Putin calls USA a parasite on the world economy!

[SMS60]

The real parasites in this are the super rich, who are not paying their fair share and have managed to manipulate idiots, such as the "Tea Partiers" with the mantra of "tax=bad".

You might want to brace yourself for 2012. In 2010 average Americans embraced the Tea Party philosophy by changing over 500 elected seats in local, state, and national governments. The newly elected officials were mostly fiscal conservatives. The next wave is coming. You might want to enlighten yourself with knowledge of what they are about besides calling them idiots. But this is expected from the so called educated groups who rely on repeating what they hear from their talking points.

[Gator]

 
Are you telling me that if the super rich who control more than half of the US wealth pay their fair share of taxes are not going to make a dent in the debt?
 

No, not Fox News.      Someone will provide the information.  It depends upon the definition of "super rich."  Does it touch the upper middle class or not?

[Gator]

My opinion is that firstly, at the very least, governments should cut spending on their war making infrastructures including their insanely expensive armaments.

Agree.  To start there is no reason to have US troops in Europe and Asia.  However, military is discretionary spending, and total discretionary spending is only about 40% of the Federal budget. 

Secondly, increase taxes. I heard an American politician on the news yesterday say that American's have some of the lowest personal taxes in the industrialised world.

Probably a democrat who wanted to tax the "rich."  Your chart ignores many taxes, some of them significant.  For example, I pay far more in property taxes than income taxes. This chart is apples and oranges to an unknown degree.

Sometimes you have to give a bit, yes, sometimes to those that don't deserve it, to gain a lot more. Quality of life is measured by more than the spare cash you have in your pocket.

I don't want to debate ideologies such as politics and religion.  I just hope that this debt ceiling debate is the beginning of a cultural change.  Hopefully, it will engage the public to understand that we have a problem and to examine various alternatives for solving the problem.  And then they vote for those who will hopefully lead us out of the problem.  It will take years.  It will address more than budgets and spending and deciding whose ox gets gored.  It must address tax reform,  regulatory reform, tort reform, ....Interesting times. 

There is always the option of monetizing the debt (devaluing currency).  Perhaps Europe and the US will do it simultaneously.  The increase in gold prices partially reflects such.

[Faux Pas]

Gator, normally I agree with your advice but when you start talking politics you seem to take your data from Fox news.
 

Where do you get your data Muzh? Bill Maher? Joy Behr?

Are you telling me that if the super rich who control more than half of the US wealth pay their fair share of taxes are not going to make a dent in the debt?
 

Maybe a definition of what their "fair share" is?

I'm with you guy, everyone should have to pay their fair share. We have 48% not paying any taxes and that is projected to rise at the rate of 1% per year for the next ten years. Shouldn't they pay they're fair share too?

[Muzh]

Where do you get your data Muzh? Bill Maher? Joy Behr?

NYS Department of Taxation and Finance.
 

Maybe a definition of what their "fair share" is?

I'm with you guy, everyone should have to pay their fair share. We have 48% not paying any taxes and that is projected to rise at the rate of 1% per year for the next ten years. Shouldn't they pay they're fair share too?

When our republic was founded it, was because they were tired of taxation without representation. Now, you have corporations who will tell the lawmakers who should be taxed, and trust me, it's not them. Back to taxation without representation. This happens when you develop a ruling class that owns everything that you have, including the lawmakers.

[Misha]

I'll ask again, why is it that the average joe will rabidly defend the super rich in maintaining their wealth over their fellow schmuck's bad fortune?

A good question and unfortunately I don't have the answer either.

[BC]

Where do you get your data Muzh? Bill Maher? Joy Behr?


Maybe a definition of what their "fair share" is?

I'm with you guy, everyone should have to pay their fair share. We have 48% not paying any taxes and that is projected to rise at the rate of 1% per year for the next ten years. Shouldn't they pay they're fair share too?

Yes, a family of 4 earning less than 50k with two or more children under 17 don't pay federal taxes.. but they are left with state taxes, social security taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, gasoline taxes and a host of other 'taxes'.  Nickle and dimed to death, struggling even to save money for their kids education.  The response by the government to try and keep them in position to pay their mortgages while keeping a tank of gas available and some cheerios and doritos in the cupboard was a good idea.   After all, it's the 48% that spend the most money, not the top earners.  In effect, a new poverty level indicator was declared.  Name of the game was 'keep that ruble rolling'.

Those that do have considerable wealth spend a good deal of their time finding ways to not pay taxes using loopholes built into the law by their sponsored government representatives.  They can deduct many things as business expenses that a family cannot.  Thus the exemptions are somewhat reasonable to make up a bit for the difference.

Corporate taxes are a whole other ballgame with all kind of shenanigans going on.. so much so that the IRS now dictates that they keep records of 'dubious' tax transactions.. it's a shell game between big business and the IRS.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/27/business/27tax.html

The huge biz's and financial institutions simply do and get away with whatever they want, especially when they have overseas operations and bases.  The name of the game is obfuscation..  Their guarantee is 'too big to fail'.. a never ending trails of financial transactions that in the end are impossible to follow and make any sense of.  A ton of money flows overseas and between tax havens before tax time.  September 30 and 31 December are probably the biggest banking days of the year.. Just think of how much money is basically 'in limbo' being transferred over a couple of time zones to try and miss that deadline on both sides of the transaction. A merger here, an acquisition there.. no matter as long as Uncle Sam doesn't get a hold of any.. so much so that they would like to bring some of that cash back to the US for a measly 5% tax.
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/06/21/schumer-adds-new-weight-to-repatriation-tax-talks/
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/lost-cause-tax-repatriation-or-folly-homeland-investment-act-part-2

[SMS60]

Quote from: Muzh on Today at 07:06:30 AM<blockquote>I'll ask again, why is it that the average joe will rabidly defend the super rich in maintaining their wealth over their fellow schmuck's bad fortune?
</blockquote>
A good question and unfortunately I don't have the answer either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The answer lies in personalities and the way people see themselves in life. Some people always worry about what their fellow man is doing others dont give a second glance to what their neighbor is up to.

The average joe is not defending the super rich he just dont care what the super rich dude down the road is doing. He's more worried of how he can become super rich and live a comfortable life. He has a vision and is always looking forward.

The ones who worry about their neighbors feel fulfilled by finding ways to take what they have to make things seem fair.

[Misha]

Now, you have corporations who will tell the lawmakers who should be taxed, and trust me, it's not them.

And even Warrenn Buffett holds that his secretary pays a higher tax rate than he does: http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2007/1126/042b.html

[BC]

Quote from: Muzh on Today at 07:06:30 AM<blockquote>I'll ask again, why is it that the average joe will rabidly defend the super rich in maintaining their wealth over their fellow schmuck's bad fortune?
</blockquote>
A good question and unfortunately I don't have the answer either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The answer lies in personalities and the way people see themselves in life. Some people always worry about what their fellow man is doing others dont give a second glance to what their neighbor is up to.

The average joe is not defending the super rich he just dont care what the super rich dude down the road is doing. He's more worried of how he can become super rich and live a comfortable life. He has a vision and is always looking forward.

The ones who worry about their neighbors feel fulfilled by finding ways to take what they have to make things seem fair.

Guess that's sorta like the 'wannabe' RW seekers feeling their rights are infringed upon by IMBRA, thus object where no harm has been done.

[Chicagoguy]

When Putin spaeks about others I would like to ask what is their contribution to the UN compared to the U.S.
Where are their hospital ships and giant airlifts when tragedies happen around the world ?
What do their oligarchs contribute compared to people like Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, Ted Turner and thousands of others ? Where are their giant foundations that give so much money to so many different causes ?
What buildings are named after them at so many hospitals, universities, parks and many other places.
They seem a particularly stingy nation and people to me.

[SMS60]

Guess that's sorta like the 'wannabe' RW seekers feeling their rights are infringed upon by IMBRA, thus object where no harm has been done.

Big difference. Rasberrys and Watermelons.

The IMBRA is the arm of a government. Everyone should be worried about this arms intrusion into ones life. But bend over if you like.

The super rich are private citizens. They dont write laws. You have a choice not to participate in their business.

[SMS60]

When Putin spaeks about others I would like to ask what is their contribution to the UN compared to the U.S.
Where are their hospital ships and giant airlifts when tragedies happen around the world ?
What do their oligarchs contribute compared to people like Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, Ted Turner and thousands of others ? Where are their giant foundations that give so much money to so many different causes ?
What buildings are named after them at so many hospitals, universities, parks and many other places.
They seem a particularly stingy nation and people to me.

Bingo
 
You forgot to add the average joe american who gives to charities to help causes around the globe without the government forcing them to do it. In fact if Uncle Sam would force people to give by way of taxes the charities would dry up because people dont like to be forced to do something. They want to do it on their own free will.

[Muzh]

The super rich are private citizens. They dont write laws. You have a choice not to participate in their business.

 
LMFAO
 
That's the funniest thing anybody ever said.

[Misha]

 
LMFAO
 
That's the funniest thing anybody ever said.

Yes, and the New Yorker had a good piece examining the role of the billionaire Koch brothers in funding the Tea Party: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer

[Muzh]

The average joe is not defending the super rich he just dont care what the super rich dude down the road is doing. He's more worried of how he can become super rich and live a comfortable life. He has a vision and is always looking forward.

The ones who worry about their neighbors feel fulfilled by finding ways to take what they have to make things seem fair.

This is the real reason why. The faint hope that they eventually become super rich and not having to pay taxes.  Better chances at getting hit by lightning.

[SMS60]

 
LMFAO
 
That's the funniest thing anybody ever said.

I know where you are coming from. IE  Lobby groups, ect.

To keep you entertained. I have a question. What type of laws would a billionare business man or corporation lobby for?

[SMS60]

This is the real reason why. The faint hope that they eventually become super rich and not having to pay taxes.  Better chances at getting hit by lightning.

Your a Debbie Downer. I dated a couple of women with your personality. I just called it negative. Man, they were unattractive when they started to talk. Terrible dates.

[BC]

Big difference. Rasberrys and Watermelons.

The IMBRA is the arm of a government. Everyone should be worried about this arms intrusion into ones life. But bend over if you like.

The super rich are private citizens. They dont write laws. You have a choice not to participate in their business.

Yes, that is democracy.  Those with the most money win.

Tahirih Justice Center had more funds to lobby and get IMBRA into law than those who objected.

I can't recall the last President who was elected that had the least campaign funding.  Anyone know?

Here's the current tally for 2012

http://www.cfinst.org/pdf/federal/president/2012/Pres12_Q2_Table1.pdf

[Faux Pas]

NYS Department of Taxation and Finance.
 

And probably an excellent source of information on those who Pay certain taxes in NYS. Is that where you get "all" your information?
 

When our republic was founded it, was because they were tired of taxation without representation. Now, you have corporations who will tell the lawmakers who should be taxed, and trust me, it's not them. Back to taxation without representation. This happens when you develop a ruling class that owns everything that you have, including the lawmakers.

Again, I agree, for the most part. However, the same corporations you paint as the "big bad boogeyman" actually pay taxes that you don't seem to wish to acknowledge. Corporations are entities, not people. Yet corporations like other companies pay 50% of the FICA and SSI for each of their employees.


Corporations have lobbys deep seated in our government but, it is not them who elect the representation that pander to them. That distinction belongs to you and I.


"I" or "we" didn't develop a ruling class. Where do you get that from?

[SMS60]

Again, I agree, for the most part. However, the same corporations you paint as the "big bad boogeyman" actually pay taxes that you don't seem to wish to acknowledge. Corporations are entities, not people. Yet corporations like other companies pay 50% of the FICA and SSI for each of their employees.

FP

I wonder how many people who work for a company no matter how large or small know this?

Its interesting now that the employee pays about 3.5% of gross, because of a tax holiday law passed a while back, and the employer still pays 7% of the gross wages to SSI

[Faux Pas]

FP

I wonder how many people who work for a company no matter how large or small know this?

Its interesting now that the employee pays about 3.5% of gross, because of a tax holiday law passed a while back, and the employer still pays 7% of the gross wages to SSI

I would wager those that do not have a company or work for one, few know this little invariable fact.


I'm not trying to bust Muzh's bawls here and I am not Fox news apologists. I see Fox news and I see the slant and the mantra. I also see Muzh parroting the mantra on the other side of the isle from the CNNs, CNBCs and the ilk.  One is no better than the other IMHO 

[Muzh]

I'm not trying to bust Muzh's bawls here
 

I know that. We can have discussions without crushing each other genitals... 
 
 

 ...and I am not Fox news apologists. I see Fox news and I see the slant and the mantra. I also see Muzh parroting the mantra on the other side of the isle from the CNNs, CNBCs and the ilk.  One is no better than the other IMHO 

CNN and CNBC?? LMAO You consider those two liberal fringe?
 
You probably mean MSNBC. Nope, too fringe. Besides there are no news media. They are all 'entertainment' channels.
 
FYI, The NYS Dept of Tax and Finance always prepare fiscal reports that extend beyond NYS.
 
Q. What's the capital of world investments?
A. NYSE, NASDAQ, and AMEX in Wall Street, NY

[thompsongunner06]

I call Mr Putin a Parasite,,,,he has possibly BILLIONS,,no one but him knows how much he has,,,99.9% from mafia(Russian). And he wants to be Mr Presidentie for ever with the next election,,,that he he changed the rules since he was "Prime Minister"...He has no room to talk. All he wants is POWER,,,he has more than enough money to go crawl under a slimy rock and hide,,,but no..he will not. He is power hungry and his "citizens" will suffer,,,the guys in the military dont even get food all the time or money,,the police take bribes to give to their supervisors and so on. The US for real needs to take care of its own FIRST,,,then any nation that ASKS for help we can assist FOR MONEY or OTHER forms of PAYMENT!!!

[Muzh]

Tommygun, these are old Soviet tactics from the power vertical. Not much to pay attention.