Ash's St. Pete thread

[JR]

Probably a good idea.

[Kunstkammer]

What part of the city are you planning on staying in?  How long will you be here and what do you plan on doing?  What part of April?  It can either be pretty nice or pretty terrible depending.  It is possible to still have piles of dirt and snow and trash that has been buried in the snow all winter all over the place and ice-cycles falling off of buildings killing people with boats needed to cross the street, or it is possible when you arrive the flowers will be planted and in bloom, all the signs of winter gone and the sky always blue.  April is the ultimate ugly/beautiful month in this fair city, depending on how the weather goes your choices of things to do could be radically different.

[ML]

Contact Irina at http://www.introbyirina.com/flatfiles/2-5.html

She was able to find me a fantastic flat for pretty cheap (the one in the photos in the link I sent)...1 block off Nevsky...I think I paid 70 bucks a night or something and the place was clean, cozy and plenty large for two people. Just tell her your price range and she'll give you some options. I called her after I was already in Piter on my first visit and she hooked me up.

Stay at your lady's place after you get to know each other.

I can second this.  Irina is one of best in all of FSU.
I have known her since year 2000 and she worked
with me several times on my business trips to SPb.

She has extensive list of recommenders on her website.
Husband Mikhail is top notch straight shooter also.

Her email:  imb_2002@mail.ru

[ML]

This is a bit off topic but do any of you guys have trouble with your accents when speaking to your RW?

Im Australian and i have a fairly strong accent but by no means incomprehensable one of the girls im talking to has  trouble with my accent although i know not to use slang terms ect and i speak slowly,what about you americans and englishman ect do you blokes have any such trouble?  AsH

The Australian accent is one of worst in the world, period; and very hard in particular for FSU people to understand.

I know of those  in  FSU with excellent English spoken and listening skills.
After a meeting with man from Australia the say . . .  I understood not a word he said all evening.

On the other hand; no one in the world cannot understand English as spoken by Americans from the heartland and the western USA.

[ML]

If she's interested AsH, you'll know it.

I have read this dozens of times here; but now I'm not so sure that I buy into it completely.

I have now had a few encounters where the first contacts and dates were not all that great because the woman seemed somewhat indifferent.

But then suddenly or gradually . . . they became very romantic and even sex kittens.
Told me it was their thought from the very beginning; but just wanted time to lead up to it.

Still true though, that those 'instant attractions' and 'instant chemistry' cases are more fun and certainly more relaxing.

However, don't give up immediately on a seemingly indifferent woman . . . if she has many of the qualities you are looking for.

But still . . . don't be foolish and chase such a woman for very long.

And for sure; never do a VO with such a woman.

Of my 4 best sex partners of all time:
2 were those who came on strong to me in messages and instant attraction occurred at first meeting.
2 were women who wrote virtually nothing in their messages and smiled little on first date.

Go figure.

[AsH]

The Australian accent is one of worst in the world, period; and very hard in particular for FSU people to understand.

Slightly offensive but your opinion.

[AsH]

The Australian accent is one of worst in the world, period; and very hard in particular for FSU people to understand.

I know of those  in  FSU with excellent English spoken and listening skills.
After a meeting with man from Australia the say . . .  I understood not a word he said all evening.

On the other hand; no one in the world cannot understand English as spoken by Americans from the heartland and the western USA.

What am i supposed to do then ? Try an american accent

[Chicagoguy]

What am i supposed to do then ? Try an american accent

 

[ML]

What am i supposed to do then ? Try an american accent

No.

To add on to what David wrote:

Actually English as spoken by Americans from the heartland and the western USA
. . . . . HAS NO ACCENT.  That is why it is understandable all around the world.

Most all call centers in USA (those 1-800 numbers) used to go into the USA heartland (before they started being farmed out to India and the Philippines).

There was a good reason . . . based on the NO ACCENT idea.

Those living in the deep south USA and northeast USA can understand the English spoken in the heartland; but not vice versa.

The key to making your English understandable is not to try to adopt another accent;
but rather to get rid of your accent.

[SANDRO43]

What am i supposed to do then ? Try an american accent

...or secure the services of a good speech coach :

[youtube=325,250]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVmU3iANbgk[/youtube][youtube=325,250]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKlub5vB9z8[/youtube]

[AsH]

You missed the sarcasim manlooking.

[Anotherkiwi]

No.
To add on to what David wrote:
Actually English as spoken by Americans from the heartland and the western USA
. . . . . HAS NO ACCENT.  That is why it is understandable all around the world...

You've gotta be kidding!  If someone has no accent it basically means that you can't tell where they come from.  Some on here may disagree, but I was told that Russian is probably the most "accentless" major language because the whole country is taught the same way, with the same speech patterns, and has been for 70-80 (?) years.

Because we get force-fed so much TV from the USA, I can tell the difference between southern, north-east, California, etc.  No way could anyone from your country be described as having no accent.  Whether or not someone from the "heartland and western USA" is easier to understand, or is more pleasant to listen to, is a totally different matter.

[AsH]

+1

[dbneeley]

You've gotta be kidding!  If someone has no accent it basically means that you can't tell where they come from.  Some on here may disagree, but I was told that Russian is probably the most "accentless" major language because the whole country is taught the same way, with the same speech patterns, and has been for 70-80 (?) years.

Because we get force-fed so much TV from the USA, I can tell the difference between southern, north-east, California, etc.  No way could anyone from your country be described as having no accent.  Whether or not someone from the "heartland and western USA" is easier to understand, or is more pleasant to listen to, is a totally different matter.

Please, tell me the difference between accents in the American West coast--California, Oregon, or Washington, and the American Midwest--Ohio, Indiana, or Illinois. With a university degree in English and a fair amount of linguistics training and having lived in both areas, very often I can't tell that difference.

As for "no accent"--that would be an indication that all syllables are voiced in a consistent manner without dropping consonants, running syllables together, or similar things that are often found in various regional dialects. From another point of view, obviously everyone has some sort of accent--but some are far easier to be generally understood than others.

There is little doubt that many Aussies and Kiwis both have difficulty being understood by people for whom English is a second language who have not been widely exposed to either. Those same people would have problems with the more extreme U.S. and British accents as well--it is not to put down the dialects in your part of the world to simply point out that this is true. This is one reason that when an actor from your part of the world seeks work in Britain or the U.S., they work very hard to drop their native accent.

The biggest difficulty with people who acquire English as non-natives is that they are generally taught with either a relatively "vanilla" form of U.S. or British English.

I am less familiar with the Kiwi dialect than the Australian ones, simply because of less exposure. However, often an element with the Aussies that compounds the problem of comprehension is the large number of words that are regional in nature and not commonly found elsewhere. The majority of Aussies I have known seem wedded to these regionalisms and can be very confusing to follow at times even for native English speakers from other parts of the world.

When the post was made saying that the English spoken in your part of the world is the "worst" I took it to mean that in his opinion it is the most difficult to understand. I don't actually think that is true--some of the regional British accents are to me much more difficult, but it is likely the most difficult that particular gentleman is familiar with. I doubt he is all that familiar with the more extreme examples of the dialects from the New England area of the U.S. either.

David

[Anotherkiwi]

Thank you David for your articulate response, another reason why I so enjoy reading your posts...

Please, tell me the difference between accents in the American West coast--California, Oregon, or Washington, and the American Midwest--Ohio, Indiana, or Illinois. With a university degree in English and a fair amount of linguistics training and having lived in both areas, very often I can't tell that difference.

...but please don't put words into my posts that aren't there.  I never claimed to tell the difference between west coast and mid-west.  I'm quite happy to bow to your local knowledge on that point.

As for "no accent"--that would be an indication that all syllables are voiced in a consistent manner without dropping consonants, running syllables together, or similar things that are often found in various regional dialects. From another point of view, obviously everyone has some sort of accent--but some are far easier to be generally understood than others.

Exactly the point that I'm making, and that I think ManLooking was trying to make in his rather condescending way.  In case he had forgotten, US English has its roots in that little country called ENGLAND.

There is little doubt that many Aussies and Kiwis both have difficulty being understood by people for whom English is a second language who have not been widely exposed to either. Those same people would have problems with the more extreme U.S. and British accents as well--it is not to put down the dialects in your part of the world to simply point out that this is true.

Agree to differ on this one - I've never had any FSU person say that they could not understand my English.  I've been told by several Russians who've had contact with both that, in general terms, they find New Zealanders easier to understand, I think in part because our "dialect" in general is not as harsh or nasal as a lot of Australians (note for the Aussies on here: I said "a lot," not "all!").  In general terms though, it's pretty obvious that the only people who can tell New Zealanders and Australians apart (by accent) are New Zealanders and Australians!  Even immigrants who've lived here for many years still get confused.

This is one reason that when an actor from your part of the world seeks work in Britain or the U.S., they work very hard to drop their native accent.

I think that "drop" is a simplification - most are simply good enough at using different accents to be able to use one which is appropriate for the situation they're in, because they've usually performed roles in theatre, TV or films here which require those "foreign" (to us) accents.

The biggest difficulty with people who acquire English as non-natives is that they are generally taught with either a relatively "vanilla" form of U.S. or British English.

I am less familiar with the Kiwi dialect than the Australian ones, simply because of less exposure. However, often an element with the Aussies that compounds the problem of comprehension is the large number of words that are regional in nature and not commonly found elsewhere. The majority of Aussies I have known seem wedded to these regionalisms and can be very confusing to follow at times even for native English speakers from other parts of the world.

No argument there, although people learning English here, for example, will also be taught those regional variations which are essential for daily living.  Don't forget that a lot of what you consider "standard" appear to be "regionalisms" to us!

When the post was made saying that the English spoken in your part of the world is the "worst" I took it to mean that in his opinion it is the most difficult to understand. I don't actually think that is true--some of the regional British accents are to me much more difficult, but it is likely the most difficult that particular gentleman is familiar with. I doubt he is all that familiar with the more extreme examples of the dialects from the New England area of the U.S. either.

David

One of my best friends is a "Geordie" from Newcastle in north-east England.  I've known him since he started at my school over 40 years ago, and I still have problems understanding him.  It's pretty embarrassing to have to ask someone that you've known that long to repeat things or speak slower.  I sometimes think that it's easier to talk to an FSUW whose English level is about 3!

If I'm ever in Donetsk I shall make you my first call (before the taxi, the interpreter, the girl, the apartment manager... )

[SANDRO43]

This is one reason that when an actor from your part of the world seeks work in Britain or the U.S., they work very hard to drop their native accent.

Except for those playing 'villain/evil' roles - it always surprised me to hear them speak in a cultured British voice while the 'hero' almost sounded illiterate .

Christopher Lee (Sir Christopher Frank Carandini Lee)

[Shostakovich]

It always surprised me to hear them speak in a cultured British voice while the 'hero' almost sounded illiterate .

Hannibal Lechter comes to mind also, a role model for me, though we have some differences in culinary preference.

The riddle is solved by understanding that Hollywood needs to sell films.  One way to do that is to convince the average person that it is they who are the real heroes of the world.  People love to be validated, since, in fact most everyone is quite insecure, a fact that derives from a basic lack of sense about what life is for.  Great written or oral ability does not belong to the average people.  Orators and those with facility in the written word become politicians, teachers, priests and poets - the sort of people that control the gates that establish the social order.  Evil people, no doubt, who prevent Joe Schmoe from enjoying sexual congress with the likes of ... you name it, and thus must go on this international girl-quest to prove their worth.   

[dbneeley]

If I'm ever in Donetsk I shall make you my first call (before the taxi, the interpreter, the girl, the apartment manager... )

Thanks for the kind words!

You would be most welcome should you be in Donetsk--and a reason to come here is relatively easy should you notice some of the beautiful ladies on various websites from this area and especially if you realize that they get fewer Western suitors than those from most other FSU areas.

Regarding "standard English"--that is to some extent a matter of the two hugely influential universities in Britain at Oxford and Cambridge as well as the matter of the population of the U.S. and thus the sheer amount of printed material produced for that market. Between the two, there seems to be a virtual corner on the market of dictionaries, linguistic guides, and the like.

Obviously, it is true that the English in the U.S. was from Britain--and the New England dialects are actually in many cases far closer to the British English of several hundred years ago than are many of the present-day dialects in Britain itself, interestingly enough. There are also some remnants of older grammatical forms in some surprising places. For example, in the highlands of North Carolina there are some surviving Scots linguistic flourishes that are fascinating--as are the annual Highland Games still celebrated there last I heard, as this was an area settled by a sizable number of Scottish people in the early eighteenth century, if memory serves.

There are of course local terms for many things that are distinctly regionalisms, quite apart from terms that would be considered slang even in those areas. (In terms of slang, I can't help but think of an hilarious parody song called "99 Words for Boobs": http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/3b1e3750e2/99-words-for-boobs-from-amcc   That's a takeoff of an anti-war song called "99 Luftballoons" by the way.)

Anyway, I doubt there are many on the board who are quite as fascinated by this sort of linguistic issue as am I, so I'll stop now...
 

David

[SANDRO43]

Anyway, I doubt there are many on the board who are quite as fascinated by this sort of linguistic issue as am I, so I'll stop now...

Very few, witness the fact that the Language thread I opened back in 2007 has been dormant since the end of 2009, its last post being about ACCENTS : http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=6383.msg209391#msg209391.

[JR]

Russian is probably the most "accentless" major language because the whole country is taught the same way, with the same speech patterns, and has been for 70-80 (?) years.

Hehe, tell that to the Muscovite who looks down their nose at the "village" language of Siberia. My ex-wife (a Moscovite) had no problem distinguishing where someone was from in Russia within the first few sentences. I never knew her to be wrong.

It is quite easy to distinguish between a native Illini or somone from Ohio. California is considered an accentless state because of the high number of transients. A language melting pot so to speak. When I go to Texas people say I have a California accent, go figure....

[AsH]

I too have come across "village"in conversations she was describing a girl who speakes crudely being from the "village".

[Chicagoguy]

 

Have any of our posters had much contact with "Village people. Not the singers.
Friends, dates or even Internet ?

My wife says she was born in a small town but speaks very disparagingly of the people who live in villages. I have been in 2 villages and they are pretty primitive but I had little contact with the residents.

[ML]

Have any of our posters had much contact with "Village people. Not the singers.
Friends, dates or even Internet ?

My wife says she was born in a small town but speaks very disparagingly of the people who live in villages. I have been in 2 villages and they are pretty primitive but I had little contact with the residents.

One of my long-time female Ukrainian friends was born and raised in a village.  She and her parents are some of the most cultured and intelligent people I have ever met.  She went away to another 'not so large' town for university and then got job in large city.

But she still goes back to the village frequently to work in the family gardens.
I have been there with her and have had very high level discussions (in English) with her parents, aunts and uncles.

All of the disparagement of village people is just so much poo poo.

[JR]

All of the disparagement of village people is just so much poo poo.

Absolutely!!! But try telling that to Muscovite....

[Gator]

All of the disparagement of village people is just so much poo poo.

Is it disparagement, or just one's preference for Big City woman vs. small town girl?  In general, there are some differences between the two, just as there are in America, yet the essence of each is remarkably similar.

In any event, Big City RW are sometimes laughable with regard to the difference between what they think they know and what they actually do know.