Economics is a factor too

[Faux Pas]

Of course his gross salary doesn't say much in isolation but with cost of living in his area and how much discretionary income he's left with, it says a lot; like how often can travel and for how long, and how much he can afford once his new wife has relocated. Doing the international romance thing right is not inexpensive even when done on the cheap; emphasis here on "right". If he's as inexperienced as he says he's probably going to take longer to find someone than the average guy and need more trips to be sure.

Or he could do the usual thing which, in all likelihood, will turn pear-shaped and play a bit of fast and loose Russian roulette.

Well let's expand just a bit.    I didn't note that he said what his particular part of the country is. Attempting to guess is a moot point. It doesn't matter anyway. We are talking a 41 year old guy, presumably collage educated working in the safe, secure government sector to where he is closing in on 17, 18 -20 years service? A man who hasn't dated much by his own admittance. He didn't mention any expensive vices so it is relatively safe to assume on 40K a year he has had a degree of expendable income. If he lived at home during this time he probably had a lot of extra cash. Did he save it say 5-8K per year in addition to his 401K? He probably socked away 150-100K. Government employee easily qualified for a low cost FHA loan for his new home and had to put up 25K of his savings leaving him somewhere in the neighborhood of 75-100K he's still bank rolling. IMHO, 75-100 K accessible cash will get him through the minefield if he uses his wit and minds his P's and Q's. Should I continue in this vein or do you get my meaning?


The thrust of my statement being, it's pretty condescending as well as wrong pointing the guy to the Phillipines because "some" doesn't believe he earns enough money to travel a required amount of time for a relationship. There is no way one could make that determination on the little info provided by van IMHO. He is interested in FSUW I assume, why else did he find this forum?


With that said, van, it can be quite costly as mentioned even to do it on the cheap, which hardly anyone would recommend. I think a man could in fact do it on a 40K per year salary if he has adequate means and vacation time. I'll say it again, "it isn't how much you make, it's what you do with what you make".

[BC]

The thrust of my statement being, it's pretty condescending as well as wrong pointing the guy to the Phillipines because "some" doesn't believe he earns enough money to travel a required amount of time for a relationship. There is no way one could make that determination on the little info provided by van IMHO. He is interested in FSUW I assume, why else did he find this forum?

Economics is a factor²

Yes, a man of modest means might be able to find a woman in FSU to marry, but in the end may become unhappy because the values and dynamics dramatically change thereafter.  A woman, any woman FSU or not will push the envelope.  A complete lifestyle can change.  A man of 41 years is pretty much set in his ways.

With a FSU woman, it's pretty much dumped into your lap whereas locally a relationship is 'eased' into.

I'm not saying one should stay unmarried, but the closer to home the better IMHO.  Bought a home and lost 80 lbs.. quite an achievement..  Goals are great, but don't get impatient.. the rest will come in due time.

Just a matter of deciding whether to swim upstream or downstream. 

There are plenty of FSU women in the US.  Test the waters first.

[Muzh]

Yes, a man of modest means might be able to find a woman in FSU to marry, but in the end may become unhappy because the values and dynamics dramatically change thereafter. 
 

I'm trying to understand te last part. You mind expanding a bit? I'm reading that because of his modest means the RW will not be happy?

[Muzh]

Hi mods. This thread has taken a life of its own. How about spliting this into a a new one?

[Faux Pas]

Hi mods. This thread has taken a life of its own. How about spliting this into a a new one?

Good point. Done, let'er rip 

[BC]

I'm trying to understand te last part. You mind expanding a bit? I'm reading that because of his modest means the RW will not be happy?

No, just that his lifestyle will be drastically disrupted, possibly resulting in his unhappiness. I am quite sure that the woman involved will strive for her happiness.. -whether she gets it or not will be the deciding factor.

[Faux Pas]

Economics is a factor²

Yes, a man of modest means might be able to find a woman in FSU to marry, but in the end may become unhappy because the values and dynamics dramatically change thereafter.  A woman, any woman FSU or not will push the envelope.  A complete lifestyle can change.  A man of 41 years is pretty much set in his ways.

May? May not as well. Too much projection and conjecture here BC

With a FSU woman, it's pretty much dumped into your lap whereas locally a relationship is 'eased' into.

Nowhere did I say dude should be a one week wonder. I only object to the assumptions that he should restrain himself because of his 40K per year salary. Why I object is because 40K isn't quite poverty level in most areas of the country. I know many people who live a fairly comfortable existence on less and even manage to save. Now if he stated 20K per year I possibly would tend to side with some of you as to "can he afford it" aspect

I'm not saying one should stay unmarried, but the closer to home the better IMHO.  Bought a home and lost 80 lbs.. quite an achievement..  Goals are great, but don't get impatient.. the rest will come in due time.

Just a matter of deciding whether to swim upstream or downstream. 

He has set goals and achieved them. He could achieve this one as well

There are plenty of FSU women in the US.  Test the waters first.

There is an alternative he should consider.


IMO, anyone who has to saddle themselves with debt just to go, meet and eventually bring back a woman/wife is making a grave mistake. If one doesn't have the disposable income to make the many trips required to build and grow a relationship, they are in fact pissing into the wind. Not only before but, during and after marriage. Having a good credit score can fool a lot of men into thinking they are something that they aren't in this pursuit FTR I would strongly advise not to do it. But it doesn't mean one can't.

[Muzh]

No, just that his lifestyle will be drastically disrupted, possibly resulting in his unhappiness. I am quite sure that the woman involved will strive for her happiness.. -whether she gets it or not will be the deciding factor.

You see, this is where I was confused. He is looking to change his lifestyle and has taken some steps anticipating these changes: lost a lot of weight (way to go Dallas) and bought a house. How do you anticipate any other changes are going to make him unhappy? If I read the guy correctly, he is calling (actually yelling) for those changes. I see him in a new stage of his life loving it every minute of it. He just needs a loving wife and mother of his children.

[Misha]

No, just that his lifestyle will be drastically disrupted, possibly resulting in his unhappiness. I am quite sure that the woman involved will strive for her happiness.. -whether she gets it or not will be the deciding factor.

Yes, she will strive for happiness, but fortunately women define and achieve happiness differently. What is happiness to one may be misery to another.

[GQBlues]

More often than not, when we start to discuss the economic side of this affair, we often get into nothing but the Cinderella shoe syndrome. One size does not fit all...
 
Based solely on my experience, considering what I did and what I spent money on before, during, and after, keeping in mind that *I* have an established *set of criteria and standard way of doing things* - there's no possible way I could have done this even with a $49,999.99 annual income. No way.
 
But that's me, and that's the standard I've established for myself. Having 'read' what the OP had done with *his* life, based on his current earning (the ability to buy a home with that income is HUGE) capacity, I know *I* can't even imagine doing what he did.
 
Having said that, can he do this pursuit with his current income? Based on my standard and my experiences, I can't see it happening. But then, I have a hard time trying to 'lose' 5 pounds let alone 80, man! LOL, I can't even begin to imagine losing half that much....
 
Obviously the OP is working, had been working, with an established set of faculties/criteria and standard differently than I do. Even compared to many, or most of the people in this venture...but that doesn't really amount to concluding he can't do this with what he have today...AFAIK, the guy had done what many cannot even imagine - 'nuff said.
 
But then I started thinking about the other side of the equation - the gal. He mentioned he's looking for someone around late 20s/early 30s.
 
That gave me cause to pause, but even then I easily connected a current situation with a couple we entertain with these days. He, 40, making roughly $51K - she, 29. One kid. This woman is very happy with hubby despite the fact they don't really have much. As a matter of fact, they watch their money so tight they've expended a good amount of time moving to an apartment here in LA where they only need to pay a $1,100.00 rent. That amount basically rent you a 2-BR not-so-good apartment unit in a not-so-good (not skidrow) locality in LA. But the woman is happy and madly in love with the hubby. They even get to go bowling/dinner with us on occasion and pays for a babysitter everytime. I'm not kidding when I say, this couple is so frugal they actually take home those soy sauce/sugar packets you get from restaurants..
 
I will reside in the camp that all things considered, men are better off with women of the same culture, and vice versa; and it has very little to o with money. If one really need not trek anywhere to find a good woman, then why do so....But beyond that, and he's proven he can do what many can't even imagine doing...he at least deserve to give it a try. As long as he stays alert and doesn't abandon his instincts.
 
If he goes forth with this pursuit, I only hope he's fortright with the woman who catches his interest. Fortright with each other.

[Turboguy]

Personally I think the numbers that represent someone's income are meaningless by themselves.   Where I live a single guy could live pretty comfortably and bank some money on $ 25,000 - 30,000 a year.  Of course it is more than where you live.  I saw one family who always had money problems.  He was a brain surgeon and she was a heart surgeon.  Just the utility bills for their house would be more than most peoples income around here.
 
Here you can get a nice apartment for $ 450 a month, food a couple of hundred (we spend that or less for the two of us)  Car, utilities, clothes, another $ 600.00  It wouldn't be hard for someone to lead a decent life for what amounts to the poverty level. 
 
Location and personal spending habits are the key things and they are hard for an outsider to judge.  People tend to adapt their spending habits to thier income and someone who always runs in the red will do so no matter how large thier income gets. Someone who is a saver will still save even if thier income drops.

[BC]

May? May not as well. Too much projection and conjecture here BC

Yes, but in general I think most women interested in WM are likely not thinking frugal.  Sure there are exceptions and great if you find a frugal woman as well as beautiful, young and family oriented.

Nowhere did I say dude should be a one week wonder. I only object to the assumptions that he should restrain himself because of his 40K per year salary. Why I object is because 40K isn't quite poverty level in most areas of the country. I know many people who live a fairly comfortable existence on less and even manage to save. Now if he stated 20K per year I possibly would tend to side with some of you as to "can he afford it" aspect

Lets take a 'hypothetical' 40k gross.. isn't that around 30k or so net?  10K a year paying for house, leaving 20K for car, food, etc.

Now figure in multiple trips, marrying a woman likely with child and desires for another.  One mouth goes to 4.  Add a second car and all that baby stuff, not to mention insurance etc.  I agree a single with 1.5k disposable per month is doing ok.. but a growing family with occasional trips back to visit the folks at home?  Sure at some point she might be able to work, but don't count on it.

Too close for comfort IMHO.. but guess that's just me.

He has set goals and achieved them. He could achieve this one as well

As with 'may', 'could' is also a wide word.  He has achieved some high bar goals which is great, but don't forget his achievements were based on his own discipline and efforts.  One thing in life I have learned is that I cannot control those around me to the extent I can control myself.  All I can realistically do is keep expectations low and nudge here and there to make clear my viewpoints in an acceptable manner.  We're talking family not Army recruits.

There is an alternative he should consider.

Yes, I think dating FSU women already in the US would give a good idea and experience with their aspirations/delusions etc.  More WYSIWYG in the medium and long term.

IMO, anyone who has to saddle themselves with debt just to go, meet and eventually bring back a woman/wife is making a grave mistake. If one doesn't have the disposable income to make the many trips required to build and grow a relationship, they are in fact pissing into the wind. Not only before but, during and after marriage. Having a good credit score can fool a lot of men into thinking they are something that they aren't in this pursuit FTR I would strongly advise not to do it. But it doesn't mean one can't.

Can't agree with you more!  Much better to have considerable financial padding.. - better to budget more than one plans for than end up short.  All in all, I figure I actually spent twice what I thought would be necessary and had already met my to be wife.

[BC]

You see, this is where I was confused. He is looking to change his lifestyle and has taken some steps anticipating these changes: lost a lot of weight (way to go Dallas) and bought a house. How do you anticipate any other changes are going to make him unhappy? If I read the guy correctly, he is calling (actually yelling) for those changes. I see him in a new stage of his life loving it every minute of it. He just needs a loving wife and mother of his children.

Muzh,

I see a great difference between self improvement and change, especially when others are involved.

[BC]

Personally I think the numbers that represent someone's income are meaningless by themselves.   Where I live a single guy could live pretty comfortably and bank some money on $ 25,000 - 30,000 a year.  Of course it is more than where you live.  I saw one family who always had money problems.  He was a brain surgeon and she was a heart surgeon.  Just the utility bills for their house would be more than most peoples income around here.
 
Here you can get a nice apartment for $ 450 a month, food a couple of hundred (we spend that or less for the two of us)  Car, utilities, clothes, another $ 600.00  It wouldn't be hard for someone to lead a decent life for what amounts to the poverty level. 
 
Location and personal spending habits are the key things and they are hard for an outsider to judge.  People tend to adapt their spending habits to thier income and someone who always runs in the red will do so no matter how large thier income gets. Someone who is a saver will still save even if thier income drops.

TG,

I note that you often expound on how others can do it.  But what about your direct experience?  Did it not take upwards of 100k and 10 years to get to where you are today?  I am sure others with your financial and time resources would have a decent chance and maybe be able to live frugally thereafter.

[BC]

I will reside in the camp that all things considered, men are better off with women of the same culture, and vice versa; and it has very little to o with money. If one really need not trek anywhere to find a good woman, then why do so....But beyond that, and he's proven he can do what many can't even imagine doing...he at least deserve to give it a try. As long as he stays alert and doesn't abandon his instincts.
 
If he goes forth with this pursuit, I only hope he's fortright with the woman who catches his interest. Fortright with each other.

Yes, I'm with you.  Someone in those shoes should set aside an investment risk limit, both monetary and in time and stick with it.  When the budgeted resources disappear without result in-hand then chock it up to experience and move on to more reasonable goals.  I'll tip my hat to any man who can do that.

Experience is not a failure, following emotions and hormones into disaster is.

[Faux Pas]

Yes, but in general I think most women interested in WM are likely not thinking frugal.  Sure there are exceptions and great if you find a frugal woman as well as beautiful, young and family oriented.

True but, most women interested in a WM aren't even living the lifestyle 40K per year provides. The old saying of mothers to daughters  "it's just as easy to fall in love with a rich man as a poor man" has some truth to it but still theres plenty of women willing to live a modest lifestyle for love or other securities.

Lets take a 'hypothetical' 40k gross.. isn't that around 30k or so net?  10K a year paying for house, leaving 20K for car, food, etc.

Now figure in multiple trips, marrying a woman likely with child and desires for another.  One mouth goes to 4.  Add a second car and all that baby stuff, not to mention insurance etc.  I agree a single with 1.5k disposable per month is doing ok.. but a growing family with occasional trips back to visit the folks at home?  Sure at some point she might be able to work, but don't count on it.

Too close for comfort IMHO.. but guess that's just me.

His salary might remain the same or might not. She might eventually work or she might not. Too many variables there to formulate any discussion on it. I know many people who work everyday and manage to survive on much less than the OPs 40K. Many of those are at or near the poverty level. It can be done as I see it all the time. Is it for me, no. I wouldn't consider or even entertain the thought.


I have lived that particular situation for a number of years in the past, raised two kids and put them through college. I remember at the time thinking there was no way I could pull that off. I am amazed sometimes at what is possible with the proper determination and sheer will.

Can't agree with you more!  Much better to have considerable financial padding.. - better to budget more than one plans for than end up short.  All in all, I figure I actually spent twice what I thought would be necessary and had already met my to be wife.

During the process of which I met my wife, I realized I was very lucky. While I gave the expense side some fleeting thoughts, it never dictated how or when I did what I did. I never had a "that's too expensive moment" and I consider myself very lucky in that regard. Although, if I had, I don't think it would have stopped me. Perhaps just slowed me down somewhat.

[Muzh]

Can't agree with you more!  Much better to have considerable financial padding.. - better to budget more than one plans for than end up short.  All in all, I figure I actually spent twice what I thought would be necessary and had already met my to be wife.

You know, walking from the garage to my office today I saw the following bumper sticker: "Good girls never made history." Something akin this guy taking a chance or not.
 
You advice him to play it safe while I tell him to go jump in with the sharks.
 
As I see it, he plays it safe and that's all he will accomplish; nothing.
 
Now, keep in mind we count for beans. He is the one making the decision.

[tfcrew]

This reminds me of the [mammoth] thread that KenC started way back when........

Money Changes Everything
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=6728.0

[Turboguy]

TG,

I note that you often expound on how others can do it.  But what about your direct experience?  Did it not take upwards of 100k and 10 years to get to where you are today?  I am sure others with your financial and time resources would have a decent chance and maybe be able to live frugally thereafter.

Well actually I think it was more like 13 years and $ 125,000 - $ 150,000 of course most guys are going to find success much faster and at less expense.
 
If I expand on how other guys can do it then it probably goes along with the attitude I have always had about things that were important to me.  I never particularly believed in deciding if I could or could not do something.  I always believed in deciding what in life was really important to me and then figuring what I had to do to accomplish that.
 
As far as my time and financial resources you may be overestimating them.  I have always set my income as low as I could, prefering to leave as much operating capital as I could for my business.  My income during much of my searching time was not all that much more than we are talking about.   When I decided to get very serious and was flying back and forth every time the wind blew I had made that my priority.  My business did suffer from it so my time resourses were also not all that good, I just did what I had to do.
 
Personally I just think if someone wants to do something bad enough they will find a way and I see enough RW who don't lead a lavish lifestyle to think that there are women who care about finding a good man more than they do about finding a lavish lifestyle. 
 
I see lot of my wifes friends whose husbands income is in the ranges we are talking about.  One who has been married to a woman from Belarus for 6-7 years told me his income was $ 26,000 a year, still he manages to drive a new suv and take a caribbean vacation each year.

[Kuna]

Can we agree it's potentially expensive and potentially VERY risky. We can also agree it's certainly not inexpensive.

Though Those blindly encouraging the guy are being irresponsible... But depending on the decisions he makes he may actually pull it off.

If he goes chasing hot babes and short skirts he's going to get eaten alive... But not all fsuw are like that. Age range will definitely be a factor too. If I were in his position I wouldn't consider anyone under mid-thirties... But of course risks during pregnancy decrease increase with age.

No idea of social security schemes in the USA but in Australia someone on minimum wage gets BIG government benefits that would bring them up to equal with an income circa $55k.

Kuna

[GregfromGa]

Can we agree it's potentially expensive and potentially VERY risky. We can also agree it's certainly not inexpensive.

Though blindly encouraging the guy are being irresponsible... But depending on the decisions he makes he may actually pull it off.

If he goes chasing hot babes and short skirts he's going to get eaten alive... But not all fsuw are like that. Age range will definitely be a factor too. If I were in his position I wouldn't consider anyone under mid-thirties... But of course risks during pregnancy decrease.

No idea of social security schemes in the USA but in Australia someone on minimum wage gets BIG government benefits that would bring them up to equal with an income circa $55k.

Kuna

This pretty much hits the nail on the head. It would be so easy for the ole boy to scroll the profiles and picture himself with beautiful Luda. In the meantime beautiful Luda is just really wanting another pair of those $300 pointy shoes that I have warned you guys so much about over the years. I think he could be happy with the right girl. I think there have been instances throughout history where guys married hot RW/UW and there wasnt problems. If he could do a tour that might be good if he has the time but he'll need a good wingman to snap him back to reality at times.

[Turboguy]

That is probably one of the best posts in this thread Kuna.  Those of us who tell him it can be done are probably giving bad advice and those who say it can't are probably also giving bad advice.   We don't really know him well enough to say.   If he were asking about if it was feasible to take a vacation to Europe few of us would say no.   As I recall Kuna's story it was basically taking a vacation to Ukraine to check out his heritage and looking for a wife while he was there.  He met his dream girl in one trip.  For me, it took many, many trips.   Many women in the FSU are very high maintenance, others are very frugal.   He likely will not pick his bride from the home page of a high profile dating site.  There are lots of women willing to marry a foreigner with the plan to live a good life they could not get at home.   There are others who just want a good man who will love them and care about them.  Of the FSU women my wife has made friends here with only one leads a somewhat affluent lifestyle.  The rest just lead a normal life like most people in my area and a few have had worse than average lives.   You may need to be affluent to pluck a model quality hot woman from the home page of sites who is 25 years younger than you are but not to marry a good woman who can make you happy.   


Probably it will depend on his resolve and how realistic he is in his search.

[Muzh]

I bet you he can find a smoking hot 30 something (relative to the local talent) that is dying to marry and have children. All she needs is a steady anchor.
 
Go for it Van.

[Faux Pas]

Can we agree it's potentially expensive and potentially VERY risky. We can also agree it's certainly not inexpensive.

Absolutely. Who's denied that?

Though blindly encouraging the guy are being irresponsible... But depending on the decisions he makes he may actually pull it off.

If he goes chasing hot babes and short skirts he's going to get eaten alive... But not all fsuw are like that.

I suspect you might be short changing Van and the advice quite a bit. I didn't and didn't see any blind encouraging. He asked a fairly basic question and got answers akin to asking for the time and getting instructions on building a watch.


 

Age range will definitely be a factor too. If I were in his position I wouldn't consider anyone under mid-thirties... But of course risks during pregnancy decrease.

Agreed

No idea of social security schemes in the USA but in Australia someone on minimum wage gets BIG government benefits that would bring them up to equal with an income circa $55k.

Not the case here but, those who chose welfare do much better than a minimum wage earner. It can easily equate to a 30-40K a year and sometimes even a car to drive

[Faux Pas]

Generally speaking, reading bonehead advice in a venture as this gives me the woolies and I don't mind being the first one to call BS on it. A situation such as Van I believe does cause some pause for thought. He seems a man capable of making and attaining his life's goals. He's here seeking good information and found it. Pro and con. I already stated I wouldn't do it based on 40K a year but, I do believe it could be done. No doubt in my mind it will all depend on the individual and the man that can do it, is most likely a much better man than us high fluting condescending SOBs IMHO