Flakiness and focus

[Ger]

Hi,

I've been using a website to make initial contact before moving to email/skype/phone and potential meetings.

One thing I've noticed is that a lot of women, particularly from Ukraine, do not really pay attention to time or timeliness. For example, appointments that they make themselves to chat a day or two later aren't kept for reasons such as "Oh, I went to the gym" or putting me on hold for 10 minutes can turn into two hours. Also, it seems many of the women are either multitasking when they are in the middle of a conversation with me or they are talking to several men simultaneously. This makes meaningful conversation difficult. Consequently, the simple matter of just having a meaningful focused conversation a couple of times has become an important criteria.

I'm wondering if others have experienced the same and what the more seasoned have to say about this phenomenon.




 

[Faux Pas]

What website are you using?

[SMS60]

It doesnt matter who or where you are dating....... follow one rule.

Only communicate, date, or go see women who are interested in you.

If they are flaking, they are not interested. Move on.

[ECOCKS]

You need to look at what pool you're fishing in, consider your bait and change up the game a bit.

In short, find better women. That's your responsibility, not theirs.

[Ger]

Thanks for the advice. In response:

- I use Elena's Models.

- I agree with the rule. However, I'm talking about *initial* conversations to gauge interest. The issue doesn't seem to be a matter of interest. Also, most women write to me first.

- You may be onto something here. I've been using the sincere/direct approach. But I suppose it's still game that applies. So, what approach do you recommend?

[Shadow]

The fact that they write to you first does not necessarily mean they are interested in you.
Apart from that, in the initial contact you are a stranger just like the other men the woman may be talking to. Do not expect a preferential treatment until there has been time to decide there is mutual interest.

[Faux Pas]

Only a guess Ger but, if you are not holding the ladies attention and it seems to be a consistent problem perhaps the problem is more you than them? I'm sure that is not what you want to hear but maybe you should explore those possibilities. One, two or maybe a half dozen you could write off for various reasons. The bottom line is normally when you cannot command her complete and undivided attention, she's just not that into you, move on. If she finds you interesting and you have much in common those lulls you mention won't be there. Is there an age gap in you and these ladies?

[Ger]

I agree. I may be doing something that loses their interest. Which is why I asked what approach works better?

Funny you should mention the age gap. It is rarely more than 5-15 years. Strangely, the people who's attention I've kept consistently are either 18-22 years younger or about my own age. i'm early forties.

Only a guess Ger but, if you are not holding the ladies attention and it seems to be a consistent problem perhaps the problem is more you than them? I'm sure that is not what you want to hear but maybe you should explore those possibilities. One, two or maybe a half dozen you could write off for various reasons. The bottom line is normally when you cannot command her complete and undivided attention, she's just not that into you, move on. If she finds you interesting and you have much in common those lulls you mention won't be there. Is there an age gap in you and these ladies?

[Shadow]

The best approach is not to come over as being impatient. 

[Ger]

This discussion helped. Thanks.

[I/O]

focused conversation

Ask how big her knockers are or if she's wearing a thong and the conversation will become quite....................."focused".

Other than that, yeppers, there's a crapload of bored "chatters" out there who'll be yapping to 3 or 4 guys at once.

[ECOCKS]

Thanks for the advice. In response:

- I use Elena's Models.

- I agree with the rule. However, I'm talking about *initial* conversations to gauge interest. The issue doesn't seem to be a matter of interest. Also, most women write to me first.

- You may be onto something here. I've been using the sincere/direct approach. But I suppose it's still game that applies. So, what approach do you recommend?

Look at the criteria you are using to pick the women you initiate or respond to on EM then take a long look in the mirror and do a self-assessment, maybe even ask some friends for some forthright help. Ask yourself if you are looking "in your league" by considering:

 - Are you looking in the appropriate age range consistent with the reality you represent? If you're looking at age gaps larger than 15 years you are drastically increasing your odds of being led along on a scam or otherwise non-serious pathway.

 - Are you within 4-6 months of going to visit? It's a fine line between going too soon (before you have traded enough emails and done a few Skype calls) and going too late (when she begins to lose faith in your intentions and credibility.

 - Have you fairly represented what the potential future lifestyle you have to offer will be like in terms of environment, finances, family and the like? Don't let attempts at determining details be brushed off with "I love you my darling man, it is no matter." or "Our love will carry us into the skies of freedom and you will keep me safe my strong, strong man, I know this." kinds of crap.

 - What cities are you looking in and around? If small towns are not giving you a large enough pool to select from, then shift to larger cities.

 - Are you accepting girls who speak no English then complaining at the costs of translators and interpreters? A common problem in relationship failures among even well-intentioned couples is over-estimation of the ability to learn English. Take the time to be SURE you are communicating and make it clear that they can show commitment to the future by devoting time to learning English NOW while the relationship is building. Of course, a good search criteria might well be to look for Fair English or higher.

 - Be sure you understand this process takes a year or two and that you have the financial situation to see it through. More than likely it will be two years and something over $15,000 even if things go well. This is not a sprint, it's the rest of your life.

That's just the basics. There are guys (and gals) here who will cheerfully (and maliciously) offer you advice. Look it over and reason who and what makes sense then make your plans accordingly. Drop into chat, form some "friendships" with people on the forum who you decide to trust and always keep your radar turned on throughout the prpcess. Don't let yourself fall into the fantasy traps of marrying that exotic lingerie model or buying into the myths you desperately wish to believe. Mel Gibson landed a lingerie model and look what happened to him.  

Good Luck

[ML]

I have a little bit different viewpoint here.

I avoid talking on these chat sites that are tied in with the dating sites . . . for several reasons.

First, they can be a real time killer.  I don't want daily conversations with women during the initial stages before a face to face meeting.  I just tell them I don't have chat capability or whatever and tell them that I will only exchange emails on a weekly basis before my arrival in their town, which is no longer than 6 weeks in the future.

Second, I think on these chat sites it can actually turn out to be the 'candy store' in reverse.  That is; the gals find out they can talk to 2-3 or more guys at the same time, and it goes to their head.  Their mind can't possibly get serious about any given guy because their head is swimming with the idea that they are the queen of the prom or whatever.

So, with my approach, I just send the message, state that I will only exchange weekly message before my arrival, etc.  I have only had about 2 out of a couple hundred who dropped me for refusing to enter the chat sites.

Thus, while a gal is engaged in frivolous chats with 10-20 guys over a 6 week period, she will be writing me a serious message once a week.  It seems, over time, that they probably become more serious about me (and others who follow this procedure) than they do when engaged in their 'candy store' fantasy activities.

[ECOCKS]

Paying for more than one chat and a couple of emails is absurd. Serious women don't keep a barrier up between you and themselves.

[3T_Ventus]

Ger!

Welcome to RWD! Good you come on here for questions on important matters! It is difficult to know exactly your situation but I believe most of us had to deal with flakiness and many factors could have been a cause to this.

FWIW, a beautiful woman will get attention from many men and it might take time before you stand out from the crowd. If you really believe that she is your kind of woman then be persistent and do not give up. Be more involved and keep asking. Let your personality, the true you, shine through and in time she might show more interest. Compare it to a long distance triathlon: you cannot focus on only swimming, cycling or running, you have to focus and give attention on all three to be a good athlete. Do not let flakiness put you down. Of course there is a limit to it, but if you are just starting out with her then have patience and persistence.

Ger, lets face it...it isn't bad that the woman you are interested in is going to the gym. Maybe it will help to see the positive side of things. You could compliment her on her fitness level. And if you know a thing or two about fitness you can strike a conversation about that (being involved). If you want her start caring about her and be involved in the things she cares about. Get rid of negative energy as much as you can because a woman can sense this fast, even though you do not mean to be in that disposition. You like to feel great and have a woman be interested in you? Sure she would love it too that you show more interest in her!
Of course, if you have tried all what is possible and a considerable time has passed and she hasn't shown real interest, then it would be time to move on???! It is up to you to decide what to do
 

We do not know the exact situation you are in but would like to wish you success and good luck in this endeavor! 

3T_Ventus

 

[dbneeley]

I have a little bit different viewpoint here.

I avoid talking on these chat sites that are tied in with the dating sites . . . for several reasons.

First, they can be a real time killer.  I don't want daily conversations with women during the initial stages before a face to face meeting.  I just tell them I don't have chat capability or whatever and tell them that I will only exchange emails on a weekly basis before my arrival in their town, which is no longer than 6 weeks in the future.

And how's that working out for you?

If you've met "several hundred" ladies without settling on any, I'd wonder if yours is a model to emulate...

David

[erudite]

If you hear water running or splashing while you are talking, she is either cooking, washing something or taking a bath. And yes they do multitask unless you get them on SKYPE and they have to sit in front of a computer screen.

[ML]

If you've met "several hundred" ladies without settling on any, I'd wonder if yours is a model to emulate...

Is the above supposed to be a quote of mine re the met  'several hundred'?

If so, point  me to the quote.

Otherwise, how about your ethics?

[dbneeley]

Is the above supposed to be a quote of mine re the met  'several hundred'?

If so, point  me to the quote.

Otherwise, how about your ethics?

My ethics are fine, thanks, but I lack a little of the arrogance you seem to show these ladies.

How about

So, with my approach, I just send the message, state that I will only exchange weekly message before my arrival, etc.  I have only had about 2 out of a couple hundred who dropped me for refusing to enter the chat sites.

David

[ML]

David, you still have not shown a quote of mine were I claimed to have met several hundred.

And your excellent education and training dictates that you know very well that you have not shown such a quote . . . and that you have deliberately changed some key words in your supposed quote.

So your ethics are even more in question now.

[Ger]

A couple of hundred doesn't sound strange to me. i've communicated with several hundred over the past year, and I would say about 3-4% made it to any point of consideration beyond a week's worth of conversation. A fraction of those have remained friends with whom I am still in contact, but the actual search has persisted... up until today. I met someone wonderful in person at an arranged meeting place and both of us seem equally serious and committed to give it a good try.

I appreciate the responses I received to my original posting. There was valuable info in each that gave me good food for thought. Thanks once again!

[3T_Ventus]

Ger!

We had no clue you were already at this stage: you are interested in one wonderful woman! Well done Ger!!! I think that most WMVO head to this direction. Mine certainly did. A word of advice: If you are still speaking (Skype), writing or chatting to women whom are interested in you…drop them immediately!!! Friends you will have to drop in time…FWIW. I you have done so already then ignore my previous words.

In your OP you state that you use Skype? Video Skype too? Best invention to supplement international dating!!! We use it as much as possible and it is way better than chatting! Sometimes a woman will test you if you want to chat or not (watch her eyes and body language very closely) Be persistent and do as many in a week as possible. And surely she will like it. You would have passed the test...or maybe you already passed?!


You are going to visit and she is wonderful?? Then do not let go of her!!! You are doing great and once again I hope you will get success and good luck to you!


3T_Ventus

[Ger]

Yes, we met and it was better than I even expected.

It is funny, but the reason she came up to the top of my list is because she did not suffer the exact phenomenon I was complaining about in my first post in this thread. You see, my skype block-list grew faster than my contact list once I had made a decision: I decided to eliminate the ones who multi-tasked while talking with me, or who could not keep an appointment because I considered it a lack of basic manners and, in a sense, even rude. I simply decided this is not what I want. She was one of a handful who remained and, in fact, she was extra polite and considerate. I value that, so I decided to focus my attention on her. It turns out she thinks much like I do and we have much in common wrt wants, family, upbringing, values and more, despite very different cultures.

The next step is she wants to visit me for a longer period this month and then I will visit her place in a couple of months.

We've both already disabled our accounts on the websites (unknowing to me, she already did it even before we met!), but now we're communicating exclusively.

Wish us luck!

Ger!

We had no clue you were already at this stage: you are interested in one wonderful woman! Well done Ger!!! I think that most WMVO head to this direction. Mine certainly did. A word of advice: If you are still speaking (Skype), writing or chatting to women whom are interested in you…drop them immediately!!! Friends you will have to drop in time…FWIW. I you have done so already then ignore my previous words.

In your OP you state that you use Skype? Video Skype too? Best invention to supplement international dating!!! We use it as much as possible and it is way better than chatting! Sometimes a woman will test you if you want to chat or not (watch her eyes and body language very closely) Be persistent and do as many in a week as possible. And surely she will like it. You would have passed the test...or maybe you already passed?!


You are going to visit and she is wonderful?? Then do not let go of her!!! You are doing great and once again I hope you will get success and good luck to you!


3T_Ventus

[GQBlues]

One thing I've noticed is that a lot of women, particularly from Ukraine, do not really pay attention to time or timeliness. For example, appointments that they make themselves to chat a day or two later aren't kept for reasons such as "Oh, I went to the gym" or putting me on hold for 10 minutes can turn into two hours. Also, it seems many of the women are either multitasking when they are in the middle of a conversation with me or they are talking to several men simultaneously. This makes meaningful conversation difficult. Consequently, the simple matter of just having a meaningful focused conversation a couple of times has become an important criteria.

I'm wondering if others have experienced the same and what the more seasoned have to say about this phenomenon.

Ha-hah! Sure.....the good ol' days of AOL Chatrooms, man!

I still remember when those IMs start arriving simply because you parked inside a chatroom, your puter screen looks like Lebanon hellfire! What's worst, you may be typing a hot and steady chat with someone when all of the sudden a new chat windows pops up without your knowledge (I'm a 2 finger typist and I can't type without looking at the keyboard) then just instantaneously clicking 'send', Bwalla!

Someone always asked 'Huh? What are you talking about'? Such a rush!

But hey Ger! Look as though you're having fun. Good luck with your quest. Mind if I ask what agency you're using?

[3T_Ventus]

Ger!

The more you open up the more your story correlates with mine, and many others…

Ger, we all enjoy the preliminary rounds. I certainly did. Making a choice in your case wasn’t hard at all I presume. I can relate to what you have gone through, though I am prohibited to tell much, if any. Multi tasking was not as bad as 15 days absence and no explanation, lol!!!! …and then after contact an absence of 10 days, to put the cherry on the pie, lol!!!
My woman is just like yours and even exceeded my expectations by far. She blew the competition away like if there was none to begin with. Within a nanosecond you make up a choice, simply because of not being impressed enough by the other candidates?  Making a balanced decision is not difficult in such a situation. Many have the potential of being a good wife but maybe are not ready at that particular moment to make a life long commitment. Your woman and mine both exhibited good behavior and seriousness, knowing that inner attraction plays an important role in national and international relationships. 

Ger, you are doing great and we all wish you much luck and that you both my fall in love!!!! 

GQ, we all should write memoirs about experiences in international relationships and keep them for family and grandchildren