"I don't drink alcohol"

[mies]

Very!

Thank you all for your insight - the obvious conclusion is that pretty well every FSUW lies in their profile! 

no. I didn't say that.
I explained why the women who do lie, do lie.
I didn't say that every woman lies in her profile.
 

[Anotherkiwi]

no. I didn't say that.
I explained why the women who do lie, do lie.
I didn't say that every woman lies in her profile.

No Mies, you didn't say that, but others did.  I appreciate that diferent websites phrase the alcohol and smoking questions differently, and most probably do not offer anywhere near enough options (e.g. "I have a glass of wine with dinner two or three times a week" would be a good standard, especially compared with "I guzzle a litre of vodka every night" or the eponymous "I drink socially" which could mean anything, but which most people seem to interpret as "light or occasional drinker").

...Quite interestingly, in Russian there are two words for two different phenomena:
Правда & Истина
The former would be "perceived truth" or "truth in a given circumstances", while the latter is "generalized and ultimate truth".
In English "truth" term is used for both cases. Any comments?

A very handy difference!  In my case, I'm asking a simple question - "do you drink any alcohol at all?" or, to phrase it another way, "do you ever have drinks containing alcohol, such as wine or beer?"

For those of you who think that I'm obsessing over this, you can lighten up a bit - of course I'm trying to find someone who is generally what I'm looking for, before going into more detail with them about specific likes and dislikes.  Certainly their physical characteristics are not the ultimate prize.  I really don't have a problem with other people drinking if they want to - my problem is that I can't stand the smell or taste of alcohol (and Coca-Cola!), so of course I don't want to end up with someone whose breath is a total turnoff just when we're getting to the amorous stage.  Of course I do try to ensure that my breath is not something that can be judged in the same way!

[Gator]

No Mies, you didn't say that, but others did.

Others?  Most everyone is saying this is simply a difference between your interpretation and a RW's interpretation of the question (i. e., the cultural definition of "no alcohol").                           

It appears that you think in a rigid "black or white" mode.  I found many RW tend to be the same.


Two people from different cultures and both with "black or white" attitudes.......attempting to have a relationship....trouble. 

You need to start corresponding and talking with a few RW.  Those experiences will give you much valuable feedback.

[Faux Pas]

For those of you who think that I'm obsessing over this, you can lighten up a bit - of course I'm trying to find someone who is generally what I'm looking for, before going into more detail with them about specific likes and dislikes.  Certainly their physical characteristics are not the ultimate prize.  I really don't have a problem with other people drinking if they want to - my problem is that I can't stand the smell or taste of alcohol (and Coca-Cola!), so of course I don't want to end up with someone whose breath is a total turnoff just when we're getting to the amorous stage.  Of course I do try to ensure that my breath is not something that can be judged in the same way!

I would be one of those. You do come off as a bit anal retentive bordering on obsessive controlling. Listen, few men want a woman who is an alcoholic (although I'm sure there is some that do) but the use of alcohol is a personal choice, taste and decision. You sound like a guy who would deny his wife (or date) a glass of wine at dinner. If you don't like alcohol, don't drink it. But, allow your mate the latitude to decide for herself without her decision affecting you one way or the other.  FWIW

[GoodOlBoy]

.....I can't stand the smell or taste of alcohol (and Coca-Cola!), so of course I don't want to end up with someone whose breath is a total turnoff....

Obviously, you need to find a teetotaler like yourself.
IMHO you are definitely hunting in the wrong neck of the woods (FSU).
For Christ sakes their whole culture embraces drinking alcohol (I am not calling them a bunch of drunks either ).
I drink and my wife (RW) drinks, all her family, all her friends, etc. etc.
Maybe consider a strict "churchgoer" in the FSU?? :noidea:
Anyway...good luck in your search!

GOB

[mies]

A very handy difference!  

I think I need to give you an example for the two russian words:
If you asked an average European in pre-Kopernik times about the construction of the world and earth, sun, & stars - nobody would tell you that Earth is round, and the Sun is the center of galaxy. If you asked someone "is it true, what you are saying?" person, in full belief would respond "it is true". So in the context of beliefs of that epoch, and belief of specific individual - such answer is true ("pravda"), however universally and ultimately - it is not true (not "istina").
Humans, with different levels of objectivity subjectivize surrounding reality, subjectivize The Truth ("istina"), and derive their own private truth ("pravda"). Sometimes they get pretty close "transcription", sometimes they are off.

you can also imagine the process of deriving "situational truth" from "ultimate truth" as the process of taking a photo. There is some object, or a landscape. A person is using his camera, and wants to get the "own copy" of what he sees. Suppose the person may not have 20/20 perfect eyesight, but we have no way to confirm or deny this fact (that individual has bad eyesight). Also the camera may be of poor quality. As the result - this person will have a photo at home, and will say "this is how the sky over Cicily looks in early morning". Technically - there is a photo proof, so it is true that the sky over Cicily did look like that at least on one of mornings. But then - you do see that photo is grainy, and the colors are either too bright or too dull, and you do not know how well this person can see, or how well this person can remember where and when he took that photo of the sky. The words of the individual, and the photo - are both true, but they may be quite far off the "ultimate Truth".
To make it even more complex: imagine this person has a child, who never visited Italy, but grew up looking at the photo of "morning skies in Cicily". For this child - the truth about Cicilian sky will be 100% of what he saw on the photo. If he never visits Cicily in a lifetime - he will die with a belief that sky over Cicily looks just like the photo taken by his dad.

For those of you who think that I'm obsessing over this, you can lighten up a bit - of course I'm trying to find someone who is generally what I'm looking for, before going into more detail with them about specific likes and dislikes.  Certainly their physical characteristics are not the ultimate prize.  I really don't have a problem with other people drinking if they want to - my problem is that I can't stand the smell or taste of alcohol (and Coca-Cola!), so of course I don't want to end up with someone whose breath is a total turnoff just when we're getting to the amorous stage.  Of course I do try to ensure that my breath is not something that can be judged in the same way!

Your real question is "will you not drink if we get married?". You are using the question "do you drink now?"/"did you drink before" as proxy to what you really want to know. Finding a woman who doesn't drink now, but will start having a glass of wine every now and then, for you is equally undesirable event as finding a woman who drinks now and will be drinking in future.
Your best bet would be looking spefically for a woman who has same condition as you do, or has individual intolerance of alcohol. There are such women, and I am sure you will be able to find one. But you need to indicate this preference in your profile.

[ECOCKS]

I would be one of those. You do come off as a bit anal retentive bordering on obsessive controlling. Listen, few men want a woman who is an alcoholic (although I'm sure there is some that do) but the use of alcohol is a personal choice, taste and decision. You sound like a guy who would deny his wife (or date) a glass of wine at dinner. If you don't like alcohol, don't drink it. But, allow your mate the latitude to decide for herself without her decision affecting you one way or the other.  FWIW

We're trying to help you by proffering the advice and commentary you asked for in your post/question.

If you really abhor alcohol in your own life and your expected partner's, then make it very clear in your profile and EOI-related messages.

It's your right to seek out whatever sort of mate/partner will make you happy but there are a few things you need to understand from what people have told you. There is a culture of drinking in Eastern Europe, particularly among men. One in five male deaths are alcohol-related. Get used to it. Drinking is part of their life and society.

Lie everywhere in the world, there are women who don't drink. You simply need to be persistent in your search for her. One of my sisters-in-law (along with her husband) doesn't drink at all. As someone suggested, you should probably look for those who are strong Christians, particularly baptists and other non-EE religions which discourage spirits.

[Jumper]

Well even the interpretations here , can be misleading?  
so i don't see how any profile can be taken all that seriously, or the person judged by their responses to it.

as silly example my *glass of wine with dinner, or a margarita or beer with some Mexican dish on vacation*
 wouldn't be a few times a week ,it would be more like  a few times annually. anywhere from 4 to 10 times perhaps.
 Pretty hard to describe that exact scenario in a profile, and frankly there is no need to.
the more generic, "i don't drink" covers it close enough for initial contacts.
In the FSU the fact that you don't drink at all,raises more eyebrows than if you did occasionally.
If I tried in the written part of some  profile to give *accurate* and exact details it would simply come off
as strange, it is not needed to go into that level of detail in the profile.
I think most profiles do not have a ton of thought put into them, just some basic information ..
some you can tell do put a lot of detail and effort.

I do not doubt if you searched through profiles right now ,that you could find women stating  that they absolutely do not drink, and mean it literally.
I certainly know RW they do not.ever.
(but i agree with GOB its rare)

Looking into  that culture , with your views ,you will simply have more dead ends.
That's not the end of the world, and you  really need to just be very clear up front in the initial contact or letters,
its just an exchange of information?
 A set amount of time you have to dedicate to finding someone that *might* be a good match ultimately.

Face that in your specific case, the weeding out process of profiles/email /writing well likely take longer,
 and that you have to strive for  a very clear understanding with out coming off as a bit *odd*

My ex (RW) drinks maybe the same as me, that's a but unusual in the culture, but it is not unheard of.
If everything else would be great, but a  bit of wine/beer breath, turns you off 4 to 10 times a year.. then yes you might be a tad over sensitive? and your quest in any country is limited,likewise the FSU.

I do not think anyone is trying to pick on your personal tastes,,
just trying to help you understand the differences and how to best find women that share your sensitivities.
Those sensitivities may not be shared by the average people in your culture or the one you are looking in.
but they are likely understood and may find others that share them, although they may share them for
personal moral or religious reasons rather your exact ones.

Most common mouth wash is very alcohol based ,would it similarly be a turn off?


You did mention coca cola as the same issue for you?
 Now you are stepping into an area that most people in both cultures ,whether they like ,or even drink coca cola ever or not, would find hyper  sensitive.This would be odd or bizzare to most in the FSU, though many of the women involved in this venture are possibly more used to that.

Does Pepsi have the same negative effect?
Coffee ? tea? (maybe its the caffeine breath? not the specific drink?)

[Shadow]

Thank you all for your insight - the obvious conclusion is that pretty well every FSUW lies in their profile! 

Not more than men. 

[Muzh]

For those of you who think that I'm obsessing over this, you can lighten up a bit - of course I'm trying to find someone who is generally what I'm looking for, before going into more detail with them about specific likes and dislikes.  Certainly their physical characteristics are not the ultimate prize.  I really don't have a problem with other people drinking if they want to - my problem is that I can't stand the smell or taste of alcohol (and Coca-Cola!), so of course I don't want to end up with someone whose breath is a total turnoff just when we're getting to the amorous stage.  Of course I do try to ensure that my breath is not something that can be judged in the same way!

Oy. Kiwi, stop dealing in absolutes. I'll relate my personal experience in the FSU. Most of the women (not girls since we don't normally hang out with girls) I've seen in Xapkiv will have ONE glass of wine and most probably will not finish it. Then there are others who will order another bottle of wine while the waiter is uncorking the first one. Trust me, you can't miss it. Finally, there are many women in the FSU who would be more than happy to be with a guy who would never drink as they consider drinking a waste of money; that is, for the exception of a very special occasion like a weeding, New Years, anniversary, etc.

IF you can live with that you can think of other important things you need to consider in this endeavor.

Good luck.

[Muzh]

Coffee ? tea? (maybe its the caffeine breath? not the specific drink?)

Now this would be a serious problem for him.

[mies]

Instead of accusing women in lies, maybe AnotherKiwi needs to admit and accept the fact that he is unusual and different in his needs from majority of population, be open about it with women, and let women choose him?
(just a thought)

[GQBlues]

I'm with AnotherKiwi on this...

I wouldn't put too much stock in people's profiles because they're usually laced with the 'Best Foot Forward' syndrome. In that regard, to answer the original Q, yes it's a lie.

The majority of the women I met had their profiles stating they didn't smoke either, but at the end of the day they mostly all tripped over themselves just to burn one down during our first meetings. Was it then a lie when their profile said they don't smoke - of course.

The FSU will be a tough place to go trying to find someone who doesn't 'drink' or 'smoke', but then I remember a guy on these boards one time who went to FSU in hopes of meeting and marrying a virgin. Most everyone told him he's nuts! Well, guess what happened?

Not all females in FSU drink or smoke as much as not every female in the US are fat, anymore than not all FSU-bound WMs are 'slim', dashing, heartbreaking Romeos either....I say stick to your ideals and standard and don't mind the noise.

[Jumper]

Instead of accusing women in lies, maybe AnotherKiwi needs to admit and accept the fact that he is unusual and different in his needs from majority of population, be open about it with women, and let women choose him?
(just a thought)

Hmm, That's what I was trying to say, in 200 words or more
:lol:

[Faux Pas]

AK

Just to further clarify my earlier post. You, like everybody else, wants what you want. There is nothing wrong with that. Yes, you do strike me as a bit anal about alcohol. I suspect your journey to actually find a FSUW who shares that the same distaste for alcohol while definitely possible, will be a long one. You may or may not tire of the journey before you reach the end of it.

If you just abhor any thought of the drink and don't want it around you is fine. That is your personal choice. If you are going to attempt control the choices of the woman in your life once you find one that has actually met the earlier criteria, that will be between you and her. I suspect that will also be another long journey.

Alcohol is ingrained in the society in the FSU. It's probably better that you recognize that now and recognize that the problem is yours to deal with as opposed to your respective mate. You'll likely pass over some wonderful ladies because of this obsessive compulsion of "yours".

This life we live isn't a dress rehearsal. It's the real deal and we only get one shot at it. In the grand scheme of things partaking of some libations now and again isn't the end of the world. Don't pet the sweaty things and don't sweat the small things. There are much worse going on in the world than some alcohol induced bad breath  

[Muzh]

AK

Just to further clarify my earlier post. You, like everybody else, wants what you want. There is nothing wrong with that. Yes, you do strike me as a bit anal about alcohol. I suspect your journey to actually find a FSUW who shares that the same distaste for alcohol while definitely possible, will be a long one. You may or may not tire of the journey before you reach the end of it.

If you just abhor any thought of the drink and don't want it around you is fine. That is your personal choice. If you are going to attempt control the choices of the woman in your life once you find one that has actually met the earlier criteria, that will be between you and her. I suspect that will also be another long journey.

Alcohol is ingrained in the society in the FSU. It's probably better that you recognize that now and recognize that the problem is yours to deal with as opposed to your respective mate. You'll likely pass over some wonderful ladies because of this obsessive compulsion of "yours".

This life we live isn't a dress rehearsal. It's the real deal and we only get one shot at it. In the grand scheme of things partaking of some libations now and again isn't the end of the world. Don't pet the sweaty things and don't sweat the small things. There are much worse going on in the world than some alcohol induced bad breath  

I'm not so sure about having a difficult time finding a "dry" RW, FP. If my experiences are any indication of the norm, I'd say there are more RWs who "don't drink" than those who do. As I mentioned earlier, those who don't drink will have the mandatory celebratory toast; to New Years or weddings or to health.

[Faux Pas]

Muzh

IMHO, perception isn't reality here. I suppose the only RW "I" know who doesn't drink is the MIL. This is the same woman who makes moonshine once a year in her kitchen. For celebrations and toasts she drinks something I suppose does have a hint of alcohol in it but, I couldn't taste it. I'd swear it was grape juice, she calls it "her wine". I think she wants to drink but she has blood pressure problems and she's very careful about it.

Honestly, I know probably 2 dozen RW on a close personal level and most of them would say  under most circumstances they don't drink but, you open a bottle of wine or Cognac even without a toast and watch them. Usually they are all very careful about excess but none will turn down at least a taste or two. I'm sure there are FSUW who don't drink. The perception of "drinking" is different in different cultures. Having a toast or a taste in Russian society isn't looked upon as it is in the West. One drop of liquor on the lips and some in the West will consider one a Tee-totaler

[Muzh]

That's funny about your MIL. Mine does the same. Very tasty samagon. However, my MIL will not "drink." Everytime I travel to UA I stay a minimum of 4 weeks. In those 4 weeks we have daily visits from my wife's friends and family. A lot of women ages 30 to 43, with the occasional 20 yo hardbody visiting my nephew. I sit with them to be courteous but it is tedious because all they do is talk, drink tea and eat cookies. Only when a husband shows up (actually,dragged in) we will sneak to the kitchen for a couple well earned shots. The ladies are well aware of the booze, still no one will take the offer for a "toast." Fine. More for me.

When we meet with some of my wife's former classmates (they are all doctors and a some are in high administrative positions) at a restaurant they will order the best vodka and wine. As usual, the women will have the mandatory glass of wine and the men will be lush, er.. I mean, men. To the point the wine will NOT go to waste.

That has been my experience for 10 years or so.

[GoodOlBoy]

....those who don't drink will have the mandatory celebratory toast; to New Years or weddings or to health.

International Womens Day, Birthdays, Unity Day, Christmas, Labour (Spring) Day, Russia Day, Defender's Day, Pay Day, Hate the boss/job Day........Na Zdorovie (На здоровье)!!

GOB

PS....I have been to PLENTY of parties in Siberia, trust me the women (young and old) "toast" frequently. :evil:

[SFandEE]

I have yet to see a post that indicates if religion is part of the reason for the "black and white" approach towards alcohol.  After seeing things about tea, coca-cola and such I suspect it may be.  If you are a member of a religion that prohibits consuming these substances date Ukrainian women that are committed to that religion as much as you are.

I am not trying to read between the lines, but the discussion has become somewhat repetitive.  Your position regardless of motive is fine, it limits your options, which is fine.  There are lovely women in FSU who do not drink alcohol ever, but you have to be more expressive on how severely important this is to you and that you do not tolerate this in a possible mate ever.  That way they get to know who you are and what matters to you.  They are entitled to that as much as you are entitled to an accurate and detailed self-evaluation of drinking preferences on a introductory service site.

If it is about religion--stay within that religion, you'll be better served.  Certainly don't try and convert someone who is a happy holiday drinker into a strict abstinant.  Let live and live.

[GoodOlBoy]

I have yet to see a post that indicates if religion is part of the reason for the "black and white" approach towards alcohol.

That's the 800 lb. gorilla (religion) in the room that no one is supposed to ask about.

GOB

[Turboguy]

I have yet to see a post that indicates if religion is part of the reason for the "black and white" approach towards alcohol.  After seeing things about tea, coca-cola and such I suspect it may be.  If you are a member of a religion that prohibits consuming these substances date Ukrainian women that are committed to that religion as much as you are.

Certainly don't try and convert someone who is a happy holiday drinker into a strict abstinant.  Let live and live.

I have a feeling if someone was looking for a RW who belonged to the same religion as he was that his search would be very long and hard.  About 99% of RW who are religious are members of the Russian Orthadox church.  Finding much else is like finding a needle in a hay stack.  To the best of the recollection of the many, many RW I corresponded with or met over the years I belive two were not R.O. 

Drinking (or not drinking actually) was something that was important to me in my search.  It has nothing to do with religion, I just am not much of a drinker.  I am not a total teatoatler and once in a long while will have a glass of wine, a beer or a mixed drink.  My wife enjoys a glass of wine every once in a while and that is fine with me.  I did meet some women who were very heavy drinkers and to me that was just not something I could accept. 

[Faux Pas]

That's funny about your MIL. Mine does the same. Very tasty samagon. However, my MIL will not "drink." Everytime I travel to UA I stay a minimum of 4 weeks. In those 4 weeks we have daily visits from my wife's friends and family. A lot of women ages 30 to 43, with the occasional 20 yo hardbody visiting my nephew. I sit with them to be courteous but it is tedious because all they do is talk, drink tea and eat cookies. Only when a husband shows up (actually,dragged in) we will sneak to the kitchen for a couple well earned shots. The ladies are well aware of the booze, still no one will take the offer for a "toast." Fine. More for me.

When we meet with some of my wife's former classmates (they are all doctors and a some are in high administrative positions) at a restaurant they will order the best vodka and wine. As usual, the women will have the mandatory glass of wine and the men will be lush, er.. I mean, men. To the point the wine will NOT go to waste.

That has been my experience for 10 years or so.

Well Muzh, time is a truer test than mine and you've got 10 years  Mine is just my observation and I've seen many times where the women sit around drinking tea and aren't interested in nothing else. The point of my statement was really, whether they do or don't, it isn't a big deal and little is thought of it. But, there is little restraint and it doesn't really change their status of "non-drinkers"

My wife and a few of her close friends have in the past had "girl parties" and this is about the only time any of them (that I am aware of) might have had too much drink. They cook, eat, drink cognac/wine, then tea and get a little goofy. I've noticed they very careful not to over imbibe. A talent I have never had. These times are much rarer since my wife lives now in the states.

[FredC]

I know that I had a different issue in my search, I cannot have children, which I made very clear in my profile. Many lady's profiles would say that they wanted children. When ask about this if they contacted me, some would say that they meant that they would be willing to have more children with a new husband.

So just be clear what you are looking for in your profile and if you are not willing to compromise on the issue then don't.

[Anotherkiwi]

Others?  Most everyone is saying this is simply a difference between your interpretation and a RW's interpretation of the question (i. e., the cultural definition of "no alcohol"). 

Gator, this is my language, which I've spoken for over 50 years.  Cultural definitions don't come into it - "No" means "No!"  Whether she has answered "Yes" or "No" to the question in the pro-forma part of the profile, there is nothing to stop an FSUW expanding on her drinking habits in the part of her profile which is free form (as I have done with mine on each site where I'm a member).  Just take the standard extreme version of when "No" is taken by someone to mean "Yes" or "Maybe" - it's called rape.                         

It appears that you think in a rigid "black or white" mode.  I found many RW tend to be the same.

Two people from different cultures and both with "black or white" attitudes.......attempting to have a relationship....trouble. 

There are plenty of shades of grey in my life - just not in this area.  How many of the members here smoke?  A lot less than drink alcohol, obviously, but how many of you compromised your ideals by marrying a smoker?

You need to start corresponding and talking with a few RW.  Those experiences will give you much valuable feedback.

I've been doing this for a few years - I've made two trips to Russia and one to Ukraine, and I've spoken to a lot of FSUW.  The experiences I've had with them have made me feel that that is definitely the right part of the world to be looking for that special someone - I just haven't found her yet.

Instead of accusing women in lies, maybe AnotherKiwi needs to admit and accept the fact that he is unusual and different in his needs from majority of population, be open about it with women, and let women choose him?
(just a thought)

Mies, you usually talk a lot of sense, and I enjoy reading your posts.  I know that I'm different in this sense, but unusual?  I don't think so.  I know other men who don't drink, happily married to women who don't drink either.  As I wrote above, I have made all of this clear in my profiles, and it hasn't stopped the letters arriving.  Maybe one of them will be the one.

I'm with AnotherKiwi on this...

I wouldn't put too much stock in people's profiles because they're usually laced with the 'Best Foot Forward' syndrome. In that regard, to answer the original Q, yes it's a lie...
Not all females in FSU drink or smoke as much as not every female in the US are fat, anymore than not all FSU-bound WMs are 'slim', dashing, heartbreaking Romeos either....I say stick to your ideals and standard and don't mind the noise.

Thank you!

I have yet to see a post that indicates if religion is part of the reason for the "black and white" approach towards alcohol.  After seeing things about tea, coca-cola and such I suspect it may be.  If you are a member of a religion that prohibits consuming these substances date Ukrainian women that are committed to that religion as much as you are.
...
If it is about religion--stay within that religion, you'll be better served.  Certainly don't try and convert someone who is a happy holiday drinker into a strict abstinant.  Let live and live.

Where on earth does religion come into this?  I posted earlier that I can't stand the smell or taste of alcohol, and now I'm supposed to be a member of some religious order that eschews alcohol?  For the record, I never mentioned tea or coffee (I drink both).  But, in answer to an earlier post, Pepsi does fit into the same bucket as Coke for me - it's the cola taste, not the brand!

I know that I had a different issue in my search, I cannot have children, which I made very clear in my profile. Many lady's profiles would say that they wanted children. When ask about this if they contacted me, some would say that they meant that they would be willing to have more children with a new husband.

So just be clear what you are looking for in your profile and if you are not willing to compromise on the issue then don't.

Thank you Fred - that's the point I'm trying to make.

If, and it's a BIG if, I do end up with someone who has the occasional drink, of course I'm not going to try to convert her into a teetotaller - if she decides that she's happy to do so, that's a different story.