"I don't drink alcohol"

[ECOCKS]

You would rarely see russian woman on dating sites admitting that she "drinks alcohol" in the profile - because perceptionally such statement is close enough to admitting "i am an alcoholic" or "I have problems with alcohol" or "I cannot resist drinking alcohol".
Another reason for saying they do not drink alcohol - because they want to meet a man who would not be drinking. Therefore, the chances to meet such man would be higher if woman will state she doesn't drink. Whereas when she tells "I do drink alcohol" - she may attract disproportionally many men who have drinking problem.

The problem is not with women being dishonest, the problem is with overly simplified questionnaires at the dating sites. If the options are "drink alcohol" and "do not drink alcohol" - they hardly can capture the whole wide spectrum of choices.
For example, in my case - i can have a glass of wine if everyone else is having it, I can have whiskey or scotch, or absinth, on some occasions - for example when I am going out late at night, they keep me awake.
At the same time - when I drink wine, it is usually few sips per evening, maybe 1/10 of a glass, few times a month. With harder drinks - it could be few shots, but far less often. I never go out for the purpose to drink, and I never buy alcohol drinks for home consumption for myself. I can be perfectly fine if I do not drink alcohol at all - I will not suffer in any way, nor miss it, nor seek the opportunity. Finally, I never drink to the point of being drunk.

So if I answer the question "yes I drink" - that would put me in the same category with people who can habitually finish a 6-pack or more in one evening, or a bottle of wine along with dinner, or people who go to the bar every week for the only purpose to drink.
On the other hand - if I state that I do not drink, it also will not be completely true, because I can drink alcohol, in small quantities, and I do drink it occasionally.  

With smoking it is similar. I do not smoke cigarettes, and I never did. I can occasionally (1-3 times a year) go to a hookah bar, or smoke hookah at friend's place or have a cigar. Do I smoke sometimes? yes. Am I a smoker (a regular smoker)? no.
the opposite in my case. I was always very clear with all people around me that living with me will be always associated with some extra fauna and flora in the apartment/house. Now we have 2 adorable and independent "hairballs" I'm hopeful to expand that eventually to other animal varieties too.

I think you are right. There should be a choice for "social drinker" maybe even "social smoker".

Everyone has their tolerances for dogs, cats, smoke, alcohol, whatever they believe. Compromising those tolerances for the sake of beauty, economics or lifestyle leads to disaster.

[Blues Fairy]

"Glass of wine? White or red? What sort of wine do you like at this time of the day?"
"Thanks but... I don't drink."
"You poor fellow! What about a game of dice then? Or do you prefer some other game? Dominoes? Cards?"
"I don't gamble," replied the bartender, feeling weak and thoroughly muddled.
"How dreadful for you," said Voland. "I always think, present company excluded of course, that there's something unpleasant lurking in people who avoid drinking, gambling, table talk and pretty women. People like that are either sick or secretly hate their fellow men. Of course there may be exceptions. I have had some outright scoundrels sitting at my table before now!"

(c) Bulgakov, Master and Margarita

[mies]

Everyone has their tolerances for dogs, cats, smoke, alcohol, whatever they believe. Compromising those tolerances for the sake of beauty, economics or lifestyle leads to disaster.

true. I would not live with a person who cannot tolerate pets. As well as I would not be able to live with a person who drinks or smokes regularly.

As for "social drinking" - I would not rely heavily on this phrase. Most of people who do have problem with the alcohol never admit it, and they say "I only drink socially". The difference is that they specifically look for company to get drunk, they drink regularly, often, and in significant amounts. So in my view it is OK when a person say "I do not drink" if they drink rarely.

[ECOCKS]

Rarely and/or occasionally work too I guess.

[Shostakovich]

Ya, substances - they play a big role in FSU socializing.  I've encountered a few variations on the theme that have escaped mention here.

The social smoker - In the USA it is generally an addictive, bad-news behavior, but some in the FSU seem to be able to smoke whilst in social settings only.  I've noted this among some from other European countries as well.  Like social drinking, social smoking does not count as smoking for some in the FSU.  Likewise the use of the water pipe.  Every restaurant or club has them for the patrons.  I tried one on my last visit.  I can't say that I really consider it to be smoking either.

Then there are those who generally keep away from the booze but let all the stops out come party time.  I've seen this too and woe unto you from the West, those people in the FSU can drink like fishes.  That seems to be what they call drinking over there. 

But, now, herein lies an interesting subject: the attitude towards pleasure in the FSU vs. the US.  Wasn't it in that film 'Eat, Pray, Love" where the protagonist for the Italian life criticized the US as a people who are well entertained but who know little about pleasure?  It is clear that the pleasures take more than a few in the FSU over to the dark side but it seems to me also too that the ones who can keep it in balance enjoy a happier more spirited life while we in the US always must cast things into thou shall and thou shalt nots.  It is one of the things one must confront in the FSU girl-quest.  Personally, for those who can stay away from addictions, I think they have a happier attitude in the FSU, though I do also believe this varies by region and generation.

   

[Maxx2]

"Glass of wine? White or red? What sort of wine do you like at this time of the day?"
"Thanks but... I don't drink."
"You poor fellow! What about a game of dice then? Or do you prefer some other game? Dominoes? Cards?"
"I don't gamble," replied the bartender, feeling weak and thoroughly muddled.
"How dreadful for you," said Voland. "I always think, present company excluded of course, that there's something unpleasant lurking in people who avoid drinking, gambling, table talk and pretty women. People like that are either sick or secretly hate their fellow men. Of course there may be exceptions. I have had some outright scoundrels sitting at my table before now!"

(c) Bulgakov, Master and Margarita

I have had those thoughts too about the abstainers. I think it was Shakespeare who said beware of lean men.

[Shostakovich]

I think it was Shakespeare who said beware of lean men.

Bill was a buffoon.  It's a weak nature that requires stimulants but a weaker one still that must abstain from them entirely.

[Shostakovich]

I have had those thoughts too about the abstainers. I think it was Shakespeare who said beware of lean men.

Also, B. Russel is a buffoon too.  Your little signature statement at the bottom of your posts - sounds awfully 'full of himself' to me.

[mies]

Ya, substances - they play a big role in FSU socializing.  

I did not get that impression at all in the US bars. Namely, I do not see many FSU people in the bars, but somehow the bars thrive, the booz is always in demand. Some Americans drink like fishes too. And they are quite keen on using substances for socializing. I'm sure you can find that behavior in other nations, like UK, or Western Europe likewise. For further information please refer to Matthew 7:3.

I might partially agree with your thoughts about Americans and pleasure. Many Americans that I know manage to not receive pleasure from generally pleasant and fun activities. I do not know what is the reason, suspect that rationality and impact of protestantism might have conditioned it. If they come to the bar, they have to be doing it for some reason, and not for pleasure.

[Shostakovich]

I did not get that impression at all in the US bars. Namely, I do not see many FSU people in the bars, but somehow the bars thrive, the booz is always in demand. Some Americans drink like fishes too. And they are quite keen on using substances for socializing. I'm sure you can find that behavior in other nations, like UK, or Western Europe likewise. For further information please refer to Matthew 7:3.

Matthew: not at all - actually, overall, I'm an FSU enthusiast.  Shostakovich, you know.  No doubt there are plenty of drunks in the US, the UK too -- that might me alchy central for the world from what I hear.  Talk about your nihilism: waling on down London streets with the projectile vomit going, and continuing on as if nothing happened.  But really, the FSU does not have a problem with alcohol? 

[mies]

Matthew: not at all - actually, overall, I'm an FSU enthusiast.  Shostakovich, you know.  No doubt there are plenty of drunks in the US, the UK too -- that might me alchy central for the world from what I hear.  Talk about your nihilism: waling on down London streets with the projectile vomit going, and continuing on as if nothing happened.  But really, the FSU does not have a problem with alcohol?  

my nihilism?  hmm.
I know what you are talking about, but personally I never drank while in London, and every time I walked London streets I was perfectly sober. In fact, I never walked the streets of any city being drunk )) never vomited from excessive alcohol consumption either. And I am not really a nihilist.
Imho, all western countries have to some extent problem with alcohol. Islamic countries do not have this problem, but they have many other problems.

When going back and force between "closeup view" and "the big picture", it is very important to remember what was the initial question you were trying to answer. Otherwise the meaning will be lost.
Does FSU have problem with prostitution?
Does FSU have problem with corruption?
Does FSU have problem with crime?
Does FSU have problem with drugs?
Does FSU have problem with AIDS and TB?
Does FSU have problem with human trafficking?
Does FSU have problem with child pornography?
considering all permutations.. what is the statistical probability that a never drinking guy from New Zealand will meet at dating site a criminal, prostitute, alcoholic, heroin addict (or maybe a pusher?) woman with AIDS and TB, recruiting women for human trafficking and selling child pornography internationally, while paying bribes to corrupt officials? Or individual probability for each of these events?

[Shostakovich]

For further information please refer to Matthew 7:3.

Now, what about old Matthew:

7:3

King James Bible
"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

But isn't to say so, also to 'considerest a beam in the eye' of those mote beholders?  Doesn't this, like the Russell quotation earlier dissembled, fail from the lack of self-consistency?

Did Matthew even know JC?  If this is the wisdom he learned from him, then does not that make JC also something of a buffoon?

[mies]

I do not know what or whom Matthew personally knew. It all happened (if it did) way before I was born.
People have problems defining the boundaries and content of their own knowledge, let alone what "the others" may know.
However certain generalizations can be made from observations of revealed believes of others.

[Shostakovich]

I do not know what or whom Matthew personally knew. It all happened (if it did) way before I was born.
People have problems defining the boundaries and content of their own knowledge, let alone what "the others" may know.
However certain generalizations can be made from observations of revealed believes of others.

I think that the perception of 'truth' has nothing to do with content and everything to do with name and fame.  It is like the perception of art - so long as something is in a gallery, a good share of people will call it art.  That is why Duchamp signed the toilet seat and got someone to put it in a gallery -- lo and behold, it was art. Same thing with wisdom and the holy book.  It's why Elvis could get away with this:

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcJac6OykfM[/youtube]

[mies]

peer pressure, of course, is always there. But we are blessed of being able, within certain limits, to select our peers. If one feels that the "art gallery" is biased, she/he is free to continue looking for the "art gallery" with nearest approximation to The Truth.
Quite interestingly, in Russian there are two words for two different phenomena:
Правда & Истина
The former would be "perceived truth" or "truth in a given circumstances", while the latter is "generalized and ultimate truth".
In English "truth" term is used for both cases. Any comments?

[Anotherkiwi]

considering all permutations.. what is the statistical probability that a never drinking guy from New Zealand will meet at dating site a criminal, prostitute, alcoholic, heroin addict (or maybe a pusher?) woman with AIDS and TB, recruiting women for human trafficking and selling child pornography internationally, while paying bribes to corrupt officials? Or individual probability for each of these events?

I would sincerely Hope that the answer is NEVER! :evil:

Bill was a buffoon.  It's a weak nature that requires stimulants but a weaker one still that must abstain from them entirely.

As you don't know me, or anything about me (apart from the fact that I'm from New Zealand and don't drink), paraphrasing John Stuart Mill doesnt get you any Brownie points!  I'm a chocoholic - that's enogh stimulation any day of the week.

[mies]

I would sincerely Hope that the answer is NEVER! :evil:

I hope I made you smile and feel relieved too ))))

When I was a fresh(wo)man in college we had a joke floating around:
A freshman girl, after the first set of finals calls her parents and tells them:"I have shaved me head, got tattoos and piercing, and a bit hooked up on alcohol and drugs to adjust to city life. My boyfriend got me pregnant, but he does not want to marry me, and he is a criminal. Oh, and also we had a fire in the dormitory yesterday, i had to jump from the window, and now I have a broken leg and hand, and a concussion, currently at the hospital, and don't have a place to live at. All my belongings, clothes, computer, money, documents - everything is gone."
Parents are about to have heart attack from shock.
Then girl after a pause proceeds: "ok, please relax. I'm ok, look normal, in good health, not pregnant, not addicted, don't have a boyfriend, and there was no fire. I only failed the exam. But I wanted you to see things in a perspective."
 :evil:

[ECOCKS]

The American version of this joke includes that the fire started in the student's room from a joint dropped in the garbage can and that the bf/gf didn't make it out so a homicide investigation and bill for the damages is pending.

[mies]

The American version of this joke includes that the fire started in the student's room from a joint dropped in the garbage can and that the bf/gf didn't make it out so a homicide investigation and bill for the damages is pending.

some jokes are international )))

[GQBlues]

...When going back and force between "closeup view" and "the big picture", it is very important to remember what was the initial question you were trying to answer. Otherwise the meaning will be lost.
Does FSU have problem with prostitution?
[....] considering all permutations.. what is the statistical probability that a never drinking guy from New Zealand will meet at dating site a criminal, prostitute, alcoholic, heroin addict (or maybe a pusher?) woman with AIDS and TB, recruiting women for human trafficking and selling child pornography internationally, while paying bribes to corrupt officials? Or individual probability for each of these events?

This brought back memories of my first trip to Russia. On the morning I was leaving Moscow, I stood outside the Marriot at around 4 AM waiting for my taxi to take me to the airport. Out came two gorgeous women (one at a time 10 minutes apart). While the first one waited for 'her friend', we spoke. The woman's hair was a bit 'unkempt' which sort of clashed with the very seductive attire she had on. High heeled to boot.

They asked what I was in Russia for, I told them and the conversation got interesting amidst the cigarette smoke surrounding us.

Long story short... at 26 & 29, both were awaiting proper documents to whisk them away to faraway lands into the hands of their respective dreamy fiancees. The older was a bit sad because her friend was departing much sooner than she and the prospect of working the night alone, even fora few more weeks, was just too much to even think about.    Oh the MOB.

Things that may you go...hhhmmmm.

Then of course, there was the infamous Flying Finn's girlfriend story of days gone by.  

[Anotherkiwi]

I hope I made you smile and feel relieved too ))))

Very!

Thank you all for your insight - the obvious conclusion is that pretty well every FSUW lies in their profile!  The thought which follows that depressing insight is therefore also obvious - if they lie about something like that, how much can you trust what they say about every other part of their life? 

Height is hard to tell from photos unless they're taken against something whose height you know (e.g. a horse or a house door), but relative weight I think is easier to judge.  Although I've seen plenty of profiles where the woman admits to 70 or 80 kg (and looks it), I've also seen plenty where they claim to be 50 or 52 kg and my first impression, based on their photos, is "Yeah right!  10 years ago, maybe."

Perhaps some of the ladies on here could comment on how truthful their profiles were (in general terms only - I'm not aiming to create conflict with spouses  ) and what the reason was if they fudged the reality at all.

[Gator]

... the obvious conclusion is that pretty well every FSUW lies in their profile! 

WRONG!

Over many years, I have met maybe 20-25 RW after studying their profile and communicating with them.

Most profiles were accurate.  Certainly more honest than those posted by their American sisters.

Some departures from the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth:

a.  One RW enjoyed smoking a few cigarettes even though she said she did not smoke.

b.  One lied about her age (said 39 when she was 43), yet she confessed early in our correspondence.

c.  Photos not current, yet they did not claim photos were current.

d.  Profile weight is frequently 5-10 lbs less than actual, and in a few cases 15-20 lbs.  Yet a more accurate indication than the qualitatative assessments provided by AW.

As a pleasant surprise a few RW understated some desirable  attributes.   

Don't worry.  You probably will find it difficult to find any woman who will  pass your mandatory criterion for alcohol.  So you may never get to the preferential criteria.   Plus there are more important issues than physical characteristics. 

[Chicagoguy]

Ditto Gator

I have met maybe 10 Russian women from the Internet and they were all as represented on their profiles.
Sorry, but I can't say the same about Americans.

[Jumper]

Thank you all for your insight - the obvious conclusion is that pretty well every FSUW lies in their profile!  The thought which follows that depressing insight is therefore also obvious - if they lie about something like that, how much can you trust what they say about every other part of their life?  Roll Eyes

well sorry, but i find the rolling eyes a bit appropriate  Lol

I really think you are taking that a bit too seriously,
 and a bit too far for your own good in this endeavor.
Certainly you can extrapolate things out. What "if"s,are endless, if you choose them to be.

Ok- I consider myself an honest hardworking person with a decent moral and ethical compass.
(don't we all? heh)
 If posting a profile on one of those type dating sites and the only available options are a check
 box of:

I don't drink alcohol
I drink alcohol

I'll probably choose  to check the one *I don't drink alcohol*

The reality is a may at vary infrequent times have a drink with friends , or a glass of wine or a beer with dinner.
So why would i "lie"  
 Well the point of the questionnaire is to generally inform people of what I'm like or  lifestyle,
 and the specifics can and would be  brought up after they even contact me ,
or i them.
 The *i dont drink * answer best fits  who i am..how i live..
 and the general purpose of THAT question being placed on the profile.

Like it or not, it is just  generally accepted the profiles intent with that question isn't about
*tee total  never touch a drop of alcohol*

Yes they written often very generally and just arnt worded well,or enough options on every subject.
So the issue is far more about how the profiles are written,
and taking them literally in a very strict context

To extrapolate that into a possible nation of liars, is just a bit much?
The exact same scenario happens on similar USA domestic type dating websites if the options for a more clarifying answer arn't available..
If you peruse mamba.ru, one of the largest singles websites for russians ,
the profile questions are far more indepth, the range of available answers more applicable,
and not surprisingly you'd  find *most* are honest in thier answers on various  topics.

Do some RW lie or mislead on their profiles? or post old photos?
 yes.
so do the men looking...
so do people on local dating websites.

This endeavor requires the men and women to put the time in to sort through that type of thing,
They have to take some time , face tha tthere wil be a lot of dead ends, actually write letters ,or call
and ask more specific questions, or meet in person.

The same as any local /domestic dating site.

You really can't base THAT much off the initial profile in most cases.  
It really shouldn't be that surprising or a big hurdle,
 if someone is interesting ,then write them and clarify any concerns.


The topic is really sensitive and a deal breaker for you,
 and unfortunately the profiles are often not targeted to that.
You are also contemplating looking in a culture where social drinking is  more accepted, so profiles written
from that side, as noted,  may have a slant without intention to mislead.
(or may be directly misleading)

I lived in rural Greece when i was young, it was completely normal for children to have a drink of wine with  a meal.Culturally it was just different.They certainly wouldn't consider that *drinking* there.

For me smoking is a deal breaker,in the FSU it is more common..
so you just have to accept that your search is possibly more complex and be clear in your contacts your likes /dislikes expectations.
you have to recognize that the info on the profile may not be entirely accurate, its up to you to do the due diligence.
Hey  i think "smoking /non smoking, is a much clearer *yes or no* answer. yet it also gets muddied.

Good luck.

[SFandEE]

Interesting... but remember there are very health conscious women out there also. The rest of her lifestyle should be a better guide than what she 'says'. For example yoga, health & fitness, what she eats, her attitude towards nightlife... etc.

I have been on dates with very health conscious women in Ukraine, including much to my disappointment a vegan, although she was very healthy, not waisted away, so I agree with Ger and also agree with others that there are ways to find health conscious women who do not "drink" or "smoke".  My experience with women who say they don't smoke or drink, but do has been like others as well.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I didn't see that you posted for religious or health reasons, do you think that putting more emphasis on why you want to be in this kind of relationship will help women better understand the importance of this quality?  Depending on how you are meeting these women, some are probably just out to have a good time and if they meet the right guy go from there.

I will also add that I don't see it as lying, but more a cultural difference that can be sorted out by making sure you are connecting with women who are sincere and also by being sincere in your representations.  Good luck.