Bonjorno from Ukraine

[Kuna]

Welcome to RWD Maria

Of course you're aware some small minded people in Russia will look down their noses at someone frOm Ukraine just like some people in Moscow look down on people from Siberia.

My wife is Ukrainian who identifies more as ethnic Russian as she has Russian parents and she is/was disillusioned with the crazy patriots in Ukraine who sought to divide Ukraine from it's close neighbor.

Perhaps vwrw was a little hypersensitive thinking you were lying about your identity as she was caught out doing so here previously.

In any case it's not important, we're always interested to hear the opinions of new rw members here and I'm sure the vast majority will appreciate your input.

We don't always agree On every topic but the diverse opinions generally enrich the info here, nOne more than the rw opinions usually.

welcome again!

Kuna

[Muzh]

Welcome to RWD Maria

Of course you're aware some small minded people in Russia will look down their noses at someone frOm Ukraine just like some people in Moscow look down on people from Siberia.

My wife is Ukrainian who identifies more as ethnic Russian as she has Russian parents and she is/was disillusioned with the crazy patriots in Ukraine who sought to divide Ukraine from it's close neighbor.

Perhaps vwrw was a little hypersensitive thinking you were lying about your identity as she was caught out doing so here previously.

In any case it's not important, we're always interested to hear the opinions of new rw members here and I'm sure the vast majority will appreciate your input.

We don't always agree On every topic but the diverse opinions generally enrich the info here, nOne more than the rw opinions usually.

welcome again!

Kuna

Kuna, if you don't mind. Maybe you meant nationalists instead of patriots. Big difference. I do agree, sort of, that the nationalists are doing Ukraine no favors. Nationalism in any form is nothing more than racism. However, let's be clear; Ukraine is a sovereign country.

My wife is also a Ukrainian national and she will tell anyone of her Russian heritage. However, she (and all her family for that matter) will tell you she is Ukrainian and not Russian. I've also seen some of her former co-workers get on her face because they tell her Ukraine is not even a country. IF I would have been born in Xapkib I would be a little bit more than pissed. But that's just me.

[SANDRO43]

yes it is easy to remember your name for me...it is latin origin meaning 'star' or 'sea'......

Actually, the name Maria/Mary derives from Hebrew מִרְיָם Miryam, the sister of Moses and Aaron (Exodus). Some maintain it's also the feminine version of the Sabinian praenomen Marius (probably from Oscan Mamers, the god of war Mars/Ares) but, although it was used to designate the family of Gaius Marius in its plural genitive form (gens Maria, as Caesar's was gens Iulia), I never came across it in classical Latin literature as a woman's name.

Bust of Gaius Marius (157 BC – 86 BC)

I'd exclude a Latin derivation from 'star' (stella, sidus or aster) - or 'sea' (mare) because mària would be its plural nominative (i.e. seas) .

Miryam was the name of the mother of Yeshua ben Yosef (Jesus), which accounts for the popularity of Maria as a given name in Christian times.

[Gator]

Perhaps vwrw was a little hypersensitive thinking you were lying about your identity as she was caught out doing so here previously.

"Picking scabs."  In fact, that was so long ago that the scab had fallen off.  In the intervening years, VWRW has shown herself to be an insightful (not inciteful) contributor.

[inciteful is not a word, yet I could not resist].

[vwrw]

"Picking scabs."  In fact, that was so long ago that the scab had fallen off.  In the intervening years, VWRW has shown herself to be an insightful (not inciteful) contributor.

[inciteful is not a word, yet I could not resist].

Gator, thanks for your compliment.
I am afraid that Kuna’s wounds from the time of my prank have not healed yet. I feel willingness to help him get over it. I have benefited so much from the incident that I think I should do something for him to repay the good I have gained.

I have already apologized for hurting your feelings, Kuna. That did not help you. Maybe if you told to me which opinions of mine made you suffering and why, I would be able to reconsider them and explain them in such a way that would not hurt you?

[Kuna]

Kuna, if you don't mind. Maybe you meant nationalists instead of patriots. Big difference. I do agree, sort of, that the nationalists are doing Ukraine no favors. Nationalism in any form is nothing more than racism. However, let's be clear; Ukraine is a sovereign country.

My wife is also a Ukrainian national and she will tell anyone of her Russian heritage. However, she (and all her family for that matter) will tell you she is Ukrainian and not Russian. I've also seen some of her former co-workers get on her face because they tell her Ukraine is not even a country. IF I would have been born in Xapkib I would be a little bit more than pissed. But that's just me.

Muzh,

You're right about patriot/nationalist...  actually I remember standing while writing the post on my iPhone looking for the word and getting fed up with my fat fingers scrolling me back to the top of the page - any word would have done at the time. 

To me the whole topic is something people spend too much time on. It falls into the same basket as thought police trying to engineer a different reality over environmental extremism. 

Of course in the case of UA and RU relations any reasonable person would acknowledge Ukraine as it's own independent country,  but like so many other "sister countries" in the world there are historical and cultural bonds which can't be broken - no matter how much the thought police might try. 

My own family wouldn't feel offended at being referred to as being of Russian or Ukrainian.  The immigrated via Germany after WWII and frankly the borders weren't discussed much at all because the focus (read: obsession) was to be identified as "White Russians" to be sure people knew where they stood politically.... Of course it made no difference because all of the "misplaced persons" immigrating to Australia at the time were just referred to as "wogs".   

[Kuna]

"Picking scabs."  In fact, that was so long ago that the scab had fallen off.  In the intervening years, VWRW has shown herself to be an insightful (not inciteful) contributor.

[inciteful is not a word, yet I could not resist].

"Inspiteful" perhaps...  ???

Incidentally I've enjoyed reading vwrw's posts on several topics - especially around her studies (like the current topic she's just opened)...  but all in all leopards don't change their spots in my experience...  and her taunting of the new member (and original poster in this thread) is another good example huh?

You and I know that SOME RW have a character trait which makes them very unsociable at times - and especially towards other women.

So... way back then when all of the men were gushing over "vwrw's cousin" it was obvious to me and others that it was a facade, but even after I asked the very obvious question about her identity - the gushing kept going on and on from some who obviously have poor judgement. 

I wanted to refresh my memory on the original thread in question and thought this comment from one poster was pretty interesting:

Guys, read this quote from Mila, it stands out to me because it just seems so heartless, and to be honest I have noticed this trait with SOME RW, you can do all for them and it's never enough, and there is very little appreciation for it.

 Mila speaks about this man, her ex fiance, as if he were a just a toy in her game of life, there are no feelings, no regrets....forget about the thousands of dollars he spent, that he changed his entire life, he let her pick out their new home, he had planned his life and future around this woman, and his love for her....but hey, she got homesick, and there are plenty of other men, so....whatever.  Wow, how cold can you be?

Another quote of how people were feeling:

Wow, this is another revealing thread: revealing how some FSUW (actually it is most of them) are self centered, conceited prima donnas with no conscience. Even more revealing is the WM who are so pathetically delusional with no self respect that they see nothing wrong with this prima donna's story and even take her side. Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.

Classic Post from Turbo here:

Here is a post Mila made on the "Desperate Women" Thread

Quote from: Mila on 08 March 2007, 17:57:26
It is funny. Each time I found a splendid man I could like to see beside me I warned him “I am a heartless bitch but life with me will be full of surprises and a half of them will be unpleasant.” Each of them thought I was kidding. Each of them was saying me similar words as you posted. Each of them wanted to marry me. Each of them I left 6 -9 months later I met.
Dear, you see, men in love are blind. It seemed to them issues from my pragmatic mind were issues from my beautiful heart.
I still hope to find a seeing splendid man who will love my pragmatic mind, not his own self – delusions about my ‘beautiful heart”. 

It seems to me if someone is honest about the kind of person they are and does not try to deceive then it is buyer beware.   I don't see a bit of problem with someone who is honest in their dealings with others.   We all have our ideas about the qualities we look for in a woman.  If Mila or any woman presents herself as she is then we have the option of accepting her as she is or not.   If someone presents themself as having goals of a happy marriage but really has a hidden agenda that is bad.   Mila just seems to be very direct and very open in how she presents herself. 

I do agree that when a woman arrives she needs a lot of attention and she did not get it.  I do agree that they both owe it a good shot at making things work.  I have heard the story before but I can't say I know enough to think anyone was in the wrong.   If men use the wrong head and overlook the obvious then they can deserve to fail.   I did that myself the last time.   I am not going to point a finger of blame at anyone.  It just didn't work.

Damn... I've wasted too much time reminiscing over those threads.  As nasty and as deceptive as those days were there was some really good, informative and lively discussion in here.

Here's two threads involving Mila/vwrw and Turbo's deception at the time and the brazen articulation of a woman's character that should STILL be a warning to all men searching for a relationship in FSU.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3966.0

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3897.0

There were other related threads I didn't bother chasing... but the threads themselves have some good debate on several topics.  (Nice to read posts from departed members too).

Gator,  I've got to warn you if you read through those threads some people's characters are going to be exposed again...  Turbo,  vwrw - AND a former members who were posting in there have proved themselves to be numb-nuts. 

Reading back reminded me though that the offence I felt wasn't vwrw's lies and deception,  it was the awful character traits shown and Turbo's pathetic defences of some really offensive things being said.

All in the same,  their relationship seems to be working for them - and for that I congratulate them.  Turbo does state in those threads that he'd effectively endorse a "deal" type relationship... one where both parties get what they want and they don't even need to base a relationship on the core values one might expect are of importance to people in an "equal marriage."



Final thought...  do you not feel uncomfortable when new members are being lined up for an attack or do you just not see it coming?

[Kuna]

Gator, thanks for your compliment.
I am afraid that Kuna’s wounds from the time of my prank have not healed yet. I feel willingness to help him get over it. I have benefited so much from the incident that I think I should do something for him to repay the good I have gained.

I have already apologized for hurting your feelings, Kuna. That did not help you. Maybe if you told to me which opinions of mine made you suffering and why, I would be able to reconsider them and explain them in such a way that would not hurt you?

Please do...  I'd love to hear the reasoning behind the cold, calculating transaction based view of relationships you articulated so finely in these threads.

To be fair...  you have found a man compliant - which is a good thing,  but.... [no, I'll hold my tongue]

There were other equally or more offensive remarks in other threads around the same time, and since,  but your apparent character is available for analysis by anyone who'd like to waste their time.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3966.0

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3897.0



I have one question for you....  Did you enjoy your little hissing welcome to the OP in this thread???  I can only assume it fulfilled your needs at the time.

[Gator]

Kuna, again, your thoroughness is impressive.  However..... If I were  to dig around your garden, I doubt that I would uncover any buried hatchets.

 

Final thought...  do you not feel uncomfortable when new members are being lined up for an attack or do you just not see it coming?

I guess I don't see it coming, or just don't care that much.  Very little in life makes me uncomfortable.  Wasn't always that way.

[vwrw]

Please do...  I'd love to hear the reasoning behind the cold, calculating transaction based view of relationships you articulated so finely in these threads.

To be fair...  you have found a man compliant - which is a good thing,  but.... [no, I'll hold my tongue]

There were other equally or more offensive remarks in other threads around the same time, and since,  but your apparent character is available for analysis by anyone who'd like to waste their time.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3966.0

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3897.0



I have one question for you....  Did you enjoy your little hissing welcome to the OP in this thread???  I can only assume it fulfilled your needs at the time.

Kuna, first, thank you for taking time to clarify the causes of your hostility toward me.  Now I can see that you dislike the way how I treat some people and my calculative approach to relationships. I admit that sometimes I forget to take into consideration other people feelings when I talk to them. Other times, more often, I simply fail to understand that a given phrase of mine may hurt the person with whom I am talking, and nice people who do NOT deserve being mistreated get hurt or offended. I am sorry for that. I feel especially sorry that I have offended you, particularly in that moment when I read about the good things you have done for the children in Ukraine.  You are a good man, Kuna.

With help of my husband, I am working to improve my diplomatic skills.  In fact, during last year or so, my way of dealing with disagreeing people is continuously praised by my instructors, so I am moving in the right direction. I do not know if I ever will become as diplomatic as Shadow, Gator, or David, but I do try to change myself.

The reasoning behind my calculative approach to relationships is simple.  I am NOT equipped to choose men the way most women do. For example, I can be disgusted by a man's appearance if he does not take care of himself, but I have never been smitten by a man's appearance.  I can be amused by romantic acts, but my heart has never been touched by them.  If I did not use my mind to analyze potential candidates to be my life partner and to calculate who of them is the best match for me, I would have no “tools” for choosing the right person. Until age 25, I had wrong criteria for the identification of the right man for me, so I made some wrong choices and the relationships did not work. I am sorry that it was painful to separate and I did all I could to make the separation less painful. At 27, I finally found out what kind of person I need for happiness, met my husband, and we are both happy with each other.

You see Kuna, it is not my calculative approach to relationships that was to blame for the broken hearts. The problem was that I initially was guided by wrong criteria in my search.

In conclusion, I want to thank you, Kuna, for one great thing that you have done for me. You were the first person who made me understanding that I was lacking diplomacy in dealing with other people. If not  you, who knows how much more time I could lose before I  would start working on my communication problem. I really appreciate your input.


I enjoyed talking to Ameli. She is a witty woman, who would not enjoy talking to her. I am sorry that my welcome turned out to be a little hissing.

[I/O]

There's more "sorrys" in there than the 26th May 1998 (Kuna'll get it).

[Shadow]

I do not know if I ever will become as diplomatic as Shadow, Gator, or David, but I do try to change myself.

thanks for the compliment. Over the years of living with Mrs Shadow, she has gained the ability to be more diplomatic, while I have learned to add some more fire in to my thoughts.
I am sure that you can do a similar thing with Turbo

[mies]

I live in Ukraine and no man pay for me! I earn my money by myself!!! It is you whom interested in money!!! Maybe I should make a bank trasfer on your credit card for you to chill out??? What you say on this SWEETY????

а вечер, меж тем, переставал быть томным  

vwrw - таки приймите меня в свои ряды :-)  
"ложечки нашлись, но осадок остался"  

[GQBlues]

а вечер, меж тем, переставал быть томным  

vwrw - таки приймите меня в свои ряды
"ложечки нашлись, но осадок остался"  

mies-

Interesting. How do you know that with certainty?

[vwrw]

а вечер, меж тем, переставал быть томным  

vwrw - таки приймите меня в свои ряды :-)  
"ложечки нашлись, но осадок остался"  

   Вот так вы меня рассмешили, уважаемая mies.    Вы давно уже приняты в наши ряды и пользуетесь большим уважением  за ваше остроумие и другие интеллектуальные способности.

[mies]

спасибо :-) я имела в виду ряды в рамках этой ветки обсуждения  :angel:

[mies]

mies-

Interesting. How do you know that with certainty?

there is one appeal and three statements in my post. Which one of them does your question refers to? :-)

Maria, welcome to the board.

[GQBlues]

there is one appeal and three statements in my post. Which one of them does your question refers to? :-)

The first line...

I took that as an implication, IINM, as the OP's quoted statement rather suggests richness borne of pleasures and convenience.   no/yes?

The ones directed at vrwr actually bought back to mind a phrase my Popski's Buddhist peers used to say...

paraphrased: "...remove the spoon and still the sediment remains...

Googled for a more accurate rendition:

-"When we are upset, it's easy to blame others. However, the true cause of our feelings is within us. For example, imagine yourself as a glass of water. Now, imagine past negative experiences as sediment at the bottom of your glass. Next, think of others as spoons. When one stirs, the sediment clouds your water. It may appear that the spoon caused the water to cloud - but if there were no sediment, the water would remain clear no matter what. The key, then, is to identify our sediment and actively work to remove it."-

I took that as saying you can relate to what she said upthread.

[mies]

This is really amazing, but you seem to come to fairly close conclusion about an essence of my statement, via convergence, from completely unrelated start.

The first statement: "the evening, meanwhile, is losing its languor" - is a cliche phrase  in russian (probably a quote from the movie, not sure which one, possibly from Alexandre Dumas), especially popular in russian forums, and refers to situation similar to the one in this thread.

The second and third statement - about spoons and the sediment - is another quite popular cliche phrase/quote. It comes from the joke:

Two families were friends. Once a family visited their friends for a family function, and lived in their home for several days. After they departed, they have noticed that the host family started boycotting them. So after a reasonable interval of time, they called the hosts to find out what have they done wrong and whether they might have offended the hosts in any way.
And the actual dialogue:
Hosts: "please, do not ever come to visit us again, we do not want to see you."
Guests: "But why? We've been friends for decades, we spend all major holidays together, we named our kids after each other, what have happened?"
Hosts: "After your visit, our favorite set of antique silver spoons has disappeared. We do not want to welcome thieves in our home."
Guests: "But we did not steal anything! How could you even think of it?!?"
Hosts: "Ok, Ok, calm down now. After few days we found the spoons. After the dinner we put them in the wrong case and forgot about it. But you know - we have found the spoons, yet hard feelings still are there. So we do not want to see you again, and we are no longer your friends."

In my opinion, vrwr has not said anything wrong nor inappropriate here.  :angel:

[Blues Fairy]

But I not the one whom Will be silent when someone insults me!

I didn't see any insults; just a little sarcasm.  Do you take sarcasm as an insult? 

[GQBlues]

In my opinion, vrwr has not said anything wrong nor inappropriate here.

Thanks for taking the time to explain mies. It fascinates me more times than not how some of the phrases my wifey occasionally uses have some very resonating familiarity with many philosophies and teachings of the Far East I've ran across before.

But anyway, I realize the cigar will remain unlit but I'm glad to know I wasn't too far off base. Thanks.

[Ameli]

to mies and to others: I think is more respectful here to chat on English language, because not everyone know Russian ... About all this sarcasm I can understand it from my friends or persons whom I know ))) ... and I think there a lot of things to talk about and  you just stick to this topic aren't you have more important things?? husbands? babies ?? Work??? 

[Gator]

to mies and to others: I think is more respectful here to chat on English language, because not everyone know Russian ...

Good point.

and I think there a lot of things to talk about and  you just stick to this topic aren't you have more important things?? husbands? babies ?? Work??? 

Let's start with work.  You seem to have some degree of financial independence.  What type of work do you do?  Do you enjoy it?  Are your skills readily transferable to the business markets in Europe, US and Australia?   

[Blues Fairy]

... and I think there a lot of things to talk about and you just stick to this topic aren't you have more important things?? husbands? babies ?? Work??? 

Let's start with work.

Are you sure the OP was suggesting to switch the discussion to work/husbands/babies?  I read her last sentence as "don't you people have more important things to do than be sarcastic here in this topic (thread)?"

Maybe Maria will please clarify?