Living in an Earthquake Zone...

[GoodOlBoy]

So where is a perfect garden spot of the world?

IMHO, (besides the GoodOl' USA )......Czech Republic.

GOB

[Gator]

GOB,

Czech Republic is fantastic for women, beer, scenery.  However, one can not play golf in its winter, and I doubt it has a Big John's Alabama BBQ.   

[Gator]

People talk about man's effect on nature.  How about nature's effect on man?!

Worrying about or scared of what you can't control is wasted energy and thought IMO

Exactly.  SJ's point is that you can take safeguards.  If you drive a car, you wear a seatbelt.   If you reside near a subduction zone, you do not live in an older, tall building if it has not not been seismically retrofitted.   

One of my business partners, a chemical engineer, was in his tall hotel in the 1989  San Francisco 6.9 quake.  He and his wife fell to their knees and kissed each other goodbye.  He had never held civil engineering in high regard.  His opinion changed after that.

[GoodOlBoy]

.... I doubt it has a Big John's Alabama BBQ.

Sorry for the  SJ.

Gator, I hope you are joking?

If you are referring to that place a few blocks from Bush Gardens (Tampa Bay) I can only say two things: 

Marina and I stopped there one time when we were over in your neck of the woods at Bush Gardens (great park ) and that was one of the most horrible tasting barbecue dinners that either one of us has ever eaten.

I don't consider Sonny's Barbecue to be that great (compared to N.C. barbecue), BUT...It is 10 times better than "Big Johns".

GOB

[Faux Pas]

People talk about man's effect on nature.  How about nature's effect on man?!

Exactly.  SJ's point is that you can take safeguards.  If you drive a car, you wear a seatbelt.   If you reside near a subduction zone, you do not live in an older, tall building if it has not not been seismically retrofitted.   

One of my business partners, a chemical engineer, was in his tall hotel in the 1989  San Francisco 6.9 quake.  He and his wife fell to their knees and kissed each other goodbye.  He had never held civil engineering in high regard.  His opinion changed after that.

So do you don a helmet and kevlar vest when you walk outside in South Florida in case there is a sniper's bullet coming your way? A sniper's bullet is certainly a possibility but, highly improbable. This is my point. Logically, if you were in Afghanistan you (or I) might wish to recalculate.  I weigh these decisions logically to satisfy my logic and standard/quality of life. Norway has a volcano that could erupt and cover 2 thirds of the country in molten lava. It's possible but, improbable. If Norway was the particular way of life I choose, the threat of a volcano wouldn't stop me either. *jus saying*

[JR]

Take reasonable precautions based upon the likely or foreseen circumstances and then quit worrying. Know what you should do before you need to do it.

[Gator]

GOB,

Same place.  If you like North carolina BBQ, you like vinegar in your sauce.  Big John cooks in Alabama style.   Evidently you did not have his ribs, they are the best.  

I took my Cossack woman there, and she loved it.  So much so that  on her next trip when I asked her where she wanted to have lunch, she said in complete seriousness that she wanted some nigra food.  When I finally stopped laughing, I explained all (this has been discussed repeatedly in other threads).  My ex-wife also loved his ribs.  

[GQBlues]

I hope the very best for Japan. I pray they recover from this soon. It is also very admirable for this country/society how after such a catastrophic event it didn't resolve into a social abyss that usually takes place in other places. You don't see anyone 'looting' like they do, unfortunately, here in the US. It is in these times you can easily see the differences in people's ethnics, cultures and its respective moral principles.

It isn't so much the actual earthquake that troubles me in Los Angeles, like the LA riots, it will be what folks living here will undoubtedly be prone to do after...

(if they still build that brainless high-speed train in California despite the recent events in Japan, you have to know this silliness is nothing more than paybacks for special interest's contributions for the '08 elections)

USGS have an incredible website that monitors global seismic activities...recordartion of last earthquakes in every country and even offers an animation for the most active region of the world.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eqarchives/last_event/world/

[Jumper]

SJ-
You are over estimating the time frame of natural disasters in ones lifetime in many areas.
50 years?
As example the New Madrid fault is on far more a thousand year cycle as far as *major* event..

now is it probable Japan will have another in 50 years?
if so, is it even remotely realistic that all Japanese relocate?

You mention a *stable* northern Europe ,yet ignore the huge north /mid atlantic fault that is extremely active  in the Norwegian ,and  Barents  sea, with quakes up to 6 just a year ago! the possibility of Norway having  a quake or tsunami is certainly likely in the future.
A quake  in the 5 to 6 range is actually expected by NORSAR in the next 10 years.
It certainly not immune to them?

http://goscandinavia.about.com/b/2007/01/23/earthquake-in-norway.htm

still it is considered low to intermediate in earthquake activity,and odds of getting something  in the 8 scale are quite low

In ones lifetime , isn't it more likely to be shrouded or endangered by a world war.. or other
major  conflicts ,than  a natural disaster?
Certainly i find the possibilty more likely if  i lived in most of Europe, than my fears of the New Madrid Fault in the midwest effecting me.
In fact i find the odds of a true civil war in the USA far more likely in my lifetime ,
or in 50 years , than the New Madrid doing something major.

[tfcrew]

 
Damage to their nuclear plants have raised great concern in Japan.
A look at the US facilities and proximity to sensitive faults...

 

Map of the United States Showing Locations of Operating Nuclear Power Reactors

http://www.nrc.gov/info-finder/reactor/

There are about a hundred...wow!

There will be more earthquakes. Regarding the New Madrid fault...it wouldn't take much more than 5.5 to cause serious damage in the area.

The biggest quake since 1811-1812 was a 6.6-magnitude quake on October 31, 1895, with an epicenter at Charleston, Missouri. The quake damaged virtually all buildings in Charleston, creating sand volcanoes by the city, cracked a pier on the Cairo Rail Bridge and toppled chimneys in St. Louis, Missouri, Memphis, Tennessee, Gadsden, Alabama and Evansville, Indiana.[14]

The next biggest quake was a 5.4-magnitude quake (although it was reported as a 5.5 at the time) on November 9, 1968, near Dale, Illinois. The quake damaged the civic building at Henderson, Kentucky and was felt in 23 states. People in Boston said their building swayed. It is the biggest recorded quake with an epicenter in Illinois in that state's recorded history.[15]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Madrid_Seismic_Zone

[Ade]

Norway has a volcano that could erupt and cover 2 thirds of the country in molten lava.

Uh, and where did you pick up this little non-fact? 

[Ade]

SJ-
You are over estimating the time frame of natural disasters in ones lifetime in many areas.
50 years?
As example the New Madrid fault is on far more a thousand year cycle as far as *major* event..

now is it probable Japan will have another in 50 years?
if so, is it even remotely realistic that all Japanese relocate?

Nope and that was never the point of my post.

I was interested if any people living on major faults and/or places likely to suffer some other major natural catastrophe ever thought about it and if they considered moving elsewhere.

It's of course not practical or possible for a great deal of people to move but there are a hell of a lot of other, highly mobile types on this here forum that have many more options as to where they live, myself included. I took a concious decision to move to Norway (rather than just let my work/chance dictate where I settled) and that decision was based on various criteria - admittedly the lack of earthquakes/tsunami didn't factor in but if I'd been considering the US, then yes, they would have I'm positive.

It seems to me that many people have a head in the sand approach to it as a coping mechanism. A colleague of mine that has lived in these areas in the US stated as much too.

You mention a *stable* northern Europe ,yet ignore the huge north /mid atlantic fault that is extremely active  in the Norwegian ,and  Barents  sea, with quakes up to 6 just a year ago! the possibility of Norway having  a quake or tsunami is certainly likely in the future.
A quake  in the 5 to 6 range is actually expected by NORSAR in the next 10 years.
It certainly not immune to them?

http://goscandinavia.about.com/b/2007/01/23/earthquake-in-norway.htm

still it is considered low to intermediate in earthquake activity,and odds of getting something  in the 8 scale are quite low

In ones lifetime , isn't it more likely to be shrouded or endangered by a world war.. or other
major  conflicts ,than  a natural disaster?
Certainly i find the possibilty more likely if  i lived in most of Europe, than my fears of the New Madrid Fault in the midwest effecting me.
In fact i find the odds of a true civil war in the USA far more likely in my lifetime ,
or in 50 years , than the New Madrid doing something major.

From what I know, the seismic activity in North Western Europe area is orders of magnitude less than the US hot spots.

[Daveman]

Some very interesting before/after shots of the Japanese quake and tsunami... just click on the photos to move the slider (rather than trying to drag the slider itself). Pretty amazing stuff:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/03/13/world/asia/satellite-photos-japan-before-and-after-tsunami.html

[Faux Pas]

Uh, and where did you pick up this little non-fact? 

Opps! http://www.jan-mayen.no/

[Ade]

Opps! http://www.jan-mayen.no/

Uh, yeah, but where did you see that this volcano, and I quote, "could erupt and cover 2 thirds of the country in molten lava"? You don't seem to understand that the volcano in question is sitting on an island 950km west of Norway proper and it's a certain impossibility for it to cover any of mainland Norway in anything at all let alone molten lava.

[Faux Pas]

Uh, yeah, but where did you see that this volcano, and I quote, "could erupt and cover 2 thirds of the country in molten lava."? You don't seem to understand that the volcano in question is sitting on an island 950km west of Norway proper and it's a certain impossibility for it to cover any of mainland Norway in anything at all let alone molten lava.

Note I stated "could" and I added that for dramatic effect. My point which you continually miss is, even in Norway you are not immune from natural disasters. No where on the planet is anyone immune. Not to even mention man-made disasters. You are more susceptible to volcanoes, I am more susceptible to earthquakes. The chances of either on killing either of us are quite remote. Possible but a slight chance nonetheless.

It's not your personal preference, I get that. But there's no need in disparaging those who live someplace other than your beloved Norway that may be prone to a bevy of natural disasters. No place on earth is safe

[Jumper]

From what I know, the seismic activity in North Western Europe area is orders of magnitude less than the US hot spots.

Did you look into it ?
Yes Norway  compared only to the true hot spots, ie: California is likely accurate.

 Yet, Norway in particular is  the hottest spot for Northern Europe,
you have to admit in this context, it's  a bit amusing,, that  you did pick the most likely country in Northern Europe to have a major event , even if the odds are remote.  

i posted a link of one ,mid country in 2007,
than there was a 5 or 6 magnitude  offshore in 2010 or 2009?
it's not like its a completely  unusual event there, read up on the NARSOR site..
just how frequent does it need to be to show concern?
(as that's more and larger than in my area)  


 I do see your point if you're mobile , then why move to a believed earthquake prone zone..
and Norway is of low risk.

but if you are being completely rational in this approach and look at a seismic map..
comparing your neighboring countries?Are they thinking you have your head in the sand?





SJ, just playing devils advocate..
 you remind me of comedian sam kineson's routine of sending luggage to ethiopia..
( there's no food there! don't send them food ,send them luggage!)

[Ade]

Note I stated "could" and I added that for dramatic effect.

Dramatic? You mean silly. No dramatic effect here; when I said an impossibility, I actually meant, "impossible". There is no way that particular volcano or any existing volcano could cover even a fraction of mainland Norway let alone 2 thirds of the country.

Whatever, dream on if you think that North Western Europe has anywhere near the natural disaster risk of the (many) US hot spots.

Seriously, I don't know why I bother.

But there's no need in disparaging those who live someplace other than your beloved Norway that may be prone to a bevy of natural disasters. No place on earth is safe

Ah, here we go, that American defensiveness coming to the fore again.  Damn funny that.

[SFandEE]

I like Czech Republic too--tough language for me though.  I was in Brazil during the Indonesian earthquake/Thai tsunami and Brazilians were commenting they don't have issues with natural disasters there.  So maybe that is a garden of eden as far as avoiding natural disasters.  National disasters--they still have a few.  Winters are beautiful there too by the way.

[Faux Pas]

Dramatic? You mean silly. No dramatic effect here; when I said an impossibility, I actually meant, "impossible". There is no way that particular volcano or any existing volcano could cover even a fraction of mainland Norway let alone 2 thirds of the country.

But it could conceivably kill you making you a victim of a NATURAL DISASTER  in uber safe Western/Northern Europe? Silly, dramatic, call it what you will. You got the point

Whatever, dream on if you think that North Western Europe has anywhere near the natural disaster risk of the (many) US hot spots.

Seriously, I don't know why I bother.

Ah, here we go, that American defensiveness coming to the fore again.   Damn funny that.

Who mentioned U.S. hotspots and American defensiveness? Must be some Freudian slip on your part.   I don't know why you bother either SJ. You opened the thread asking what I perceived an honest question and I gave you an honest reply. Then, in typical SJ fashion you backhandedly insult anyone who doesn't think likewise to you. You do seem to have some self confidence issues. I'm sure Norway is a wonderful place and I don't take any kind of pleasure in informing you that it is just as susceptible to natural disasters as any where else on the planet. I didn't make that shat up. It is just the way it is.

No, but I wouldn't have moved here if it were earthquake prone - or tornado  prone for that matter.

There are just too many other places in the world which are just as nice to live without those extra major risks to me and my family that I can't control.

Gee SJ, with the new volcanic and earthquake info you've found on RWD, where will you move now?  

We're not talking of daily risk that can be managed to a great extent, we are talking of places that will see a major earthquake most likely in my lifetime. Why on earth would someone to choose to live in a place like that if they have the choice to live elsewhere? My only guess is that like any other human endeavour, people have a way of ignoring the inevitable or seeing what they want to see...

I guess you are not only highly intelligent but a seer of the future too. Even those who live with earthquake prone areas such as dogspot and experience earthquakes on a regular basis, the odds are extremely low that they will die as a result of one. Just slightly worse than yours. To live your life or choosing where to live because of dangers you can't control on this scale is the optimum paranoia. It doesn't make you smarter or more enlightened than those who don't. I'll gladly take my odds while enjoying warm weather and sunshine 10 months of the year  

[GoodOlBoy]

You guy's on the "West Coast" of the GoodOl' USA may want to check this place out:

http://www.nukepills.com/

Seriously, don't wait for Uncle Sam (Obama) to issue them to you and your family.

GOB

PS.......The winds of change are a blowin' (your way).

[tfcrew]

WASHINGTON -- Major suppliers of pills that provide protection from radiation say they're out of stock due to panic buying, even though experts say that the Japanese nuclear catastrophe poses no health threat to Americans.

 http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/03/15/2116907/japans-nuclear-crisis-prompts.html

[GQBlues]

You guy's on the "West Coast" of the GoodOl' USA may want to check this place out:

http://www.nukepills.com/

Seriously, don't wait for Uncle Sam (Obama) to issue them to you and your family.

GOB

PS.......The winds of change are a blowin' (your way).

Thanks for the heads-up there, GOB. I gather the jet stream will likely hit no further south than San Francisco. Spring and summer being upon us will even push that puppy further north.

I remember reading about those WWII bombs the Japs loaded on their weather balloons as their version of inter-continental bombing crusade against the US. They actually found some of those bombs in Idaho and Montana just recently, too.

[Ade]

But it could conceivably kill you making you a victim of a NATURAL DISASTER  in uber safe Western/Northern Europe? Silly, dramatic, call it what you will. You got the point

Please explain how a barely active volcano 950km away - across an ocean no less - could kill me. Take into account here that the town I live in is quite a way from the coast and a damn sight more than a few meters above sea level. I'll concede that as almost nothing is impossible, it could happen but I'm guessing that the probability of you getting pregnant is higher.

Who mentioned U.S. hotspots and American defensiveness? Must be some Freudian slip on your part.   I don't know why you bother either SJ. You opened the thread asking what I perceived an honest question and I gave you an honest reply. Then, in typical SJ fashion you backhandedly insult anyone who doesn't think likewise to you.

If you go back and ready your first reply to me you said, and I paraphrase here, "it's rare that people take into account earthquakes when they choose to live somewhere there and to do so would be paranoid" and "if it's your time to go, it's your time to go and there's nothing you can do about it".

And you say I insulted you by questioning the "it's fate and there's nothing you can do about it" mentality? Or is it that I think it's bizarre that people choose to live in potentially devastating earthquake prone areas when they have a choice to live elsewhere? To you these are insults?

Whereas indirectly being called "paranoid" isn't an insult, right?

You do seem to have some self confidence issues.

Perhaps you should get out that dictionary of yours and look up the definition of that.

I'm sure Norway is a wonderful place and I don't take any kind of pleasure in informing you that it is just as susceptible to natural disasters as any where else on the planet. I didn't make that shat up. It is just the way it is.

Actually no, it may surprise you to learn that some places really are are more susceptible than others.

Gee SJ, with the new volcanic and earthquake info you've found on RWD, where will you move now?  

Yeah, right. 

I guess you are not only highly intelligent but a seer of the future too. Even those who live with earthquake prone areas such as dogspot and experience earthquakes on a regular basis, the odds are extremely low that they will die as a result of one. Just slightly worse than yours. To live your life or choosing where to live because of dangers you can't control on this scale is the optimum paranoia. It doesn't make you smarter or more enlightened than those who don't. I'll gladly take my odds while enjoying warm weather and sunshine 10 months of the year  

Ah, there you go with the insults again. 

The thing that Dogspot showed in his reply is that he'd used his brain, considered his options and weighed the risk and the benefits and decided that for him the benefits outweighed the risk. On the other hand, your mindless, "if it's your time to go there's nothing you can do about it" quip was quite the opposite.

[GoodOlBoy]

Thanks for the heads-up there, GOB.

Marina and I still have our "tabs" from when we lived down in South Florida just a few miles from the Turkey Point power plant and Homestead Motor Speedway (NASCAR and Indy racing. )

http://www.fpl.com/environment/nuclear/about_turkey_point.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_Point_Nuclear_Generating_Station

One of the nuclear welders at Turkey Point was a fishing buddy of mine (I say was, because later his wife had some cruel things to say about Marina after her arrival here in the GoodOl' USA ).

Anyway, he gave me a bunch of those Potassium Iodine Tabs because we lived within the "danger" zone.

I never really felt like we were in any "danger". Heck, I figured if Turkey Point could survive a direct hit by Hurricane Andrew (Cat 5, 175mph winds) and its storm surge, it could probably handle just about any kind of natural disaster coming our way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Andrew

About every month we would have "tests" out of the public warning system. When I first moved down there it was a little alarming when the sirens would go off and then you would hear over the neighborhood loud speakers, "This is only a test!".

About a week or so after Marina's arrival, the "siren/test" went off. She was quite startled and started yelling, "What is it, what is it Rick?" I calmly tried to explain everything to her, I even put her in the car and drove out to the plant to show her where it was.

I have to admit, I don't think Marina misses any of that cr*p now that we are living up here in Sunny Isles Beach.

Funny thing my fishing buddy use to say: "When you hear the warning sirens go off Rick (for real), take your Iodine Tabs and bend over and kiss your ass goodbye!".

GOB

PS....I always wondered what would happen to the poor bastards who are allergic to Iodine? :noidea: