Economics is a factor too

[BC]

I have lived that particular situation for a number of years in the past, raised two kids and put them through college. I remember at the time thinking there was no way I could pull that off. I am amazed sometimes at what is possible with the proper determination and sheer will.

I also.. barely a pot to piss in and a bicycle for transportation.  Wife, two kids and one on the way.  They were actually fun times.  Day job delivering for a furniture store and nights working at a bar. But I was 25, my wife 24 and each had fallback positions. I was the 'immigrant' per se as this was Germany.. but then again Europe was my home for 22 of those years.

But I was 25, my wife 24 and each had fallback positions.  There would be no broken immigration hurdles, each with little to ask of the other monetarily, no homes to split or fear of not having a roof or bed.  Yes those days, today, seem somewhat reckless.. immortality of youth and all.   I guess what I am trying to say is that there is a time and place for everything, but as we grow older there seems to be so much more to loose if we try to act as teenagers again.  Does that make some kind of sense?

Well actually I think it was more like 13 years and $ 125,000 - $ 150,000 of course most guys are going to find success much faster and at less expense.
 
If I expand on how other guys can do it then it probably goes along with the attitude I have always had about things that were important to me.  I never particularly believed in deciding if I could or could not do something.  I always believed in deciding what in life was really important to me and then figuring what I had to do to accomplish that.
 
As far as my time and financial resources you may be overestimating them.  I have always set my income as low as I could, prefering to leave as much operating capital as I could for my business.  My income during much of my searching time was not all that much more than we are talking about.   When I decided to get very serious and was flying back and forth every time the wind blew I had made that my priority.  My business did suffer from it so my time resourses were also not all that good, I just did what I had to do.
 
Personally I just think if someone wants to do something bad enough they will find a way and I see enough RW who don't lead a lavish lifestyle to think that there are women who care about finding a good man more than they do about finding a lavish lifestyle. 
 
I see lot of my wifes friends whose husbands income is in the ranges we are talking about.  One who has been married to a woman from Belarus for 6-7 years told me his income was $ 26,000 a year, still he manages to drive a new suv and take a caribbean vacation each year.

TG,

I can identify.  Wasn't that quite a luxury to be able to tell the real world to go to hell, take a loss financially and not have to worry about where the money for the ticket needed to come from or how it could be paid back?  That's a very different starting point.

Yes, you.. I.. and some others here can 'want to do something bad enough' and get away with it.  Others need to really take a close look at what they are doing.. which is hard to do with scrotum for eyelids.  I don't care how sharp your pencil is, in the end it's worthless.. sorta like when gambling, easy to overdo.

We also know quite a few couples that end up on the lower end of the economic scales.  Most are doing quite ok also, but with 10 or so couples age difference is negligent for 8 of them, all young folk and the remaining two are disparate but with higher incomes.    Only one couple 'met on the internet' with the rest meeting either in the country or while visiting other countries either in military service or working in FSU.

Can we agree it's potentially expensive and potentially VERY risky. We can also agree it's certainly not inexpensive.

Though blindly encouraging the guy are being irresponsible... But depending on the decisions he makes he may actually pull it off.

Agree... but there are no certainties of 'pulling it off'.. resolve may be a good or bad thing all considered. Care to toss a coin?

If he could do a tour that might be good if he has the time but he'll need a good wingman to snap him back to reality at times.

First trip overseas?  First passport?.. more than a wingman needed... how bout an angel?

Probably it will depend on his resolve and how realistic he is in his search.

Realistic is staying home... Reality will never match the fantasy.

I bet you he can find a smoking hot 30 something (relative to the local talent) that is dying to marry and have children. All she needs is a steady anchor.
 
Go for it Van.

Yes, he should go for it.. after all the hook is set.  But he should also know when to quit.  That's my bottom line.

[Daveman]

...

Yes, you.. I.. and some others here can 'want to do something bad enough' and get away with it.  Others need to really take a close look at what they are doing.. which is hard to do with scrotum for eyelids.

 


now that is hilarious.  Those par(tes)ticular ocular accoutrements do tend to lend a less than optimal perception of reality.

Realistic is staying home... Reality will never match the fantasy.

Yes, he should go for it.. after all the hook is set.  But he should also know when to quit.  That's my bottom line.

I don't really disagree with you BC.  I think that there is a metamorphosis at some point in life from wild risk takers to asset protectors.  With that change comes both positives and negatives.  Less likelihood of losing everything through highly risky ventures, but also less gratification and thrill of life.  Necessarily so with the responsibility of family already in place, however, the OP, in actuality, is responsible only for himself at the moment.   As long as encumbering himself with the liability of massive debt in this pursuit isn't part of his equation (though even that would still be his risk and choice), I see no reason why he shouldn't take his shot at what he wants -- armed with knowledge as opposed to, somewhat oxymoronic, real delusions of fantasy.

[BC]

I see no reason why he shouldn't take his shot at what he wants -- armed with knowledge as opposed to, somewhat oxymoronic, real delusions of fantasy.

Dave,

Agree!.. with the caveat of knowing when to stop.. that's the crux of the matter, but one others fall in to time and time again.

He should get his passport, buy a ticket, have a load of fun somewhere in FSU.. I'm all for it.. but the very last of his expectations should be to find some woman to bring home to mamma.

[GQBlues]

Many seem to extrapolate this person's chances against the idea that the makeshift of a typical MOBer is someone who is a ladies' man, well-travelled, rich and whatever else folks want to portray the silliness here.
 
Fact is, so many of the men who travel to places like the FSU hover closer to our society's socially inept. So far this guy had shown deeper resolve and better sense of planning than many who've graced the pages of dating message boards before. Moreover, not too many newbies ever come here, introduce themselves AND post their photo on their very first post. That in itself shows me a lot of this person's character.
 
AFAIK, the guy had made great strides in making the right preparations in his ambition to start a family. Having done that, I'm at a loss as to what gives some of you the impression somehow the guy doesn't have what it takes to succeed in a pursuit so many folks who'd displayed far more careless disposition before him and succeeded?
 
Fact is, he found RWD, pointed out a few things about the search which to me indicates he's been doing some reading and due diligence regarding this pursuit. I thought RWD, and the like, exist to provide assistance to anyone asking for guidance and information and not receive some self-serving 'only guys like me can get this done' proclamation.
 
No one here as of yet had told this guy to blindly go where slobbing doughboys had gone before.
 
He came here for guidance in his search for a partner in FSU, not for everyone to measure his chances and character based solely on a forty thousand dollar hunch.

[BC]

Many seem to extrapolate this person's chances against the idea that the makeshift of a typical MOBer is someone who is a ladies' man, well-travelled, rich and whatever else folks want to portray the silliness here.
 

GQ,

Nothing at all to extrapolate.. chances are always 50/50.  Either it works or it does not - a fact that will never change.

[Faux Pas]

 
No one here as of yet had told this guy to blindly go where slobbing doughboys had gone before.
 

Thats just funny right there 

[GQBlues]

GQ,

Nothing at all to extrapolate.. chances are always 50/50.  Either it works or it does not - a fact that will never change.

Understood BC, and maybe just maybe, we can at least try to increase his chances of success by helping him along his chosen pursuit?
 
I just think the guy had shown greater propensity of understanding the things he needed to do with his self and lot than the masses that had gone before him. It is hard for me to believe, having accomplished what he had for himself, that he'll be one who's short on reasoned and rational thought process...is all.
 
Like you, I've always said there's a lot to be said in casting a wider social net when in search for the proverbial Ms. Right. The closer to shore the better. But, and there will always be that but...

[Jooky]

What about the chance of finding a woman that's a help economically?
 
I don't think it's unrealistic these days. I think about all the women I've met in Moscow and Novosibirsk, in their early 30s, never married or single mothers that have good careers, own property and wouldn't have a problem finding work in the US or Europe (in fact quite a few that I know have done so of their own accord).
 
Strange as it may seem, I think these type of women in general would be less of a financial burden than a 'western' woman in a similar situation, who is more likely to have debt at this stage. Any thoughts? (Just throwing out a different perspective).

[Jooky]

Realistic is staying home... Reality will never match the fantasy.

My experiences (especially recent ones) have usually exceeded my expectations. Maybe I need dream bigger? 

[BC]

My experiences (especially recent ones) have usually exceeded my expectations. Maybe I need dream bigger? 

Yes, I remember your TR's well.. quit a fun time it seems. I'm even envious at times.

BTW when did you get married?  Did I miss something?

[Rubicon]

Van bought a house, lost 80 lbs, and saves 10K a year.  I think he has more than enough initiative and good common sense for this adventure.  In the end it is his decision and he should go for it.

[Turboguy]

I think he should go for it too!

One big plus for him since he doesn't have a lot of experience I would guess his confidence level with women could use a boost and a trip or two there will do wonders for his confidence and self esteem.

[Rubicon]

I think he should go for it too!

One big plus for him since he doesn't have a lot of experience I would guess his confidence level with women could use a boost and a trip or two there will do wonders for his confidence and self esteem.

As you mentioned before he might consider taking a trip with Jack in order to get his feet wet and boost his confidence.  Of course that is his decision to make.

[Jooky]

BTW when did you get married?  Did I miss something?

No ball & chain for me yet! I am very happily committed though...
 
I just don't agree with the 'staying at home' advice. 40+ and wanting kids isn't the best situation for finding women (I'm in the same boat) and sitting at home meeting people normally (ocassional get together with friends, whatever) at our age leads to nowhere fast. If you want something to happen, you need to get out there, whether he expands his search across the US or across the world, the key is getting getting out there, making connections and meeting women, any and every which way that presents itself.

[BC]

I think he should go for it too!

One big plus for him since he doesn't have a lot of experience I would guess his confidence level with women could use a boost and a trip or two there will do wonders for his confidence and self esteem.

So men with little experience will come back from FSU with an abundance of confidence?

I dunno... sounds kinda fishy to me.

As you mentioned before he might consider taking a trip with Jack in order to get his feet wet and boost his confidence.  Of course that is his decision to make.

Wow.. so lets add it up.

A man with low confidence, apples for a passport and goes to FSU to look for a wife.

Silly.

Sorry.. All the rah rah just doesn't add up.

[Kuna]

Sorry.. All the rah rah just doesn't add up.

This is what concerns me for him....

I don't think it's impossible but I think it's a stretch.  If he was able to consciously sacrifice enough money for two trips and call it quits if he's not met a genuine, mutually interested woman by then he could look upon this as an adventure - and a great experience... whether he ends up marryng or not.

I would hate to see him scammed, or waste money he doesn't have, just because he listened to a bunch of cheerleaders who think "anything is possible."

I don't think it's impossible...  but the risks are accentuated when one does not have the money to lose.




Here's a thought...  does he know any Russians/Ukrainians at home that would/could introduce him to a friend of family member back home?

Meeting via an introduction could reduce the risks dramatically IF he trusted his local Russians/Ukrainians as one normally would of friends.

[Turboguy]

So men with little experience will come back from FSU with an abundance of confidence?

Sorry.. All the rah rah just doesn't add up.

Absolutely BC!   Looking for a wife in the FSU will help someone with little experience and low confidence more than spending twice that amount of money laying on a shrink's couch pouring out how unloved he is.   Personally this is one of the areas where Jack's tour would work especially well since you are meeting women right and left and have Jack pushing you a bit and helping guide you.
 
BC, if you don't believe this just look at Jack.  When he started his business he was a shy, mousy, quiet guy with low self confidence and now after tour after tour after tour he is the ultimate Alpha male.   
 
The American dating scene can be brutal on someone's self esteem.  You can spend a ton of money and still have a hard time meeting women and a really hard time meeting quality women.   The more you list yourself on Match and get no responses, the more you contact ladies and don't hear back or get a "no thanks" the less self confidence you have.  Self confidence is the biggest factor in having success with women.  I have seen guys who were out and out ugly, had low paying jobs and nothing going for them who could get all the women they want.  The reason is because they believe they can. 
 
The guy we are talking about is probably well above average in looks, has great drive and determination and would be a good catch for a woman.  All he needs to do is start believing that and his life will change.

[Turboguy]

Economics is a factor²

There are plenty of FSU women in the US.  Test the waters first.

I tend to think much the same as Kuna.  It isn't going to be easy for him on his income but if he really wants to do it then it is not impossible.
 
The key to being able to afford this venture is disposable income.  There are lots of people who make $ 200,000 a year but spend $ 225,000.  Our OP says he can save 10 grand a year on his income.  He has enough disposable income to make a couple of trips a year if he chooses to.  He can probably afford it more than the person who makes 200 grand and spend 225 grand a year.
 
I have met on a face to face basis probably 8 people from the forums.  There is one I did not get to know enough to have any idea of his financial condition.  Exactly one of those 7 that remain had a sizable net worth and income (that happened to be our  infamous former member jb)  Of the rest of the forum people I have met, most get along ok but I don't think any can save 10 grand a year and a few really struggle.  The very first forum person I met was someone from the former RWG.   He had a fiancee from S. P. who at one time had been a very beautiful woman and was still pretty despite the fact that her former husband had slashed up her face badly with a knife so she had a lot of scars.  The former husband by the way was serving a life sentance in Russia for killing a man.  Anyway, this was a really nice guy with a couple of the cutest kids you could find who had a fiancee and whose biggest worry was that his income was below the poverty level and his worry was not if he could afford to marry her but how to get past the regualtions about 25% above the poverty level. 
 
Of the half dozen or so local AM-RW marriages that I know of only one strikes me as being able to save 10 grand a year. 
 
Lots of people in worse financial shape do it and if he really wants to do it bad enough I don't think he will find it to be impossible.  I would agree with difficult and he needs to make it a priority and stay focused on his goals.
 
I do think that for the most part dating RW in America is not all that different than dating AW.   They change when they are here for a while and find themselves in big demand.

[Jumper]

What about the chance of finding a woman that's a help economically?
 
I don't think it's unrealistic these days. I think about all the women I've met in Moscow and Novosibirsk, in their early 30s, never married or single mothers that have good careers, own property and wouldn't have a problem finding work in the US or Europe (in fact quite a few that I know have done so of their own accord).
 
Strange as it may seem, I think these type of women in general would be less of a financial burden than a 'western' woman in a similar situation, who is more likely to have debt at this stage. Any thoughts? (Just throwing out a different perspective).

Jooky.
I wouldn't  presume the odds.
However I certainly know a 33 yo RW (Moscow resident), who comes to visit mutual  friends in my area often , that is looking for a guy in Moscow. She hasnt had much luck..
 she wants to settle down and have a family.. she would be open to relocation but isnt looking for that.
Has a good job, and her own place there in moscow thats paid for .. she is likely in far better financial shape than most 33 yo single women in the USA dating market..(at least in my area ,few own thier homes outright)
She could easily sell her home there, and buy one in a suburb here outright.
This isnt the only RW i know like this,  many are in this situation.
Could the OP run into this scenario? certainly..!
 
the odds? ?
 ahh we are back to pure speculation again,
but certainly not every RW would be an "expense" ,or take years to assimulate here..
 In this case her job transfers easily, she has relocation finances easily, and  is looking for the average situation,
(normal expectations)  and knows the US, the culture,  and the various situations very well.She been here many times.
 
All that said:
I would think his odds are greater that this venture  would be an initial financial burden , that he needs to prepare for, and be realistic about.
 
I agree with GQ ,
that the OP has taken inventory of what he needed to do, has accomplished a lot towards that, and is far ahead of most guys initially looking into this.
 
I'd advise him to keep researching a bit, asking questions
and  wish him good luck.
 
 
jooky yo mentioning "getting out there" is something
i always felt was a key in this venture for many men.
 
 If this is the act that gets them off the couch, then so be it.
Thats a good thing,as long as they keep their wits about them
and yes, I think  becoming more active in many areas or interests locally , would likely negate the need to travel..
but the main thing is something needs to change, repeating what one has been doing , just isnt likely to provide success.
 
I would enter this more as an *adventure* to see other cultures, meet new people,
snd it will certainly increase your  possibilties from the mere act of being in an airport , far more likely to socially interact than if sitting on a persons own couch..
buit i'd approach it with that mindset ,rather than a
*mission to locate  a wife*.
 

[Faux Pas]

 
jooky yo mentioning "getting out there" is something
i always felt was a key in this venture for many men.
 

Expecting to catch some fish without a hook in the water is IMO insanity 

[Rubicon]

So men with little experience will come back from FSU with an abundance of confidence?

I dunno... sounds kinda fishy to me.

Wow.. so lets add it up.

A man with low confidence, apples for a passport and goes to FSU to look for a wife.

Silly.

Sorry.. All the rah rah just doesn't add up.

You don't know that he has low confidence.  He has shown a lot of initiative in his life recently.  I think he has plenty of confidence.  He is here to get some feedback; what he does with it is up to him.  I suspect that when Van puts his mind to something he accomplishes it.  Losing 80 lbs and purchasing a house and saving 10K a year are all major accomplishments IMO.

[BC]

Absolutely BC!   Looking for a wife in the FSU will help someone with little experience and low confidence more than spending twice that amount of money laying on a shrink's couch pouring out how unloved he is.   Personally this is one of the areas where Jack's tour would work especially well since you are meeting women right and left and have Jack pushing you a bit and helping guide you.
 

Was this your experience?  You've expounded several times on this 'self improvement' deal..  I can only imagine when men return from Jack's tours that these newly acquired powers will make them more popular with the local ladies as well.  Yeah that's a great deal for sure.  I get the feeling though that the US border control easily detects this magick and confiscates it.  Or is it maybe one of the hidden features of the metal detectors in FSU that swipes the 'power' away as you walk through to catch your flight home? 

 
I do think that for the most part dating RW in America is not all that different than dating AW.   They change when they are here for a while and find themselves in big demand.

Isn't that a shame..  after a couple or three of Jack's tours, maybe a little Eduard in the mix he'll land a wife and find himself back at square one in a 'while'??  Obviously many of these FSU women you refer to did not just appear in their present form and attitudes.

You don't know that he has low confidence.

Rubicon,

I never said he did.  IIRC someone else brought that up.

Understood BC, and maybe just maybe, we can at least try to increase his chances of success by helping him along his chosen pursuit?
 
I just think the guy had shown greater propensity of understanding the things he needed to do with his self and lot than the masses that had gone before him. It is hard for me to believe, having accomplished what he had for himself, that he'll be one who's short on reasoned and rational thought process...is all.
 
Like you, I've always said there's a lot to be said in casting a wider social net when in search for the proverbial Ms. Right. The closer to shore the better. But, and there will always be that but...

GQ,

No one wants to deny any man a boarding pass on an east bound flight, but think most men just want to find a decent partner regardless of where.  That so many think the only place on this planet to dos so is FSU is simply another 'but..' and little else.

Bottom line is that just getting off the couch and out the door will increase chances of finding a mate 100%.  Why one would want to take the first steps out with a suitcase and ticket to FSU with thoughts of marriage is very puzzling.  This FSUW 'bug' is a drug.  Casting a wider social net involves much more than going on a tour. 

Suggested to one member a while back to find some group with common interests.  He was into dancing, found such a group in FSU and just went.  Had a blast, met women and then disappeared into the sunset.  He either bombed out or just figured out there was really no need for rah rah or tours.. just doing it worked better.  I tend to believe it was the latter, after all it isn't rocket science.

I simply find that getting all worked up over FSU can be so distracting that the obvious is overlooked.

[GQBlues]

GQ,

No one wants to deny any man a boarding pass on an east bound flight, but think most men just want to find a decent partner regardless of where.  That so many think the only place on this planet to dos so is FSU is simply another 'but..' and little else.

Bottom line is that just getting off the couch and out the door will increase chances of finding a mate 100%.  Why one would want to take the first steps out with a suitcase and ticket to FSU with thoughts of marriage is very puzzling.  This FSUW 'bug' is a drug.  Casting a wider social net involves much more than going on a tour. 

Suggested to one member a while back to find some group with common interests.  He was into dancing, found such a group in FSU and just went.  Had a blast, met women and then disappeared into the sunset.  He either bombed out or just figured out there was really no need for rah rah or tours.. just doing it worked better.  I tend to believe it was the latter, after all it isn't rocket science.

I simply find that getting all worked up over FSU can be so distracting that the obvious is overlooked.

You certainly won't get an argument with me on that BC. I can't even imagine why men seem to fully rely on things like Match then make a very broad statement there's no women left to date. 'Get out of the house' is certainly a good start.
 
I'm not sure what it is. Men feign walking up to a woman in their culture within earshot of their distance, but would much rather invest both money, time and energy travelling across the world just to meet women from a different culture and language and then in a very short time, be completely convinced they're be compatible with them. LOL, there's really something....strange in there somewhere.
 
But I digress...
 
There are a ton of social clubs out there for anyone and everyone to participate in. Hiking clubs, travelling clubs, dance clubs, etc...I met a ton of people on Virtual Tourist alone. I signed on not necessarily for the social aspects of things but rather to network with people globally. It's a pretty cool thing to do meeting folks from another country, or foreign folks coming to your city, etc...
 
Anyway, bottom line is, Van is neither me or you. I probably need to walk a mile in his shoes to see things from his perspective, dunno.

[BC]

Anyway, bottom line is, Van is neither me or you. I probably need to walk a mile in his shoes to see things from his perspective, dunno.

True. 

His two introductory posts, resulted in four pages of posts over two thread topics so plenty to chew on for a bit.

He'll figure it out.

[Turboguy]

Was this your experience?  You've expounded several times on this 'self improvement' deal..  I can only imagine when men return from Jack's tours that these newly acquired powers will make them more popular with the local ladies as well.  Yeah that's a great deal for sure.  I get the feeling though that the US border control easily detects this magick and confiscates it.  Or is it maybe one of the hidden features of the metal detectors in FSU that swipes the 'power' away as you walk through to catch your flight home? 

Yes, I would say very much so.  A world of difference.   As far as the border control goes BC, if you can find that canister and clone it you can get very rich.
 

Isn't that a shame.. after a couple or three of Jack's tours, maybe a little Eduard in the mix he'll land a wife and find himself back at square one in a 'while'?? Obviously many of these FSU women you refer to did not just appear in their present form and attitudes.

I wasn't suggesting that he might end up divorced from the RW he meets.  I just think that once a RW has been here for a number of years she changes.  In the FSU a 30+ Y.O. with a child has difficulty finding a good man interested in a real relationship.   Here she would need to carry a baseball bat to beat them off and I do think they become more selective, more materialistic and very different that they were in the FSU.   I am sure that some don't change but I think a lot do.