Sisterly Visit

[Vaughn]

My SIL applied for a non-immigrant tourist visa in the summer of 2007 and was turned down
for unspecified reasons - except that she failed to prove sincere intent to return. I received
much good advice back then from William, BC, groov and others....  but as it turned out, an
appeal of the decision would not be considered by the USA Consulate in Moscow, even with
support by a Congresswoman. This decision may not be appealed.
 
She is 43 now. Married over 20 years, daughter at Kazan State on scholarship. Owns a car
and drives, successfully self-employed - spa/salon business in the city center. Have their
own flat, Mama lives nearby in my wife's flat.

Anybody out there who's had a sibling visit the USA lately - who could offer up-to-date pointers?

Also, the money angle - still better for the visitor to finance his/her own way?

Letter of invitation - yea or nay? Does it even matter anymore?

Thanks,  Vaughn


 

[viking]

Since the last situation resulted in a non appeal ending, would this be another (new) application that would not have a look back to 2007? Or once you are turned down, with a non appeal, you are done? Normally, with everything she has going for her, it should be a done deal.

[Vaughn]

Viking, the denial letter included a statement that she is "welcome to reapply when her
situation has changed"....  the only thing that's changed significantly is that nearly four
years have passed. I should not overlook that she has grown even more stable as a member
of the emerging middle class.

We felt like it should have been a done deal. We're having to assume that the interviewer,
a Russian woman who failed to even make eye contact during the interview, was bent on ruining
another's day. She succeeded.

[BC]

How was income / earnings / savings documented?

In many countries it's a 'catch 22' situation regarding undocumented income. Were tax / bank documents included in the last interview?  Lease contracts for the business locale rental might be a plus, showing onward commitments. Does she have a credit card?

Is there a convention or supplier in the US she could visit?

What were the contents of the document package she last took to the interview?

[Vaughn]

What were the contents of the document package she last took to the interview?

The usual recommended stuff - letter of employment (now she is self-employed, and your mentioning
the lease contract is good advice), certificates of ownership (flat, automobile, dacha), familial docs
like birth certificates, daughter's university scholarship, marriage certificate, etc.

If you recall, BC, I stated in 2007 we issued a letter of invitation stating that we (Elvira and I) were
handling all expenses - which raised a few red flags here. You mentioned this:

It's pretty simple.. Consulates like to see someone that has cash in their account to cover costs of the visit.  Is quite the same here in EU.  My inlaws are visiting now on a Schengen visa that was 'backed up' by some funds in their account.  They are staying for 90 days so the minimum was around 5k US.  Guess where that came from..

I think consulates see 'guarantees' along the lines of 'money talks, bs walks'.

Our "plan" this time is to transfer funds gradually through my MIL's debit card to fund such
travel. As an aside, I don't think a few thousand dollars will raise any eyebrows as they have
recently bought a late model Toyota Corolla for cash - several times more than a USA visit would cost.

Credit card - probably, as she buys a few products from the USA that are shipped directly to her for
her business. The quantity, however, comprises a small fraction of her overall gross - so a "visit" to
that supplier (aside from being misleading) would yield poor return on investment if it were to be
scrutinized.

All she wants to do is briefly visit her sister and me and see some things American...  

[BC]

Vaughn,

Your suspicion about finances may be correct.

I think you have all 'duckies' lined up quite well, so as long as she is able to finance her visit and prove it,  it's definitely worth a try.

The past will probably not haunt her. With a 'changed' financial position (after all it's been several years and she pinched her pennies), might be enough this time around.

She has compelling reasons to return and can support her trip.  Have her also get one of those travel health insurance policies and throw it in too.  Only costs about 30 bucks or so.

[viking]

Some of these people who do the interviews must be a bit sadistic. The embassy in Warsaw generally has a good reputation for approving K1 visas but one woman put my wife through hell and back. Imagine getting a text message at 3AM requesting a few pages of emails. I don't know if it was a test of her being able to contact me and my responding so quickly at this ungodly hour but that was what she wanted and fortunately we were able to do it. I think that in hindsight, after going through some other issues with her son where the consulate general became involved, I would have requested that my wife ask for a supervisor and ask why we had to go through such an ordeal.

If your SIL is given any hassles this time, I would suggest, kindly, that a superior become available to do another review. If all documentation is in place, why not? I know that if you were there, you would not have taken no for an answer. And it would not hurt to send an email to the embassy where she will be applying and asking, very specifically, what is necessary/required. Having their response with her and showing she met all requirements, you are then down to " you said I need this and here it is so what is the problem".

[Chicagoguy]

It might help if she has visited other countries. Maybe Egypt or Turkey plus a Schengen Visa country.

But I had one girlfriend turned down who was similar to your SIL plus she had been to the U.S. once before and had just returned from Paris. Also, she owned a huge dacha just outside Moscow. An immigration attorney told me you can never tell what the interviewer will be like. When my wife was interviewed 2 years ago the woman interviewer next to her was just like the one your SIL had.

It is not a fair process !!

[Gylden]

Vaughn,

Tell her not to feel too bad about not being able to appeal, because there is no appealing a visa denial under INS 214b. Which sounds like the reason for denial in her case. It just means they were not satisfied/convinced from the info she presented.

Here is an excerpt from the ... http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/denials/denials_1361.html

"First encourage your relative, friend or student to review carefully their situation and evaluate realistically their ties. You can suggest that they write down on paper what qualifying ties they think they have which may not have been evaluated at the time of their interview with the consular officer. Also, if they have been refused, they should review what documents were submitted for the consul to consider. Applicants refused visas under section 214(b) may reapply for a visa. When they do, they will have to show further evidence of their ties or how their circumstances have changed since the time of the original application. It may help to answer the following questions before reapplying: (1) Did I explain my situation accurately? (2) Did the consular officer overlook something? (3) Is there any additional information I can present to establish my residence and strong ties abroad?"

[SMS60]

Sometimes, I wonder if red flags go up when it looks as if someone is trying too hard to convince someone of something.

Just a thought

[Chicagoguy]

Sometimes, I wonder if red flags go up when it looks as if someone is trying too hard to convince someone of something.

I agree. It might help to appear confident and relaxed.

[mies]

Vaughn, I agree with Chicagoguy - i think that visiting other European countries would help. I think you can build her "returning home" history about same way as you build bank credit history.

I do not think the problem was in that you wrote you will cover her expenses. I have invited my mom to visit me. In invitation letter I wrote that I will cover all her expenses during the trip. I also sent her my bank statements and the letter from my employer - that I am in good standing, good employee, and so on.
My mom presented letter from her employer, marriage certificate, proofs of real estate ownership, bank statements (but she doesn't have much there).
She got 5-year tourist visa.

In her passport she had a valid at that time Shengen visa, and 5-6 trip to Shengen countries in 3 years preceding her US visa application. She enjoys traveling abroad now, as she can afford to do it, and trip to US aligned well into this trend.

I think one possible caveat in yours SIL case was that she is self-employed. Maybe if she rephrases "self-employed" into "own a business" it will be viewed differently? Just a thought.

[JR]

Dang Vaughn that BLOWS!!!!

I brought my MIL over once, sometimes twice a year for ten years and had absolutely zero problems. She always paid for her own ticket and I paid her back once she was here, couldn't let the DIL know about it)))) Even brought him here once without any problems.

I did provide Affidavits of support but other than that is was just a no problem situation. I think you got an interviewer who got up on the wrong side of the bed that day. Try again, you've got nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Good luck, hope it all works out for ya.

[Vaughn]

I think you got an interviewer who got up on the wrong side of the bed that day. Try again, you've got nothing to lose and everything to gain.

JR, I hope you're correct on both counts - Venera travels back to Moscow this week for a second attempt. We are
very hopeful - and she is well armed with a pile of convincing documentation. Meanwhile we are laying out a travel
plan to show her some the USA. Keeping our fingers crossed !

Vaughn, I agree with Chicagoguy - i think that visiting other European countries would help. I think you can build her "returning home" history about same way as you build bank credit history.

I failed to address this issue first raised by Chicagoguy - and yes, she's been to Turkey and Egypt, at least twice.
But she had that experience prior to the first interview three years ago - and those journeys didn't seem to make
the difference we needed. Now she's been to both Turkey and Egypt again in the past year or two.

[Vaughn]

Interview was today - denied again....

Having to accept that she's a bad candidate for a tourist visa is difficult for me.

My wife's heart is broken today. Me, I'm torn between anger and sadness.

[Muzh]

Interview was today - denied again....

Having to accept that she's a bad candidate for a tourist visa is difficult for me.

My wife's heart is broken today. Me, I'm torn between anger and sadness.

Geez Vaughn, sorry to hear about that. What did you say in the invitation letter? Also, what did she say to the consul? Did you sent an email to the consul "smoothing" the way?

Man, this sucks.

[Vaughn]

Man, this sucks.

That's how we feel, Muzh. Her instructions were to fill the app online, then to bring all documentation
to the interview. Her interview date was set rather quickly after application, nothing unusual there.

She arrived on time, and when called was immediately dismissed - no reason stated. That's the hard
part - if we only KNEW what disqualifies her, I could sleep better. Maybe even correct it? But this
hiding behind general statements I find unacceptable.

I sent the following e-mail this afternoon:


Dear Sirs,

  We just learned that my sister-in-law, Venera V--------, was again turned down
for a Tourist Visa to visit us in the United States. To be honest, my wife and I are at
a total loss for words as to why Venera was so summarily dismissed without even the
courtesy of an interview. Her interview was scheduled for today, April 6th, 2011.

 My wife, Elvira -------------- became a naturalized citizen on February 3, 2010, as
did her daughter, Lenara ---------. Both are very productive and law-abiding citizens.
It was their simple desire to have their sister and aunt, Venera, visit for a duration of three weeks.

 Venera is married for 20+ years to the same man, owns her own business in Yoshkar Ola,
owns and drives her own automobile, has a daughter currently enrolled in a university. is
financially self-supporting, owns a flat, and has numerous relatives in the Republic of Mari-El.
She has no intention of overstaying a visa, nor can she ever imagine doing such a thing. I could cite example after example of single middle-aged women and men being issued tourist visas successfully to visit their relatives in the United States. Why Venera has now been rejected twice baffles me -  and I believe as United States citizens we are entitled to specific answers.

  Awaiting your reply, I remain,

Sincerely yours,


I intend to become a nuisance to these people until we get specificity. I'm willing to go up the ladder -
however long it takes, and however high the ladder may take me.

[Anotherkiwi]

That's how we feel, Muzh. Her instructions were to fill the app online, then to bring all documentation
to the interview. Her interview date was set rather quickly after application, nothing unusual there.

She arrived on time, and when called was immediately dismissed - no reason stated. That's the hard
part - if we only KNEW what disqualifies her, I could sleep better. Maybe even correct it? But this
hiding behind general statements I find unacceptable....I intend to become a nuisance to these people until we get specificity. I'm willing to go up the ladder - however long it takes, and however high the ladder may take me.

"Sucks" is way too soft  - I'm a peaceful guy, but even I would be tempted to rearrange the body parts of this particular interviewer (think "Mack the Knife" and the reference to a "jigsaw with a couple of pieces gone").  Chivo posted recently that, of all the people he knows in Moscow who have applied for tourist or visitor's visas, only one or two had been declined.  To deny your sister-in-law seems to fly in the face of any logic which allows young, unmarried students or similar to get a visa with no questions asked.  To not even get the interview beggars belief.

The only other thing which I thought might be relevant is where she lives - Yoshkar-Ola has had a pretty bad reputation for scammers over the years, and just maybe the interviewer thought he was dealing with a really high-class one who had made an incredible effort to set herself up as the queen of the cons.  Highly unlikely, I know, but the only other option seems to be that he/she was under some black magic spell!

Unlike the diversity of opinion on so many threads, I think that EVERYONE on RWD will be rooting for you here, Vaughn.

Good luck in your search for truth and justice. 

[viking]

Vaughn, I hope you addressed that email to Richard Beer, Consul General. When I read the embassy info is clearly states that they issue thousands of visa each year and treat everyone with respect. I would throw that right back in their face. By any chance, do you have the name of the person who did this " non-interview" ?

[GregfromGa]

I hate this for you man. Everywhere you look there is someone who was issued a visa. When my M-I-L was turned down, I went to the embassy myself. I don't recommend the cowboy route I took. Mama got the visa the next go around. Stay on them. Call your congressman. He has staffers in place to address such issues. Call his office every week and then everyday until you get some results.

[GQBlues]

Letter of invitation - yea or nay? Does it even matter anymore?

I'm sorry to hear of your family's frustration over this, Vaughn. Based on the things you've said, I'm stumped as to why she's continually turned back. I'm sorry, too I didn't glanced at this until now...

FWIW, when I first invited my wife's entire family, the very first thing I've done is write a letter of invitation to each one of them (one for Mumski and Popski), then wrote a separate letter to the embassy directly letting them know what and the why with the invitation. Mind you, at the time, my wife was just approved for her K-1 visa and she still has not even arrived yet. Her sisters at the time were 27 & 29 years of age, both with Russian passports. In the letter, I was inviting her family to come to the US so they can join, enjoy and witness their daughter/sister get married.

Basically I told the embassy that I assume full responsibility for the welfare while in-country and will be providing both lodging and proper medical insurance during their entire stays. I then gave them proper identification, full contact information, and the 'A' number of my wife's filing identification. I then copied the letters and individually sent one to each one to take with them for the interview.

Everyone, including her small nephew were apporved without a hitch.

So, I'm thnking maybe next time doing the exercise may help some....

Good luck.

[BC]

Really sorry to hear that Vaughn.

We went through this process a couple months ago for a new visa for my wife.

I can tell ya that the online visa application is quite a bear to get through.  It took us two days to finally get it completed and photo uploaded.  There were technical glitches and sessions crashed on us multiple times.  We swore and cursed the whole time.

The questions asked were quite intrusive and complex.  I can easily see someone having problems or making a mistake during the process.  It is composed of several sections / modules.

Also at the end of the process, there was a confirmation page that needed to be printed out and taken to the interview.  It had a photo and barcode.  Did your SIL take something similar?  Example below.

I can see someone being immediately turned away if they did not have this confirmation page, but that would be about the only reason I could think of where an applicant would not be interviewed.

We did do a cover page with one line purpose of visit and a listing of documents provided (bank statement, credit cards, tax returns, home ownership, travel insurance etc etc).  We did not include invitations as this was our second time going through the process.

They did spend a considerable amount of time perusing the documents (45 mins or so) before calling her to ask a couple of questions and advise her that the visa was approved.

[Muzh]

Vaughn, make sure you get a reply to your email and that it answers your questions. If not, they should have an 800 number you can call and ask for the Consul and demand an explanation for such rude behavior. I don't know if a Congressman or Senator would have much influence on this unless you talk to any of them personally, not their aide or spokespreson.

Good luck and don't give up.

[Faux Pas]

Vaughn, make sure you get a reply to your email and that it answers your questions. If not, they should have an 800 number you can call and ask for the Consul and demand an explanation for such rude behavior. I don't know if a Congressman or Senator would have much influence on this unless you talk to any of them personally, not their aide or spokespreson.

Good luck and don't give up.

This is actually better advice than you expounded on. Vaughn I am afraid most of your inquiries, emails and letters to the Consulate office will fall on deaf ears. If you know your U.S. Senator personally you could get her an interview rather quickly. If you don't know him/her all is not lost. Contact your Senator's office. Most Senators have an affairs person to deal with just such eventualities. It will take longer but likely you will eventually get her an interview and someone to at least look closer at your plea and her application.

Unfortunately the embassies, USCIS and the Consulate are just another cog in the red tape bureaucracy that is our government. They don't give much of a rat's azz about you but they do listen to Washington connections.

[BC]

Lets not forget that the Department of State is part of the Executive Branch of Government.

That's why the Legislative and Judicial branches can't touch DOS and can only politely ask or enquire.  That's how they keep folks in Guantanamo Bay and can have immigration policies without providing an appeal process.  Even the Supreme Court would not do anything.

Considering the branches are not getting along at all lately, probably better off writing the President instead.