Putin calls USA a parasite on the world economy!

[Vincenzo]

Yes, a family of 4 earning less than 50k with two or more children under 17 don't pay federal taxes.. but they are left with state taxes, social security taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, gasoline taxes and a host of other 'taxes'.  Nickle and dimed to death, struggling even to save money for their kids education.  The response by the government to try and keep them in position to pay their mortgages while keeping a tank of gas available and some cheerios and doritos in the cupboard was a good idea.   After all, it's the 48% that spend the most money, not the top earners.  In effect, a new poverty level indicator was declared. 

I compare this "poor" American family to a poor Russian family.

The "poor" American family has:
a car or cars because it pays for gas
a house because it pays mortgage
It can also afford higher education.

A poor Russian family:
earns $200 a month
lives in a small room with their parents
has no car of course, they walk everywhere
never eats out

Actually, the poor Americans pay almost no income tax, while the richest pay almost all.

[Misha]

Actually, the poor Americans pay almost no income tax, while the richest pay almost all.

The figure is misleading as what matters it the proportion of your income paid in taxes. One does not need a PhD in economics to understand that someone who earns 1,000,000 earns 50 times as much as someone earning $20,000 and thus even if both were paying the same proportion of their wages in taxes, the millionaire would be paying 50 times more in taxes than the person scraping by on part-time minimum wage jobs. It is not that poor people IMHO pay no income taxes, but simply that they pay less in total in taxes because they earn much, much less than the millionaires and the billionaires.

[Faux Pas]

I know that. We can have discussions without crushing each other genitals... 
 
 
CNN and CNBC?? LMAO You consider those two liberal fringe?
 
You probably mean MSNBC. Nope, too fringe. Besides there are no news media. They are all 'entertainment' channels.
 
FYI, The NYS Dept of Tax and Finance always prepare fiscal reports that extend beyond NYS.
 
Q. What's the capital of world investments?
A. NYSE, NASDAQ, and AMEX in Wall Street, NY

I didn't feel the need to call you lunatic fringe 


I have no idea how much can be gleaned from the NYS Dept of Tax and Finance for a political discussion but, if you say so, I'll take your word for it. 


If you wish to get technical, it's all entertainment to the ubber-rich elite who play puppet masters with the world affairs. Do you ever get the feeling it doesn't matter what you do or think? What is right or wrong has no meaning to those elite who are in "play"?

[Vincenzo]

I call Mr Putin All he wants is POWER

Actually, Mr Putin has Power. He can do what is good for the country without asking somebody's permission.

Did Obama punish any of the banksters who created the crisis? No, he's too weak.

I heard that the latest Putin's fight was against the Mayor of Moscow. The mayor's wife became the richest woman in Russia due to mayor's bribes. They are both packing and moving to London or Israel.

[Muzh]

I have no idea how much can be gleaned from the NYS Dept of Tax and Finance for a political discussion but, if you say so, I'll take your word for it. 

I didn't either. We have a GIS intern who is always talking about investments and how the sky is falling. He provided me with some info he obtained from the Tax guys in NY. And this is NY, did you say political?? Heh That's all they do around here.

[Vincenzo]

It is not that poor people IMHO pay no income taxes, but simply that they pay less in total in taxes because they earn much, much less than the millionaires and the billionaires.

The USA is a socialist country. The poor pay no income tax.

You can go to http://www.hrblock.com and check the tax calculator.
The above mentioned "poor" family of 4 that earns $50,000 pays no tax, it actually receives a refund: $37.
Yes, somebody will say that the "poor" family pays sales tax on its new car and big screen TV; pays property tax on its 4-bedroom house...

[Misha]

The USA is a socialist country. The poor pay no income tax.

You can go to http://www.hrblock.com and check the tax calculator.
The above mentioned "poor" family of 4 that earns $50,000 pays no tax, it actually receives a refund: $37.
Yes, somebody will say that the "poor" family pays sales tax on its new car and big screen TV; pays property tax on its 4-bedroom house...

The same couple using the same paramaters but with no kids will pay $3,058 in taxes.

[SFandEE]

What this is devolving into that is relevant to the common nature of the FSU and the USA which is


propaganda


people parroting information for which they have no ability to confirm and which they accept only because it works within their belief system


For those who associate income with work and industry answer this direct question


Did the CEO of Merilly Lynch circa 2008 earn his income (top .001% bracket) from Merill Lynch?
Did the cleaning crew that cleaned his office and toilet circa 2008 earn their income (bottom 1%)?


Which is the parasite on the US economy?  My definition--taking more than they produce.


Facts that seem to need to be stated to help those who think that wealth has been created for the 1%, 5%, and 50% purely on their productivity.


The US is the number one debtor nation
The US is the number one trade deficit nation
The US pays for half of the world expenses for a military and uses the military as a public works and jobs program.


Many of the top 1% are parasites off of this debt.  (Halliburton, Exxon, GM, Goldman Sachs) If you made money off of the Iraq or Afghan war--parasite--it was debt to the Chinese that gave you the profit.  What did you produce for American debt?  Look at gas prices 2001 to 2011.  People who profit off of war took more than they gave.

[Vincenzo]

The same couple using the same paramaters but with no kids will pay $3,058 in taxes.

That's 6%.
The same couple earning $500,000 will pay $139,000 or 28%.
Then it'll have to pay state taxes, etc.

[Gator]

Muzh had asked me about data.  I did not make a long search for reliable recent data, yet  surely we can agree to accept the CBO data. 

www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/88xx/doc8885/12-11-HistoricalTaxRates.pdf

It provides income and effective tax rates for various income groups for 2005 (the most recent I could find in 10 minutes).

Those who are interested can review the two tables presented by CBO.  I attempted to insert the table yet failed.  IT was never my forte. 

[Gator]

Some people have indicated that all we need to do is increase the taxes on the rich.   What is rich?  One could assume that  the top 1% are rich.  here are the data from the table I just posted.

Income Group:                       Top 1% of all households
Millions of Households:           1.1
Average Income (pretax):     $1,558,500
Average Income (after tax):  $1,071,500
Effective Tax Rates:
       All Federal Taxes              31.2%
       Individual Income Tax      19.4%
       Social Insurance Taxes      1.7%
       Corporate Income Taxes    9.9%
       Excise Taxes                      0.2%

So let us assume the effective Federal Income Tax rate is increased on these households by  33%.  I think we all would complain if our FIT were to be increased by 33%.  However, some people claim these rich folks don't deserve to keep so much money, so they should not be allowed to complain.

This would raise tax revenue by the following amount:

19.4% effective FIT rate  x  33% increase  x  $1,558,500 average income for group  x  1,100,000 households in group = DO THE MATH

Did you get $109 Billion?   And what is the deficit?  (ANSWER:   $60 TRILLION IN UNFUNDED OBLIGATIONS).  I said it would not make a dent.   Actually, this is a dent, albeit a small one. 

[Gator]

For a preview of what will be necessary, I like the report by Obama's Simpson-Bowles Fiscal Commission.  the following is a summary:
 
 http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/11/deficit-commission-co-chairs-simpson-and-bowles-release-eye-popping-recommendations.php
 
The Comission's findings call for cuts in social security and medicare spending.  Also recommended  are tax reform (including more tax revenue) and tort reform.  The report identifies needed cuts in discretionary spending and military spending.   
 
Everyone is affected, and justifiably so.   Do our current political leaders have the political courage to vote for such?  I doubt it based on what I have seen.  Will American voters replace them with someone who will make the needed change?  Even though such changes will be taking money out of the voter's pockets?  We will find out.
 
 

[Misha]

That's 6%.
The same couple earning $500,000 will pay $139,000 or 28%.
Then it'll have to pay state taxes, etc.

Depends how they "earn" their income. Was it salary? Was it dividends? Based on what I read, different types of "income" are taxed differently...

[GQBlues]

Some people have indicated that all we need to do is increase the taxes on the rich.   What is rich?  One could assume that  the top 1% are rich.  here are the data from the table I just posted.

Income Group:                       Top 1% of all households
Millions of Households:           1.1
Average Income (pretax):     $1,558,500
Average Income (after tax):  $1,071,500
Effective Tax Rates:
       All Federal Taxes              31.2%
       Individual Income Tax      19.4%
       Social Insurance Taxes      1.7%
       Corporate Income Taxes    9.9%
       Excise Taxes                      0.2%

So let us assume the effective Federal Income Tax rate is increased on these households by  33%.  I think we all would complain if our FIT were to be increased by 33%.  However, some people claim these rich folks don't deserve to keep so much money, so they should not be allowed to complain.

This would raise tax revenue by the following amount:

19.4% effective FIT rate  x  33% increase  x  $1,558,500 average income for group  x  1,100,000 households in group = DO THE MATH

Did you get $109 Billion?   And what is the deficit?  (ANSWER:   $60 TRILLION IN UNFUNDED OBLIGATIONS).  I said it would not make a dent.   Actually, this is a dent, albeit a small one.

Much too detailed for the Libs..
 
I wonder why you even bothered.
 
First of all, of all people, Putin, one who bilked and milked the UN-mandated Oil-4-food program is speaking of parasites? Pots & kettle...
 
Moreover on the homefront, especially here in California, in addition to our FIT we also pay SIT. If that isn't enough, they tax us an additional 10 % of every penny we spend. Add that to road tax, sin tax, excise SDI tax, property tax, utlities tax, tax, tax, tax.....and this State is flat broke. Why? Entitlements.
 
When the Libs speak of eliminating tax breaks for the 'rich', that would be/include any couple earning a combined AGI of $250,000.00. I bet Warren's monthly expense account is about that much.
 
Do what Clinton did in the '90s to balance the budget. Abolish welfare and twart entitlements. They want handouts, immigrate to Canada. If not Canada, go somewhere else. Take that unwanted bastard child with them. Dreams of my Father, my butt. The hard-working folks can manage this country's economy just fine. They should go to where folks like to talk socialism.

[Misha]

They want handouts, immigrate to Canada. If not Canada, go somewhere else.

We managed to balance our budget when faced with a debt problem, run healthy surpluses for a decade and now benefit from a low debt-to-GDP ratio.

[CanadaMan]

They seem a particularly stingy nation and people to me.

I understand you.
But since this is a site about Russians/FSU's perhaps we should speak their language?
"They seem a particularly greedy nation and people to me." 

[Chicagoguy]

From CanadaMan
"They seem a particularly greedy nation and people to me." 
Yes, for sure.

[JohnDearGreen]

  What do you all make of this?
 
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gZsFx4eqAwFygD-IedNnVa4GvenA?docId=CNG.e15ed612097d222fbb45807658240414.7c1

Possibly interesting but a violation of forum policy:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1374.0



Board Policy: There shall be NO POSTS which address or debate religion or politics except as they are explicitly topical to the pursuit of relationships with women from the FSU.

[Gator]

Much too detailed for the Libs..
 
I wonder why you even bothered.
 

   I try to help those with a degree in liberal arts.  Some of them have a genuine interest.
 
 
Earlier I mentioned this fact to someone who suggested the answer was to tax the rich.  They then repeated the suggestion to tax the rich.  I guess they record Obama's scolding lectures and replay them, believing it true because Obama said so.
 

First of all, of all people, Putin, one who bilked and milked the UN-mandated Oil-4-food program is speaking of parasites? Pots & kettle...

Speaking of not bothering,  I thought Putin's comment did not deserve a response.

[Gator]

Board Policy: There shall be NO POSTS which address or debate religion or politics except as they are explicitly topical to the pursuit of relationships with women from the FSU.

True, yet it is Odds and Ends.  Also, I found RW to have minimal interest in politics, saying FSU elections have few choices, so why bother.

[oldernotwiser]

Some people have indicated that all we need to do is increase the taxes on the rich.   What is rich?  One could assume that  the top 1% are rich.  here are the data from the table I just posted.

Income Group:                       Top 1% of all households
Millions of Households:           1.1
Average Income (pretax):     $1,558,500
Average Income (after tax):  $1,071,500
Effective Tax Rates:
       All Federal Taxes              31.2%
       Individual Income Tax      19.4%
       Social Insurance Taxes      1.7%
       Corporate Income Taxes    9.9%
       Excise Taxes                      0.2%

So let us assume the effective Federal Income Tax rate is increased on these households by  33%.  I think we all would complain if our FIT were to be increased by 33%.  However, some people claim these rich folks don't deserve to keep so much money, so they should not be allowed to complain.

This would raise tax revenue by the following amount:

19.4% effective FIT rate  x  33% increase  x  $1,558,500 average income for group  x  1,100,000 households in group = DO THE MATH

Did you get $109 Billion?   And what is the deficit?  (ANSWER:   $60 TRILLION IN UNFUNDED OBLIGATIONS).  I said it would not make a dent.   Actually, this is a dent, albeit a small one.

I understand the argument, but to quote corporate income taxes at 10% to get your effective federal tax rate up to 31% is misleading.  Also the wealthy paying 1.7% of their income on social insurance and complaining about it, it should be embarrassing.

[Ade]

Some people have indicated that all we need to do is increase the taxes on the rich.   

Actually, some of us think you should increase taxes for everyone. The US tax rates I've seen quoted in this thread are a bit of joke if you ask me. And you think that you're the only ones that pay other taxes besides on your income, like "property" or "utilities" tax? We have so many other taxes, like on cars that even before it's bought, some cars double or even triple in price, and lets not talk about road tax or the huge taxes on gas - 1ltr of 98 unleaded for me now costs almost 15kr that's $2.76 or more than $10 a US gallon. Let me give you an example; take a look at this X6; http://www.finn.no/finn/car/newcar/object?vehicleId=781830920110101 That price in US$ is currently over 469,000. In the US top end MSRP of a 2011 X6 as far as I can see is just about 89,000. http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/BMW_X6/

But you know what? I realize that a large part of my quality of life here is what it is because of those taxes so I don't really mind that much. Okay, I'm a bit miffed that a quality car can set you back as much as a house, but besides that, it's all good.

I think people in the US should start to realize that the golden age of cheap and inexpensive everything is coming to an end and that perhaps there is more to life than unfettered consumerism based off large amounts of discretionary income. A high QoL costs and there's no getting away from  it.

[Faux Pas]

Actually, some of us think you should increase taxes for everyone. The US tax rates I've seen quoted in this thread are a bit of joke if you ask me. And you think that you're the only ones that pay other taxes besides on your income, like "property" or "utilities" tax?

But, this is where you miss the boat. We don't really care what you think. You don't live here, you don't pay taxes here and you don't live within our system. What makes you think that your opinion is a credible one? Because you've read about it in books? Many Americans do not see your system as Utopia. Can you understand that what you believe is fair and equitable for your country, an ideal situation for you, we do not want any part of? 

We have so many other taxes, like on cars that even before it's bought, some cars double or even triple in price, and lets not talk about road tax or the huge taxes on gas - 1ltr of 98 unleaded for me now costs almost 15kr that's $2.76 or more than $10 a US gallon. Let me give you an example; take a look at this X6; http://www.finn.no/finn/car/newcar/object?vehicleId=781830920110101 That price in US$ is currently over 469,000. In the US top end MSRP of a 2011 X6 as far as I can see is just about 89,000. http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/BMW_X6/

We have a bevy of other taxes besides income tax too. But, let me see if I understand you correctly, you are being heavily taxed, so you believe it mandatory that "everyone" be heavily taxed? Quite frankly, you are paying $10 bucks a gallon for petrol, paying 50%  in income tax, on top of all the other taxes you pay and you defend that? You are the perfect sheeple. I am sure your government appreciates you as a spokesperson.

But you know what? I realize that a large part of my quality of life here is what it is because of those taxes so I don't really mind that much. Okay, I'm a bit miffed that a quality car can set you back as much as a house, but besides that, it's all good.

The majority taxpaying  America does not envy or desire your quality of life. I know that seems to be a difficult concept for you to grasp but, is the fact nonetheless. We see it as a ponzi scheme that will eventually tumble. You have ample examples of it now as well as throughout history. Europeon socialism perhaps is a step better than communism but, not much.

I think people in the US should start to realize that the golden age of cheap and inexpensive everything is coming to an end and that perhaps there is more to life than unfettered consumerism based off large amounts of discretionary income. A high QoL costs and there's no getting away from  it

Perhaps you don't know as much about the American way of life as you claim. The American dream has always been based on encouraging hard work, invention and personal responsibility. Not the socialist ideas popular in Europe. It has nothing to do with duplicating the quality of life you enjoy in Norway or any of the other reaches of Europe. It is quite arrogant of you to think so. 

[Gator]

I understand the argument, but to quote corporate income taxes at 10% to get your effective federal tax rate up to 31% is misleading.

I am not sure what you mean.  Keep in mind that our tax sysytem is very complicated.   You should perhaps refer to the CBO reprt.
 
I assume the 10% corporate tax paid refelects the fact that the top one percent do not have an 8-5 job in a cubicle.  Many own assets which produce income (e. g., rental units).  If the income from such is part of the $1,558,500, the taxes paid should also be included.
 
If these income producing assets are set up as privately held corporations, the corporation must pay taxes on income derived from these assets using corporate tax rates, not personal.   This becomes rather complicated because of sub-S, partnerships, depreciation, carryover losses, etc.   
 

Also the wealthy paying 1.7% of their income on social insurance and complaining about it, it should be embarrassing.

FICA payments paid by the individual are capped because SS pensions are capped.  The more income one makes, the lower the percentage.  For sure the top one percent will receive only a small percentage of their FICA payments returned as pension.   

[Misha]

  I try to help those with a degree in liberal arts.  Some of them have a genuine interest.