Re: Why FSUW Look Abroad

[Simoni]

DO NOT even begin to think, if she in fact married you and move to the US, that she's doing this specifically for you. LOL, NO. She always planned on doing it and you simply became the wanton person that enabled that plan. Period. Women in marriage agencies aren't 'doing it for anyone' (moving to another country) except themselves when they decided to make themselves available on the international marriage scene.

What an idiotic and incorrect statement.   I don't know the posters experience that led him to attack all the international marriages that stemmed from dating or marriage agencies, but I can say from my experiences that he is dead wrong to generalize his experiences to others.


My wife signed up with a dating/marriage agency because a friend of hers met a great man at an agency and has a wonderful international marriage.  Thank God she did; otherwise, we would never have met.  So NO, I am not a mule, GQ!  She was looking for love and found it. Without love, she would never have entered into an International marriage.  But yeah, this is just one example.


I can name half a dozen other couples who met through dating/marriage agencies and have super marriages--and the women were in agencies because they wanted to expand their dating options--not because they wanted to escape their country. So I vehemently challenge the statement... don't think "she's doing this specifically for you."  Yes, women in love indeed marry and move to another country specifically for the man they love!  And if they don't find love, they don't marry for opportunity, as this poster thinks. Sure, some do.  But this poster says they all do, and he is dead wrong.


People like GQ need to think first and broadly before they post and attack marriages.   Mean spirited attack statements usually backfire and make the poster look bad.

[GQBlues]

.....So I vehemently challenge the statement... don't think "she's doing this specifically for you."...

Once you stop yourself from coughing from thumping your Tarzanic chest, best you determined exactly what it is you're challenging. Otherwise you'd be standing there looking like King Kong instead.
 
I SERIOUSLY doubt (though you can certainly lay down some serious BS if you want), your wife KNEW YOU personally and IT IS the SPECIFIC reason 'WHY' she signed herself up in an international marriage agency...
 

People like GQ need to think first and broadly before they post and attack marriages.   Mean spirited attack statements usually backfire and make the poster look bad.

I was under the impression you're pretty astute in the English language. Yes? Maybe I'm wrong. The display of your READING COMPREHENSION in this issue isn't supporting that assertion.
 
Take a deep breathe. Wiggle the fingers, count 1-2-3 and don't get huffy, emotional, and gooey with me and darn well read the context again, eh?

[GoodOlBoy]

I SERIOUSLY doubt (though you can certainly lay down some serious BS if you want), your wife KNEW YOU personally and IT IS the SPECIFIC reason 'WHY' she signed herself up in an international marriage agency...

I never thought of it that way, but you can't argue with GQ's logic.
 
GOB

[Simoni]

GQ-- When you try to jump on one poster and generalize to all, you are on a slippery slope.

You did that when you attacked women who are listed with dating agencies.

You repeated that attack later in this thread as you attacked our fellow poster from Canada:

 
Like it or not that's just plain reality. A woman signs up in a marriage agency *knowing* full well her mind is made up about immigrating to a new country. Hell, some of them even specify which country they want to move to in their profile, LOL. When she did this, you weren't a pigment of her imagination let alone her dulling knight in creeky armor.
 
Of course you can kid yourself all you want but unless you were in FSU and bumped to a woman on a sidewalk, who never had any aspirations or thoughts of immigrating to Canada, but because she is a sucker for buffing out creeky armors and decides to marry you and move to your country, then you can clearly claim she did all for you.
 

Your statements are so wrong, GQ.  How can you say that all women who list with an agency that "her mind is made up about immigrating to a new country" ? Not so with my wife.  She was not about to move to an new country unless she found someone she would fall in love with.  Hell--my wife loves her country and her city.  We have been in Ukraine the past 10 days and it is NOT a place you would want to run away from.  In fact, we are looking at real estate here this week.


I said it once and I'll say it again--you are wrong to judge the motives of all women that list a profile with a dating agency.

If you want to discuss reading comprehension, most here would literarily comprehend your statement "DO NOT even begin to think, if she in fact married you and move to the US, that she's doing this specifically for you." 

And that was what you were saying when you said that my wife did not move to the US specifically for me.   That's an insult, and wrong.

Perhaps you want to clarify your post, and say you did not mean it literarily?  That you did not mean what you wrote?   If so, we are good.

[GQBlues]

Chrissakes Simoni-
 
Once again, if you are NOT able to read the CONTEXT of my statement, I need NOT even respond to your huffing.
 
Nothing I said is removed from reality. A fact is a fact, and THAT is a fact.
 
Women who decided to list themselves in an INTERNATIONAL MARRIAGE AGENCY have made a decision within THEMSELVES, FOR THEMSELVES with full intent and willingness to relocate abroad by way of marriages WAAAAY BEFORE any *SPECIFIC* man was ever even a pigment of her cute imagination. When they signed up for these agencies, services, etc...who they eventually choose to marry to make THIS DECISION come to fruition is COMPLETELY UNKNOWN at the time of this signing.
 
So, for any of this women to try and ran a number and tell a man she did this *specifically* FOR HIM is an utter 100% grade bullsh!t.
 
For any man to believe she signed up in these agencies, services, etc..*specifically* for HIM is delusional.
 
These two scenarios are meaningless, useless, overly-digested, oft-regurgitated Agency hype that SHOULD NOT be repeatedly forced fed to decent people looking for happiness. The MOB already carries a stigma in both society's mainsteam without folks like you trying to deny reality as it is. The minute folks accept things as they are, the sooner any and all stigmas will wash away. People find 'love', happiness', etc..without having to pump more into this reality what IS otherwise a 'noble' way to meet one another.
　
Your vain attempt to cloud this issue and over-dramatize this simple undeniable reality by overtly using such silly words like 'ATTACK', 'JUMPED ON', 'IDIOTIC' shows far more of yourself than you remotely realize.
 
Rally the troops, the Mongols are coming!!!! We must save the women! THE END IS NEAR!!
 
Listen, if you don't believe this very elemental, very simple reality dude, then more power to you. Take your cupcake home with you because I ain't having any of that. The statement is not an attack on women, the men, their dogs, or their barber. That's your brain synopsis firing up knee-jerk reactions so knock yourself out.
 
Further I DID NOT attack my fellow poster from Canada. You are so wrought into an emotional abyss you are clearly (an oxymoron) missing every marked point you're trying to make.

[Gator]

GQ, 
 
Do RW when they sign up with an agency execute a contract binding them to marry and relocate?  Of course not, and very few would sign up if such a contract were required. 
 
 
You have a delightful wife and IIRC you met her on EM or some other agency years ago after sharing a pivo with me at the Moscow Chuckie Cheese.   I have never met your wife, yet have followed your praise of her.  Frankly, she does not seem like the FSUW who would move to America without being emotionally involved with her American man. 
 
This debate started with your comment about downplaying the need for gentle and kind Salty to help his RW adjust to a new country.  Me thinks you got yourself got into a hole. Do you know the law of holes?   In case you don't, the law is when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. 

[CanadaMan]

• OK GQ I'm game.
  I'll take you on.
   
  Let's start with the very first advice you gave Saltheart when he came here asking for help in March.
   
  This is what you advised him to do when his GF got off the plane for her first visit:
   
  "But I think for the benefit of the fallen men before you, the first time you meet at the airport, take a good look at her for a minute or two, then tell her where she can find the taxi and walk away..."
   
   
   
  In Reply #18 in this thread
  you *pre-judged* both Saltheart and his GF
  questioning their honesty for not renewing her visa with just 8 days remaining on it and accused them both of planning to over-stay her visa.
  
   
  Then came your paragrapgh that I quoted:
   
  "DO NOT even begin to think, if she in fact married you and move to the US, that she's doing this specifically for you. LOL, NO. She always planned on doing it and you simply became the wanton person that enabled that plan. Period. Women in marriage agencies aren't 'doing it for anyone' (moving to another country) except themselves when they decided to make themselves available on the international marriage scene."
   
  
  
  I will be specific now in what I am taking issue with.
  First off, who mentioned marriage agencies?
  Saltheart didn’t. Why did you bring it up out of the blue?
   
  
  
  Now let’s take apart the paragraph.
  Your prejudice seems to be against the sincerity of women who sign up at
  marriage agencies, with respect to relationships they have with foreign men. You state that their first aim is to emigrate out of their country.
   
  I’ll go along with the ‘marriage agencies’ theme for the time being.
  I will even agree that the prime motive women have for signing up at these agencies is to emigrate to a western country.
   
   
  But you then make a completely unjustified assumption.
  You don’t think that a woman, whose prime motive is to emigrate, can or wants to find someone to fall in love with.
   
  “Women in marriage agencies aren't 'doing it for anyone' (moving to another country) except themselves when they decided to make themselves available on the international marriage scene."
   
  There are two acts involved GQ. The first act is signing up with an agency, which is something the woman is doing entirely for herself.
   
  But then she wants to find someone to fall in love with, the second act.
   
  If and when she does fall in love with someone, then together, as a couple they will decide where to live. At that point they are ‘doing it’ for ‘themselves’, not for the ‘woman’.
   
   
  You then go on to say in the same post:
   
  “Just remember, you must also blame yourself for the rest of your life if someday the relationship falls apart for whatever reason.”
   
  Those are very harsh words to tell someone about a relationship that may potentially not work, don’t you think?  “Blame yourself for the rest of your life”?
  Sheesh.
  
   
   
  So let’s get back to the agency thing now.
  Why did you feel you needed to introduce ‘marriage agencies’ into the discussion when Saltheart never mentioned it?
   
  And what is the difference between a woman who decides she wants to emigrate from her country who chooses to go the non-agency route and someone who chooses to go the agency route?
   
  A woman posts her profile on various dating sites, and finds a potential mate, without using a marriage agency. She still has intentions of emigrating from her country.
  Is she an evil person? Will all her potential mates be doomed from the start?
  If she meets and falls in love with a western man, and he falls in love with her, will she be immigrating to his country for love, or to leave her country?
  
  
  
  

[Simoni]

 The MOB already carries a stigma in both society's mainsteam without folks like you trying to deny reality as it is. The minute folks accept things as they are, the sooner any and all stigmas will wash away.

We simply have seen different "realities."   


My experience with dating agencies is positive, as was the case with many of our married friends.  Women and men use dating agencies with the hope of meeting someone and falling in love. You can use terms like "MOB" to inflame, but when you do, I'll call you on it.


When you make statements like the quote below, you are  both wrong and insulting:
"DO NOT even begin to think, if she in fact married you and move to the US, that she's doing this specifically for you. LOL, NO. She always planned on doing it and you simply became the wanton person that enabled that plan. Period."

You are missing the truth, GQ.  The problem with your statement is that it does not reflect the reality that women choose.  Some fall in love and decide to marry and follow the man to their country.   Most women who join a dating agency never find someone they want to join their life with.  And they marry someone local or stay single.
Yes, I'm insulted with your statement that "you simply became the wanton person that enabled that plan. Period."

Now, if you were speaking to only one person, insult him if you wish.  But if you are speaking about all women who join a dating agency, I'm done talking to you.  Such a generalization does not warrant further response.

[Gylden]

Do you know the law of holes?   In case you don't, the law is when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. 

Good one Gator!

[vwrw]

Most of the women i communicated with in my agency had NOT decided to relocate abroad. Their decision was to take a chance with international relationship or to give it a try and see what would happen and if they meet someone good.
With a few exceptions (women who believe in predetermined destiny may assume that they enroll in an agency specially for a man), almost everyone else had clear understanding that their decision is about extending their chance to meet the right one, not about relocation although they certainly could foresee that if they met a right person, the question of relocation would arise. 
Certainly, i suppose  there are women who care only about relocation by any means, but i personally have not met such women yet.

[BC]

Most of the women i communicated with in my agency had NOT decided to relocate abroad. Their decision was to take a chance with international relationship or to give it a try and see what would happen and if they meet someone good.

Then wouldn't their best resource would have been to post on local RU meeting sites.  How many thought that the man would come to live with them?  Of course their decision to move abroad would be based on whether they found a man or not or vice versa, but the predisposition to move is inherent - otherwise there would not be reason to post a profile on a site directed towards WM.

[Simoni]

Most of the women i communicated with in my agency had NOT decided to relocate abroad. Their decision was to take a chance with international relationship or to give it a try and see what would happen and if they meet someone good.

With a few exceptions (women who believe in predetermined destiny may assume that they enroll in an agency specially for a man), almost every location would arise. 

Exactly correct.

[The Natural]

Not simply relocating, I also think one must have in mind that many women on these sites search for western men because they have better values than most FSU men that are available to them.

[Simoni]

Then wouldn't their best resource would have been to post on local RU meeting sites.  How many thought that the man would come to live with them?  Of course their decision to move abroad would be based on whether they found a man or not or vice versa, but the predisposition to move is inherent - otherwise there would not be reason to post a profile on a site directed towards WM.

Last night we were having dinner (in Dnepropetrovsk UA) with friends of my wife.
He is in the tech field and we bumped into a co-worker on her first date with a German guy she met at via  the same agency we used. The trend is for women to marry closer to home, even though it is still an International marriage.  So I guess it depends on what you mean by WM, BC.

[BC]

Not simply relocating, I also think one must have in mind that many women on these sites search for western men because they have better values than most FSU men that are available to them.

Boy, ain't that a pisser... I thought it was because there were more women in FSU than they could handle.  Talk about denigrating.

Obviously I disagree.

[BC]

Last night we were having dinner (in Dnepropetrovsk UA) with friends of my wife.
He is in the tech field and we bumped into a co-worker on her first date with a German guy she met at via  the same agency we used. The trend is for women to marry closer to home, even though it is still an International marriage.  So I guess it depends on what you mean by WM, BC.

Simoni,

Yes, would still be an international marriage.  Only notable difference is the flying time and number of hops, but still moving outside the home country into another culture.  Certainly closer to home may appeal to a broader number of interested ladies not only for ease of travel but speedier immigration and denser FSU population as well.

Not saying it's either good or bad, just that a woman or man for that matter listing themselves on a marriage agency site is pretty much stating that the desired goal is marriage and if successful, barring unusual circumstances, one partner will be leaving home to live elsewhere on the planet.

I understand your objection to GQ's post but taken at face value, it does not have to be taken as an insult directed at you or any other man here that met his wife via agency sites.

[Turboguy]

Personally I think GQ is all wet.  I will say that in some cases past and present he is right on.  I think the women who attended the tour sessions back in the 90's when Russia was virtually a basket case probably generally would fit GQ's description.  Times were desperate, women were desperate and they were looking for a mule to get them to a better place and better life.
 
Yes, there are probably a few desperate women there who are looking for someone to get them out.  I think today those are in a very small minority.  Take for example a woman there in her 30's who has a child.  We have talked often about RM not accepting another man's child and she may be able to find a man who will use her but may have a hard time finding someone who will marry her, be a father to her child and a husband for life.  She might have a very easy time finding someone abroad who will do that.  Why can we find more available quality women abroad than at home, because there are more quality women abroad than at home who are looking for a husband.  Women there have a harder time finding a good man.  Expanding their search gives them more opportunity just as it does for us.
 
I will try to make my next point in reverse.  Let's look at the men in the search.  Some men search because they want a beautiful woman with a great shape and can only find fat ugly women at home.  Some men search because they want a family and most of the women they meet at home already have 3 kids by 3 different men and it is easier to find a woman who doesn't have kids there.  Some men search because they want an intelligent, good woman who would be a good wife.  Some idiots search because they want a subservant wife who will be dependent on them.  Some men search because they can't find a woman of any kind who will give them the time of day.  Some search because the find the idea of a foreign woman with a cute accent to be a bit of an adventure.  I am sure the same is true of RW.  Some do search for the reasons GQ mentioned.  Some may be set on an foreign man because they see it as an adventure.  Personally I believe, contrary to GQ's theory that they search because they can't find a good man at home for whatever reasons or because they think they can find a good man and a better life elsewhere and they would be quite happy, even prefer to find that at home if they could, but they can't.

[Jooky]

I think some of you need to consider how these women end up on a bride or agency site in the first place, and how little thought they put into doing so.
 
Did they respond to an ad for paid chatting?

Were they recruited at a nightclub or in the street?
 
Were they offered a free photo shoot in exchange for being listed?
 
Were they intrigued by an ad that portrays foreign men as total studs? (Ever seen an old bride.ru ad for the women?)
 
Did they sign up on a whim through an internet ad when their search on local sites was coming up empty?
 
Did a friend put them up to it?
 
Did they deliberately seek out an agency with a plan?
 
For sure there are some women with the primary goal of getting the hell out of Russia (or Ukraine) and they put their plan into motion. It makes sense that these would be the most aggressive, least picky, and most likely to end up married.
 
But, from what I've seen, most women that end up on a bride site put no initial thought into leaving their country. They'll cross that bridge when they find it, which they know is most likely never (especially when it's just a job!).
 
 

[Gator]

But, from what I've seen, most women that end up on a bride site put no initial thought into leaving their country. They'll cross that bridge when they find it, which they know is most likely never (especially when it's just a job!).

That sums it up! 
 
I met many RW, certainly not as many as you, yet not a small number.  I never met a RW whose bags were packed (figuratively speaking).
 

Were they intrigued by an ad that portrays foreign men as total studs?

I never heard that one.  I never thought a RW could be so gullible.

[BC]

Personally I think GQ is all wet.  I will say that in some cases past and present he is right on.  I think the women who attended the tour sessions back in the 90's when Russia was virtually a basket case probably generally would fit GQ's description.  Times were desperate, women were desperate and they were looking for a mule to get them to a better place and better life.
 

TG,

Before casting yet another shadow over GQ, can you please point me to his post(s) in this thread that you base your statement on?

I obviously missed something..

[BC]

I think some of you need to consider how these women end up on a bride or agency site in the first place, and how little thought they put into doing so.

Although the motive may be flippant, stated or unstated, which one of us whether male or female haven't at one or more times in our life thought about being swept off our feet by a handsome/beautiful mate and carried on a winged horse to some tropical paradise.

When I was in the US, I bought a couple Powerball tickets on a lark.. knew I did not have a chance in hell but my mind did wander for a few moments, enough for me to pass on a few bucks.

[Turboguy]

TG,

Before casting yet another shadow over GQ, can you please point me to his post(s) in this thread that you base your statement on?

I obviously missed something..

BC, this is the particular part that I disagreed with.
 

DO NOT even begin to think, if she in fact married you and move to the US, that she's doing this specifically for you. LOL, NO. She always planned on doing it and you simply became the wanton person that enabled that plan. Period. Women in marriage agencies aren't 'doing it for anyone' (moving to another country) except themselves when they decided to make themselves available on the international marriage scene.

Otherwise I agree with a lot of things he says and was not implying he forgot to dry himself after getting out of the shower or was posting from his swimming pool.

[BC]

BC, this is the particular part that I disagreed with.
 
Otherwise I agree with a lot of things he says and was not implying he forgot to dry himself after getting out of the shower or was posting from his swimming pool.

I simply do not see what you see...  He did not mention anything about desperation, basket cases etc which you did mention.  Just hits me like you'r trying to put words in his mouth that's all.

Take the same whole sentence, with same emphasis you added to different parts:

Women in marriage agencies aren't 'doing it for anyone' (moving to another country) except themselves when they decided to make themselves available on the international marriage scene.

Women in marriage agencies aren't 'doing it for anyone' (moving to another country) except themselves when they decided to make themselves available on the international marriage scene.

See the difference?

Maybe you can ask him to clarify his statement instead.

[Patagonie]

Last night we were having dinner (in Dnepropetrovsk UA) with friends of my wife.
He is in the tech field and we bumped into a co-worker on her first date with a German guy she met at via  the same agency we used. The trend is for women to marry closer to home, even though it is still an International marriage.  So I guess it depends on what you mean by WM, BC.

                                                                                                       True, i often heard women saying they prefer to be not so far from their homeland. I think Europeans guys have an advantage here. Girls are not foolish, they know that they can come back easily in a day for a not crazy price. They accept the idea to be relocate, when practicing international dating, but they want  to keep a strong connection with their homeland (in a  lot of cases i think)                 

[Turboguy]

Maybe you can ask him to clarify his statement instead.

I am fine with asking him that.  There is a saying that while the cats away the mouse will play.  Well my cat is way off in Barnaul at the moment but this mouse has a huge todo list and needs to work his tail off to get the things done, particularly the messy ones so this mouse needs to get busy and really doesn't want to get too sidetracked.  Sometimes these forums get so addicting that you end up spending time you really need to use elsewhere. 
 
Patagonie,  I agree, lots of women would prefer a man from Europe.  The have the more desirable location and can visit easier.  They are lucky ducks.