Another newbie

[Muzh]

Equal?!? How the heck can you even begin to think that much less believe it? You just told us you have no idea how she feels or what she thinks and you've been hanging around and spending your way silly for her company for a while now? Equal? LOL.

She got you in a serious state of confusion and you're going to try and tell me you're equal to her? She'll laugh at that one too I bet.

I believe he meant that they looked at each other as man-woman, not father-daughter.

Look, not saying it's you, but I've seen enough men ask a woman out and when she tells him she doesn't see him in that manner, he then assures her they can just go out as 'friends'! Weeks and a few hundred/thousand dollars later, these guys cop a 'tude about the woman disbelieving how cold and distant she is. LOL.

Well, so far I've read that she still wants to hang out with him and she has not given him that "I like you like a brother" routine, which is good.

Here's another you can take with a grain of salt. You'll find MANY WMs going to FSU trying to date FSUW (or any women period) by spending their way into a woman's heart. There's a guy here not too long ago who was dating a woman 20 years his junior (almost like you) and he was spending serious money on the gal and he comes here asking if there's anything wrong with her, or is there something he needs to know about FSUW, because he hasn't even yet gotten any tongue action with the gal, much less any type of squeeze. Imagine that. The guy flies halfway around the world for a set of blue balls...LOL.

Agree that it is foolish to buy into a woman's heart. However, he stated that she spends her own money and whatever money she got from him, she returned.

You wanted an opinion I gave it to you. You want someone to stroke your silliness, there's a few here who'll be glad to do so for you, too. There's a lot of 'experts' here who have done exactly that. So as always, be all you can be anyway you want to be. 

Know and understand what you want, then go out & get it. If it isn't there, move on.

I don't know about stroking silliness but if you are refering at things not making sense, tell me when falling in love makes sense.

GQ, if she is not for him time will tell. If he goes into this that she will not go for him, then he will go nowhere. It is true that for him not to fail he better do nothing. So I guess he has to try something IF he has to fail. It reminds me of years ago when I was young and foolish. At my favorite hangout with my buddies and in comes this stunning babe. With her was a no-so- appealling woman (aka dog). They sit at a table in the bar area as to say "Who will talk to me?" You guessed it, all the guys were threatened by her beauty. The best excuse was that she was probably waiting for her boyfriend. Since I have no shame I went and started talking to her. After a while the other lady left. The guys were trying to get in but she just ignored them. She told me that seldom any guy will approach her. I told her that the other guys, who BTW were in better shape than me, were trying to talk to her. She saw what happened and she told me so. I was the REAL MAN.

Life is like a basketball game, if you don't shoot you don't score.

[GQBlues]

I believe he meant that they looked at each other as man-woman, not father-daughter.

Well, so far I've read that she still wants to hang out with him and she has not given him that "I like you like a brother" routine, which is good.

The story line goes..

I get her laughing and when we go out we have fun...but when it comes to touching her...even to hold her arm as she gets in my car she immediately pulls away...when i told her i had plans to retire and move away she told me not to...that is the closest I have got to her even acknowledging that she thought of me at all...

Not much of a man/woman relations there either...so, no, I disagree. But that's just me perhaps...

Agree that it is foolish to buy into a woman's heart. However, he stated that she spends her own money and whatever money she got from him, she returned.

Prior to a late arriving disclaimer, this is what he previously stated..

She doesn't ask for anything but i still give her what i can...I know she has had it tough and i would like to make it easier but not at the cost of me personally...I really do care about her but don't get the same vibe back...i know there are cultural differences and she only dated russian men who are..well i guess different i don't know...sometimes I feel like i am just a handy guy to have around....should i keep trying or just call it a day...i know i can't promise her the world but i can promise her a world and it can be anything she wants within my means.

Sounds a lot like Social Security. Lay the money down and expecting a return sometime later that likely will never come. Dunno There's too much 'here, how'bout a nice cute Teddy Bear' move to me...

I don't know about stroking silliness but if you are refering at things not making sense, tell me when falling in love makes sense.

Hhhmmm...Fall in love with a woman a man who admits to not understand much less know? In that context, it sounds more like 'lust' to me and nothing deeper than that. So I don't believe 'love' has much to do with this one.
 

GQ, if she is not for him time will tell. If he goes into this that she will not go for him, then he will go nowhere. It is true that for him not to fail he better do nothing. So I guess he has to try something IF he has to fail.

That's the general consensus, I agree. But right now, he doesn't even know what it is he wants nevermind the gal.

It reminds me of years ago when I was young and foolish. At my favorite hangout with my buddies and in comes this stunning babe. With her was a no-so- appealling woman (aka dog). They sit at a table in the bar area as to say "Who will talk to me?" You guessed it, all the guys were threatened by her beauty. The best excuse was that she was probably waiting for her boyfriend. Since I have no shame I went and started talking to her. After a while the other lady left. The guys were trying to get in but she just ignored them. She told me that seldom any guy will approach her. I told her that the other guys, who BTW were in better shape than me, were trying to talk to her. She saw what happened and she told me so. I was the REAL MAN.

You're preaching to a nasty choir boy although I appreciate the 'shout-out'. I've said here before there's better than a good chance the prettiest women around are also likely one of the loneliest ones around. There's nothing more entertaining than watching absolutely clueless rabid men circling around a pretty woman. Then retreat to the bar and buy themselves a few more beer and ultimately go home - alone. Only to talk about the woman amongst themselves the next day about how snobbish she was. LOL. Yup, I've seen that happen with my boyz, too...in more than a few occassions.

Then, men who couldn't even begin to dream of being with a pretty woman much less be with, automatically pegged that notion as a bad tip. So the story lines goes on for some of these boys..

Life is like a basketball game, if you don't shoot you don't score.

I often thought it falls more in line with...Life's almost like a basketball game except you shoot first before you dribble..

 

[Faux Pas]

other then that GQ it seems you have had some bad experiences so I will take the rest of what you said with a grain of salt but thanks anyway for the input...she is a lady and doesn't shag, that much I know.

Whoaaaaaa Nellie!!!!

She is a lady and doesn't shag? In your world prowler, are those two mutually exclusive? If so, that may be the root of your problem. Take my word for it, she does shag. Obviously, she just isn't doing it with you.

For a good looking successful guy in his 40's (that easily passes for 30's) that has no trouble snagging the local poon, why does this lady get a pass from what is normally required in most relationships? Intimate discussions and physical intimacy are a requirement or you have nothing more than a friendship.

Looking at this from another perspective (mainly hers), you are acting like a 10 year old handing out a valentine. You can't close the deal because, you won't ask for the order. She is hanging out with you for a reason. What that reason is, you need to determine. You've stated you were "helping her out" and then you say she pays you back.

You're not being completely honest here prowler or you are purposely leaving out some very important facts. No need to answer this: If you are the Sugar Daddy and she isn't "shagging", no doubt that is why she doesn't want you pulling away. You are a good stream. If you are on the up and up, she does repay your "help", she can do that being a friend and may just like hanging out with you.

If you want to close the deal, you have to ask for the order.

[tim 360]

Hey AJ we have been seeing each other socially since the end of August...she takes me out as much as I do her..Hey Maxx...I am going to try that...make excuses to not be around and well...see if she misses me...I thought of that a couple times then off I go r

Prowler you have added alot more info especially the fact that you two spend alot of time together and to you she is COLD.  Maybe she is only interested in you as a social friend.  I say that because if a guy spends that much time with a girl/woman  usually there are the "come 'hither" signals which both males and females transmit and receive to each other unconsciounsly.  If interested, there will be invisible pheromones circulating in the air and body language and gestures etc which signal interest and I do mean sexual and romantic interest.  It's natural and all part of seduction and romance and the human dance.

I am getting the feeling that she ain't sending out those pheromones and signals which you should have picked up on.  If you think that maybe you have bad reception then just ask her.  If she is digging you as mate material you will get a good answer and if she ain't interested in you as a mate--well, then you'll know that too.  I don't see why this is all such a big deal for you...it's elementary romance 101.

[chivo]

To the OP. If you want anything to do with this woman stop waffling and make your move. You sound like a teenager who just starting to date.

The age gap is no big deal no mater how young you look. Bottom line, don't treat this woman like an AW. Make sure she knows it's her that you want in no uncertain terms. Be agressive, be focused, be a man. Give it your best shot and let the chips fall where they may, win or lose.

Otherwise , move on and stay friends.

[Anotherkiwi]

...It reminds me of years ago when I was young and foolish. At my favorite hangout with my buddies and in comes this stunning babe. With her was a no-so- appealling woman (aka dog). They sit at a table in the bar area as to say "Who will talk to me?" You guessed it, all the guys were threatened by her beauty. The best excuse was that she was probably waiting for her boyfriend. Since I have no shame I went and started talking to her. After a while the other lady left. The guys were trying to get in but she just ignored them. She told me that seldom any guy will approach her. I told her that the other guys, who BTW were in better shape than me, were trying to talk to her. She saw what happened and she told me so. I was the REAL MAN.

Life is like a basketball game, if you don't shoot you don't score.

...You're preaching to a nasty choir boy although I appreciate the 'shout-out'. I've said here before there's better than a good chance the prettiest women around are also likely one of the loneliest ones around.

I was in a big city in Russia a few months ago when I met (not just SAW) the most beautiful woman I've ever set eyes on.  The way I've described her to friends is to compare Angelina Jolie (or whichever other movie star/model etc rocks your socks) with the average girl walking down the street that you would mentally rate as a 6 or 7...now imagine that Angelina is that 6 or 7   .  This girl is 23, and in a city of over a million people has no boyfriend  When I asked why not, she rather sadly sad "I don't know."  For me, the only remotely possible explanation is the one that you two guys have given - every male in town is so intimidated by her beauty that they are just too scared to make a move.

Unlike so many beautiful women, this one is really nice - easy to talk to, good English (she spent one or two semesters in the USA as a student), and definitely unpretentious.  She was so gorgeous that I was tempted to ask her out myself - if only I was 25 years younger!

[poacher]

I will use a baseball analogy here. The OP needs to step up to the plate and see if he can get on base. Right now all he is doing is taking batting practice at home. That doesn't help you on game day. It does not sound like she is a fastball ball pitcher, but more of a slider, breaking, and curve ball. The good batters can still hit those. Sometimes you have to even swing at one in the dirt to get the pitchers attention. If you strike out, strike out swinging, not looking at it hoping for a free pass to first base.

I dated many women in FSU for years looking for my wife. They only want a man, not a boy. This does not mean being an asshole, but being strong, confident, and self assured in their eyes. You said that you are except when around her. No wonder she is not playing tonsil hockey or giving you Siberian bear wrestling match. Maybe your kindness is being portrayed as weakness. Again, don't be an asshole, just strong.

Finally, there is no way you can be as handsome as myself. Just not possible.

[GQBlues]

Finally, there is no way you can be as handsome as myself. Just not possible.

 

Absolutely *stupid* line! (btw- I thought it was headboard hockey?)


*urban speak: stupid = great, good, etc..

[JR]

If she pulls away when you touch her, she isn't interested in you romantically.

Time to move on.

Duh....why does this need pointing out???

In your mind she is out of your league hence your hesitancy/clinginess around her. Forget what she wants, do what you want and let her respond. If she repsonds negatively move on.

Stop being co-depeandant, worrying about "her needs" and "how tuff" she's had it. She's a big gril, let her take care of herself.

Start taking care of yourself, if she doesn't want to participate in that, get out. She'll live and she'll probably start to come around, but like it's already been said, she ain't into you...even with the occassional dowy eyed "you're the only man in the world" look.

Come on, if she's that messed up do you really want that monkey digging it's claws into your back? You're not going to fix her, she's going to mess you up man! She's gonna mess you up good!!!!

Keep her as a good friend? Why? So you can feel like the knight in shining armor? Does it feed some need inside you? You have no other friends?


You get so many days....what are you doing with them?

[JR]

...and you're supposed to be the senior..

Based on your follow-up posting, I think what you need to reconcile with yourself is either you're satisfied being her buddy or you're not. It now seem apparent you're the only one who's pre-occupied with any thoughts of romance.

Are you satisfied with being just a friend (honestly), or is it all or nothing with you (no need to answer).

At 28, trust me on this, there's a greater likelihood she'll shag anyone she wants at any given time she finds very attracted to than not. Up to this point, it isn't looking too good for you...you can hang around for crumbs and the possibility someday she'll weaken and submit, but at 40, who looks like he's in his 30s and one who don't have a hard time getting dates; I seriously question the truth in the assessment of yourself or the (real) extent of your social life. Any man who have a healthy social life would never be clammoring after one woman who obviously is NOT into him.

Listen to those words of wisdom...if she ain't doin you now she won't be doin you when you're married. Do you really want that? I mean really, stop and ask yourself that question....becuase she is showing what it'd be like to be married to her, frigid, at least towards you.

[Jumper]

Whoa.. This thread is still going?

5 months..of dating..

Sometimes this forum opens my eyes, i actually thought i was a nice guy.

I see now that i'm not!!


I can tell you i wouldn't *date* anyone ,(to me *date* means romantic interest of both parties)
whether RW, AW, or siberian polar bear,
from august to january , 5 months? and *not* know if we were romantically involved.
(i'm no brad pitt ,and i look over 40..=P.. but  i'm far more used to *her* kissing or hitting on me, or wanting me to intiate romance,  by first date, much less 4th or 5th date,  I just thought that's how it worked generally with all couples?
that they both pretty much knew there was murtual attraction and interest )
 

 Seriously i just can't relate,in my whole life i always knew before, or during the first date if the person was romatically interested or not.They let me know by thier mannerisms, words or actions.
They wanted you to kiss them,and you knew it.
Never had a cheek presented instead  either.
(which would be ok,, and i'd just know where we stood at that time)

If you want to know a cultural difference, then factor in that it isn't all that unusual for couples to be
discussimng  marriage in that 5 month time frame.


You state you are dating quite regularly!
 
i do not have some silly 3 date rule or anything..
but if dating regularly,and i dint know if she was romantically interested by the third or fourth week ,
i'd certainly be outta there! It's just not in my realm of experience..
and i wouldn't want to figure it out.

In my experience a woman that is actually interersted in you romantically ,
 lets you know pretty dang quickly, in fact its normally why you asked her out in the first place.
Now the tango of interesting romance might go on a few dates,and be quite fun or entertaining,
both parties would know where it was leading.

 I have had very good female friends,
but i have  never had a just friends "date", not even one.

Having 5 months of them .. seems certainly to mean just friends in the biggest boldest FONT possible.


I dont think there is anything you might do to change that, in my opinion,
she lumped you into the "just friends" vs "guy i WANT to kiss "" pile long ago.



Readers digest version:

To me it's  as simple as this,

she wanted you to make a move at the very least 4 months ago..
or she never wanted you to.

The fact you havn't yet,
either relieved her as she viewed you from the beginning as just a friend,
or frustrated the heck out of her..left her wondering if therre was something wrong with her, or if you were straight.
there, yeap, i said it.
 

(in my experince many RW would just have asked you that straight up long before now though)

[prowler911]

Well.. Here I am again lol..sorry i couldn't get back sooner...I am a deputy marshall and was pretty busy for awhile...well she picked me up at the airport when i came in and took me out to dinner(airplane food is azz)...well i decided to do a little prying at dinner and told her i really wanted her to answer my questions...it turns out that the russian men she dated decided she made a cute punching bag after a night of drinking so that kinda explains the reflexive nature..the few american men she has dated have not been much better...one decided to use her acura to see how big of a dent he could kick in it and the other stalked her so bad she got fired from her last job....add in the russian aversion to police and i had a pretty big hill to climb...so i guess it doesn't have anything to do with "eggs" or anything else...she just wanted to be sure i wasn't another schmuck.. after all that she found it hard to believe that a guy can really be nice and not be destructive to her emotionally or physically...so I am about half way up the hill and it is worth the climb.

[JR]

And you will forever pay for the sins of men past....damaged goods. You can't fix her.

She will push your button until you start responding the way she expects all men to respond and then she'll say to herself, "See, I told you all men are alike."

[Anotherkiwi]

And you will forever pay for the sins of men past....damaged goods. You can't fix her.

She will push your button until you start responding the way she expects all men to respond and then she'll say to herself, "See, I told you all men are alike."

Sadly, I fear that you may be right.  No matter how much she may tell herself that prowler911 is a nice guy, she will ALWAYS have what happened to her before in the back of her mind.

[dbneeley]

To some extent, I disagree with the last several posts.

Someone with such an unfortunate history is not necessarily a lost cause at all. She may simply take more time and understanding than some of you gentlemen would be willing to expend.

Personally, I would regret even thinking about any individual as "damaged goods"--that seems a bit arrogant to me, with a marked lack of human compassion.

At the same time, it is quite true that each person must decide for himself whether the potential benefits outweigh the possibility of a more difficult than average time it takes to develop a level of trust required--if, indeed, the problems can ever be truly overcome. That is impossible to determine from a distance and may be difficult at first hand.

Still, Prowler is enjoying the times they spend together. At some point, knowing the history involved, it may be worthwhile for the lady to go to a therapist if she is interested in getting beyond the problem--and, perhaps, in knowing if she may have subconsciously attracted the sort of sick b*****d who would do some of those things. At the very least, to rule out that possibility--which may be part of what is weighing on her mind now that may interfere with a closer relationship.

One thing seems clear, though--if Prowler breaks through her reserve, it is quite likely to be a very intense and intimate relationship--but at the same time, if he continues to seek this, he may feel some great pressure not to abandon her for fear of the results that may accompany that abandonment. Thus, he had best be very sure that this is something he wants.

David

[Muzh]

I couldn't agree more with you David.

To call this lady damage goods and dismissing her right of the bat without even knowing her is a little presumtious. She may blossom into a loving and caring wife if treated with the right attitude. You'll never know.

What do we know is that Prowler has shown enough patience for her to get close to him. No wham-bam-thank you-mam here.

[Faux Pas]

To some extent, I disagree with the last several posts.

Someone with such an unfortunate history is not necessarily a lost cause at all. She may simply take more time and understanding than some of you gentlemen would be willing to expend.

Personally, I would regret even thinking about any individual as "damaged goods"--that seems a bit arrogant to me, with a marked lack of human compassion.

At the same time, it is quite true that each person must decide for himself whether the potential benefits outweigh the possibility of a more difficult than average time it takes to develop a level of trust required--if, indeed, the problems can ever be truly overcome. That is impossible to determine from a distance and may be difficult at first hand.

Still, Prowler is enjoying the times they spend together. At some point, knowing the history involved, it may be worthwhile for the lady to go to a therapist if she is interested in getting beyond the problem--and, perhaps, in knowing if she may have subconsciously attracted the sort of sick b*****d who would do some of those things. At the very least, to rule out that possibility--which may be part of what is weighing on her mind now that may interfere with a closer relationship.

One thing seems clear, though--if Prowler breaks through her reserve, it is quite likely to be a very intense and intimate relationship--but at the same time, if he continues to seek this, he may feel some great pressure not to abandon her for fear of the results that may accompany that abandonment. Thus, he had best be very sure that this is something he wants.

David

Ahyeahhh. Good luck with THAT one. Are you suggesting that he send her to a therapist?

I do agree with you on the damaged goods statement. Very presumptuous for anyone to suggest another is damaged goods. But, the woman apparently does have some unresolved issues and prowler cannot "fix them". If you are suggesting that he can IMO, you are being very misleading.

[dbneeley]

Ahyeahhh. Good luck with THAT one. Are you suggesting that he send her to a therapist?

I do agree with you on the damaged goods statement. Very presumptuous for anyone to suggest another is damaged goods. But, the woman apparently does have some unresolved issues and prowler cannot "fix them". If you are suggesting that he can IMO, you are being very misleading.

No, I was not suggesting that Prowler "send" her anywhere, but that she would probably benefit from it if she chose to go. Now that they are discussing some of her past experiences, it could be worthwhile to make the suggestion that she consider help.

I fully agree that one person cannot "fix" another one, and a relationship based on that sort of caretaker approach is not a very healthy one...and, ultimately, would probably not last.

David

[groovlstk]

Over the years I've noticed a lot of introductory posts from men who were concerned that their GF was a cold fish. The OP usually makes some rather blunt statements about her behavior. The response from the RWD peanut gallery is immediate and intense, and the advice is always to run like hell. Invariably, the OP scales back his tone in the wake of the responses and begins making excuses for why she behaves this way, usually with some awful stories of abuse at the hands of an ex-BF (always a Russian man, BTW), and sometimes even apologizing for the nervous-Nelly tone of his first post.

Before people jump on me for being insensitive, let's just say that no one except this woman knows why she has no affection for the OP, and the reasons are pretty much irrelevant as the end result, for him, is likely misery and emptiness.

In all the posts I've seen over the years about lack of affection, etc., I have yet to see someone report back that his patience and nurturing turned things around. That happens only in romantic comedies.

To the OP: my thinking has changed on a million topics related to this pursuit, but the one thing I still believe after four years of marriage to a wonderful woman is to never, ever settle for someone who isn't crazy about you. You deserve better.

[Daveman]

Over the years I've noticed a lot of introductory posts from men who were concerned that their GF was a cold fish. The OP usually makes some rather blunt statements about her behavior. The response from the RWD peanut gallery is immediate and intense, and the advice is always to run like hell. Invariably, the OP scales back his tone in the wake of the responses and begins making excuses for why she behaves this way, usually with some awful stories of abuse at the hands of an ex-BF (always a Russian man, BTW), and sometimes even apologizing for the nervous-Nelly tone of his first post.

Before people jump on me for being insensitive, let's just say that no one except this woman knows why she has no affection for the OP, and the reasons are pretty much irrelevant as the end result, for him, is likely misery and emptiness.

In all the posts I've seen over the years about lack of affection, etc., I have yet to see someone report back that his patience and nurturing turned things around. That happens only in romantic comedies.

To the OP: my thinking has changed on a million topics related to this pursuit, but the one thing I still believe after four years of marriage to a wonderful woman is to never, ever settle for someone who isn't crazy about you. You deserve better.

I'm with Groov on this one. The story of the abusive ex's rings of the same ole same ole.  Perhaps she was abused, who knows but her?  It's also a good way to keep him at arms length AND dreaming of possibilities.  Patience and nurturing are permission and a green light to continue with more of the same.  Crumbs are crumbs... go for the loaf.

And reiterating the last line:
>>but the one thing I still believe after four years of marriage to a wonderful woman is to never, ever settle for someone who isn't crazy about you. You deserve better.<<

That quite well sums it up...

[prowler911]

I have just re read all the posts in this thread i started and i noticed that most people pick a few words and make that the main focus of response and then rip it... ok i get it there big guy i shouldn't have put looks into it can ya leave it alone and move on...i did that because i have read other posts and it was used as a source of personal info... i never used the term cold fish.. i said she is cold at times...I never stated when those times were,no one asked, just made their own assumptions..And no she doesn't shag and I am sorry that because the woman you happened to have came from that type of background where putting out the goods was common place..is it so hard to believe that she is just a nice girl...I came here looking for help in a cross cultural relationship and instead i was made to feel like an ass,not by all but those of you who tried to hurt know who you are..... I was told to dump her...told to run..I have no problem waiting for her to be comfortable with me..as one individual likes to point out every chance he gets,I have had my wham bams..I was an LAPD sgt for 10 yrs before going to the federal marshalls for the last 13..in L.A. in uniform it isn't hard to do..I don't want that anymore..I tried the best i could to get as much info in as i could..i have never done this before and in truth expected people to ask me more exact questions based on what i wrote and go from there...guess not...I do not beleive in the damaged goods aspect either...and i have..after hearing about her past trials and tribulations..broached the subject of therapy to her and she was receptive but wary..i told her i will do it with her and that seemed to ease her mind some..so that is still on the table for later discussion. thank you dbneely and muzh i have given your advice serious thought and consideration and i want to thank you for understanding everything i wrote not just 3 words...I am taking her to New Orleans over valentines day....lets see what that brings...I have been in long term relationships but this is the first one where we were friends first and really got to know each other before we got to know each other...and I'm ok with that now.But i do see now why some of you are still looking after many years...maybe some of you can learn from my inexperience..Hey Dave i do agree with you...i do think she loves me but just wants to be sure of herself first...Thanks Jon

[I/O]

And no she doesn't shag and I am sorry that because the woman you happened to have came from that type of background where putting out the goods was common place..is it so hard to believe that she is just a nice girl.

Nice girls shag.

prowler: Having watched this thread ebb and flow (as they all do) I'm still of my original opinion, big brotherish is how she is seeing you but I do have some concerns and one of those is your level of financial support, yet you mention an "Acura" at one point. Unless it is an old version, they aren't the poorest car on the road (sure, not the highest either). I'm wondering why she needs your "support"?

Before you toss the teddy out of the cot, pack up and stomp off (as you are hinting at doing), consider your own comments in so far as you............

came here looking for help in a cross cultural relationship

............and the answers you have received. First, everyone (albeit in their own way) needs to establish what type of relationship you actually have and based on what you've outlined, it appears you may have a friendship which may require maintenance sponsorship or you may have an embryonic romance but at this point that seems a stretch.

I'd suggest you take on board everything and NOT simply the "feel good" comments which are little more than blowing hot air up your arse. Everyone means well (in their own way) and you will find the ones who peel your skin off will be the first to stand by you when things get really tough.

[Daveman]

I have just re read all the posts in this thread i started and i noticed that most people pick a few words and make that the main focus of response and then rip it... ok i get it there big guy i shouldn't have put looks into it can ya leave it alone and move on...i did that because i have read other posts and it was used as a source of personal info... i never used the term cold fish.. i said she is cold at times...I never stated when those times were,no one asked, just made their own assumptions..And no she doesn't shag and I am sorry that because the woman you happened to have came from that type of background where putting out the goods was common place..is it so hard to believe that she is just a nice girl...I came here looking for help in a cross cultural relationship and instead i was made to feel like an ass,not by all but those of you who tried to hurt know who you are..... I was told to dump her...told to run..I have no problem waiting for her to be comfortable with me..as one individual likes to point out every chance he gets,I have had my wham bams..I was an LAPD sgt for 10 yrs before going to the federal marshalls for the last 13..in L.A. in uniform it isn't hard to do..I don't want that anymore..I tried the best i could to get as much info in as i could..i have never done this before and in truth expected people to ask me more exact questions based on what i wrote and go from there...guess not...I do not beleive in the damaged goods aspect either...and i have..after hearing about her past trials and tribulations..broached the subject of therapy to her and she was receptive but wary..i told her i will do it with her and that seemed to ease her mind some..so that is still on the table for later discussion. thank you dbneely and muzh i have given your advice serious thought and consideration and i want to thank you for understanding everything i wrote not just 3 words...I am taking her to New Orleans over valentines day....lets see what that brings...I have been in long term relationships but this is the first one where we were friends first and really got to know each other before we got to know each other...and I'm ok with that now.But i do see now why some of you are still looking after many years...maybe some of you can learn from my inexperience..Hey Dave i do agree with you...i do think she loves me but just wants to be sure of herself first...Thanks Jon

First off Jon, let me state that no matter what they say... I didn't do it!  It was the one armed guy!

More importantly.. read Groov's post again just for grins.  What he described is a scenario which has played out here countless times.  Granted, when someone first arrives here, the responses from the gallery can be a little overwhelming as members to tend to come across as a bit harsh.  The one thing you will rarely hear here is what you want to hear.  And that's a good thing.  I'm not saying you did, but if you *did* come here for some pats on the back and enthusiastic romantic chants "oh, she'll come around.. it's all normal and good"... well, as you see it just ain't going to happen.. and again, that's good.  It's entirely up to YOU to understand your own situation.  Members here will toss out suggestions, advice, food for thought, and often in a very straight forward manner that can be a little unnerving for new people. but at the end of the thread, it's your life, your time, your money, your emotions, your deal.  It's always good to take in everything and spit out what doesn't apply... we don't actually know what does or doesn't as we only have your words/descriptions to go by.  Now that being said... what you have described is a basic carbon copy of a long drawn out heartache which the cousins of which have graced these fora many times before you.  You may be an exception to the usual progression, as again, only you actually know your situation.  I don't know of a single member here who wishes failure on others... all try to point out potential pitfalls, etc., usually, though not always, from experience, or from experiences we've watched unfold on these pages over the years.

Bottom line is, don't take any of this personally... take what you will and keep your eyes open.

Dave

[Muzh]

Daveman, he didn't come here for a "pat in the back" as you say. He was very clear when he said he wanted to know if his GF's behavior was consistent with RW's behavior. The guys proded him and he gave some more info, and that was his  big mistake. Everyone turned to the mamby-pambyland former drill sergeant as a therapist.

Gentlemen, ten years ago I was another prowler. Trusting a group of people who'd been there and done that. Well, I was told I should drop her, she was a visawhore, scammer, devilwoman. (A little exaggeration on the last one for dramatic purposes. But seriously someone called her a visawhore.) One guy told me to stay away from the list until I come back from my first trip. I owe that guy my marriage. Ten years strong and no looking back. So please choose your words carefully. Does he really need to know what some clown did a few years ago? Really?

To prowler, I have no clue if her behavior is consistent with RW's under the same circumstances. I can tell you my wife tends to internalize things. However, I've seen other RWs who are extremely overt in similar situations.

Tell you what. Take a deep breath and don't get anymore into this thread. If you have any other questions about Russian culture ask. Any questions you have about her, talk to a qualified therapist.

[Faux Pas]

prowler

There is loads of good advice in this thread. It is worth every penny you've paid for it. Keep in mind nobody is here to give you bad advice and no one here wishes you failure. There are other forums where the slap on the back and cheerleading commence with no warnings to the signs you have knowingly or unknowingly stated.

No, the behavior of this RW is not consistent with RW in general or women in general. There is something else going on. By your own admission you are making excuses for it because she is fun and pretty to look at.

She does shag. She isn't shagging with you. Shagging and being a "good girl" isn't mutually inclusive especially in Russian culture where sex isn't a defining trait of one's morality or have the stigma attached to it as prevalent in the West.

You don't like the message you've received because it isn't what you wanted to hear. That doesn't change anything other than your personal opinion of the forum and those posting here. It is what it is. There is more experience probably in this thread than most anyplace you can find on the web to pose such questions. You didn't like the answers, okay fine, don't take the advice but please, don't attempt to pooh on the messenger because you don't like the message.