The Adventure Continues: Kharkov

[neo]

Hi All,


I decided to continue my quest much earlier than expected.


For those that have read my AD exploits in Odessa this is likely to be a more sober read, as this is a much more serious attempt at finding a suitable LTR match I will be leaving out some of the fruiter details of my exploits, also since this is a much more serious prospect than my Odessa arm candy choice to protect all involved I will concentrate more on the aspects of my experience in country, in any case the choice of woman involved means such unconventional methodology is not called for.


This was a completely unscheduled trip and unexpected. It started back in Odessa on a late evening after i had called time with Megan Fox. I could not sleep due to the ground floor disco banging out eurotrance until 4am and causing the walls of the apartment to shake so i decided to log back into AD to while away some time and use up my remaining credits.


I got chatting to a woman from Kharkov who had been on my interest list for a while but I had not done anything to pursue as she had fallen somewhat outside my 'usual' zone's of interest but who was a welcome and mature conversant after a week of trivial brain fluff from Odessa Megan Fox.


we had a good bitch about our experiences so far with AD, she was a divorced woman over 25 with a young child and like a lot of young single mums was stuck at home awake with a crying child so passing some time on chat for some adult conversation. Generally her experience so far of AD men had been as poor as my experience of AD women, mostly guys 60+ looking for a bit of skirt and guys who sent her naked pictures of themselves with the flagpole raised. all quite sad stuff. we had both concluded it was a house of nutters and she was quite refreshed to speak to a 'normal' guy as I was quite refreshed to speak to a woman who had some serious view of the world.


She asked since I was having a rough time down in odessa if i wanted to get the train up and meet with her in Kharkov, we had spent some time chatting about my life in Kharkov before i was married so knew I had some experience of her city, she had quite a poor opinion of Odessa and its inhabitants. I thanked her for her offer but explained i had nearly run out of leave and needed to fly back home in a couple of days so didn't really have time, but we agreed to stay in touch.


I consider it lucky timing, previously i would not have considered a older woman who was divorced with a young child, i think my expectation of wanting some young hottie meant having a dialog with a more mature and intellectual woman would have been completely off the radar, especially with a ready made family.


On the flight home I had a lot of time to consider my situation in general and what i wanted, and i began to realise actually i did not want to go through the growing pains of another marriage with a emotionally immature young woman who demanded much and returned little, did not contribute to our future life and had little to offer the world beyond attempting to match Paris Hilton lifestyle. when I got home and having talked to a few friends i started to resolve better in my mind what it was that i was looking for, namely someone who was more my equal in terms of future earning power, ability to contribute to our families future, emotionally stable and mature, intellectual educated and capable of having a normal sense of relationship outside the whole MOB paradigm.


Looking at the woman I was now talking to I realised what a prime catch she actually was, she was only really on the market at all through bad circumstances, an early marriage to her college sweetheart who turned out to be a complete wrong un once a child was introduced into the mix meant she had been put back into single life at an age much earlier than would be normal.


I spent some time chatting to her and we exchanged about 5-6 emails, she was a completely different situation to my previous MF Odessachik - she responded to my mails within the day and wrote me lengthy, well considered and thoughtful letters that concentrated on the practical aspects of building a LTR - what was life like in my country, what were the job prospects in her career path, what about education for her daughter, what were my views on what made a good father, did i want more children, where i lived and in what sort of house, how hard was it to integrate into my society, how accepting where my countryfolk of foreigners, what did my family think - all the normal questions you would expect of someone serious on this quest and all notably absent in retrospect from my previous odessa 'pen pal'.


I also got lots of 'normal' photos from her and she demanded mine also, since i was moving into a new place she wanted to see what my choice of furniture looked like to give her approval (no doubt considering she would have to live with the consequences lol).


it was a very refreshing change of circumstance to be involved with a woman who was clearly very serious in her intentions.


All the chips started to stack in her favour. she was from a very good family and her parents owned their own business, she was incredibly well educated with a good university diploma and was working a high ranking professional job (i do not want to disclose exactly what for privacy reasons, but something she would do very well in the west in earning power), she already had her own home, and our correspondence indicated she was a genuine family values woman who had a very good sense of roles for a man and woman in marriage, was looking for a serious LTR - a husband and father for her current child and future children, and her search revolved around finding a man who would bring the right character and stability to her life not just a AMEX shopping spree.


She pretty much ticked every box in terms of being a highly educated, professional young woman who had genuine reasons to be seeking out a foreign partner, and was principally looking for a man abroad due to the double issue of being a young single mother in a country where men don't want to look after their own kids let alone anothers, and a bad experience with a local husband who turned out to be a complete disaster to her life.


Looked at rationally her child was young enough that having a new dad would not really impact her psychologically and the change would not affect her education or future prospects, given my experience the prospect of building a good family start with a respectable young woman from a good family, with a good career ahead of her and a good attitude to me outweighed the fact she was not my most usual type and the prospect of having to become responsible for another life with her child.


From a purely male point of view, looks wise she wasn't my usual type in being much shorter and more womanly than the leggy model types i had chosen for previous distasterous relationships. However since I had now matured enough to understand this was the future mother of my children this was the least important aspect of the deal.


Don't get me wrong, she was not exactly a victim of falling out the ugly tree - far from it - she was a very alluring young woman who had a look of Nicole Scherzinger of Pussy Cat Dolls about her, my general experience of some italian girls of a similar stature and looks is that they are absolute rockets in the bedroom. Sorry to be crude but these things matter in a marriage!!! - sometimes the best things come in smaller packages and having a 'woman' in your bed rather than a skinny waif certainly contributes to the overall passion involved. So one thing i was pretty assured of is that i would not go short in the bedroom fun factor.


This was actually discussed, i suppose since she is a mom the cat is already out of the bag that shes not especially virginal so quite candid on such matters and gave me a good impression that she likes to keep her man satisfied. i shall say no more.


I think one of the key benefits of moving up the age group and knocking out of the 10/10 model bracket is fringe benefits (i.e sex), its been said that high maintenance women offer poor ROI when it comes to getting something back, looking back retrospectively on my women CV the women I have dated that have been more in the 'normal' middle ground are the ones who I have conducted the most satisfactory relationships with, they were the ones who 'put out' on the 3rd date without needing to be bribed with expensive gifts and the ones who tended to give the most rather than take. Having had a run of high maintenance girls I was looking for a more normal situation where I did not do all the running, and yes, getting some bedroom action figured highly on the wishlist for a future encounter. a man cannot live on pay per view alone


So the situation was set, over our brief communication and level of questioning we started to build a certain rapport and mutual like and the topic of me visiting came up frequently, one of the big plus's for her was my ability to work from home and potentially relocated at least part time in Kharkov if needed. since she already had a place and job setting up our early life together would not be a big ordeal.


She pulled me out of AD quite quickly, when i suggested i sat up a date through them she said we were better going it alone and told me if i sent her my phone number in a letter her translator would be assured to give it to her. This dispels a huge myth that you cannot send your contact details via AD email service - if its being blocked its because the agency terps are censoring it, and if they aren't you aren't being contacted because the girl doesn't want to.


Having got in touch with her directly I decided to cash in some airmiles (to reduce my risk since it was WOVO i was keeping the costs under control) and do a early trip.


Now this time out to bat i have tempered my behaviour substantially for two specific reasons - first I have changed jobs to a more modest salaried position in a new company and cashed in my high roller lifestyle for a normal 4 bedroom house with garden suitable for a family in a nice suburban district in order to have a better work/life balance, so my days of excess are now behind me and i set out my stall as a normal working joe on a modest professional income (that was a equal match for hers) and sold myself on my ability to be a good father to her daughter, a loving husband and a general decent standup guy. we talked about fashion and other such things but this time round i joked she could buy me the Lamborghini (since in the west she will eventually earn more than i do) and i could be a stay at home dad and kept man and do the ironing, cooking and cleaning all of which amused her no end since this would just never happen in UA.


I did not bother with any flower sending, gifts or any of the usual tat. I figured in this case there was a certain equal balance in the relationship and her status and that of her family meant such attempts would be pointless anyway so went in on character alone.


I decided to fly to Kharkov with Austrian Airlines, I have always flown with them in the past and much prefer the layover in Vienna and direct run into Kharkov rather than a Kiev routing. I have a Miles&More account which due to my travel means i collect substantial amounts of miles for business class fares so had plenty of spare miles to get a business class roundtrip for the taxes alone. I had a nice comfortable flight into Vienna - service on board was perfect with a lovely cooked meal of salmon, vegetables, creamed potato, warm rolls and drinks. Austrian business class is excellent generally - not quite as VIP as Emirates but certainly for a free reward flight a great experience.


I stayed overnight at Vienna Airport, this is a great layover point for Kharkov (and fact most EE flights) as you arrive into the terminal and there is a first class hotel literally outside the terminal building - the Vienna airport NH Hotel. - i highly recommend this if you are arriving in late and flying on the next morning - since most of the AA flights leave at 10am - 1030am you need to be checked in at around 8 for economy or 9 for business class, if you already have your bags checked through then this is even better since you can just walk straight off a long hauler and get some sleep and refreshment, pretty good bar and eating too and no danger you will miss your flight in the morning as its less than a 10 minute walk to passport control.


You can usually secure a standard room in the NH for about 140 euros (about 180 USD) on hotels.com well worth it when you consider you don't have any taxi fees to pay to get into the city and back which can be expensive in austria. its nice being able to get up late, grab breakfast and a good shower and be at the airport without any delay.


a word of caution about Vienna layovers. pretty much ALL the EE flights leave at 10-11am and many are connected from previous night flights, the passport control is a HUGE choke point at this time and usually only has 3-5 booths so the amount of people trying to get through can get REALLY long. if you had already checked in and left it late as i had you can be in danger of missing your flight due to being held up here, also the EE flights do the baggage checks at the gate which are always hugely lengthy as all the EE RU and UA flights leave from one small hub of D gates and the amount of tat the RU passengers take on flights is mind boggling causing huge delays at security - also you have to be at the gate quite early as they are all bus to plane on tarmac and not airbridged. I have nearly missed a couple of flights due to Vienna's congestion issues.


The flight to Kharkov was very comfortable, business class was pretty empty. the usual odd looks of awe were given to myself and the other BC residents from the native young women boarding the plane, its amazing how such women completely ignore me in economy and choose to smile at me as they pass when i am seated in premier row. They are nothing if not status fiends


I was sat opposite a youngish (maybe early 30's woman) who was not unattractive, she actually looked like Mr Sarkozy's missus a certain Carla Bruni, enough to make me wonder what the french premieres wife was doing going to Ukraine (maybe visiting a orphanage as shes a spokesperson for UNICEF), as it happened she was just some ne'er do well international financier but we had a nice conversation and i got her number. if you want to meet a monied up single UA woman pay the extra and travel business class - its cheaper than 3 months of chat on AD and you will meet a better quality prospect and get a nice meal to boot


Meal again was high quality served on proper china dishes, chicken this time with a nice selection of green beans and other vegetables and potatoes, usual two rounds of hot rolls, drinks and coffee. i enjoyed a good meal and conversation then reclined back for a good nap for the second hour of the flight which always seems to be especially long on the run into kharkov.


While i had arranged directly to meet with the woman through her own translator i had elected to book my own apartment and transfer service as I hate putting all my chickens in one coop and like to have as much indepedence as possible when travelling. I booked my apartment through a good agency i had used in the past and got a nice discounted rate, the apartment was on Pushkinskaya where i always choose to stay and was completely refurbed and modernised to a NYC standard of interior design, i always like to choose a nice place after all it could be the location of my first dibble dabble with the woman who i could spend the rest of my life with, so making sure its a nice locale is key. the price was a pretty reasonable 71 USD per night for 10 nights. compared to the 100+ USD hotel rates I think it was a good deal as the place had a nice kitchen, leather sofa to a modern design, 2 plasma TV's, WIFI and all the other toys as well as a washer and dryer.  its one of the nicest apartments i have ever stayed in in the FSU with the only downside being no balcony and being a no smoking place i have to go down to the ground floor for a smoke, with the standard rear entry in the lane this can be a bit dodgy late at night but a compromise to have a place that is furnished as a bachelor pad and not babushka's tart house makes a good upside.


We land in about 10 minutes late as the flight to Rostov was holding the gate up at Vienna, which was good as i had mistimed my efforts to get through passport control - being on a business fare technically i only had to check in 30 minutes before takeover, but boarding actually schedules for 45 minutes before takeoff so i was cutting it close at 55 minutes to go. I got my boarding pass and took my baggage to check in, unfortunately there is no fast lane for even M&M Senator card holders, you have to pay a 99 euro upgrade to use the redlane fast track - this is a bit of a pain as BA, Emirates and most other airlines have their own fast track passport control for their premier FF members. Once I got through PC however there was a fast track for the security screening which caused a huge amount of annoyance from the legions of passengers lining up as sailed through my own private lane to the head of the line. such is the public shame of FF status. the worst of it is they would probably be doubly annoyed to know i was on a free ride and my perks came courtesy of the airline at no cost to me.


my carla bruni BC companion had the VIP shuttle bus waiting for her at Kharkov. I had to make do with the bus with the rest of the passengers, which seemed to quell their dissent that having had 2 hours of luxury i still had to share their peasant cattle bus to the terminal.


The new terminal is open in Kharkov, It was a nice surprise although i was sentimentally sad to see the old 'schoolhouse' terminal to be covered in scaffolding and quite derelict.


I have SO MANY memories of that building lining up for hours having to fill out immigration cards, customs declarations, then spending ages at the immigration desk having to correct every minor mistake on the form followed by the 'run of financial risk' through customs that were a 1/3 trip to the small room to pay some bribe.


Walking into the new terminal i could have been at Nuremberg or Malmo, a very modern light and european terminal full of light and air and NO LINES AT IMMIGRATION. gadzooks! could this really be Ukraine???


I was first in line at the desk with a nice young woman on the end, the english party next to me decided to give too much information to the new visa free regime trying to explain they were visiting friends, the guy was non the wiser - the standard TOORIST or BIZNESS? is the answer they are looking for. I proffered 'BIZNESS MEETING!' to the woman. having a passport full of stamps for Ukraine and Russia on a monthly basis would only make me look like a sex toorist if i said i was a toorist - i mean who REALLY goes to be a tourist in a city like Kharkov? its like arriving at Detroit and saying you are here to look at art galleries!!


she asks me which hotel i am staying at - i can't be bothered explaining the apartment situation and they never check so just say 'hotel kharkov' which is the default hotel for all bizness types anyway. she smiles. types it in and stamps my passport and wishes me 'good luck with your bizness meetings' which must be some new ministry of interior attempt to welcome investment in the country because i clear passport control in less than 1 minutes and it takes more than 10 for the english friends visitor crew to get past the border guard.


i head for the new baggage carousel and catch first view of the much more open customs desks which look like the more westernised versions rather than the cloak and dagger money extraction zones of yore. i wait for my bags and do my best to look like i am not carrying things of worth.


As it happens for once I have not bothered with duty attracting gifts although they had a promotion on in the duty free store for a buy 2 get one free perfum deal so i am over the notional perfum allowance but only by about 50 bucks. I also have a teddy bear in my bag for the womans child, quite a change from my designer handbag days


I am slightly irked by the fact the baggage handlers don't respect the PRIORITY baggage tags my business class FF status affords me. being Senator means my bag is supposed to be first off the plane.


Carla Bruni is equally annoyed, she spent all that money on her VIP transfer and private entrance only to have to return to collect her bags and wait with the rest of us, that said i kind of want my bags to be late as my general strategy for UA customs is to hit the desks exactly in the middle 1/3 of the passenger list. with a full flight they have around 70 possible targets to fleece and generally the first and last get hit hardest with all customs operatives being fully booked if you go through the middle third as long as you look discreet the won't touch you. the first guy through the gauntlet is a lanky canadian chap dressed like big bird from Sesame Street, he gets dragged straight to the x ray machine. then the raft of locals with huge bags of duty free whisky (they haven't learnt to discretely hide it in carry on luggage yet) all get collared. my manage to get through the middle third amidst a crowd of about 10 so we just charge the desks 4 abreast and overwhelm the 2 remaining customs sharks and plough straight on for the exit - sadly one of the crowd was a straggler on the edges and didnt keep well enough into the core group and got tagged by a shark and pulled out of the herd.


Ukraine customs, its  a war of attrition, always one lame legged gazelle gets nailed the key is to stick to the middle with plenty of victim padding and head at a determined speed for the door and don't make eye contact or look nervous!!!


i manage to get through the doors - god only knows why i feel compelled to behave in such away since i have so little to declare but i just hate the whole process of having to justify yourself that you aren't involved in some plot to defraud the UA government out of tax dollars and should pay a bribe just for the sake of not having your bags trawled through for an hour. I suspect they behave themselves more in Kharkov now as they have the football thing coming up and need to show a more welcoming view of foreigners. Sadly for big bird Canada does not figure prominently in the champions league so his card was marked from day one.


I head across the new arrivals hall which is a huge improvement. I doubt there is a AA BC lounge though. my driver is waiting for me by the main exit. the sort of guy if you met him in NYC you would think was either about to be the walk on part in a shady porn film with a questionable plot around a plumber, or some extra from Grand Theft Auto. we head to his Hyundai across the newly tarmac and painted carpark which is still full of beat up old soviet era taxis (some things never change) and are on our way. We don't bother talking he doesnt speak much english and I doubt he has much insight to offer into Obama's latest healthcare reforms in any case..


I have a text waiting from my woman's interp asking me to make contact when i arrive which is a bit of a relief having gone private on this encounter you never know what is going to happen.


We get to the apartment after the usual comical ride through the city - it reminds me why i thought better of my first plan to hit the car rental desk and hire one, while i don't mind driving in such circumstances doing so in a rental car is somewhat problematic as its not usually the 2 ton SUV that you would want to feel safe in.


The apartment owner is there to greet us, I am relieved it is all as described - he is a typical russian bear sized guy - the sort of bloke you imagine wrestled bears in the army. but he is a nice friendly chap and does his best in english to describe to me the features of the apartment, sets up my WIFI internet and gives me the number. i pay the apartment rental fee in cash and they leave me to it. I text the terp my apartment details and local number. its quite warm so i think about going for a jolly.


I get a call within 5 minutes on the apartment line from the womans interp, I am quite thankful as you always wonder if you are on a WOVO if you are going to get a no-show. she asks me how my journey went and lets me know my woman would like to meet me the following day around 4pm after she finishes work, i say thats fine. its already 4pm now this day and i need to get some money sorted, shower and buy some food for my place and get a good nights sleep. i know some guys and gals like to meet asap and not waste time, but i am big on the view that first impressions are important and arriving post flight stinking and sweaty and tired is not a great first impression so generally like a day to settle on first encounters.


I sort my stuff out and start thinking of a plan of action on how to tackle my return to Kharkov and get settled in for the next 10 days.

[neo]

My first outing.


I always think its important to get out on the streets asap after arrival, especially if you are travelling without agency support. Its very easy i find to get bogged in to a siege mentality in the security of your apartment. i can remember meeting a guy who would simply not leave his place alone, the reality is once you get out and about you realise unless you dress like a complete numpty nobody really pays you any attention.


the first thing i need to do is sort out my finances. I have brought a bunch of USD however my usual currency counter vigilance got diluted due to being in a hurry to catch the plane and the exchange monkey has given me a bunch of tatty worn bills that are unusable in Ukraine, luckily they are under the declarable amount for exiting so I am in little danger of not being able to take them back to said monkey to get them changed back. Also luckily i have my visa debit and a credit card handy and plenty of coverage in my checking account, so its not a disaster - but a word of caution if you are relying on cash ensure you do get brand new bills, preferably in 50 USD denominations as they are very cautious over 100's and don't accept any worn bills, your best bet is to go to your bank and request the money in brand new bills if you are a US resident and get the money from your own banks currency service and not the airport booth if you are not, generally the bills issued by airport exchanges are rubbish and they just don't care enough to give you clean bills.


So i decide i should get out straight away, in any case i have nothing to eat or drink in the flat and its getting on for 5pm so i dont want to spend the night without provisions.


I head down Pushkinskaya in the afternoon sun, its good weather and warm. I have decided to abandon my dodgy USD collection and just take out the best 100 USD i have just in case then head for a ATM - first thing to note about ATM's there is a lot of mickey mouse  banks that have ATM's that only work for their own customers, you need to find a ATM that clearly displays all the international card symbols such as visa and mastercard, cirrus and so on. The first ATM i went to just spat my card out straight away. I should have been more vigilant because if it had eaten my card i was in for a real problem and also i was a bit concerned that my card had a stop on it. About 2/3 down Pushkinskaya i found a suitable international exchange/bank/western union outfit that had all the usual visa/mC/amex signs on it, it was in a safe locale for taking out money so i stopped to get some cash. my first request for 2000 UAH was denied - obviously a cap on the machine since my own banks daily card limit is 1000 USD so i just settle for 1000 UAH and get the money out.


A word of caution, in english the ATM's are a bit mickey mouse in how they work. they give you your money then ask you 'do you want to continue' if you say no then you get a wierd advertisment screen all in russian with two possible options to the left and right - at this point you have your receipt and your money but not your card back. this is one of those 'oh shit moments'


The display is actually an advert for financial services - its quite common on most of the ATM network now. if you think its just the idle screen you can think the ATM has eaten your card, IT HASN'T you need to just choose one of the options then it will spit your card back out and tell you something like 'thank you our financial adviser will contact you'.


I hate this kind of thing, since first time it happened i thought the machine had swallowed my card and didnt know what to do, if i had walked away the person in line behind me could have just pressed a button and got my visa card out and gone berserk. its a STUPID thing to have a russian advert in the middle of a english language transaction because you have no idea what the two options are or what is going on.


If you are at all unsure of how ATM's work here then i advise you to have your woman or terp with you to make sure if you have any 'strange' situations like above they can resolve them, losing your only source of cash in country is a nightmare which is why i always try and make sure i have a back up ATM card with me just in case. A lot of banks will issue you a second ATM card if you persuade them you need it due to international travel and having a AMEX can be a lifeline with their emergency financial support service if you lose your card.


Having got some cash i decide thats enough financial excitement for one day and decide not to bother cashing in some USD. I go for a walk down to Sumskaya to find my usual supermarket just off a side road down from the opera house.


It takes quite a while as i find myself deeply distracted by several attractive ladies with long flowing black hair and pert bottoms, its a nice tour of the city to walk around behind a pert bottomed young lady walking on her heels - its something if you did back home you would probably be arrested for stalking, but the UA girls (for the most part) seem to be either used to it or flattered by the attention. my favourite brief encounter trick is to walk behind a girl on her phone, then wait until she stops at a crossing or similar and bump right into the back of her, then steady her so she doesnt fall over and say sorry in my best hugh grant accent and smile sweetly. this usually gets you scolded by some bad tempered young woman or a bashful smile and curious look and at least twice a phone number.


It makes a chap sound like a complete sex pest, but this is pretty much form for picking up girls in europe. men aren't shy in approaching women here and having a crack at it.


i arrive at the supermarket and find its been turned into a sushi bar. so wander about trying to find a replacement, i try my second usual place closer to the opera house but am saddened to find its now 1/3 the size it used to be and sells virtually nothing i wanted. i collect some coke, pretzels, skittles and a bar of chocolate and figure that will get me through the night. thank god i had a good meal on the plane. I can't be bothered with a McDonalds or dining solo and want to just stock up for the apartment.


I come out and its raining. i mean RAINING.


the water is already pouring out of the gutters and side alleys, i have only been inside 5 minutes. I decide to shelter under the cover of the store and wait for it to pass figuring it for a quick shower. BIG MISTAKE.


the rainstorm quickly turns into a full continental thunderstorm monsoon. within minutes the volume of water coming down has turned the entire street into a fast flowing river, since Kharkov is on a hill and i am down that hill from my apartment all the water is flowing downwards. foolishly not wanting to get wet i wait too long and the water coming down from the sky is quickly being outweighed by the water on the ground in terms of problems factor. since i am dressed for summer i only have a linen jacket on.


The wind is driving the rain down the hill so i decide the best bet is to go away from my place away from the rain to try and avoid going face first into the storm, so i dash out, within 30 seconds i am soaked, it is completely torrential. thankfully find a cross street so i can get some sideways shelter from the prevailing direction but the problem is the water is pouring off the rooftops to such an extent every few seconds its like having a bucket dropped on your head, lucky its quite a humid storm and the water is at least warm, but the sheer volume of standing water is turning into a flood.


By the time i hit sumskaya the roads are fast flowing rivers, every crossing turns into a hop skip jump attempt to try and cross mini rivers of water. I get across sumskaya to the former KGB building and the next road is a real problem, its about 3-4 feet deep in water across the entire length, and not just standing water but a fast flowing torrent of dirty brown water coming down the street at a rapid pace. i try and figure our a crossing point but such is the volume that its getting deeper by the second, there is nothing else for it and i dash across the street about 3 foot deep in fast water, i could not be any wetter now if i jumped in the river.


I get to Pushkinskaya finally and am thankful to have come out at the mcdonalds. i consider sheltering but the damage is already done and i am so wet if i stop i will just become damp and the walk home will be twice as miserable so resolve to plough on. every street crossing involves a wade through 3 foot of fast flowing water and every attempt to shelter by a building involves a torrent of water off the roof. I make it finally on to the final block and home. i walk through the door and drop my shopping back (which has about 5cm of water in it) and head straight for the shower. my shoes are FULL of water (24 hours later they are still soaked through to the core), and have to strip butt naked, the water has soaked through to my pants so i have to take everything off in the shower. i quickly run a hot shower to warm up, dry off and pour myself a coke


the tropical storm eases off and back to sun a while later but i am exhausted from my ordeal of getting home so decide to turn in to bed for an early night, i was thankful at least my decision to bury my wallet in my back pocket meant it had not got badly wet and my new stash of UAH had not been soaked in the process.

[Hammer2722]

Hi Neo, great posts. I've always enjoyed reading them. Looking forward to the rest of the TR. 


About the ATM not giving your card back. I have learned that if you just hit the cancel button after getting your money and receipt, it will spit your card back out.

[neo]

Day 2.


Thanks for the tip Hammer on the ATM, i will remember that in future.


So Its Saturday and i get woken up around 9am by a phone call. the translator tells me that unfortunately the woman I am meeting cannot make our appointment due to having a emergency at work, but she will definitely be available tomorrow. Bugger I think, this is where the biggest weakness in WOVO trips unfold, you just cannot plan for these problems.


Despite the reason probably being quite genuine I find myself irked still at being stood up, one of the big issues for guys I think is we make a huge effort logistically to get to visit these gals and at no small expense so when they fail to show for a meeting like this you cannot help but feel let down that they are not making the effort, but unfortunately i suppose life goes on for them. That said I think when its a first meeting and you are second day in still with a no show then the nerves start to play on you that its going to be a wasted trip. Wanting to play the gentleman and be a WOVO is not always the most practical of solutions unless you have a lot of time and money to burn on wasted adventures, the flip side is that murphys law of international dating means if you go on a WMVM then the first girl you will meet will be a cracker and you still have a bunch of scheduled dates you do not know if you should take or not but I would say you have to be just hard headed and realise the deck is against you therefore you have to go with at least some backup plans otherwise you end up getting very bored and frustrated.


The interpreter takes pity on me and txt's me later to say she was sorry for the inconvenience and offers to meet me to show me the city, I suggest I need to hit a supermarket after my yesterdays failed attempt so we agree to meet in the afternoon.


The interpreter arrives and she is actually quite a looker, very attractive and well spoken. I apologise for being 15 minutes late as my time was still set 1 hour behind in Vienna and did not realise.


We head over to Caravan to do some shopping, the taxi fare is only 40 UAH from downtown to the shopping centre which is a big improvement on the Odessa 200 UAH taxi scams.


I do some shopping and we have a nice chat, the girl works part time doing translation and has a day job. she has good english and is much less mental than the odessa terp i was lumbered with.


After the supermarket trip (about 270 UAH for an assortment of western man diet tat) which was reasonable for the amount I bought we head to a small cafe for a late lunch and have a good chat about AD, the men who visit Kharkov and the whole thing in general. She is a nice person to converse with, the bill for the meal for 2 is about 81 UAH - certainly much more what i was expecting than then 2000 - 3500 UAH bills I got for average Odessa encounters so at least i feel I am in 'normal' mode.


After my last efforts I decided to leave the designer wardrobe at home and take my 'travelling student' togs to downplay my status to a more normal young guy level. This wasn't a trip for showboating.


We get the taxi back which was another 40 UAH, i offer to pay the interpreter for her time but she politely declines and tells me the trip was her idea so she didn't expect payment. OK i thought so didn't push the issue, she told me she wouldn't be able to do translation for tomorrows meeting as she had a personal engagement but she had arranged for her friend to do the translation who would call me. she suggests if she is not busy with work in the week we could meet up again, an offer that is not unwelcome as she is attractive, just my type and speaks perfect english.


So i head back to my apartment and sort out my groceries then settle in for a dull Saturday evening alone, i don't much feel like going out and about on a Saturday night - the council seems to be saving money as well as even in the centre on Pushkinskaya there is no street lighting so the place is dark as hell and not a place you want to walk about late at night. I surf the internet and kill some time.


Spending a saturday in country on your own is a pretty crap deal, and one of the biggest things I do not like about WOVO, also arriving on a weekend is usually a bad plan if your gal already has plans, arriving on a tuesday/weds seems to work out better since you can get in a couple of meetings before weekend so she is more likely to give up a friday/sat night for you, that said its a pretty bad deal when you have travelled such a long way if your choice of gal is not prepared to take time out to be with you or make other arrangements so its a big black mark for me for any girl that won't give up her saturday night for a future LTR partner.


I am usually pretty intolerant of being stood up, I had a girl in kharkov would would do it quite frequently, once she made every reason in the book not to visit me and i finally met her the day before i left when surprise surprise she wanted to go on an expensive shopping trip which i declined and left her and went home, she had the nerve to get in touch afterwards and invite me back again which i declined pointing out spending all that time and effort for one date was a pretty poor ROI.


On that basis I pretty much have a 3 strikes and out rule, generally you can forgive 3 blown dates due to lifes circumstances but any girl who regularly puts you behind everything else in her life probably isnt cut out for the compromise and sacrifice to make a international relationship go the distance. getting time in country is precious so if she doesnt want to take advantage of every minute of it then its not a great start moving forward and pretty impossible to build out a proper face to face relationship.


So on to Tommorrow...

[neo]

Day 3.


I wake up pretty late and decide to sleep in until lunch, I find these spells in city pretty boring now and not an ideal way to spend vacation time. When you have been to a city too many times its like being at home where its lost all sense of appeal to explore or do anything, so i just loaf about in the morning.


I try and forget about yesterdays blown date, even though i am mildy annoyed by it there is no point in taking that forward into a first meeting and wrecking the first impression so you have to just accept its water under the bridge.


I get a call from the new interpreter about 12 to say that the woman i am meeting will meet me sometime later in the afternoon and she will call back with an exact time.


I get up and have a late breakfast and start to sort myself out from loafing mode into being presentable, i grab a shower then start to have a shave, it gets towards 2 and i get a follow on call to tell me the woman i am meeting has rung to say her child is unwell and can't make it today, she will give me a call later to let me know about tomorrow.


I have very mixed emotions at this point, from a selfish perspective I am hugely annoyed about being stood up twice in a row and spending an entire weekend staring at paint, and from a more altruistic perspective I accept I am meeting a woman with a busy career who is a single mom with responsibilities who can't just drop everything - this is the life you sign up for if you take on a mother with a young child, its not a smooth flowing romance you get with a single girl. Unfortunately this is also why single moms with careers find it hard to get a man, its much easier to take on a young woman with no baggage who is available to entertain you at the drop of a hat, it takes a lot more tolerance and patience of a guy to put up with the inconveniences of single parent life demands and these are two things I have not been blessed with in the past.


what to do.


Unfortunately experience in agency life means these are often overused excuses and the truth is rarely the truth, so even when it is the truth you don't quite believe it, the worst case scenario is not even understanding why someone could not make even 30 minutes in a 3 day window just to say hello.


If I had been sensible and taken a plan B/C WMVM it would have been no big deal and i could have moved on to the next encounter, sadly i put all my eggs in one basket and committed to a 10 day trip on a WOVO that was now rapidly unravelling.


the first cancelled date i could cope with, now having had 2 cancelled in a row means whatever first meeting we have i am going to go into with a tendancy to be quite put out and not entirely impressed with this womans attentiveness, although I accept she has a child and work i didn't exactly spend 10 minutes driving down the road to see her and the nerves are starting to really get to me that this is going to be a complete no-show and waste of time.


What to do?


She only has one more strike of the bat, if I am in country 4 days without a first meeting the first full weekend of my trip has gone and we haven't even got to first base, the odds of getting enough F2F time on this basis are evaporating.


I have two possible options: try and pull in a plan B - even though its not likely to be a serious LTR due to being a random pick it would at least give me some entertaining companionship for the rest of the week to spend time with.


2: bail it as a dead prospect and book a ticket on the next plane home. since i got my first ticket on reward i can stand the loss OK and its probably better to lose the weeks apartment fees than lose a week of time doing something more practical in life than sitting around waiting for a phone to ring.


I check out my flight options first, its pretty much fixed price BC (cheaper than economy at short notice one way) on every day to get home, first viable option will be tuesday since that gives this evening to see if i get a reschedule for her third strike of the bat, and if she cancels again tomorrow I can contact the apartment people and let them know of my early exit and book the tuesday afternoon flight out, and at least save 5 days of time and money in country.


I decide to use today and tomorrow to hit some dating sites to see if i can schedule a random meeting and prepare my stuff in case i decide to call it quits.


So the best laid plans.......


This is a REAL issue of WOVO - it has happened quite rarely to me, the most successful WOVO meant i got married the worst is encounters such as this where its just a string of broken dates, in future I am resolved to go WMVM and have multiple backups from different sources. i am also considering taking a buddy with me next time, having spent a lot of these trips flying solo it can be a lot more fun to have a 'wingman' playmate to go out and have fun with during the down time and go and chase some girls in bars, the park etc rather than sitting around twiddling thumbs.


So, this is really the sublime to the ridiculous.


The odessa girl was available daily (at a price per hour) the 'sensible' option of a older woman, with a good career and child means a whole new set of problems.


I think however critical we are of chasing girls 21-24 one of the key benefits is they have a lot of time on their hands (especially if they are students) even if you are chasing a 25/30+ woman with job and kids its always nice to have a young 20 something singleton with no baggage to kick around with during the day when she is not at college.


I think the next evolution of my strategy is to have 1-2 serious prospects of more mature career women, but then have a couple of college student types to fill in the blanks with, seems a bit naughty but being realistic you can't sit around all day doing nothing and when the women don't really give up a lot of time to fit in with you there is nothing else you can do but play the field.


Ho hum.


so we wait for the final strike out to see which way this goes.


Not really the start I was hoping for if i am honest and I am not currently holding out much hope that this girl is a keeper after all.

[Muzh]

Can someone send me the Cliff Notes?

[Boethius]

I enjoy neo's posts, and the wit and detail he puts into them. 


I will wait until the conclusion of his TR to comment (if I do).

[Muzh]

I enjoy neo's posts, and the wit and detail he puts into them. 

Oh, I'm pretty sure it is a joy to read. It is just that I do spend many hours in front of the computer doing research that I can't bring myself to do this kind of reading. Maybe later.


Was not meant as an insult, Neo.

[Chelseaboy]

Good luck there Neo,and thanks for sharing your experiences with us.
You never know,even if  the girl you are due to meet does turn out to be a no-show, maybe the first terp might turn out to be the "one".
 
 
 
 
 

[Faux Pas]

neo has already shown more tolerance that I would have given the circumstances. I've only been stood up twice by the same woman once in my life. I should have not given her the second opportunity.


neo, with all your experience, I just don't get why you keep going back to the agencies. Changing the demographics may not be the problem as much as the agency?

[Patagonie]

"On that basis I pretty much have a 3 strikes and out rule, generally you can forgive 3 blown dates due to lifes circumstances but any girl who regularly puts you behind everything else in her life probably isnt cut out for the compromise and sacrifice to make a international relationship go the distance. getting time in country is precious so if she doesnt want to take advantage of every minute of it then its not a great start moving forward and pretty impossible to build out a proper face to face relationship."

I agree totally Neo. Girls don't really understand how costly it is to do such travel. The second thing i've learnt : it costs nothing to the girls. Girls agree if you say, would you want to see me in your city ?
 Cost for her : NOTHING. At any time she can return at home for almost free. It's why a WOVO is so costly for the man. Neo you are describing the mix of emotions encounteried very well. I really appreciate your honesty and the way you use to describe it. I've had this mix of emotions with a non succesful VO, the girl not showing as soon as i had arrived, a frantic wish to see me (and fortunately we dated).
And of course it's not neutral, you mandatory feel hurted, which is quite normal, so the meeting (hoping it will happen) will be not the same after these two no shows.
 Keep care, and if you are chasing in Ukraine for july contact me, of course it's more funny to have a wing.
Pat

[Chelseaboy]

Men that never go to the FSU to meet girls they have been communicating,are quite rightly ridiculed as "keyboard romeos",on these forums.
However,not enough is said about the other side of the coin,the guys that do go and are stood up by disrespectful women.
Maybe there would be a lot less keyboard romeos if some of these women from the FSU treated their men visitors with more decency and feeling.
I'm sure many of these women are well aware of the costs involved in coming to meet them,they are far from naive,but they just don't care.It's not their money,or they would think differently i'm sure.
Maybe they think all the foreign men coming to meet them are wealthy,and wasting money,time and emotion on an abortive trip should be no big deal to a wealthy foreigner.
Anyway,this girl might turn up for the date at the third attempt tomorrow,but if i was in Neo's shoes i would be very wary of her now.She could at least have made a quick visit to where he's staying,with one of the terps,to apologise and give him a quick lift to his spirits.That would have been the decent thing to do in my eyes,not to leave him hanging like this.
 
 

[neo]

Hi all and thanks for all your support.


At times like this the boards are a comforting reprieve from the waiting.


Thanks also pat, I will let you know what my July plans are and might take you up on that offer. Having done a lot of solo trips and 2 with buddies its the low points when a drinking bud really help lift your spirits


Agree with all that has been said really - the ONLY reason i have given this girl 2 successive strikes of the bat is because she is a single parent, and as a child of a single parent I know how rough it can be when bad luck strikes against you - kids do choose the worst possible times to get ill and you cannot blame the parent, I would not think much of a mother who left a sick child to go out on a date, and the date would be poor quality as if she was a decent mom she would be fretting all the time over her young ill child. its a little bit of a shame that a lot of agencies use many exscuses that aren't true that make a lot of 'boy who cried wolf scenario's, so its hard to keep a reality check in these situations and not get overly paranoid. its just a PITA, i would definately advise any guy meeting a single mom with a career to not do WOVO - the risks are hugely higher.


I agree with some very wise words written here - the big problem now is however understanding and patient i want to be, the reality is the 'glass is broken' in respect that my first excitement, happiness and thrill of meeting my date for the first time has been replaced by more negative feelings, so as said if she does show for the third and final try then my attitudes cannot help but have changed towards her. I think the sense of romance has been deflated considerably and I cannot help (even though its probably 100% not her fault) feel a bit annoyed and wary of her, so i am not at this point how sure that it will be possible to have a good first meeting.


they say you only get 1 chance to make a good impression, now my first impression will always have been stood up 2 times then probably a difficult third date.


As said i think if she could have even found 10 minutes on her way home from work just to say hello it would be a much different story, but to be sat around waiting 3 days just made me want to get on a plane home. I am sure I am not the first board member to feel that.


Chelsea has some valid points - we talk about the KR's and the pro-daters, scammers and agency shenanigans, very rarely do we talk about the issue of girls who just don't realise what a tremendous financial (and emotional) journey it is for men - perhaps its because many men come and just rack em stack em and pack em that they think we do this without any sort of personal investment - but I think to fly half way round the world on a blind date takes tremendous personal courage, character and commitment that we rarely get credit for. when we are seen as 'pushy' for wanting to have a lot of time together and some signs of commitment rarely do they take into account what we already invested in the situation.


its hard to tell how this will pan out - its best 50/50. if i turn up i do not know if after having such a troubled start i can reignite enough romance into the situation to overcome the challenges, and if she cancels again then for sure I am booking on the next flight home. its a dangerous thing to follow one bad situation with another and trying to raise a plan B at short notice rarely works well.


FP, i had no actual intention of going back through the agency route - this current meeting was a real 'left curve ball' as i exited my last situation, it just so happened that she ticked a lot of the right boxes and i thought it was worth a punt - something I may choose to regret.


if i am honest its because i am being lazy, but this is probably turning into 3 successive strike out's with agency girls therefore its clear what has been said on the board is wholly true that the quality is just not there any more. I used to have a pretty good 'nose' for picking winners out of agency girls, maybe the game has changed, maybe i have lost my pixie dust, maybe i just don't have the nose for it any more or the agencies are just too much of a overfished pond - in truth i think its a combination of a lot of these things.


I think this will be my final agency encounter in any case, the world has moved on a lot since i met my ex and there is certainly a different rulebook in play. time for an old dog to learn some new tricks

[Chelseaboy]

Yes Neo,i think it is getting much harder to deal with agency girls in general.
I have a very good friend on these forums who has been to Ukraine and Russia 15 times in the last 10 years to meet agency girls from sites including Anastasia and Army of Brides.
Initially,he met with some success,and on his first trip he met a girl who he had a 2 year relationship with,including her spending 6 months at his home in Scotland.
Sadly,it never quite worked out with her,so he continued his quest.He tells me it has got harder and harder,although his increasing age may have something to do with that.He's now 50.
Of course when you've had some success using a certain method,much like yourself,it gives you the belief you can do it again,which is human nature.
He has now given up on Ukraine and Russia,and travels to Latin America instead,where he finds the women much more serious in their intentions to marry a foreign man,with a whole different attitude from them.
Of course local marriage agencies are not big business in Latin America,so maybe the girls motives are somewhat different.
He also speaks fluent Spanish,which of course helps a lot also,whereas his Russian language ability is  limited.
 
 
 

[LAman]

Sorry neo...I need time to really read to your posts....I feel like I have ADHD when reading....
I have only read the comments and your opening post.
 
So this girl you were supposed to meet, spoke little to no english?
Why haven't you tried ones that speak english..or am I off?
 
In almost 5 years, have never had an AD not show up or not know very well of correspondence.
 
I hope you do well on this trip, in particular what to do in Kharkov I may be there later this year.
Thanks for your thoughts...

[Kuna]

I'm enjoying the read very much neo and appreciate the effort taken to write it.

I'm confused though as to why you're not using your time to just get out and experience life in UA more when stood up.  I've not been to Kharkov but can't imagine it being much different to other cities outside of Kiev.  A walk in the park or a long slow lunch (with beer) in a cafe would be a great way to lift the spirits.

I hear what you're saying about single mothers and their priorities,  but unless she has no family close-by I think it's unreasonable to miss "dates" two days in a row.

Surely there's even an expat pub where you could catch up for a chat and find a wingman???

Personally I'd be out making the most of a less than perfect situation and hope you do the same.

I hope things turn around for you.

[neo]

Hi All and thanks for all your support.


I think it has just been a run of bad luck/timing Kuna. I hear what you are saying about getting some time out to take my mind off things, unfortunately the weather was pretty bad all weekend, after my Friday outing it took 2 days for my shoes to dry out - it rained pretty much on and off all day Sunday so I didn't really feel much like going out for a walkabout. Its partly laziness/boredom with Kharkov, I spent many months here some years ago and have spent a lot of time in the city, luckily its more a working vacation and i have quite a bit of paperwork to get through during the daytime during 'downtime' so things aren't so bad during the week - i think its more a case of the delay in the first meeting meaning my nerves have not settled yet so I am finding it more difficult to take my mind off it.


I had a chat last night with the girl in question, she was very apologetic for the situation, I do not believe it was intentional - i think the reason i am being very tolerant of her circumstances is due to the experience with my sister whose partner abandoned her with a young baby and the problems she had in managing work/being a single mom and then trying to have a personal life as well. Unfortunately children under 5 can pour buckets of cold water over romance even in a marriage so trying to start a new romance from scratch can be like climbing a mountain.


While she has strong family support and her mom takes care of her child while she is working, I do understand it can be difficult to then get this extended so she can go out dating as well, and of course its very difficult for a young first time mother to walk away from a sick child.


So i just put it down to a run of bad luck that is just magnified due to the circumstances of WOVO.


i think read back to back with my Odessa experience it really shows the two ends of the spectrum - on the one hand all the challenges of being involved with a pro-dater and the other hand being involved with a young single mom with a career - the experience could not be more different and each presents challenges, no doubt many guys will experience both during their travels, hopefully my TR's highlight the fact not every visit will be plain sailing - if i look back retrospectively i had a VERY easy ride with my trip when i met my ex-wife where everything just fell into place, CB has a very good point however in that the game has certainly moved on since I was last involved and the presumption that what worked for us in the past still works is probably not correct.


I got a call today to say we have a meeting set up for this evening, they will send a taxi for me to take me to the date and the woman I am meeting asked if it is ok to bring her child with her.


I have to say this is going to be a baptism of fire for a long term bachelor such as myself, I can't ever remember going on a first date with a woman with a young child as well.


I think moving forward the challenge is how to actually have a romance building relationship with the pressures of a young child involved, compared to some of my more 'trivial' encounters this feels like a very grown up situation to be in, hopefully i have the maturity and patience to handle it.


Regarding her english I do not see this as a deal breaker, my ex did not speak much english when we met and she was fluent after a reasonable time and it did not really affect our relationship, the woman in question has enough 'ticked boxes' to outweigh the lack of english which can be easily solved with lessons.


So we will see how this evening goes, I had a sleep on it and decided when in doubt do nothing, I have options to be able to fly back out if it does not work, alternatively if the weather breaks hopefully as Kuna suggest's i can hit the Irish Pub and go walkabout and try and make the best of my lot.


its going to be a interesting test for me i think today, my natural pattern is to choose quite uncomplicated love affairs that are not always built on solid foundations. My choice in this woman was definitely a 'long play' in the fact her attitudes, career path and character are well aligned to supporting a much more stable long term relationship rather than being built on something that is first date whizz bang chemistry. The challenge for me is to break my pattern of behaviour and have the patience to get over the lack of early dating uncomplicated encounters and get to terms with the reality of being involved with a ready made family.


I am not sure i would even be on this path had I not taken away the experience I did from Odessa, i felt my current choice was a much more 'reality' check about choosing someone who is likely to be serious and not just out for fun.


That said, if it does not work out I think this will be my last run at the agency girls, WOVO and not planning my campaigns better. I think i am more stuck in a situation where I did not plan any other activities through a little arrogance that I have spent so much time in country it now seems quite trivial just to get on a plane and turn up, had I planned things better I probably could have organised a trip over to Kiev or meeting up with friends, its a dangerous assumption that in the course of love all will run smooth.


And next time i will bring an umbrella

[neo]

First Meeting:


So Just got back from the first date, and here is the report.


Initial feelings are mixed emotions, unfortunately due to the delays it was something of a anti-climax in the end - i think you always go into these things hoping for the best and expecting the worst and rarely is it either.


The taxi picks me up with the terp and we head for one of the new out of town shopping complexes, we are running a little late i think. we arrive and the taxi bill is a reasonable 60 UAH (about 1/3 of the Odessa 'special rates'). we head for the resteraunt which is the usual sushi bar type outfit on the top floor, its very swanky and I am nervous after my Odessa experience that it will be another financial assault for a overpriced meal, so I am not expecting the best.


my date is already here with her young child who was incredibly well behaved during the meals. Without going into huge detail she is probably much more attractive in person than the photos as is often the case and I am not dissapointed in this respect. First contact is a little awkward, I am not sure if i should shake her hand, hug her or kiss her on the cheek, she seems not really sure of correct etiquette either so we end up in some mutual stand off so i decide to sit down, probably not the best idea but given the circumstances i think a little air had been let out of the balloon.


It was a funny date all things told, unfortunately a child can be quite distracting at this age, and since we had already gone through huge amounts of Q&A in correspondence its often hard to find the correct ingress point at these first meetings until a mutual dialogue is establishes, my date seems quite tired (no doubt the effect of work and small child) so its not the best of first date circumstances all things considered.


Conversation is polite but sparse, hard to get any measure of my dates interest, either she is quite reserved or not interested - its impossible to guess which in the space of an hour. I hate sushi so struggle to find anything to eat. the child is actually a welcome distraction for the awkward silences and  provides a good natured dose of amusing behaviour to help things along.


her child being quite young and close to bedtime starts getting a bit irritable so I decide its an opportune time to lift her spirits and present her with the bear I got for her, and also give her mum the perfum i bought, the child is instantly spirit lifted by the new bear and I am rewarded with a giant grin - possibly the nicest reaction i have had to such a low priced gift - certainly much better than the result of handing over an expensive handbag


My date is happy with her perfum as well, it wasn't especially expensive but at least it showed I had thought about her and chosen a scent i thought she would like.


Unfortunately because its close to bedtime she will have to leave soon to get her child to bed which is fair and understandable, but again something of a anti-climax for a first encounter - i would say it was the least romantic set of circumstances you could have for a first date of a long distance encounter, it will be interesting to see what feedback i get if any from her side of how things went.


there were a number of problems i think that probably meant things did not go as well as I would hoped.


the issue of 2 cancelled dates did predictably hang heavy my side, it was hard to get up a lot of enthusiasm despite my best efforts in case disappointment loomed again.


probably experience of AD means you are constantly cautious as to the true motivations of your date and what the situation is all about.


i was waiting to see what damage the eatery bill was, i was at this point fearing a repeat of past performances.


I found her attractive, but for whatever reason (perhaps we were both being reserved) we didn''t 'click' quite as neatly as would be positive.


We were on a constrained timeline due to the childs need to go to bed.


i was being very reserved after some previous encounters, so maybe did not show as much interest as normal which she possibly took as disappointment, this was more due to trying to 'find my feet' in a situation with child in tow as its not a dating scenario i have been well versed in.


talking through a terp is always a big stumbling block to development of closeness, this is just the early pain you go through not having good language comms. I have learnt it can be worth pushing through and the results can be rewarding but it requires patience and dedication on both sides.


so she departs and i give her 100 UAH for her taxi fares, i don't mind doing it (12 bucks is hardly fleecing me) but it still reminds me of the past AD Odessa scenarios. if we got onto further dates and the 'taxi fare' rose in line with amount of time spent I would definitely know something was rotten in denver, but since most taxi fares in and out of town seem to be 40-60 UAH it seems a reasonable return trip price that she wasn't making a profit out of it.


she says goodbye and she is off, it was all a bit of a whirlwind visit really, hard to know if this was genuinely because she had to get the child home before she got grouchy and showed her mum up or because she just wasn't in to me and wanted to call time on the date asap - we will find out I guessed.


if i had to sum it up so far - 'much ado about nothing'. she is a lovely looking woman, the child was very cute and well behaved but the whole experience was something of a anti-climax which either means expectations were too high, or expectations were not met from her side.


i got the bill for the meal for 4 and it was 310 UAH (about 35 bucks) which was a big improvement on the 900-3500 range of Odessa outings and more in line with what i would expect to pay. the terp gets me a taxi back to my place which comes in at another 60 UAH and then i pay her translating fees of 250 UAH for 2 hours and we are done, no real mention of if there would be a follow on date or what would happen next.


will keep you all posted i guess as i am as curious to figure out what if anything happens next and probably none the wiser.

[tim 360]

Neo, I do admire your musings and reflections and I have to agree with some things you posted.
 
Honestly, I agree, I think it is absolutely amazing that some guys will travel half way or a fifth of a way (your case) around the world for a date with a girl he has never met.  Flying WOVO adds it's peculiar own brand of craziness, but guys do that and for some it may work out and for some it's a waste of time and energy and a disappointment.  Kind of trapeze without a net, but you did manage to get some office work done so not a totlal loss.
 
Agree again that I don't think agency girls fully appreciate all a guy goes through just to land on their terra firma--just to have a first date.  Lets change shoes for a moment.  If someone traveled that many miles to come and meet me I would NOT cancel on them unless I was hit by a bus.  It is just plain good manners.  Now if I had a work (scheduling) problem or a child problem, I would still work in a way to meet that person ASAP, afterall there are 24 hours in a day and I'm sure you would have paid her taxi fare, even though it might be a short meet-up.  A 15 minute coffee would have been the very least she could have done and there is the morning, afternoon and the night.
 
To do it once and then do it twice and to then meet but bring the child tells me something here is really askew and I don't mean you.  After you spending 3 days there she finally has time to briefly meet you and brings the child is...I'll let you call it.  I'm not trying to be hard on her but she could have made a better effort.
 
There are so many guys who use agencies to meet that I think a good looking agency girl can be assured that there will always be more men tromping through UA in search of a girl.  The steady stream will continue so they take it for granted that for you it's no big deal or effort.
 
 
 
How was the child?  Healthy?  Probably the 24 hour flu and all cured now?  Well at least you two had the chance to sniff each other out and...we'll see what happens but I don't think she rang any bells for you.
 
I'm sure you'll have more reflections and do post them.  Personally, I think you are burning too much time with this girl and should be on to the next lady or on the next plane home.  I think with your skill-set you would do well finding an interesting girl in the supermarket or--how about the first terp who found you tempting?  Of course you could hit the Opera or Art Museums in Kharkov?  Ballet? Cheers, Tim

[Faux Pas]

Agree again that I don't think agency girls fully appreciate all a guy goes through just to land on their terra firma--just to have a first date.  Lets change shoes for a moment.  If someone traveled that many miles to come and meet me I would NOT cancel on them unless I was hit by a bus.  It is just plain good manners.  Now if I had a work (scheduling) problem or a child problem, I would still work in a way to meet that person ASAP, afterall there are 24 hours in a day and I'm sure you would have paid her taxi fare, even though it might be a short meet-up.  A 15 minute coffee would have been the very least she could have done and there is the morning, afternoon and the night.
 
To do it once and then do it twice and to then meet but bring the child tells me something here is really askew and I don't mean you.  After you spending 3 days there she finally has time to briefly meet you and brings the child is...I'll let you call it.  I'm not trying to be hard on her but she could have made a better effort.
 

I tend to agree with Tim. Of course I've always been a bit more anal after being stood up. Being stood up after having to fly to meet her would be unconscionable IMO. It seems in your situation neo she was a bit too 'matter of factly' when it should have been a pretty big deal that you went to visit her. IMO, she could have at least met you briefly on the first and especially the second date. If for nothing else but for each of you to give the other, "the once over"


I don't understand why bad manners are forgiven so easily. FWIW, I would have been finding alternatives or on my way back home after the first planned date.


neo, being stood up twice likely injected an "odd element" into your eventual meeting. Do you want to see her again for a more romantic date?

[Muzh]

Very slow day here.
 
Neo, two years ago I would normally pay 25 hv for a cab from Independence Sq. to Pokotilovka. I'll be there in three weeks and I'll check it out.
 
Me thinks this lady was "testing" you. Dunno, something about you reaction under "stress" and temper or anything else. Who knows. And maybe I'm totally wrong. Just my POV.
 
Wonder how she would react next time you call her?

[neo]

its a little bit tough to call at the moment why things have not panned out better.


to sit on the fence I can see both sides of the argument, being a young mom it can be hard to secure child care even with family at the last minute, so it could have been a genuine issue for her, that said i do agree with the points that given i had come half way round the world on a WOVO you would have expected her to pull out all the stops to secure at least 30 minutes just to say hello if i had been an important prospect for her - knowing my sisters situation and plenty of other single moms securing a date with a young guy with no baggage is almost lottery ticket odds, doubly so in Ukraine where most guys do not want to know if other mens kids are involved. it could well be as suggested a certain arrogance from a agency girl that she has plenty of prospects so does not feel she has to put any effort in. only the girl in question could know it.


obviously arriving in to the third date attempt my ego was already a bit dented at the first two failed attempts, and the lack of enthusiasm for the third, again to play devils advocate she could have just been tired or had a bad night with the child and mind was elsewhere, but it did not feel to me like someone trying to make their best impression on someone they were pleased to meet for the first time - i certainly did not feel the quality of meeting was well aligned with the quality of our correspondence which was a red flag in itself.


The reasons for this could be legion - it may well be just that on meeting I didn't live up to her notional expectations and she wasn't that in to me - perhaps she has a lot of prospects and was being quite mercurial in the manner in which she dismissed them. perhaps being on the agency is a nice way to get attention but she doesnt have the time or inclination to put in the legwork for a RL relationship and the letters and attention give her the attention she feels she needs without having to commit time or effort into making a relationship work - its easy to speculate.


Certainly i do not feel that the payoff has justified the time or attention expense in visiting her as things stand today. it wasn't so much a date as a 'drive by shooting' in its execution.


the child seemed OK but a bit grouchy, given the age and the humid stormy weather we have it could easily have been something quite minor like a migraine, having looked after my niece i know how these things can happen. in the scheme of things i think thats a side issue really.


i think the big problem is if she is genuine she does not seem to have yet resolved how to put in enough effort to developing out a relationship whilst managing her other commitments, she is an attractive girl and was married quite young so probably got a lot of attention before she became a mom, perhaps it has not yet dawned on her how much of a tough ride it is to secure a man prepared to take on father duties to another mans offspring, if she gets a lot of agency attention perhaps she feels spoiled by that and does not feel any reason why she needs to put in the effort, or as stated above perhaps the letters, chat and attention give her enough attention and the odd meal out when she can fit it in is enough male attention that she doesn't feel like she needs to take things beyond that point.


the fact she hasn't taken any time from a follow up is not really a vote for confidence that this is going anywhere, she could have logged on to chat just to see how i thought things went, and the terp left things as a pretty much closed door so she clearly hadn't indicated anything positive in that regard so as to if i want to see her again its looking pretty doubtful.


without being too harsh i would expect a single mom to work much harder and be more attentive to make things work than a single young woman of her age with no baggage. its a big responsibility to take on her child and since i have plenty of other options as well i would have expected her to work much more to prove why i should sign up for the 'baggage'


to my mind one of these things is at work:


1: arrogance, she gets plenty of attention and doesnt feel she needs to make an effort
2: she gets what she needs from the agency experience and doesnt want to take it to the next level
3: after meeting she just wasn't in to me
4: she maybe feels insecure she can't compete with the other girls so isnt going to bother trying.
5: she has her hands full already with parenting and career and genuinly can't find the time to commit to developing a proper LTR - in which case she probably shouldn't be in the agency but then it might be due to number 2.


i am sure there are plenty more reasons at work.


All said and done, it 'should' work on paper, all the right boxes were ticked to think this was a sensible WOVO prospect (if there ever is such a thing), the costs of participation are well within the normal expenses so i don't suspect odessa style foul play for fiscal gain, but for whatever reason its just not come together at the zero hour.


I am going to 'call the ball' tomorrow. i would expect some sort of follow up feedback before lunch to see what her opinions were on a further meeting or not from the terp, if its all silent on the western front i don't see much point in hanging about and have a flight option for wednesday to bail out.


for sure i won't be repeating the agency or WOVO thing again, while random chance is always at play, i could easily date a girl in this situation in my home country without any headaches so with the prejudice UA guys have against single moms I was without sound arrogant batting a little below par so should have had a much easier time of it, as it happens its been a much tougher call so far, if shes not into me you could put it down to that but i would expect at least a call in from the terp to say she thanked me for meeting but she just wasn't into me.

[neo]

Very slow day here.
 
Neo, two years ago I would normally pay 25 hv for a cab from Independence Sq. to Pokotilovka. I'll be there in three weeks and I'll check it out.
 
Me thinks this lady was "testing" you. Dunno, something about you reaction under "stress" and temper or anything else. Who knows. And maybe I'm totally wrong. Just my POV.
 
Wonder how she would react next time you call her?

from pushkin metro to Caravan was 40 UAH each way for taxi's hailed on the streets, the taxi today was 60 each way but that included the terps ride home as well. she only charged me 250 UAH for terp duties (she was a friend of the first terp who did not charge me anything for my afternoon shopping to Caravan). Given fuel prices have gone up substantially and all taxi's were involved were new japanese or korean cars they seemed OK price wise, last time I was here i did get some fares cheaper but they were in old knackered soviet rotboxes.


I don't really feel anyone was taking liberties. compared with the odessa outing where every meal was more than 4x the price for the same food and the taxi was 5x the rate it seemed like reasonable value.


maybe you are right about the testing, she could well have been seeing how impatient or demanding i would be given the issues with having a child. who can tell, women are mostly crazy.

[Faux Pas]

1: arrogance, she gets plenty of attention and doesnt feel she needs to make an effort
2: she gets what she needs from the agency experience and doesnt want to take it to the next level
3: after meeting she just wasn't in to me
4: she maybe feels insecure she can't compete with the other girls so isnt going to bother trying.
5: she has her hands full already with parenting and career and genuinly can't find the time to commit to developing a proper LTR - in which case she probably shouldn't be in the agency but then it might be due to number 2.

None of these are reasons for bad form or bad manners. From your description of the correspondence, one would at least expect she was looking forward to your arrival and acted appropriately. Working late, sick kid and honestly I thought her excuse on the third would be that she had to do her hair  . Seems she obviously didn't have the level of interest that you did. Are you sure there's good girls at the agency? 

[Boethius]

I agree with Faux Pas.  This woman is not interested in neo.