Eliminating the Agency

[LoneWolf]

Hi everyone!  It has been a while since I've been here.  I decided to start my search again recently, and am currently talking with someone from A Foreign Affair.  The problem is that she doesn't have an email address available.  We seem to be very interested in each other, and I really want to keep talking to her, but I want to be able to talk to her outside of the agency and I don't know how to proceed.  I want to eliminate the agency for two reasons:

• We like to write long letters, and she likes to send me her most recent photos.  This is a good thing!  But AFA charges a fortune for this!  If I were to keep this up, I won't be able to afford a trip to see her!
• I want to know that I am talking DIRECTLY to her... so I know for sure that what I am reading came from her, and not someone at the agency.

I know the agency will block any personal information we would try to send each other.  Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks!

LW

[JohnDearGreen]

I want to know that I am talking DIRECTLY to her... so I know for sure that what I am reading came from her, and not someone at the agency.

I know the agency will block any personal information we would try to send each other.  Does anyone have any ideas?

I asked that same question to an AFA manager years ago.  He suggested a one minute translated call and I could ask her for her phone number.  Of course, she doesn't have to give it to you.

I see the minimum call now is 4 minutes at $5.99 per minute.

[Jack]

LoneWolf, first let me say this information I am about to give you is from an agency.

When first reading your post and these loooong letters, these many photos she likes to send, kaaa-ching goes the old AFA cash register in my mind.  You sure your really writing this woman?   You sure this woman really likes to write looong letters?  Most women do not. And yes, I know, we will hear from one or two men here whose now wife liked to write looong letters, their will always be exceptions to everything, I prefer not to deal with the exceptions but the norm.  Most Ukr/Rus ladies do not prefer to write looong letters, they prefer to meet as soon as possible.

And your lady has no email?  Humm, ok, well, hope she has a cell phone.

Ok, here is something to try.  What city does the woman live in?  What is her age, what is her height?   Now do a little homework.  Find several agencies, large agencies on the web as well as small agencies located in her city.  Go to these agencies in her city first.  Go to the search engine,  put in your ladies age plus one year and minus one year her age. Put into the search engine her height plus a couple of cm's and less a couple of cm's.  If you are lucky, and this usually works about 40% of the time, you will find this woman on another agencies site and hopefully you can get her contact information from this site.

If this does not work then you want to try to request a 3-way conference call. It is the number one way our guys are able to get the direct contact information from the beautiful model type women guys are writing, dreaming about, on Anastasia. Try the same with AFA. Arrange a 3 way conference call and you should be able to get the ladies contact information during the call. 

And their is one last thing you can do as a last resort if none of the above work but you will need to PM me for this.

[neo]

To be fair to the women involved in this they do get written to by an AWFUL lot of nutters.

Before you think its strange that a COMPLETE STRANGER doesn't want to give you all her contact information, ask your mother/sister/daughter/female co-worker at home - "would you give your home address, phone number, email" to a completely strange guy you never met before on the web?

Also try it on a domestic match.com type site.

Obviously agencies use this to their advantage if they want to play silly beggars but i do know a large amount of girls who like the privacy protection agencys give them.

Not sure there is anything "normal" about a young woman saying its OK for completely strange men to ring her up at all hours of the night or hire private detectives to "follow her about" when they have never even met her.

Not defending agency behaviour - but there IS 2 sides to every story, and i do know of several perfectly innocent girls who have been accused of all sorts because they refused to give out personal contact info due to them (not surprisngly) not wanting their mother to open letters full of photos of random western men with their wedding tackle on full show standing to attention.

Personally speaking I have learnt to take the "agency shenanigans" as par for the course, even if you have a phone conversation with the girl how do you really know its her? unless its a skype call, and then how do you really know the agency hasn't just paid her to do it?

the reality you will never know anything is genuine until she drops her draws and doesnt ask for the money up front.

the best way to deal with agency letter shenanigans is write short, visit quickly, have a contingency plan.

[LoneWolf]

Thanks for the advice, guys!

John, I haven't tried the telephone call.  I figured the agency wouldn't permit us to give any contact information in a 3-way call... but I guess I was wrong.

Jack, the thought that she might not be real has crossed my mind.  It's one of the reasons why I want to eliminate the agency from the equation... to see if she is real.  Your idea of looking her up on other agencies is a good one!  Unfortunately, I could not find her on the agencies I have searched.  =(

Neo, I never said I thought it was strange that she doesn't provide her email address.  I don't blame her for it.  I wouldn't provide it either if I were in her position.  I just said that without her providing her email address, I can't think of a way to talk to her without using the agency.  And yes... I guess I'm going to always be somewhat skeptical until I actually meet her in person.

I have thought of something that might work.  She knows my full name, and she has the very same photo that I have on my Facebook page.  I could ask her to look me up on Facebook and send a friend request.  I can ask her that without transferring any personal information at all!

LW

[BC]

Maybe arrange a video chat and hold up a card with your phone number and email addy.

[ECOCKS]

Make the phone call and clearly state your email. Ask for her email plus phone number. Then state that is the end of communicating through the agency and you hope to hear from her soon. End the call.

Then don't translate any additional letters, do any more 3-way calls, etc. Not that hard.

Best of luck in your search.

[viking]

I knew several women who had multiple email accounts. It helped separate friends from others. I find nothing wrong in a genuine woman giving you an email address. Bear in mind that this in itself is just another step in communications. The next step is the phone number and best of all would be a video skype call. Only then can you match photos/face/voice in one package.

And if she is really interested in you, I would not accept the " I have no computer access...no cell phone...no home phone...no email address". Make it clear that if you cannot do direct communications you have no choice but to move on. My wife used to go to a friends house to compose emails before she had her own computer.

[neo]

LW.

Wasn't really implying that you were suggesting it strange of her not to give you the info, just that if your plan does not work out to get her in to direct communication it doesn't always mean shes a wrong 'un, I understand your reason's for wanting out of the agency loop, but unfortunately you can often be working against the tide - local agency owners can be quite manipulative in getting their "product" to stay in the store so to speak but good luck in your endeavours.

[Jumper]

I agree on contact info maybe not being given quickly..

but disagree on a RW looking for a foriegn man ,not giving the email contact .

it depends on the situation? and it is afterall just an email.
 
In this case we have a guy who has been trading LOOOOOOONG letters,and she is replying with looooong letters.

for how long?

He knows she  is working with, or through an agency,, some local affiliate in her city,
she may not want to release the info,
but she DOES have an email address.
(or could have one in 32 seconds)

There are countless free emails available , FSU based, if shes going thru some agency , and
has never heard of mail.ru or cant figure out how to sign up,, when she has interest in meeting foreign men?
I'm not buying it.
She can make up a  throw away one if shes paranoid ( understandibly perhaps)
and anyone with this concern is smart enough to already have several.Seriously, these women are not 5 years old
or in some village in Chad. They are mature intelligent women in a modern society dating internationally.

 If your mother ,sister, or nieghbor was actively looking for a husband from any country and putting up a international dating profile, then they have an email address.
If concerned they have a throw away or proxy/ redirected one.


Why would she NOT want to be in contact with a man she has interest in,
 and has already traded long emails with?
Most RW would want to speak with anyone they had traded very many looong letters with.

It can be a fear of not knowing the language well enough.
It can be she thinks it too soon.. (from loooong letters not likely)


I know most of the various reasons, most of you do as well,but not many of those various reasons holds any good will for lone wolf.

It really is that simple.

she either doesn't want to ,
or  the local affiliate is controlling her actions, by the fact shes working for them, or thru them.


If you call her, give your email, she'll take some of the the lead if seriously interested.If she doesn't ,you are chasing mirages.
If you are worried about translation, or the message getting thru to her on the phone...
perhaps even make up one easy for her to access or remember like..

  wolf at mail.ru
  LW at hotmail.com  


good luck

[ML]

Another idea.  Create a new email account for any woman you are interested in . . . for her, not you.  Tell  her the address and also the password that she can change when she starts to use it.

That way you can start to communicate and she won't have to worry about getting junk and obscene messages into her original email account.  I have done this before, and the gals appreciate it.  Of course, some of them already know how to do this themselves; but not all  do.

This, of course, requires that you  have a way of communicating this info to her.  Several alternatives for doing such have been suggested by others in this thread.

[Jooky]

To be fair to the women involved in this they do get written to by an AWFUL lot of nutters.

Before you think its strange that a COMPLETE STRANGER doesn't want to give you all her contact information, ask your mother/sister/daughter/female co-worker at home - "would you give your home address, phone number, email" to a completely strange guy you never met before on the web?

Also try it on a domestic match.com type site.

Makes me wonder what the rest of you here have experienced. Is it normal for women not to give out their email / Skype / phone number? In my experience, I've never had a woman online refuse to give me her direct email / phone number / Skype etc. when I ask, which is usually right away.

I can't imagine a real woman not giving out her phone number after many long letters. By that time she should at least know you enough to qualify you as a non-nutter (unless she likes nutters).

I know my sister and female friends have given out their contact info to strangers on the net (emphasis on strange) because they've met plenty. Not sure if my Mama is picking up on men on the net though. I sure hope not. 

[ECOCKS]

Makes me wonder what the rest of you here have experienced. Is it normal for women not to give out their email / Skype / phone number? In my experience, I've never had a woman online refuse to give me her direct email / phone number / Skype etc. when I ask, which is usually right away.

I can't imagine a real woman not giving out her phone number after many long letters. By that time she should at least know you enough to qualify you as a non-nutter (unless she likes nutters).

I know my sister and female friends have given out their contact info to strangers on the net (emphasis on strange) because they've met plenty. Not sure if my Mama is picking up on men on the net though. I sure hope not. 

Exactly Jooky.

I've had women I just met at bars and on the Internet give me addresses and phone numbers. Yet, the fantasy is strong in many people and the attempts to justify the myths and maintain agency business models are always floating around out there. After three or four letters I cannot imagine a valid reason for a serious woman not to give you her phone number and contact info.

[Doll]

I see the option "Order addresses now" (in AAA). Why don't you do it and mail her a letter?
Years ago I got the letter (snail mail) from AM with his phone and email. He did it through AAA.

[Daveman]

Exactly Jooky.

I've had women I just met at bars and on the Internet give me addresses and phone numbers. Yet, the fantasy is strong in many people and the attempts to justify the myths and maintain agency business models are always floating around out there. After three or four letters I cannot imagine a valid reason for a serious woman not to give you her phone number and contact info.

Exactly Jooky and Ed,
I've communicated with, well let's just say too darn many over the internet.  Every single one whom I asked for email and/or phone number gave both. Of course those were the ones that initial contact was going well such as indicated by LW.

Perhaps there are some who have a phobia of potential internet freaks but I haven't seemed to run across them. That's strictly an AW phenomenon as well as agency horse*sneep* (in the same category as "traditional" women).  If she doesn't want to give you her contact info, it is for one of two reasons.. the girl really ain't into you or the agency is writing her letters.  There's an infinitesimal chance that she could be playing a chase game with you (they do love their games), but those kinds of games are usually real time and not over initial meaningful contact. There is none of this "Eeeeeek, (gasp), he may be an internet weirdo" timidity.  If they like your photos, if you pique their interest, they'll give you the chance to *show* them you're a weirdo.  

My guess is agency horse*sneep*

If she sends you her "new photos" in every email, that's NOT a good thing (IMO).  I've yet to have any sincere RW do this.. a photo or two at the beginning, and then more over time as things progress, but to inundate you with her photos sounds like a classic scammer/agency hook job.  

I see the option "Order addresses now" (in AAA). Why don't you do it and mail her a letter?
Years ago I got the letter (snail mail) from AM with his phone and email. He did it through AAA.

and this isn't a bad idea if you're really interested in her.  The letter might actually reach the real girl,who may not have a clue who you actually are.. but contact you anyway.. if she likes your photos you send with the letter,AND you pique her interest.. 

Anyway..good luck! Let us know how it pans out...

[Misha]

Before you think its strange that a COMPLETE STRANGER doesn't want to give you all her contact information, ask your mother/sister/daughter/female co-worker at home - "would you give your home address, phone number, email" to a completely strange guy you never met before on the web?

I won't have to ask my wife as she gave me her cell phone number with 20 minutes of chatting online. And, she wasn't really an exception in that regard as most women in Russia will give you their number before meeting if you seem a decent enough guy. However, I wasn't writing women through an agency, but the mamba network (http://www.singles.ru)

[Doll]

If he is really interested, express mail is the answer. Mail the letter with all your information.

[tim 360]

Exactly Jooky.

I've had women I just met at bars and on the Internet give me addresses and phone numbers. Yet, the fantasy is strong in many people and the attempts to justify the myths and maintain agency business models are always floating around out there. After three or four letters I cannot imagine a valid reason for a serious woman not to give you her phone number and contact info.

Exactly right on Jooky, AJ, Ecocks, & Daveman.  The old "myth" that a woman can't set-up her own free email account etc or doesn't have cell phone is part of the old "myths" created by the agencies.  Ten years ago girls had no problem setting up an free email account and today many have 2 cell phones.  My bet is the affiliale agency is juicing-up the long letters and photos to keep you on the pay-tp-play-hook.  Jack's PM method may be your easiest and cheapest way to find out or...just buy her address from AFA and mail her. 

[Doll]

Oh, sorry- AFA, not AAA 

[FredC]

Another thing to try is doing a search for her on VK.com. It is their version of facebook.com. All you need to do is enter her first name, city and birthday and you can limit your search to a reasonable number in most cases. Then if she has a page, you can write her there directly for free.

[SomeGuy]

Makes me wonder what the rest of you here have experienced. Is it normal for women not to give out their email / Skype / phone number? In my experience, I've never had a woman online refuse to give me her direct email / phone number / Skype etc. when I ask, which is usually right away.

I can't imagine a real woman not giving out her phone number after many long letters. By that time she should at least know you enough to qualify you as a non-nutter (unless she likes nutters).

I know my sister and female friends have given out their contact info to strangers on the net (emphasis on strange) because they've met plenty. Not sure if my Mama is picking up on men on the net though. I sure hope not. 

I rarely had a problem in getting an email address.  I did come across a few without computers or home Internet, but even those would provide an email address when asked, some offering first as well.  For a time, my wife would go to an Internet cafe or her friends place; I don't think a single day passed without any communication there.  I would definitely find it unusual in nearly all circumstances if someone chose to not share an email address.  Phone numbers, full name, address - I can understand waiting to be comfortable and to determine that you are for real to an extent.  It isn't quite the same as meeting someone locally, time zone differences as well as possibly former experiences with time wasters and such.  Having said that, I had phone numbers anywhere from a few days to perhaps 3 weeks at the longest when I wanted one. 

I did run into a confirmed case where skype videochat just wasn't an option due to the connection quality, even skype voice was a challenge, so YMMV, but assuming interest and a good rapport was developing, I would expect an email address quite easily/quickly, and a phone number within a month at worst assuming slow general communication or other circumstances. 

[Doll]

Another thing to try is doing a search for her on VK.com. It is their version of facebook.com. All you need to do is enter her first name, city and birthday and you can limit your search to a reasonable number in most cases. Then if she has a page, you can write her there directly for free.

Yes, I would check Odnoklassniki, Facebook and myspace if you know her first and last name.

[LoneWolf]

Thanks for all of the advice everyone!  I really appreciate it!  I have noticed that there has been a little confusion in this thread.  Please allow me to explain the situation a little better.  It is not that she doesn't want to give me her contact information, it's the agency.  The only way I can contact her is either through express mail or a phone call through the agency.  They filter any personal contact information in the express mail system.  I have called AFA and they confirmed this themselves.  Neither she nor I may include a phone number, email address, or physical address in our express mail correspondence.  Any attempt will be filtered.  I figured the same would be true about the phone call, but I didn't ask.

I have executed my Facebook plan.  She knows my name, she knows what state I live in, and she has my picture that I use as my Facebook avatar.  With these three items, she could find me easily.  By asking her to find me in Facebook, I am not revealing any personal contact information.  I just don't know if the agency will see it that way.  I haven't heard back from her yet... but I will give it a few days.

I was not aware of vk.com.  I tried the site out and found her!  Thank you so much for telling me about this site, FredC!  I have not tried Odnoklassniki, yet.  I will give that a try also.  Thanks, Doll!  I will wait a few days and see if I hear back from her after asking her to find me in Facebook.  If I don't hear anything, I will try to reach her through VK.

Thank you so much everyone!  You all really helped me out when I thought the situation was hopeless!  I now know she really exists... but the question now is if she was really the one that was sending me messages.  With the help of you guys, I will know for sure very soon!  =)

LW

[Daveman]

I was not aware of vk.com.  I tried the site out and found her!  Thank you so much for telling me about this site, FredC!  I have not tried Odnoklassniki, yet. 

No need to wait a few days, take the bull by the horns and go get her.  If she's into you, she'll be glad you found her, if she gives you the cold shoulder for "looking" for her... then that's still an eye opener.  Get the pay per play agency out now. Don't wait around for her to decrypt your facebook challenge to the castle, go get her. 

[LoneWolf]

Yeah.  I think I will.  Thanks, Daveman.  =)  My only reason for waiting a while is because I didn't want to sound desperate... or worse, like a stalker.