramid if we want to join. Yay.

Andrew, I hope you're more in on the ground level with this than what it seems. If your next step is to tell us about Planet Love Match, why the strange and sneaky way of going about it? It's an interesting concept and I'm sure many people will go for it.

So let me get this right... let's say after you tell us about Planet Love Match and I go join, when I invite my friends to join, I don't get them under my pyramid because I've already sold them to you for $1 to read your e-book and you'll have invited them to sign up before I have a chance to. So you get top level access to as many as you can collect now, then second tier referral comissions to whoever else we bring in later and so on. The more top level referrals you can get right now the  better. Am I right? More or less?

Also, please tell to implement one way hash encryption on stored passwords. I was able to retrieve my HRB password through this new site which means that passwords are not storely securely enough (the same as on your site, and you should change the system as well).

[facetrock]

  Its amazing what a couple of free trips to Florida can do to some people. Makes a guy who has been railing against the industry for years finally see the light.
  In my opinion HRB is knee deep in Andrews venture.

  The problem for them is they just dont get the welcome mat tossed out to them here like they do at RUA.

 Andrew in the past has mentioned the "dirty barrel" I guess that meant anyone having anything to do with the MOB business. Looks like he and a few others have jumped in head first.

[facetrock]

  So Jooky, Amway has finally made it to the the online dating industry

[Faux Pas]

Likewise, the pompous and superior internet entrepreneur AndrewFi of the forums loses his edge when we see the pudgy amateur 'Amway salesman' behind the mask. It's like the unveiling of the Wizard of Oz and frankly makes me embarrassed for taking you somewhat seriously in the past.

[andrewfi]

  Its amazing what a couple of free trips to Florida can do to some people. Makes a guy who has been railing against the industry for years finally see the light.
  In my opinion HRB is knee deep in Andrews venture.

  The problem for them is they just dont get the welcome mat tossed out to them here like they do at RUA.

 Andrew in the past has mentioned the "dirty barrel" I guess than meant anyone having anything to do with the MOB business. Looks like he and a few others have jumped in head first.

Who has had a couple of free trips to Florida? Not I. Also, whilst to you a trip to visit a business might count as a favour of some kind, in my somewhat better off world it is not. Over the years I have spent many weeks of vacation in Florida and when I take a vacation I pay for myself.

Also, you might want to do some reading. There is nothing I have written before (as far as I am aware) that conflicts with what I wrote in Death of a Russian Bride but one learns over time and from many different sources - it would simply be untrue that my visit to HRB did not teach me anything and, as you will not have read, I actually referenced that visit in my report. Read and learn for yourself then we can have a discussion of issues raised as opposed to your prejudices and unspoken fears.

~~~~~~~~~

I have been surprised by the level of fear of knowledge shown by many posters here. Why not take an opportunity to look at what is happening in the world of the International Marriage Business/Broker and to their clients. As a tipping point approaches there are opportunities as well as threats but a blind fear and disdain of analysis or even discussion is not going to help anybody at all, least of all the people who are engaged in the process of finding a foreign wife.

[Gator]

Andrewfi,

I realize that you are busy dealing with a pack of dogs attacking your procedure.  However, some of us had substantive comments (e. g., there are many potential clients from Europe, Turkey, Oz etc. who would not be affected by IMBRA).  So far, you have ignored such comments.

[facetrock]

  Fear Andrew?? What the hell are you talking about? I can sense no fear from any poster here. I can however sense a whole bunch of bullsh!t detectors going off though. Your preaching the sky is falling. Its not. Your sensationalistic website preaching doom and gloom for all involved in finding an FSU bride is well, just not believable, sorry thats my take. Deal with the fact few men here are buying your story.
  Plus toss in your vague reasons why you need everyones email address just to read the Gospel of St. Andrew Patron Saint of Lonely Desperate Men is there any wonder your getting some crap here.
  I see no fear Andrew from anyone. Just a guy thats been called out to answer some questions and refuses to do it.

[Jooky]

in my somewhat better off world it is not

Give it up, oh mighty Wizard. We've already seen what's behind the green curtain.

Read and learn for yourself then we can have a discussion of issues raised as opposed to your prejudices and unspoken fears.

Prejudice and unspoken fears? Whatchutalkinbout? It seems that you are the only one avoiding discussing what your project is really about. How about answering the many questions that have been posed to you?

So let's discuss.

1) In your report you claim that Yahoo and Bing will not accept ads using the words Russian Bride. Yet a quick search on both sites shows many sponsored ads using these terms.

So in your report, what are you refering to? Do you have evidence from Yahoo or Bing to back up this claim?

2) What in your report do you specifically inform us about that hasn't been already discussed on these forums? Aside from Yahoo and Bing purportedly blocking ads nothing I read in your report was news to me.

3) What did your research consist of? Did you interview any agency owners in Russia or Ukraine? Did you interview any past or present female agency clients? Did you gather any statistics?

4) Is the solution that you promise at the end of your E-Book going to be "Planet Love Match"?What is your involvement with Planet Love Match and how is this related to your E-Book?

[ECOCKS]

Ahhhhh, the plot thickens.........

While there are several of the same people on the four boards I know of, it seems to just be flying over the heads of this crew that the reaction of their target audience is generally negative. The same questions get asked and the same ignoring of them or stutter-stepping occurs in attempting a cryptic, mysterious response worthy of inviting your friends to an Amway recruiting seminar.

Intuition tells me that the speed dial system is working and there's a lot of "Who knew they would take it this way?" and "Damn, I thought they would bite on this bait!" going on somewhere behind the scenes.

Setting the grapevine abuzz is part of a good marketing program, destroying what little remaining credibility you possessed in the process is generally not.

[Jumper]

Jooky-

Planet Love Match

Actually an interesting concept, and i'm surprised someone hasn't put forth a pyramid type, social network before.
(someone  may have, i m unaware though)
It certainly has potential to be a big success.



"If" marketed and applied to the FSU/ western dating circles,I could certainly see a man signing up,
 and RW willing to sign up..


Some interesting twist would be perhaps requests from some RW to pay their initial sign up fees.


Also how the new *looming*  regulations would effect it..
and its marketing?

Where did you hear about PLM?


Black helicopter theory #1-
 
Quite the ummm *interesting*  name, all things considered?  

With the ongoing talks between them, it could be the collaboration of these various forum owners , and agency owners like EE/HRB/ DM/ AWeb etc?
Nothing wrong with that , and might  explain a lot of things.



Andrewfi-
 i do not see fear..?

I see a somewhat natural reaction ,considering:

1.the topic at hand ,and it is internet forums after all, where black helicopters and tinfoil hats abound.
(sometimes with good reason)

2.your past 'net persona

3.how the topic was presented, and continues to be.


I wish you well in any venture?

[Jumper]

Setting the grapevine abuzz is part of a good marketing program, destroying what little remaining credibility you possessed in the process is generally not.

black helicopter theory number 2  

*if* an invested owner , as example  forum owners or  CEO of HRB, or Aweb etc....

wanted to set things a buzz ,a bit, it IS a good avenue !! despite negative reactions,
especially if you distance yourself from the sacrificial lamb..






seen anything like that on the forums lately???


now where DID i put that tin foil?

 

 

[Jooky]

AJ, Planet Love Match was mentioned by Yannis on his site. There are articles advertising Planet Love Match on Manny's real deal (or whatever it's called) blog, where Andrew's report is also promininently displayed.

After reviewing Planet Love Match, I completely get it.

The site basically sets up the HRB / RLM model but modifies it so that it no longer can be considered an International Marriage Broker and thus can avoid complying with IMBRA and similar statutes.

The fee schedule is clever and allows the site to be considered a normal dating site where all customers are treated equal, while still allowing agencies to participate without having the girls pay. The fake video chat girls can stay in business, agencies overseas can still get involved but everyone pays equally so there is no marriage brokering going on. How?

Posting (publishing) your video costs nothing.
Watching a video costs 1-2 credits per minute.
Sending emails is free.
Opening them costs 2 credits.
Sending a video message is free.
Opening it cost 4 credits.
Placing phone calls however cost money.
Receiving them (overseas) is free.

Getting the picture?

Looks like all the HRB / RLM girls are already in the database. If you're going to sign up now while the pickings are good sign up through my pyramid please.

Well, apparently the exchange of direct contact is allowed. That's a step in the right direction.

I hope I didn't ruin Andrew's surprise. Why all the mystery?

[LEGAL]

Oh, and to Tim, Legal, Ade and any others who love to jump on any passing "Lets beat Manny with a stick" bandwagon, I am not connected at all to this report as has been comprehensively discussed elsewhere already.

Really? Please show us the bad guys who "beat Manny with a stick" in this thread and particularly my post where I "jump on you", otherwise your statement is far from the truth, but it is not unusual.