WTE

[XMan]

I thought I would only write a trip report if I had something interesting to bring up that I did not discuss in earlier trip reports.  Well, I cannot really say I have anything of value to add.  Perhaps a couple of incidental items. 

First, I should say that it has been an unmitigated disaster. 
A full on, unrestrained, fiasco of biblical proportions, in all ways imaginable, and some you have not imagined, believe me.   
Would that I were in jest. 
Alas, no.
Sic vita est.

As a sidebar, for all the WOVO fans, and I understand the reasoning, morality, etc., etc., etc., behind that idea, I can only say that you should seriously consider backup plans that you can live with.  I had this grandiose idea that I would do all of these other cultural things if it all went awry.  In theory, a perfectly plausible approach.  In reality, it simply is not a reasonable approach if one is already deeply vested in meeting a specific person.  The cultural activities, site seeing, even meeting with friends (of which I have several here) does little to soften the blow, especially if it is unexpectedly harsh (akin to a knee in the groin, just as analogical parallel).  As a veteran, I am surprised.  I was far more deeply interested than even I was aware.   

But, to each his own. 
As I often say, your mileage may vary.
I think it is wise to not only have a backup plan, but a backup for the backup. 

I am now in what I would call ATSM, attempt to salvage mode. 
Were a bottle of Loch Du scotch handy, that might be my first choice. 
Since it is not, I am going to see my friend, quite a good concert pianist, play arrangements of standards at a fine restaurant.  I will be accompanied by a lady that I am uncertain I have anything in common with, but at this point, what the hell.  Perhaps I can make the second half of this trip better.  I dare not say that it could not be worse, because there is always a way for it to be worse.  Why tempt Fate, even if I don't personally believe in Fate.

Now for the potentially useful part of our program.

A new, decent, inexpensive, traditional Ukrainian restaurant that I thought I had a business card of but cannot find.  It is on Trinkler Street, not far from the Lenin statue in the main square (Liberty Square) in Kharkov.  Pleasant place, OK food, interesting decor (nothing like fake chickens and goats in the windows).  I will try to post photos later.

A very fine, very good food, moderately expensive restaurant called Hunter's Court.  Requires a taxi to reach, no way to get there by subway.  Beautiful inside, pleasant atmosphere, recommend it.

[Daveman]

I thought I would only write a trip report if I had something interesting to bring up that I did not discuss in earlier trip reports.  Well, I cannot really say I have anything of value to add.  Perhaps a couple of incidental items. 

First, I should say that it has been an unmitigated disaster. 
A full on, unrestrained, fiasco of biblical proportions, in all ways imaginable, and some you have not imagined, believe me.   
Would that I were in jest. 
Alas, no.
Sic vita est.

As a sidebar, for all the WOVO fans, and I understand the reasoning, morality, etc., etc., etc., behind that idea, I can only say that you should seriously consider backup plans that you can live with.  I had this grandiose idea that I would do all of these other cultural things if it all went awry.  In theory, a perfectly plausible approach.  In reality, it simply is not a reasonable approach if one is already deeply vested in meeting a specific person.  The cultural activities, site seeing, even meeting with friends (of which I have several here) does little to soften the blow, especially if it is unexpectedly harsh (akin to a knee in the groin, just as analogical parallel).  As a veteran, I am surprised.  I was far more deeply interested than even I was aware.   

But, to each his own. 
As I often say, your mileage may vary.
I think it is wise to not only have a backup plan, but a backup for the backup. 

I am now in what I would call ATSM, attempt to salvage mode. 
Were a bottle of Loch Du scotch handy, that might be my first choice. 
Since it is not, I am going to see my friend, quite a good concert pianist, play arrangements of standards at a fine restaurant.  I will be accompanied by a lady that I am uncertain I have anything in common with, but at this point, what the hell.  Perhaps I can make the second half of this trip better.  I dare not say that it could not be worse, because there is always a way for it to be worse.  Why tempt Fate, even if I don't personally believe in Fate.

Now for the potentially useful part of our program.

A new, decent, inexpensive, traditional Ukrainian restaurant that I thought I had a business card of but cannot find.  It is on Trinkler Street, not far from the Lenin statue in the main square (Liberty Square) in Kharkov.  Pleasant place, OK food, interesting decor (nothing like fake chickens and goats in the windows).  I will try to post photos later.

A very fine, very good food, moderately expensive restaurant called Hunter's Court.  Requires a taxi to reach, no way to get there by subway.  Beautiful inside, pleasant atmosphere, recommend it.

Xman, I'm really sorry to hear about your disappointment.  Shattered dreams can be a royal pain (as I'm sure you are feeling at this moment.  The good thing is that you had the fiasco early on so that all it did cost you is a wasted trip and some internal aching.  Yeah, when VO trips work, they're fabulous -- a euphoric experience with which very little compares; when they go awry, as you described perfectly, it is very difficult to just change gears and plans when you are already emotionally invested with dreamy expectations.

As you know, it's far from the end of the world but if it isn't meant to be, better to learn that sooner rather than later.  So many great ladies here.. just try to get out and meet them if you can get your head in the place for it. 

I truly wish you the best to salvage this trip. I am currently in Donetsk... if part of your plan extends to traveling a little around Ukraine, let me know if your possibilities including heading east. 

Best of luck with the rest of the trip...
Dave

[Shadow]

Xman, two things.

First of all the mistake is the deeply vested interest. Even on a WOVO trip one should know that having such a thing can lead to complete failure.

Second is the continuation. You will be accompanied by the lady, however have you mentioned your feelings to her ? If you keep silent, things will not improve as you will feel stuck.

It is time for a serious private talk, where you tell her your feelings, and she could feel the same. Then either you will change to a friendship without the burden of having to attempt a relationship, or just break off the contact, allowing both of you to find your own way.

[ML]

XMan, check your message box.  I sent you some contact info for some Kharkiv ladies.

When I continue to read these WOVO stories, I am always reminded of the BD lyrics: "How many times must a cannon ball roll . . ."

[XMan]

It's quite strange, really.
I've done WOVO, WMVM, and other alternatives. 

To clarify my first post:
Did not realize the exact depth of my interest (several fathoms, apparently, plenty deep enough to drown in) until I came up on the short end of the stick.  Perhaps because she turned out to be more remarkable in person than via the methods of long distance communication.  In fact, a lot of different types of communication prior to our meetings, so I think I had a much greater comfort level because of that, and a resulting low expectation for failure --- thus the jarring impact of reality.  Face first splat.  You get the picture.  Met her son as well, thought things were going differently than they were, thus the disorientation of falling off the Ferris Wheel of Life. Or perhaps the Roller Coaster of Life would be more appropriate, if I stick with the carnival analogy.

Had a nice evening with a different woman (do not think I made that plan clear in my first post). 
Communication was problematic with my limited Russian and her near zero English. 
Truthfully, though, I am finding it extraordinarily difficult to switch gears.

It is what it is, and that pretty much sucks.

Daveman -- thanks, probably will not make it down that way, but much appreciate it.

ML - Thanks as well, will look into it.

[I/O]

All the best intended VM and or backup plans won't fix a dented ego.

[XMan]

All the best intended VM and or backup plans won't fix a dented ego.

You always have a way with words I/O.  Whether they are accurate or not is questionable.

Ego bruising not an issue. 
In the grand scheme ego doesn't matter.  She wasn't a trophy or something.
I really was seriously interested in her. 
But, as I said, it is what it is.

[Aloe]

XMan, check your message box.  I sent you some contact info for some Kharkiv ladies.

When I continue to read these WOVO stories, I am always reminded of the BD lyrics: "How many times must a cannon ball roll . . ."

And did you ask those ladies' permission to give out their info to random strangers they haven't even seen a profile of?

[I/O]

Ego bruising not an issue.

Don't kid yourself, you'd be less than human if it wasn't a factor (denial isn't just a river in the mid east). BTW, stick to the siteseeing for this trip, you're in no fit state to be messing with any serious women right now.

[GoodOlBoy]

BTW, stick to the siteseeing for this trip, you're in no fit state to be messing with any serious women right now.

Some excellent advice.
Rebound relationships are almost always bad news.
We are here for you X-Man.
Good luck on the rest of your trip!

GOB

[dogspot]

What does WTE mean?

[JohnDearGreen]

What does WTE mean?

Possibly Worst Trip Ever.

I've done WOVO, WMVM, and other alternatives...

I have browsed thru your posts and don't see the number of unsuccessful trips you have made as too much out of the ordinary based on your age and the age of the ladies.   Keep trying.

As you mentioned, VM was not your thing and VO is risky.  A middle ground like W3V3 might be reasonable.   For a 2 week trip schedule 3 5-day VO trips with 3 different ladies to improve your chance of success.  Can be in same or different cities.  Maybe change apartments each of the 5 days to prevent ladies from finding out you are still there. 

I would suggest asking the lady(s) and agency for some feedback, but sounds like you have already done that.

[XMan]

Possibly Worst Trip Ever.

I have browsed thru your posts and don't see the number of unsuccessful trips you have made as too much out of the ordinary based on your age and the age of the ladies.   Keep trying.

As you mentioned, VM was not your thing and VO is risky.  A middle ground like W3V3 might be reasonable.   For a 2 week trip schedule 3 5-day VO trips with 3 different ladies to improve your chance of success.  Can be in same or different cities.  Maybe change apartments each of the 5 days to prevent ladies from finding out you are still there. 

I would suggest asking the lady(s) and agency for some feedback, but sounds like you have already done that.

Indeed, correct on the WTE. 

I understand what you are saying I/O, I just feel differently about it. 

I know there is no perfect match, but from an interests / life view standpoint, she seemed like exactly the right type of woman (for me, that is). 

There are times I feel like it's me, haystack, needle --- please insert quarter and begin search again.

My friend Oleg says, "you know, Brazilian and Columbian women are quite attractive, and it's much closer to the USA." 
Funny guy.  Probably true, still funny. 

Cheers.

[XMan]

Because nothing says fine dining like a goat in the window. 

This is from the traditional Ukrainian restaurant I mentioned earlier.  Turns out up until a few weeks ago it was a Chinese restaurant.  They did virtually no business, from what I have been told, thus the switch. 

The music actually was OK.  Not so loud that I could not speak and be heard.

[XMan]

The other restaurant I mentioned, Hunter's Court, second floor and fireplace shots. 
Very good food.

[Gator]

XMan,

My advice is a little different from what you received.  I say spend time with some new women (with certain caveats).

It sounds as if your WOVO trip built up expectations to unrealistic levels.  If you have never met before, you should not expect the ideal and instead only hope that it proves real.

Because I usually spent a lot of time on the phone before meeting a RW, I have had high hopes several times.  And some were dashed soon after meeting, yet because my expectations were reasonable  I had no problem dating other women within a day or two.  In fact I found it reassuring to walk around with another woman and spend time getting to know each other.   I was usually laid back and relaxed  because I had no expectations with these new women, and frankly women liked that.  Hint:  if you want to talk about the one who gave you WTE rather than the one in front of you, you are not ready to meet other women.   

Did I read that you may try to resurrect the WOVO woman?  You did not describe your specific situation, yet in 99% of the cases the sooner you get her out of your mind, the better.  No, not 99%; 99.9% is probably more accurate because a meeting is the best litmus test, and in your case it showed red when you were convinced it would be blue. 

[GQBlues]

Sorry to hear your trip didn't pan out as you had hoped...

As for approach, WMVM / WOVO, nothing wrong with either approaches as there are folks who were met with success with both. Personally, bringing your heart along for the first trip, IMO, whether you're VM/VO, is not something I would tell folks to do.

Neither is the VO w/ female back-ups, LOL. I suppose if you must fool everyone that you're on a VO trip, it should include yourself, too.

Anyway, have fun the rest of your trip/experience. When you get back to mission control, play Devil's advocate and look at this from the woman's perspective objectively. Then lather, rinse, repeat...

[I/O]

My advice is a little different from what you received.  I say spend time with some new women (with certain caveats).

Gator, I simply think he should stay away from serious women until he has his head back in order. I've never really objected to anyone "banging" their way through ego restoration if that's what it takes notwithstanding.

[XMan]

I'm about as old-fashioned as they come (in certain respects). 
I don't go "banging my way" through, as I/O alluded might be worthwhile. 
That is not an ego fix, at least not for me personally. 
Not judging anyone or anything, it just isn't part of my personality.

Indeed Gator, even with a ton of prior experience, got my expectations up too high, and truthfully without realizing just how high. 

At nearly the last minute, even though I figured I would do "the cultural things" if it went awry, I exchanged an intro letter with a woman I wound up meeting briefly during the time I was being pointlessly strung along here [I say pointlessly strung along because I know details that I am not desirous of sharing, so you'll have to take my word for it]. 

OK.
10 year age difference. 
Nice woman. 
Has a young son.  Struggling as a single mom here, as many women do, I imagine.
Met again, had dinner, long conversation last night. 
I asked about the father.  Sure, perhaps too soon, but why find out later that it is going to be a nightmare if things get serious due to problems from the father's side. 
Turns out he is 10 years younger than she, never worked (i.e. chronic bum), broke up a "while ago" (day, week, month, year, who knows).   

Hmmm.
10 years younger than she, while I am 10 years older, and he's a chronic bum. 
Raise your hand if you see this in any possible way ending well. 
HA!

 :selfharm:
 

I am thinking this is messed up on every imaginable level, but perhaps I am jumping to conclusions. 
Or not.
Ha.

This TR is becoming much more entertaining now.

Cheers.

[ML]

X-Man, sorry but your messages are still confusing us as to which woman you are talking about.  The first or second.

[GoodOlBoy]

I asked about the father.  Sure, perhaps too soon, but why find out later that it is going to be a nightmare if things get serious due to problems from the father's side. 

Very good point X-Man!
Newbies pay attention to this detail.
I have mentioned something about this topic in another thread years ago concerning one of my neighbors.
He met and fell in love with a beautiful FSUW.
She has the cutest little girl, beautiful child.

Anyway, to make a long story short, when it came to crunch time and filing the documents to bring them over here to the GoodOl' USA, the father (who had never been in the daughter's life) suddenly wanted $5000. cash on the table or it was a no go on the signature.

My neighbor finally coughed up the money.
Everybody got here safe and sound.
They are all still doing fine.

BUT, my wife said something to me awhile back that has always left a doubt in my mind as to what really happened.

After my wife met this family and we socialized for awhile, Marina has her own take on where the $5000. really went.

One day I was ranting about what kind of father would "blackmail" somebody for $5000. to sell his own daughter?

My wife just smiled at me and said something along this line: "Money went to woman's pocket Rick, as protection for future".

GOB

[Gator]

Gator, I simply think he should stay away from serious women until he has his head back in order. I've never really objected to anyone "banging" their way through ego restoration if that's what it takes notwithstanding.

It is not a "Black or White" issue.  Everything is on a continuum, ranging from the "hopelessly romantic and distraught" to "bang the next one"     If Xman is somewhere in the middle, he should use the opportunity to meet others to rebuild his confidence, and that does not mean to bang away.  Besides,  remote as it may be, one may be "THE ONE."   

I/O, I agree with you if Xman's mind is so preoccupied that if on a date he would think only about the woman that failed him rather than the woman sitting in front of him.  If that is the case, how does one break out of the "moan, pine and languish" mode?  Time is the only answer?

[Faux Pas]

Met again, had dinner, long conversation last night. 
I asked about the father.  Sure, perhaps too soon, but why find out later that it is going to be a nightmare if things get serious due to problems from the father's side. 
Turns out he is 10 years younger than she, never worked (i.e. chronic bum), broke up a "while ago" (day, week, month, year, who knows).   

Hmmm.
10 years younger than she, while I am 10 years older, and he's a chronic bum. 
Raise your hand if you see this in any possible way ending well. 
HA!

 

Xman, is it just me or are these not points to ponder, ask and find out before traveling over to visit her? At this point, I don't see how it could end well but, stranger things have happened. I'm not meaning to sound too negative toward the lady as I don't know her but, having a child with a chronic bum 10 years her junior does speak a few volumes on her character.

[Muzh]

Xman, it's almost 10 PM in Xapkib right now. Sorry to hear the bad news. I'm here scrartching my head since I can't follow who is who or what happened.

Did you get dumped? It is obvious that you are hurting right now. Find yourself a nice cafe, get a nice bottle of wine and ponder what's next. Still, you are in a very beautiful city and it would be a waste to be gloomy all this time. I have an American expat friend who lives in the Cold Mountain area. (Well, that's the transliteration.) Let me know if you want to tie up with him.

[Rubicon]

if you are in Kharkov, I recommend you go and check out mordinson agency.

www.mordinson.com

good luck!!