Advice for The Natural

[SANDRO43]

But I suppose that theme has also been discussed at one time or another.

Here's a thread from 3 years ago : http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=6604.msg120277#msg120277.

[The Natural]

I kinda suspected you guys had at least touched upon the subject. I was right, hehe.

But the post in your link was short and came down to scents like perfume, somebodys need to assure he's showering a lot and a rather unrealistic and ill-conceived wish from a guy having a gal that smells...nothing.

That's not what I, and I believe Aloe, means however. But a topic like this has the great potential to end up in all kinds of different ways.

Even a freshly showered person has a... let's call it flavour, a scent emitting from the skin and this is far from being unclean or smelling of old sweat or anything like that. I believe there are different flavours of scent like this and some of the opposite sex is attracted to that, some not. It has nothing to do with hygiene. I remember my Spanish ex-wife saying to me that she liked the smell of my forearms. At that time that surprised me because that was not something I've ever considered. But that was well over 20 years ago when I was (real) young and stupid.

I don't think I want to go much further than this only to say that I have noticed a great difference in scent of women also in more strategic places.

[SANDRO43]

But the post in your link was short and came down to scents like perfume, somebodys need to assure he's showering a lot and a rather unrealistic and ill-conceived wish from a guy having a gal that smells...nothing.That's not what I, and I believe Aloe, means however.

Well, here's a fresh new one on the Importance of Scent: http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=13268.

Even a freshly showered person has a... let's call it flavour, a scent emitting from the skin

The flavour/scent of a freshly showered person is bound to be mostly that of the soap/foam/shampoo/whatever used while showering . Many years ago one could spot a working-class person from the strong scent of laundry soap used in his/her humble family's ablutions .

[The Natural]

Oh come on Sandro43, now you're just being like my big brother; one slip of the tongue or a statement left for interpretation, and he's all over me 

Besides, in my own case, I only use soap made of natural oil and with no perfume. It's made locally even. I don't use cologne or anything toxic like that. Perhaps on very special occasions but then never directly on the skin.

I prefer Natural. Thought you knew that by now man 

[SANDRO43]

Oh come on Sandro43, now you're just being like my big brother; one slip of the tongue or a statement left for interpretation, and he's all over me

Sorry Junior, I didn't know you were hypersensitive .

Besides, in my own case, I only use soap made of natural oil and with no perfume. It's made locally even. I don't use cologne or anything toxic like that. Perhaps on very special occasions but then never directly on the skin. I prefer Natural. Thought you knew that by now man

How could I know that, I didn't have many chances of smelling you - not that I intend to, anyway .

As for cologne being toxic, as a former chemist I have some doubts - unless you drink it, that is:

In a base of dilute ethanol (70-90%), Eau de Cologne contains a mixture of citrus oils including oils of lemon, orange, tangerine, bergamot, lime, grapefruit and neroli. It can also contain oils of lavender, rosemary, thyme, petitgrain (orange leaf), and jasmine.

The original Eau de Cologne is a spirit-citrus perfume launched in Cologne in 1709 by Giovanni Maria Farina (1685–1766), an Italian perfume maker from Santa Maria Maggiore, Val Vigezzo, Italy. In 1708, Farina wrote to his brother Jean Baptiste: "I have found a fragrance that reminds me of an Italian spring morning, of mountain daffodils and orange blossoms after the rain". He named his fragrance Eau de Cologne, in honour of his new hometown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eau_de_Cologne

[Speedbump]

Congratulations on the successful Skype. I agree that Skype is an essential tool in this process.

I wish you well in your search and it appears you are off to a very strong start.

[The Natural]

Sorry Junior, I didn't know you were hypersensitive .

I'm not, I was kidding around. It was a joke.

[The Natural]

Congratulations on the successful Skype. I agree that Skype is an essential tool in this process.

I wish you well in your search and it appears you are off to a very strong start.

Thanks a lot man. Are you too looking, what's happening?

[Muzh]

Sandro, my German language teacher told me (years, no, eons ago) the same as to where the first cologne was synthesized. However, she said that the first cologne sold was named "1211" or Zweizenelf.

[Faux Pas]

If I may give some advise to a newbie who is writing e-mails to women they find interesting, then I would say take the next step fairly quickly and go on Skype. Earlier I asked “my” woman if she would like to meet me and she answered that we should talk live on Skype first, to see if we connect. When you talk live you can get to know each other on a new level and if there is chemistry, you can agree to meet in real life which is step 3 and the most important of course.

Excellent!

Congrats on your successful Skype session. You can understand now why many were earlier suggesting to move on quickly into skype and away from the agency/website/email. It is not the cure all and it is not a "real" meeting but it does give you more insight and a better general idea of the pretty face behind the email. At this point you are only Skype buddies and it may or may not develop into a next step of a personal meeting but, then again it may.

When I met my wife for the first time we had never Skyped. In fact we never Skyped until after our second face to face. Skype wasn't quite as widespread then as now but, it has certainly been helpful in her keeping in contact with the family in Russia. I said that to say this; you don't "need" Skype but, it is certainly helpful in giving some insight of each other and can aid in escalating or dismissing that person you thought you knew from emails. It is an excellent tool in this particular pursuit. Not that you are in any kind of hurry but, why waste time? Emails are as slow now as snail mail was in 10 years ago. Skype is immediate, get on and meet the lady.

[The Natural]

Faux Pas,

Yes, it is definetely a big step up from just e-mailing. We talked again this morning and have agreed to talk again tomorrow morning and a natural consequence of our Skype conversations are that we no longer write e-mails, except for sending photos. That suit me just fine because I'm starting to tire writing e-mails and I've just started!

Talking live makes one find out things one would not otherwise have just by writing. The natural flow of conversation leads to information about both of us, that we probably in many cases would not have thought about just sitting alone writing.

Today she asked me if I always smile som much as I did when we talked. A thing like that cannot be observed via e-mail obviously. By the way, she smile and laugh too when we talk. Wonderful!

[SANDRO43]

Sandro, my German language teacher told me (years, no, eons ago) the same as to where the first cologne was synthesized. However, she said that the first cologne sold was named "1211" or Zweizenelf.

Shouldn't that be Zwölfelf ? Anyway, Farina's creation was later known also as 1811 (Achtzehnelf), the date on the poster/flyer depicted earlier (1er Janvier 1811).

Another number was 4711 (Siebenundvierzigelf):

At the beginning of the 18th century, Italian expatriate Johann Maria Farina (1685-1766) created a new fragrance and named it Eau de Cologne (Water from Cologne), after his new residence, Cologne. In the course of the 18th century the fragrance became increasingly popular. Eventually, Cologne merchant Wilhelm Mülhens secured the rights to the name Farina from a Farina with no connection to the Farina family who produced the original Eau de Cologne. However, Mülhens needed the name Farina in order to market his version of the fragrance successfully, and, because of the success of Farina's original Eau de Cologne, the name Farina had become inseparable with the fragrance. Under contract, Mülhens opened a small factory at Cologne's Klöckergasse and began manufacturing his own version of the fragrance. In later years, and under pressure from court battles with the Farinas who produced the original Eau de Cologne, his grandson Ferdinand Mülhens chose a new name for the firm and their product. He chose the number 4711, a number that the city of Cologne had assigned to Wilhelm Mülhens' future residence on the eve of the French Revolution. In 1994, the Mülhens family sold their company to German Wella corporation. Today, original Eau de Cologne (German: Kölnisch Wasser) still is produced in Cologne by both the Farina family (Farina gegenüber since 1709), currently in the eighth generation, and by Mäurer & Wirtz, who took over from Procter & Gamble (who had in turn acquired Wella in 2003) in 2006.

Since 1806, Farina's Cologne is produced also by the French parfumier Roger & Gallet:

Farina's Kölnisch Wasser is probably the oldest (302 years ) perfume still on the market.

[Faux Pas]

Faux Pas,

Yes, it is definetely a big step up from just e-mailing. We talked again this morning and have agreed to talk again tomorrow morning and a natural consequence of our Skype conversations are that we no longer write e-mails, except for sending photos. That suit me just fine because I'm starting to tire writing e-mails and I've just started!

Talking live makes one find out things one would not otherwise have just by writing. The natural flow of conversation leads to information about both of us, that we probably in many cases would not have thought about just sitting alone writing.

Today she asked me if I always smile som much as I did when we talked. A thing like that cannot be observed via e-mail obviously. By the way, she smile and laugh too when we talk. Wonderful!

Get more acquainted with Skype. You and send photos and files directly through it as well

[Muzh]

Shouldn't that be Zwölfelf ? Anyway, Farina's creation was later known also as 1811 (Achtzehnelf), the date on the poster/flyer depicted earlier (1er Janvier 1811).

She pronounce 12 as Zweizen and that's what she taught us. Maybe a different German dialect?

Zwiezen, dreizen, furzen, etc.

Another number was 4711 (Siebenundvierzigelf):

You are absolutely correct. I recognized the photo. You, sir, are definitely a source.  

[SANDRO43]

She pronounce 12 as Zweizen and that's what she taught us. Maybe a different German dialect?

Swiss German, maybe ?

Zwiezen, dreizen, furzen, etc.

12. Zwie-zen: the zwie- prefix is the equivalent of English bi-, as in Zwieback (twice-cooked):

13. Dreizen (dreizehn): correct.
14. Furzen: should be vierzehn, maybe she was pulling your leg: furzen = to fart .

[Muzh]

Swiss German, maybe ? 12. Zwie-zen: the zwie- prefix is the equivalent of English bi-, as in Zwieback (twice-cooked):

13. Dreizen (dreizehn): correct.
14. Furzen: should be vierzehn, maybe she was pulling your leg: furzen = to fart .

Boy, that explain the smell!!

How the hell should I know? 

[The Natural]

The woman from the Crimea and I had agreed to talk again on Skype this morning. So I sat down and waited for her call, but it didn't come. I saw she was online, also on the EM site and could not understand why she didn't call. To top it off, I could send but not receive e-mails. I sent her an e-mail telling her I was ready. I really had a hard time imagining she had dumped me. She didn't seem to be that type of person and we had such good conversations the first two times. So time went by and I knew she had to be at work at noon. What was wrong?

Only too late to reach her, I realized that although I was online with the Skype, it was turned on "Away" from yesterday. Then I got an sms from her and we rescheduled a new conversation for the evening.

She got online and got through to me this time. I apologized, explained and said I made this mistake. She said no problem and was forgiving and understanding, fortunately.

The more we talk, the more I realize how superior live video conversations is to just e-mails. We learn about each other at a much higher level than the old fashioned way.

The two hours this evening went by so amazingly quickly, same with the other times. She feel the same way. We talked about so many things, like our families, our lives, currency and ATM machines (she couldn't understand why someone warned about using them), I showed her the view out my window where she could see the shop acrross the road and was surprised to see snow still on the ground. I also got to say hello to her 17-year old niese. She was shy but came in front of the camera for a second to say "How are you". She was getting ready to go out with some friends but couldn't decide what to wear and I could hear them discussing that a little 

We also discussed this dating-site thing. She said people at work didn't understand why she had a profile there. I asked her if she had many contacts from her add which she affirmed. I told her about this site and what is often said here about men who write and write but never visit. She said she absolutely agrees on that, it's her experience too. Not only that, but they are too shy or whatever to even talk on Skype! Imagine that! This woman is amazing on so many levels that guys getting in touch with her are fools to procrastinate.

The next step is of course, a visit. I have really decided quite some days ago that I want to go to the Crimea. There are some other women too that have showned interest. I have however focused only on Ukraine because I won't go to any other country now. Some of the others I have written a few e-mails to, just to see if it's something worth pursuing. One writes back very infrequently and one feature that repeats itself are rather lenghty letters telling about something that seems irrelevant at this point AND the not answering specific questions or asking me personal questions. We will see if any of them show some interest to me, but so far there's a world apart from any of them to the woman from the Crimea.

[The Natural]

This is indeed a dynamic process! I continue talking with the woman from the Crimea, but keep it on a "professional" level, meaning that I don't engage in talk like "I love you" or things like that. We talk and exchange viewpoints and information about each other.
Not much is happening on EM. I get some e-mails now and then, but nothing that really get my attention. On the other hand, I have narrowed it down pretty much as I have absolute demands like she must manage the English language well and be available for Skype video conversations if the initial letters show promise. This is also a way to confirm for me that she is a real person behind the e-mails.
As we have discussed some here before, I am not really the WMVM type. I don't know how guys manage to do this, but I am now in such a situation, in a small way. Le'ts call it WMV2.

Three days ago a 30-year old girl from Bulgaria contacted me on myspace. I was a bit skeptical weather such a young woman with great looks would want to know me who’s quite a few years older. But I answered and we exchanged messages on myspace a few times before moving to Skype. She didn’t have a camera but we spent many hours on messages. I told her about my thoughts on talking live and the next day she had bought a camera and we talked live. We connect great and she want me to come visit her.

So, what I now would like to do is to go to Bulgaria in mid-June and meet with the girl for one week. She will meet me at the airport and help me find a reasonable hotel room. Then I will fly from Sofia to Kiev. The girl from the Crimea had said that she can meet me there and we can take the train down to the Crimea. I would like to stay with her for two weeks, go back the same way and spend the last week with the girl from Bulgaria. The plane goes direct from Oslo to Bulgaria and it’s a tourist flight and quite reasonably priced.

My “plan” is alright for the Bulgarian girl, but I needed the opinion of the girl from the Crimea too. Because she was busy today, we hadn’t scheduled a conversation until tomorrow. So I wrote to her and outlined my idea and asked her about it. She then made a short video-call and wanted to know a little about what I mentioned in the e-mail. She wanted to know why I was stopping in Bulgaria, which is reasonable. As I don’t tell lies or hide information, I told her that I was meeting a girl there. I told her I asked her about our plans to meet in Kiev, to make sure it’s OK for her, because  I want to be honest and truthful. She said she had to think about it first.

So guys and gals, any input on this situation? My thoughts is that I really like both women but cannot know for sure until we meet and spend some time together.  Did I scare the Crimean away, I now wonder.

[Ade]

I'm all for telling the truth, always and without reservation. But there will be a problem if you suggest this type of VM approach with a woman that is inherently of the VO mindset. She won't like it at all. Even if you've kept your conversations platonic there still may be unsaid expectations with some people that doesn't fit with you going off and visiting several women. I really do respect you for your honesty though.

FWIW, I'm 45 almost 46 and my wife is almost 33. We started communicating when she was 29.

[Muzh]

FWIW, I'm 45 almost 46 and my wife is almost 33. We started communicating when she was 29.

SJ, I was your age and my wife was your wife's age when we married 10 (almost 11) years ago.

[The Natural]

I'm all for telling the truth, always and without reservation. But there will be a problem if you suggest this type of VM approach with a woman that is inherently of the VO mindset. She won't like it at all. Even if you've kept your conversations platonic there is still may be unsaid expectations with some people that doesn't fir with you going off and visiting several women.

Yes, you put it well there SJ. It is a delicate situation.

FWIW, I'm 45 almost 46 and my wife is almost 33. We started communicating when she was 29.

So you're telling me there's a chance!

[GoodOlBoy]

She said she had to think about it first.

You probably just lost this one. :noidea:

GOB

[Yuri-the-fat]

So, what I now would like to do is to go to Bulgaria in mid-June and meet with the girl for one week. She will meet me at the airport and help me find a reasonable hotel room. Then I will fly from Sofia to Kiev. The girl from the Crimea had said that she can meet me there and we can take the train down to the Crimea. I would like to stay with her for two weeks, go back the same way and spend the last week with the girl from Bulgaria. The plane goes direct from Oslo to Bulgaria and it’s a tourist flight and quite reasonably priced.

If you like the Ukrainian girl better, you'll still go to the Bulgarian afterwards?

Did I scare the Crimean away, I now wonder.

She will probably agree to your terms, but she won't be as open, caring and affectionate with you as we would be if you were flying to her only.

[The Natural]

If you like the Ukrainian girl better, you'll still go to the Bulgarian afterwards?

No, then I would stay an extra week with her, if all works out between us.

[Faux Pas]

Roy

Here my friend is where you "live by the sword, you die by the sword". The WMVF or WMVM all eventually will hit a wall. Most guys in this endeavor seem to based on the advice they receive in this and other forums make a determination of what they are, WMVM or WOVO. There really is no right or wrong answer but, what are you comfortable doing and where you draw the line at the whole truth, the half truth or anything but the truth.

When you make a visit to a woman you have been chatting up and swapping emails with, is she within her bounds to expect that you are only visiting her? (no need to answer out loud, just to yourself). Many women and more specifically, some of the more moralistic and ethical women will be turned off with the idea that they are just another stop on your itinerary of sex tourism. Right, wrong or indifferent that is the distinction they'll make quite often.

How would you perceive it if after a month of Skyping with Miss Crimea,  she then pronounced she was coming to Norway to visit you. You were thrilled with the idea and a week later she told you she was dropping off in England for a week to hang out with another Chap before she gets to Norway, how would you feel? (no need to answer).

I can respect your honesty but, with a WMVM it may not be the best policy. The best policy maybe to be honest with yourself. What if you hit it off tremendously with both women. What then? It's time for game playing. In such situations you might find yourself being played rather than playing.

It's a slippery slope you are on. If you were being totally honest with yourself and the 2 women in question would you have even answered the lady from Bulgaria? Was the Crimea woman interest waning already? Maybe you should seek the need for your honesty before the cause or effect?

IMO, the Crimea lady is history. If she does meet you it will likely be a cold reception. Just something to think about.