Red Flags

[noelscot]

…no, not red flags with hammers and sickles on them. Those were put away until us stupid Americans were lulled into a false sense of security, then, Wham!, Lenin will be re-animated with superior Soviet science, break in the White House, eat Obama’s brain, and wreck up the place.
All kidding aside, I thought it would be interesting to hear people’s weird stories about “red flags” that alerted one to a correspondent being a flake, crazy, scammer, etc. Here are some good ones, albeit, probably old-hat….
--correspondent writes weird poems about world domination, but “really” thinks the beauty of life is its unpredictability;
--cannot do voice on Skype/phone because her “parents” might ask questions/get woken up (you see her current husband walking around in the background lol);
--obsessive about whether or not you own cats or dogs;
--sends you weird ultimatums out of the blue when you barely know the person;
--from FSU country, has citizenship in a nice Westernized country like Germany, but is on the Web looking for a man, claims to not be married……..
 
--trying to go back to school. knock, knock. who's there? boo-hoo-hoo send me money.

[Faux Pas]

…no, not red flags with hammers and sickles on them. Those were put away until us stupid Americans were lulled into a false sense of security, then, Wham!, Lenin will be re-animated with superior Soviet science, break in the White House, eat Obama’s brain, and wreck up the place.
All kidding aside, I thought it would be interesting to hear people’s weird stories about “red flags” that alerted one to a correspondent being a flake, crazy, scammer, etc. Here are some good ones, albeit, probably old-hat….
--correspondent writes weird poems about world domination, but “really” thinks the beauty of life is its unpredictability;
--cannot do voice on Skype/phone because her “parents” might ask questions/get woken up (you see her current husband walking around in the background lol);
--obsessive about whether or not you own cats or dogs;
--sends you weird ultimatums out of the blue when you barely know the person;
--from FSU country, has citizenship in a nice Westernized country like Germany, but is on the Web looking for a man, claims to not be married……..
 
--trying to go back to school. knock, knock. who's there? boo-hoo-hoo send me money.

Wow! You're describing some AW I know 


Red flags IMO are a deal killer. One flag is an attention getter. Two flags is red alert. Three flags is ABORT, ABORT.


It confuzzles the poop out of me why some guys don't see them.


I know of stories where a guy saw the flags and pursued anyway. Even worked out for awhile in some cases but, eventual crash and burns.


Sometimes the description from said chap describes red flags when in essence, they are not. Other times the flags are as obvious as a turd in a punch bowl and completely ignored. I guess we see what we want to see

[noelscot]

Wow! You're describing some AW I know 

Cultural relativism is a whole other topic! Don't even get me started.
 
 
I am emotionless and skeptical about the process until the panties are on the floor. 
 
One of my friends and his wife, who went through all of this, advise me...a lot...so I have three sets of eyes looking for red flags. The scams have gotten so elaborate that Yella Kid Weil would be impressed.     

[Faux Pas]

noelscot,


Although it's been a few years, I've walked that minefield and actually came out the other side a better man because of it. As far as the flags and the scams, if you are in general a gullible type dude, you'll fall for them. No amount of help is going to soften that blow. OTOH, if you're an experienced dater at home and tend to think with the big head more than the little and can tell the difference in shyt and shinola, you'll be okay.


I was a WMVO. I just found one "I" had to meet. Do your due diligence. Don't fawn and fall in love with pictures and webcams. They're women just like other women around the world. Don't make excuses and be the gentleman. You'll do fine. Boy meets girl

[noelscot]

I think the whole process is extremely fun, but I can see how some less patient folks could become dissuaded and diffident.
 
Here's another red flag....
 
--she's from Ukraine, but her name doesn't even sound Ukrainian, and other Ukrainians that you know say it is B.S. name.
 
--she slips up in an email and signs as "Natasha." Prior she was "Natalya." lol

[mendeleyev]

--she slips up in an email and signs as "Natasha." Prior she was "Natalya." lol

Correct usage.

Her "saint" name when she was born was given to her at baptism and in this case was taken from Saint Natalya. That is what we Westerners consider as our "first" name. Traditionally the child is named for the Orthodox saint who is celebrated on that date.

Variations of that run from Natalie to Natasha with lots of little names made from those combinations. Natasha is one of many nicknames for her name Natalya.

By the way, the rule on a name is to never assume a nickname until you've been given permission to use it. Therefore I'm guessing that she used Natalya at first and once you've established some rapport she used Natasha--her way of showing you "permission" to use that nickname.

Other nicknames are attached to her name but it would be rude for you to use them first. Wait for her lead on this issue.

Наталья = Natalya
Наташа = Natasha

One and the same.

[mendeleyev]

--she's from Ukraine, but her name doesn't even sound Ukrainian, and other Ukrainians that you know say it is B.S. name.

Not sure what a BS name would be unless it's German or Jewish sounding and unfortunately then sometimes open to discrimination in that culture.

She could also be using a Patronymic. This is common on public venues like Facebook, My Space, etc as it affords a certain amount of protection for the user.

Patronymic names (Russian middle names) are taken from the name of the child's father. If the child is a boy, the middle name will end in either evich, or ovich. If the child is a girl the ending will be ovna, or evna. For example, if the father is named Sergey then her middle name would be Sergeyevna or if his name was Aleksandr (Alexander) then her patronymic would be Aleksandrovna.

I wouldn't necessarily consider a patronymic as a "red flag" early in the relationship but after establishing a comfort level would give her my full name and address and ask for her "family name" and then you'll know her real last name.

My friend Viktoria has a easy to understand page on learning Patronymics: http://www.funrussian.com/page/2/

[noelscot]

I have heard of Baptismal names and patronyms. Thank you for the information.  I run everything past a worldly Russian Lady, too, so no worries. 


Please, others share your red flag stories. 
 

[mendeleyev]

I run everything past a worldly Russian Lady

Good idea. Well, guess that depends on which world she is from. 
Seriously, having local and experienced support is important.

Personally, I think the issue of "scammers" is highly overrated. Use the big head and don't fall in love with photos and those who wish to play games will move on to an easier target.

I have heard of Baptismal names

Just a heads up--call them "Saint names" and there will be no doubt to any native Russian/Ukrainian as to what you're referencing.

[Ranetka]

Here's another red flag....
 
 
--she slips up in an email and signs as "Natasha." Prior she was "Natalya." lol

It's the same name. Just like John and Johnny.

[Ranetka]

--from FSU country, has citizenship in a nice Westernized country like Germany, but is on the Web looking for a man, claims to not be married……..
 

And what's wrong with that?
 
I am a British sitizen, not married and was looking for a man on the Web for about two years. Where is the red flag?

[SANDRO43]

--she slips up in an email and signs as "Natasha." Prior she was "Natalya." lol

IINM, that could also be interpreted as getting less formal and rather friendlier .

[noelscot]

Nope. There was nothing but static on the Interwebs after I politely asked for clarification about the whole name thing.  I've made cultural mistakes before, and usually the ladies are very unrestrained about re-educating me. 
 
 

[noelscot]

And what's wrong with that?
 
I am a British sitizen, not married and was looking for a man on the Web for about two years. Where is the red flag?

Your circumstances are not the same, I would gather. Keep in mind, this red flag was combined with "I cannot talk on phone or skype, because it might awaken my parents/or have them asking questions." Which begs all sorts of questions. Too much suspicious stuff or possible drama for my tastes. 
 
I can just imagine myself jumping out of a bedroom window in Munich after an angry husband chases me with a meat cleaver, yelling in German, then I explain to the Polizei--"No, I do not have my passport. It's back at her place. Where are my clothes? Those are back at her place, too." 

[Anotherkiwi]

...Here's another red flag....
--she slips up in an email and signs as "Natasha." Prior she was "Natalya." lol

Shame that you didn't realise that it was the less formal version of the same name!  However, I did have one that had been writing to me for quite a while (3-4 months?) who suddenly wrote a letter calling me "George" (definitely not my name - not even remotely close) and changed her own name from Lyudmila to (IIRC) Anna!     She also didn't seem to realise that I had a map of St Petersburg (where she supposedly lived), and that I knew the fake address she had given me was a bookshop (which is still there, as I saw each time I visited SPB) and not whatever she had claimed.  For some reason she got really offended when I called her on it and dumped her. 

[Rubicon]

Shame that you didn't realise that it was the less formal version of the same name!  However, I did have one that had been writing to me for quite a while (3-4 months?) who suddenly wrote a letter calling me "George" (definitely not my name - not even remotely close) and changed her own name from Lyudmila to (IIRC) Anna!     She also didn't seem to realise that I had a map of St Petersburg (where she supposedly lived), and that I knew the fake address she had given me was a bookshop (which is still there, as I saw each time I visited SPB) and not whatever she had claimed.  For some reason she got really offended when I called her on it and dumped her. 

Yes I don't really get it why scammers get offended when you bust them.  You would think they would at least sheepishly apologize and move on.

[noelscot]

 
Shame that you didn't realise that it was the less formal version of the same name!  However, I did have one that had been writing to me for quite a while (3-4 months?) who suddenly wrote a letter calling me "George" (definitely not my name - not even remotely close) and changed her own name from Lyudmila to (IIRC) Anna!    She also didn't seem to realise that I had a map of St Petersburg (where she supposedly lived), and that I knew the fake address she had given me was a bookshop (which is still there, as I saw each time I visited SPB) and not whatever she had claimed.  For some reason she got really offended when I called her on it and dumped her. 

Not really a shame. Better for it. This was one who was an e-mailer, not much else.


Ghost address, check. Multiple names, check. Forgets YOUR name, check. 


Here's another GREAT one. 


--Asks you how much money you make on the second day you've been talking to her!  Of course, I faxed my W-2 asap.

[Rubicon]

Too bad you didn't have a spare copy of Bill Gates W2 to fax to her!!

[mendeleyev]

Ghost address, check. Multiple names, check. Forgets YOUR name, check.

Well, apparently not "check" on multiple names. I'm not trying to be rude but it would be impossible to discern if a gal is using multiple names if one doesn't understand Russian patronymics and diminutives (nicknames).That is not a condemnation of you, just part of the learning experience in this adventure.

I believe that the number of scammers in R/U dating is only a small fraction of what is imagined. In reality, an overwhelming majority of "scams" are either linguistic and/or cultural misunderstandings. So relax, don't have the red flag machine gun out and ready to use. Enjoy the adventure, ask the ladies lots of questions and don't allow yourself to be in a hurry to get married. A slow and measured pace gives you to opportunity to learn about the ladies and life in their world so that eventually your choice will be solid.

[noelscot]

Well, apparently not "check" on multiple names. I'm not trying to be rude but it would be impossible to discern if a gal is using multiple names if one doesn't understand Russian patronymics and diminutives (nicknames).That is not a condemnation of you, just part of the learning experience in this adventure.

I believe that the number of scammers in R/U dating is only a small fraction of what is imagined. In reality, an overwhelming majority of "scams" are either linguistic and/or cultural misunderstandings. So relax, don't have the red flag machine gun out and ready to use. Enjoy the adventure, ask the ladies lots of questions and don't allow yourself to be in a hurry to get married. A slow and measured pace gives you to opportunity to learn about the ladies and life in their world so that eventually your choice will be solid.

I'm in no rush, believe me. Thank you for your recommendations. 

[Jumper]

Well, apparently not "check" on multiple names. I'm not trying to be rude but it would be impossible to discern if a gal is using multiple names if one doesn't understand Russian patronymics and diminutives (nicknames).That is not a condemnation of you, just part of the learning experience in this adventure.

I believe that the number of scammers in R/U dating is only a small fraction of what is imagined. In reality, an overwhelming majority of "scams" are either linguistic and/or cultural misunderstandings. So relax, don't have the red flag machine gun out and ready to use. Enjoy the adventure, ask the ladies lots of questions and don't allow yourself to be in a hurry to get married. A slow and measured pace gives you to opportunity to learn about the ladies and life in their world so that eventually your choice will be solid.

No directed at Noel-
 
This post by Mendeleyev..:lol:   is
simply very good advice for anyone looking..
 
 
Keep your eyes open ,be aware,
 but no need to go into it with a mentality of looking for scam.
 
People do tend to find what they *look* for.
 
 
Noel- good luck in your search..!
 

[ML]

IINM, that could also be interpreted as getting less formal and rather friendlier .

What is really dangerous is when she asks you to call her Natochka.
That is certainly a flag; albeit maybe not a red one.

[ML]

 
I can just imagine myself jumping out of a bedroom window in Munich after an angry husband chases me with a meat cleaver, yelling in German, then I explain to the Polizei--"No, I do not have my passport. It's back at her place. Where are my clothes? Those are back at her place, too."

A friend of mine was just about to 'do the deed' with his gal when one  of her ex boyfriends threw a metal trash can through a window, climbed into the room and started a fist fight with my naked friend.

My friend won the fistfight and they successfully evicted the man.  But he could not attain an erection again for 2-3 months.  Quite traumatic for his equipment . . . but, of course, due to the brain equipment.

Quite a funny story that makes even the man laugh about it now.

[ML]

. . . . However, I did have one that had been writing to me for quite a while (3-4 months?) who suddenly wrote a letter calling me "George" (definitely not my name - not even remotely close) and changed her own name from Lyudmila to (IIRC) Anna!

It is not uncommon for these women to use a name different from their own when posting their info on the Internet dating sites.  They just want some privacy  protection until they are ready  to reveal themselves.  Doesn't bother me, unless they keep with the wrong name deep into the email and  phone correspondence.

I did have one gal that used a 'western' name for quite some time.  I suspected it wasn't her real name, but it didn't bother me.  Not until our first 'in person' date did she say 'my name is really XXX.'  I said, why did you  wait so long to tell me.  She said, 'I really don't know.'  Anyway, she turned out to be a great gal and we have an ongoing relationship.

Another situation even stranger.  I corresponded with a gal for 6 weeks or so before going to a particular city.  This gal lived in another city, and we just couldn't arrange a time for her to come to the city I was in on a business trip.

A year later, I actually visited her city.  I had really forgotten about  her until I was there, and then just emailed her 'out of the blue' to tell her I was there.  She readily agreed to meet the next day or so.  She  even said in the email, "If I remember right, you are in the business of XYZ," which was correct.

When we met, I was thinking, this really isn't the gal I was writing to before.  She was exactly the right height, weight, hair color and age, but looked quite a bit different in face.  But quite good looking, so didn't bother me.  We had a great date and 2 more great dates before I left town.

We continued to correspond for several weeks, but it still kept bugging me because I compared the photos I took of her with the ones sent to me the previous  year.  My friends and I could not ever be 100 percent sure, but most thought they were two different women.

So I started suspecting that when I sent the 'out of the blue' message to the  first woman, she was already involved with another guy and asked a friend of hers if she wanted to have a go at me.

Then, in her messages, she mentioned her adult son and daughter, whereas the first woman had two sons.  I checked the earlier profile to determine this, but still gave her the benefit  of the doubt considering it  could  have been a typo.

Again, wouldn't really bother me; except when she  kept up with the deception for so long.

The final point came when she wrote me a happy birthday greeting . . . on my correct birthday.  So I thought . . . ah ha, I am going to get to the bottom of this by asking when her birthday was so I  could likewise greet her.  I knew the birthdate of the woman I had corresponded with the year before.

So she knew the jig was up also . . . and just never answered me.

Very strange ending.  But a great beginning and I thought it was pretty kool that a  woman would turn me over to her girlfriend.  I would  have had no problem if they simply told me this up front or at least after the first date or so.

And quite a coincidence that they were so close in age, height, weight, hair  color, etc., and both even had great sense of humor and could write very long interesting messages in very good English.  And both had two adult children . . . although of a differing gender combination!!  :-))

I was actually quite disappointed she decided to stop the relationship rather than 'fess up', although I didn't think it was really going to go somewhere in the long-run.

Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we set out to deceive.

(Didn't look up the exact words, just what came off the top of my head)

[Patagonie]

Great information ML
I think that many time they try to hide informations from the beginning not knowing really what can be the best.
It's a general trend for women to hide of course her agenda.
In my opinion many mistakes can appear, especially because of the distance, and these international relations can quickly be broken.
Generally it's better to not confrontwomen to theirs secrets actions or secrets agendas, because they flee or they become like a rat in the bottom of a tunnel. And in particular FSU women, prouder than their western counterpart.
It's better to game them with your extra information and shut up.