Ukraine/Russian women or Latin women....

[Kapitanleutnant]

Guys, I know this is the Russian side of things but....

I'm having a really tough time deciding to seek out a Ukrainian woman or a Latin woman and am looking for some suggestions on what you all think.     Being a more Russian Ukraine forum, I would understand the bias.

Here's the thing:  to me, the RW/UW are physically stunning... no doubt about it.   Most seem to be tall, high cheek bones etc.   Must be something in the water there!   HOWEVER, what concerns me about them as a whole is.... their personality.    I'm fully aware that you can't brush a broad stroke over them but I think some of you if not most might agree that these girls will probably never have to buy anti wrinkle cream because of too much smiling.   I get the feel they're awfully serious as a whole and don't have much of a sense of humor.   I enjoy a sense of humor a great deal and this is something important for me in a relationship.   I'm worried these girls will be rather cold in general.   Yes, I know it's part of their culture.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is this..... Would you think it worth the trip to the Ukraine which is much closer to where I live to meet women from Odessa/Nikolaev/Kherson (AFA Tour) OR....

Go to Colombia or Peru where the woman are not quite as physically appealing to me generally speaking (although there are some stunners there as well) but may be a bit more "personable" to chat with and make you feel more welcome.   I also get the sense that the Latin women would not be nearly the scammer types as the UW/RW.   On this forum in the trip report section, I seem to read more than a few times that the UW/RW ask for things to be bought for them... not all of them, but a good number from what I'm reading.  

I know it may sound like I've already answered my own question here, but I'm honestly at a loss as to where to go during my next vacation in May.... Ukraine or Colombia/Peru.  

Ukraine Pluses:   Stunning women, family oriented from what I can tell, not very affectionate, only 3 hours from where I live, seem rather materialistic at times, close enough to take a long weekend to go see the woman I like

Latin Pluses:  Attractive women, very family oriented, seemingly very affectionate, 16 hours from where I live (ugh), not close enough to just go over for a long weekend to meet more women or see the same one again.  

So... thoughts are appreciated.

K

[Muzh]

LMFAO

Kapitan:

I have had the honor (or misfortune?) to have extensively sampled both and I can recommend you not to waste 16 hrs to be disappointed.

Unless you dig the Mayan or Incan features on these ladies, those who may look appealing to you WILL NOT be what they seem to be.

But, you don't have to take my word for it.

[Jumper]

Muzh's words  X2
 

 I've been long term in Brazil..work visa.. and years of experience in Mexico.

I was married for 7 years to a Ukrainian.

So the same as my advise to you in another thread,
 you'd be insane IMHO, to fly from being European based, and somewhat interested in a 3 hour trip to FSU areas, to instead head to Latin America.


Also, you are basing this choice mostly off a  perception of RW being too serious ,not smiling ,not having
 a good sense of humor *generally*.This just a perception,  and mostly a false one!!

At least in my experience, your average (generality) RW ,is far more likely to have a great sense of humor and a real zest for enjoying life.I would say generally that together  I've had a good laugh  daily with any RW i've ever been involved with.
Individuality of course comes into play, but the perceived lack of smiling is mostly *in public* and mostly situational. Again my experience is RW generally  smile honestly and frequently, enjoy doing so, and in fact have great senses of humor.
I do think the harsh realities of life can make the people of the FSU  a bit more serious minded, and  more pragmatic in looking over a situation they will often tend to cut right to the root of it.
This same sometimes harsh reality seems to endear the populace with a real appreciation for life, the important things , and generally a quick wit and ability to laugh or find humor in most any situation.


The people of latin american  are *generally* fun loving as well,
but if a man was looking for someone really fun, outgoing,  personable ,your odds would seem higher
 in the FSU.
i just think you are basing this choice off a perhaps understandable ,but incorrect, perception of Russians/Ukrainians...

[dbneeley]

Personally, I like both cultures very much--and I have seen gorgeous women in both Latin America and of course here in the FSU.

As others have said,  your belief that FSUW "don't smile often" is completely fallacious--they simply tend not to smile as readily to strangers on the street.

As I've said before, I think you are wasting your time and money on an AFA tour, but that is an entirely separate issue. (If you're worried about wasting a sixteen hour trip to Latin America, what about the week or more you may be wasting on a big-agency tour?)

Obviously, people vary hugely in personality, but I think the incidence of ladies with really sparkling personalities and some very active senses of humor are likely no higher in either place that you might be able to determine.

Once you have a bit more actual experience, why not come back and tell us if you still feel the same way?

David

[Daveman]

Guys, I know this is the Russian side of things but....

I'm having a really tough time deciding to seek out a Ukrainian woman or a Latin woman and am looking for some suggestions on what you all think.     Being a more Russian Ukraine forum, I would understand the bias.

Here's the thing:  to me, the RW/UW are physically stunning... no doubt about it.   Most seem to be tall, high cheek bones etc.   Must be something in the water there!   HOWEVER, what concerns me about them as a whole is.... their personality.    I'm fully aware that you can't brush a broad stroke over them but I think some of you if not most might agree that these girls will probably never have to anti wrinkle cream because of too much smiling.   I get the feel they're awfully serious as a whole and don't have much of a sense of humor.   I enjoy a sense of humor a great deal and this is something important for me in a relationship.   I'm worried these girls will be rather cold in general.   Yes, I know it's part of their culture.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is this..... Would you think it worth the trip to the Ukraine which is much closer to where I live to meet women from Odessa/Nikolaev/Kherson (AFA Tour) OR....

>>I get the feel they're awfully serious as a whole and don't have much of a sense of humor.   

Not even close.  And agreeing with AJ, I've managed to find a SLEW of them with amazing and wonderful senses of humor.    The "not smiling in photos" can be true for many, but in person not at all.  What they DON'T typically do is smile at strangers, say waiting for or on a bus, metro station, street, whatever... but with family and friends the smiles are most always there.

We tend to smile at each other as a way of communicating "hello", or "hey, I may LOOK like Manson, but I'm not going to actually kill you today...maybe tomorrow"  They don't really do that (well SOME do, but generally not).. I've noticed recently that here in Ukraine I have received a lot more smiles from strangers than I did even two years ago - so perhaps that is also changing.

as far as Latin women... I dated a hispanic lady here in the states a few years back.. she was cool, sweet, INTENSE,  and quite beautiful...  but she was born and raised in the USA so I guess that wouldn't count!  

[Faux Pas]

   I'm fully aware that you can't brush a broad stroke over them but I think some of you if not most might agree that these girls will probably never have to anti wrinkle cream because of too much smiling.   I get the feel they're awfully serious as a whole and don't have much of a sense of humor.   I enjoy a sense of humor a great deal and this is something important for me in a relationship.   I'm worried these girls will be rather cold in general.   Yes, I know it's part of their culture.

Oy the broad brush stroke indeed. You couldn't be more wrong kaptitanL. Keep in mind much of what you are reading on this and other forums is heartache, heartbreak and crash and burns. Men, because of the way we are wired instinctively look for something other than ego bruising when a relationship doesn't work out for whatever reason. Perhaps Eastern women do seem a bit on the cold side when first meeting. It's only perception. My wife and I had a discussion as to why and the difference between Americans and Russians the other day. Thats another story for another day but, let me assure you. You never meet or ever know anyone more warmer and caring than a FSUW (just like American women) once they get to know and are comfortable with you. It's only your inexperienced perception.

   

I also get the sense that the Latin women would not be nearly the scammer types as the UW/RW.   On this forum in the trip report section, I seem to read more than a few times that the UW/RW ask for things to be bought for them... not all of them, but a good number from what I'm reading. 

I know it may sound like I've already answered my own question here, but I'm honestly at a loss as to where to go during my next vacation in May.... Ukraine or Colombia/Peru. 

 

I have a good friend of mine an American Doctor. He has always done very well with the ladies with/of any features. He chooses to date only Latina women. He briefly considered  RW after meeting my wife but, for whatever reason is sticking to Latinas. Latin women have a reputation for hot tempers and I got to tell you, I do know some extremely beautiful Latin women. Many have the idea that they do not retain their beauty into the latter years of life but of course that is just opinion.

It's all a matter of preference and IMO there is a difference in Latinas and FSUW, a significant different. Not good, not bad, just different

[SomeGuy]

I think along with the others that you are extending some generalizations and misunderstandings a bit too far, without firsthand experience.
As mentioned, not smiling to random strangers on the street does not mean cold; and most/many are quite warm with their friends and families, people they know personally.

I spent several years with a Latin American woman who had immigrated to the US previously, and am now married to an FSUW.  The only real generalizations I'd consider are:
1.  It's easier to find an educated FSUW than one from Latin America.
2.  In general, Latinas do tend to have a more, err, 'robust' figure earlier on, and obviously darker complexion and hair colors.
3.  Interesting choices in colors and decorating many Latin Americans have, often considered on the loud side by some.

If you're only a few hours away, I think you're nuts to not make a trip to the FSU based simply on misconceptions.

[Muzh]

Wait Mon Kapitan, I didn't mean to say there was anything wrong with latinas. God forbid! My hottest experinces were with latinas and they usually are extremely faithful. Hot tempered, but faithful.

My advice to you was based on the huge gap (in everything) that will exist between you and a latina. There are countries with very well educated latinas while there are others where education is a luxury. The educated ones will lust after an European man, definitely. But don't think that you will find a hot number 15 years your junior who will leave everything behind to be with you, that is, unless she has nothing to lose.

Oh, wait. I just described the IMB from the FSU.

Never mind.

[SANDRO43]

 Most seem to be tall, high cheekbones etc.  Must be something in the water there! 

A few centuries of intermingling with Tatar/Mongol invaders, more likely .

[Turboguy]

When I started with the idea of meeting a foreign woman I started off writing women from South and Central America.  My origional impression of RW was that they were personafied by the Bridget Neilson from Rocky 4 or whichever Rocky movie it was.  I have to say my first call the the Russian Embassy reinforced that opionion. 

There can be some very attractive S. A. women.  My impression goes along with the others here.  They tend to be very passionate and hot tempered but probably faithful. There are some S. A. women with light skin and blond hair but many are darker skinned with black hair.   Most tend to be a little hippy and tend to add weight as they age even worse then AW do.  I did date an occasional S. A. women in the USA but mostly briefly and casually.  I don't consider myself to be an expert on S. A. women but I do have a lot of experience with RW.

I think what your concerns are will turn out to be completly unfounded.  My wife is the exact opposite of what you describe.  She is always cheerful and smiling and a pleasure to be around.  My first fiancee also could be funny and fun and enjoyable to be around.  She was a little bipolar so she could easily be the opposite at times too.  I have met a number of other women from Russia and got to know a few well.  I actually think most were as happy, and friendly as AW if not more so.  If you like hippy, dark skinned women go to S. A.  otherwise take your tour or at least go meet some R.W. and find out for yourself.  You won't regret it. 

[GQBlues]

An apple may taste the same to everyone else but likely not going to be a preferred fruit for the same lot.

One of the best looking woman I've ever been with is Peruvian. Latina women, IME, as a whole, are hot-blooded and fiery yet blends that with unyielding loyalty. Add Brazil and Venezuela to that mix. There's a reason why Venezuela held both the Ms World/Universe in the same year.

Find out for yourself and enjoy..

[Kapitanleutnant]

OK.... so what I'm getting is I have a misconception of the RW/UW.    Point taken.   I would argue that it's not because of my "inexperience" as someone said.     I did bring a RW home back in '95 on the K1 visa after a tour so I have had some experience here and I work with a number of U&RW. 

Thanks gentlemen!

K

[Faux Pas]

OK.... so what I'm getting is I have a misconception of the RW/UW.    Point taken.   I would argue that it's not because of my "inexperience" as someone said.     I did bring a RW home back in '95 on the K1 visa after a tour so I have had some experience here and I work with a number of U&RW. 

Thanks gentlemen!

K

After a tour? What happened to the relationship? Sounds like good fodder for another thread

[GQBlues]

OK.... so what I'm getting is I have a misconception of the RW/UW.    Point taken.   I would argue that it's not because of my "inexperience" as someone said. 

Plenty of times one can appreciate the notion opposite attracts. Go for the dark meat, you just might like it. You won't know until you do...

[Kapitanleutnant]

What happened?  Well, I had written a young lady from Ekaterinburg before going on the Social Tour and never heard from her.    While at the first social, I had honestly forgotten about her because there were so many other girls there to meet (in a pure numbers kind of way).   This large hotel ballroom for the Social had a large staircase and I happen to be standing at the bottom of it looking up and ..... there she was... the girl who never wrote back.    I went up to her and said her name and told her who I was.    She remembered that I'd written her.   She was luke warm to me but I was determined.   I kept at her all night and ended up spending a lot of time with her touring Moscow during the last 7 days of the 10 day tour.   We met once in Prague for about 4-5 days.   We had some chemistry although not as much as I'd hoped.    Filled out paperwork for her to come to US.   6 months later, she arrived and we had fun, but I was 36 and she was 23.  13 years is not necessarily a big difference... unless you're talking about this type of age range.    While she was quite mature for her age, what ended up being our demise was several things:   Me not having a better plan for her to be "doing things" or even working while I was on my trips - Cultural differences - Her missing her mom greatly (homesickness... she was an only child) and she told me she didn't really like the US.   Bit of a shock there.....

So on the 80th day of the 90 day visa we had a talk and I told her.....  "It's not working out, is it?"  And she shook her head yes.   So we enjoyed the last 10 days and on the 89th day of the visa, I took her to the airport and sent her off on Aeroflot back home.   

She was a really good good sweet girl.   I wish I could have met her about 10 years later in life....

K 

[Muzh]

She was a really good good sweet girl.   I wish I could have met her about 10 years later in life....

K 

Ten years later you would have been exactly my age and her exactly my wife's age when we got married.

I can tell you that ten years earlier I would not have married my wife.

[SomeGuy]

Sorry to hear about that, K.  It obviously happens, though.
Regarding your perception of 'cold,' though - are you basing this off of your prior K1, work acquaintances, and if mostly the latter, is it not possibly the difference 'in public or professional' behavior compared to when with friends or family?

The Latin 'heat' - there may be something in that.  My (former) Latina didn't have the happy to screaming rapid change in 60 seconds that some do, more like many people in that some things can build up, others brushed off...but some of her friends definitely did.

With your K1 experience, there are a few good articles out there on culture shock worth a read.  In a lot of cases, it's going to take some time, and isn't so much a case of instant 'love' (location) forevermore, but realizing that many things are different, which may or may not always be looked at objectively.  I agree, your K1 experience would probably make for a good additional thread, and I'm sure people would benefit from you mentioning the things she did not like about the US. ??

[LAman]

Difference between a LW and RW...hmmmmmm, lets just say it can be seen mostly from behind, if you know what I mean.......

[ML]

The physical feature/attraction does vary quite a bit from culture to culture.

I assume most everyone is aware that in some African cultures, a huge/huge ass on the woman is very desired.

Also, I read that in Brazil, the popular thing for women now is to get breast 'reductions.'

It's great in this century that many of us can decide what physical features we most desire; and then travel to areas where those features are plentiful.

Of course, even with the physical features, it is still very hard to find the right woman/man when you need to factor in all the non-physical things that are important.  But at least, you can start out with a big hunk of your requirements being met.

Compare this to the situation where some are stuck with what is available in their neighborhood.

[Shadow]

Once again, why limit yourself ? Write to every woman on the planet that you are interested in, find which ones (or one) you feel best connected to and visit them to see if the electronich chemistry can be translated in to real life.
Who cares where she lives now, in which country or city ? Why care what her background, ethnic race, education or whatever other criteria are ?

All you need is one single woman who will make you feel special, one who you know you can spend the rest of your life with no matter if she gets old and you become prettier with age...
She may live in Southern America, the may live in Donetsk, or she may live next door to you.
Do not exclude anything, and keep the best.

[Jumper]

Shadow has a good point,
Having spent a lot of time in Brazil i certainly wouldnt say anything bad about the women there.
or for that matter anywhere!

Look all over? why not?

My main point was that you were concerened at wasting  a 16 hour flight..since  you are only  3 hours from the FSU.
So being mildy interested in both places, i certainly wouldn't write the close one off over the perceptions you gave as reasons.

Your past RW experience seems very  *positive* in light of the actual situation?
*****
She was luke warm to me but I was determined.   I kept at her all night and ended up spending a lot of time with her touring Moscow during the last 7 days of the 10 day tour.   We met once in Prague for about 4-5 days.  We had some chemistry although not as much as I'd hoped.     Filled out paperwork for her to come to US. 
*********


Not knocking this at all..
but just to put things in perspective?
 you met this RW at a social, knew her  two weeks tops,  face to face before a K1.
The time with you during the K1 ,she was adapting to culture shock, homesickness, and facing the decision of marriage
 with a 90 day clock ticking ,  at the age of 23..and all when you were not sure the chemistry was GREAT between you (and she likely felt the same).
Still you find her to be a great person, and seem to have good memories.

While personality differences abound in any country, warm bubbly/ cold fish , etc...
i'd certainly feel her own prersonality during these times was more than a bit stressed .. and its unlikely she's be at the top of  her game in smiling or happiness..
It's  a lot of assumption on my part yes =O sorry..lol
but if given a more relaxed situation, and she was REALLY into you,and you into her,  and great chemistry ,
my take is your "perception " of RW might be a lot different.Not sure.

I'm not implying they are all angels or *bubbly, happy go luckies*
but in a true family situation the *generality* would be much more closely attuned to: 
*incredibly loving,doting,  warm and  downright funny/humorous*

than *cold /too serious*


Hey you seem in a position to likely have inexpensive travel pretty much anywhere..
Take advantage of that and see where it leads..

 

[Rubicon]

Guys, I know this is the Russian side of things but....

I'm having a really tough time deciding to seek out a Ukrainian woman or a Latin woman and am looking for some suggestions on what you all think.     Being a more Russian Ukraine forum, I would understand the bias.

Here's the thing:  to me, the RW/UW are physically stunning... no doubt about it.   Most seem to be tall, high cheek bones etc.   Must be something in the water there!   HOWEVER, what concerns me about them as a whole is.... their personality.    I'm fully aware that you can't brush a broad stroke over them but I think some of you if not most might agree that these girls will probably never have to buy anti wrinkle cream because of too much smiling.   I get the feel they're awfully serious as a whole and don't have much of a sense of humor.   I enjoy a sense of humor a great deal and this is something important for me in a relationship.   I'm worried these girls will be rather cold in general.   Yes, I know it's part of their culture.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is this..... Would you think it worth the trip to the Ukraine which is much closer to where I live to meet women from Odessa/Nikolaev/Kherson (AFA Tour) OR....

Go to Colombia or Peru where the woman are not quite as physically appealing to me generally speaking (although there are some stunners there as well) but may be a bit more "personable" to chat with and make you feel more welcome.   I also get the sense that the Latin women would not be nearly the scammer types as the UW/RW.   On this forum in the trip report section, I seem to read more than a few times that the UW/RW ask for things to be bought for them... not all of them, but a good number from what I'm reading.  

I know it may sound like I've already answered my own question here, but I'm honestly at a loss as to where to go during my next vacation in May.... Ukraine or Colombia/Peru.  

Ukraine Pluses:   Stunning women, family oriented from what I can tell, not very affectionate, only 3 hours from where I live, seem rather materialistic at times, close enough to take a long weekend to go see the woman I like

Latin Pluses:  Attractive women, very family oriented, seemingly very affectionate, 16 hours from where I live (ugh), not close enough to just go over for a long weekend to meet more women or see the same one again.  

So... thoughts are appreciated.

K

I am going to get lombasted but I happen to agree with you that Russian Ukrainian women can be cold.  my opinion is that they are far too materialistic, and are very cold and calculating about always looking for a better deal.  this is borne out in very high divorce rates in Russia and Ukraine (go to agencyscams.com to see divorce rates).  I will not even bother writing to a woman if she does not have a photo with a genuine smile posted in her profile.  I think that either she does not know how to smile, does not have a good sense of humor, and/or needs $5000.00 worth of dental work, of which you will be expected to pay for.  on the other hand, I have dated women from Mexico and one in particular from Ecuador.  if I could go back in time I would marry the woman from Ecuador because I had the chance but got cold feet.  each latin american woman I dated had a very warm personality, and I felt they genuinely loved me, as opposed to me just being a wallet and a means to get a green card (the lady from Ecuador already lived here in the USA and had her green card so that was never a question).  when I travelled to Mexico or South America I found the service to be excellent and friendly; as well the people are happy go lucky and friendly no matter how poor they are.  Russian service on the other hand is often slow and the servers non caring and even surly.  the people on the street are mostly unfriendly and appear to be surly.  only when making close friends and/or if they are drinking do they become friendlier.  again go to agencyscams.com and look at the survey done in 2006--
people from South America are the happiest people in the world, while people from Russia and Ukraine are the unhappiest people.  Russians have the annoying habit of walking around you as if you are not there, when you are standing in line for something.  clerks at stores are too lazy too count change, and/or are instructed not to by their bosses.  

of approximately 3,900 K1 visa applications in 2003, only 17% were married at the end of one year.  If there were tours for Georgia (the country) or Croatia, I would go there, as they have very low divorce rates.  I might go live in Croatia for one or two months anyway as I like their geography and history and architecture.

the above criticisms being made, I think that if you are only 3 hours away you should go for it and go for a visit.  like other posters above I like Kharkov.  I would highly recommend that you check out www.mordinson.com an agency owned and operated by natives of Kharkov.  when you are dealing with a large American owned agency, if there is some sort of scam, they will simply tell you that they cannot be held responsible for what the feeder agencies in Ukraine do (such as writing letters for a woman to you without her knowledge).  with Mordinson you are dealing directly with the agency and they are proud of their reputation.  
the price of Mordinson includes airport pick ups and staying in a luxury apartment, which is definitely preferred to staying at a hotel.  in other words their prices are all inclusive.  unlimited dates and translation is included.  you only need to pay for food and incidentals.

I also like Vinnitsa, a city out of the way and ignored by many.  I would never go near Lugansk.  Odessa and Nikolaev have bad reputations; but who knows you might get lucky.

I would not spend any time whatsoever persuing a woman who did not return my letter.  I am not sure why you did that with the woman who became your first K1 visa.

If you live in Germany (Lufthansa??) or somewhere else in Europe, there are usually large Russian populations so why not try dating a Russian there to see how it goes??

if you are going on a big tour A foreign affair seems the best of the big ones but you will be staying in a hotel.   you should also call Jack Bragg and check him out.

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor, it seems that finding the one special woman for you is like finding a needle in the haystack, but why give up??

[Jumper]

Rubicon,

not lombasting you

As with anything there certainly are materialistic women there or anywhere, and the culture is different regarding standing in line, *customer service with a smile*, etc.


A couple questions /points-
  I think many men when going to the FSU, often meet a certain *type* of RW,
because of the means used in the serearcjh, determines whom they are most likely to be in contact with .
I honestly do not feel this *type* represents your average RW at all.

Many of those here with marriage under thier belts, and in depth time spent in ukraine or russia with friends, relatives,
 families, tend to see that *type* 1000 yards away, and generally dont find them *typical*.
It's not that the type  are unsual, i'll give you that, heck there is even a class /instruction *school* on how to be a perfect *sterva* , as some silly sought after trait of a few young dev's.

but i do truly feel that many western men never get past the first layer of the FSU /RW /culture /society onion.
To truly spend time in family enviroments there ,see the normal day to day interaction of men or women who would never cross thier minds of relocation.

as silly example: i don't think you find many average RW, at some big social.Maybe a few, but i'd feel thety would be in the minority?While finding a somewhat materialistic one, wouldn't be very difficult at all?
i just dont think that reflects the populace at large.

of approximately 3,900 K1 visa applications in 2003, only 17% were married at the end of one year

Interesting,
total K1'as ?
 or FSU based K1's?
where did that info come from?
link?

i've seen similar stats before many times, and it almost always indicated K1 visa applicants who left the USA within one year of thier initial arrival date.
Which had little to no bearing on whether they had married or not, where returning home or not, or simply traveling with thier new husband.

That may not be the case here, but at 17% ,
i'd like to read the actual source statitics if you have them.
 

[Faux Pas]

I am going to get lombasted but I happen to agree with you that Russian Ukrainian women can be cold.  my opinion is that they are far too materialistic, and are very cold and calculating about always looking for a better deal.  

Now who would be surprised that this is the women you find and attract?

[Kapitanleutnant]

Rubicon...

You pretty much hit the nail on the head with how I feel about the women there.     As my buddy says, "They always seem to be looking for the BBD".   I ask what the BBD is.   He says, "The Bigger, Better Deal".   

One of my routes I fly is to Moscow and on the few occasions I've been there, I still get the feel that the people in general are just not very friendly.   

My cabin crew from the eastern european countries will tell me something like this... "All you westerners will smile at anyone and think you've made a friend for life".    I say to them, "Well of course... we're a friendly bunch of people and like to make others around us feel welcome".     They ask why.   I laugh and say, "Why would you NOT want to just offer a quick smile to someone to make them a little happier during their day than rather give them a frown and scowl".    They say, "Because you don't know who they are".    I say, "But it doesn't matter who they are....  why shouldn't we make the world a little nicer place by offering a smile to a complete stranger which even you would agree is a good thing instead of a blank, mean stare down back at them"     

So far, out of about 6 I've had this conversation with, I've convinced about 5 of them that it's a good thing (acceptable to them) to smile at strangers.    In fact, the RW/UW who have lived in the westernized countries only take about 15 seconds to just see my side of it.    That last one though.... she was a tough cookie.   Just didn't want to buy the deal about smiling at strangers.   

And it's not so much that you have to put on a big smile per se, but rather.... just don't look at the other person you're passing on the sidewalk as if he just killed your dog!!!!     

So to the RW/UW, I guess I'd say something from the movie Stripes... "Lighten up, Francis!"      Or better yet, "Lighten up, Natasha... I didn't just kill your dog.   I'm just trying to make your day a teensy bit more pleasant if you can understand that".   

Rant over...

K