Putin calls USA a parasite on the world economy!

[Ade]

Standard and Poor's agrees with Putin.  S&P has downgraded US debt from the highest rating of AAA to AA+, down one notch.   

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/SampP-downgrades-US-credit-apf-2107320979.html

I wonder where the US will end up in the country risk list come September; http://www.euromoney.com/Article/2773235/Country-risk-March-2011-Country-rankings-and-acknowledgements.html

[Misha]

Vince, how many times have you been to Russia? You clearly weren't there in the 90s when there were people lining the streets trying to sell anything they could and hyperinflation had the ruble trading at 33,000 rubles to the dollar 

[Gylden]

Who was it that said "economy based on credit is false economy"?
IMO one critical flaw the US made is when we went from "backed by gold" or "backed by silver" to "in god we trust".   

[BC]

A European raises his head in these times and points his finger at the US?!

As far as causality is concerned, I guess so.. as far as global financial institutions being complicit and exacerbating the problem there's plenty of blame there to go around.  With CDS's and other financial 'schemes' everyone was in on it.. sorta like passing a hot potato and getting a nice commission the longer it was held.  Add musical chairs into the scheme and everyone was having a lot of fun making big commissions.  When the music stopped, 60% of the multi trillion dollar loss was left with US financial institutions and 40% at banks and insurers overseas. Wouldn't have been half bad had the gamblers involved (and yes, they were gambling) placed bets with their own money.  Instead everyone was borrowing to place bets to the tune of trillions - and obviously lost.  This sucked all liquidity right out of the financial system.. from a flood of dollars to draught with global effects.

History repeats..

1929 and 2008.. what do they have in common?  Too good to be true market booms resulting in liquidity problems due to gambling with borrowed money and loosing.  My finger points everywhere on that count.

Meanwhile we discover that some European economies did what America did, and its banks do not have a solid balance sheet. The fiscal policies of some nation's are even worse than  here in the US.    So you are now Putin's "parasite."  Europe can not point its fingers at us, but instead must look into the mirror.  It is your turn to play it out.  To deal with the crisis, I understand the Italian parliament is working overtime in August instead of heading to a seaside holiday.  When did that last happen? 
 
I have faith that we (US and Europe) will resolve this and not head into a depression.  While some nations and states have bad balance sheets, many major corporations are sitting on cash.  Such can help with reinvestment, etc. if our recovery can continue.  Tightening of fiscal policies may not be enough.  It is possible but not likely that Europe and America may simply monetize the debt by simultaneously devaluing their currencies.  Bond holders will scream, particularly China, but what can they do given their economy depends upon selling stuff to us.   

Governments that don't work well, and yes Italy is at the top of this heap tend to have the largest debts.  Italy is well.... Italy.. everyone knows well that they can't get squat done properly.  It was a well known fact when the monetary union was formed and the failure of EU systems to maintain set membership goals is certainly at fault.  But ... cash was easily available so what the heck.  Italy's economy IMHO was always based on low monetary value.. cheap labor, decent manufacturing capability.  It's still pretty much that way and is what keeps things running somewhat.  I believe the financial crisis affected the north much more than the south which seems to be more resilient to economic change.. In fact due to political instability over long periods of time folks seem to count more on themselves and each other than the government.  Tomorrow the government may fail once again and life will go on.. something that would be a huge crisis in the US and other places.  If Italy goes bust the resulting crisis will be more towards the EU than Italy itself, but what we're seeing is loss of overall investor confidence that leads to the unsettling financial environment we see today.  Italy's 2.5 Trillion debt although a huge sum, represents 'only' the amount of debt that the US hopes to reduce over the next 10 years or so.. or for comparison purposes the approximate amount the US has and will spend on Iraq and Afghanistan wars when all costs are calculated. Debt/GDP is only part of the story.

Here's a somewhat recent article giving a view of what's going on: http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/europe/italy/110713/Italy-Debt-Euro-Zone-Crisis-European-Central-Bank

Your hopes that somehow the US and EU will be able to resolve the problems without going into depression will depend on whether or not the resolve exists for true and fundamental changes.  I don't think we're at that point yet and will need even harder lessons to learn. In fact, I believe all measures taken thus far on both sides of the water are for naught.. so far.  I think that after the 2008 crash the best thing to do would have been nothing.  Simply let the financial institutions fail outright and reconstruct from the bottom up.  Yes, this would have been very, very difficult. In that scenario the government's role would have been to assure basic necessities of life and keep folks from starving to death for the relatively brief period it would take to build something a bit better and more robust. 

Calamity tends to pull people together, regroup and rebuild.. and that's good.. maybe even necessary from time to time.. after all, 'this too shall pass'.  Current efforts, at best, only distribute the burden and risks into the future and onto the backs of future generations, limiting their future possibilities.

Devaluation is of course a possibility but isn't that already happening to some extent?.. and then the question is what to devalue against.. Japan and Switzerland did some 'corrections' a few days ago to keep things on par.. Tit for tat devaluation would follow and land us all right down to the same relative state.

Putin has for some time expressed desire for more stable forms of currency that maintain value in crisis, thus his brusque comments.  Obviously wild fluctuation of the US economy has negative global effects.  Although I don't believe some kind of universal currency is possible, I could see where there might be benefits of using something like energy, communication, food, transportation, housing and medical credits with universally accepted conversion rates.. more like a barter type currency with little or no speculative value.

I'm obviously not an economist, so please forgive any gross errors in my arguments.

[oldernotwiser]

Do you know any Russian woman who wants to marry a loser without money?

Try to tell Russian women your ideas about stealing moneys from the rich and making them poor.
Their mothers will be angry and ask daughters never deal with the commies. They remember what happened when Soviet people had no incentive to work and produce any goods.

Not asking anyone to marry a loser without money.  My comment was more along the lines, not interested in marrying a golddigger, would much prefer to marry for love.  Yes, I can be a romantic, and no I do not consider taxes stealing.

[oldernotwiser]

I read your article and I did not see that comment.  IMO unqualified lending, leveraging and CDSs caused the recession. 
 
 
Again you repeat your point about punishing the rich with more taxes.  Again, it will not solve the fiscal problem. 
 
Geez!  Such talk is similar to a senior citizen who took care of his health and is living well into the 80s and now telling him:  "Hey old fellow, you are taking more than your share of the retirement pot.  You have already had a better life than most.  Enough - it is time for you to go.  We are taking your pension and using it to fund expensive medical care for people who abused their health so that they can 'live' an extra six months."
 
You are older and wiser and hopefully healthy.  Are you ready to give up your SS payments to help medicare and medicaid?   [To clarify, I am not accusing you of being in the 80s. ]

I copied a little of the article over for you, not accusing you of being in the 80's either. 

'In the Aug. 15 issue of TIME, columnist Rana Foroohar argues that the debt deal  will increase the level of inequality in the U.S. You can read her very good  article here.  I agree with Foroohar that it is bad news — and perhaps even worse than she  makes it out. Inequality not only caused the financial crisis; it could make the  recovery much slower.'

Read more: http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2011/08/04/why-wall-street-hates-the-debt-deal/#ixzz1UFQTyCG9

I am not saying the article is 100% correct in its assertions.  I think that many of the points that you and others made about the financial crisis to be valid.  However I do think that inequities in income can slow the eventual financial recovery, I do believe a strong middle class is the best engine to drive the economy.  I am sorry that a progressive tax would be such a punishment on the rich, perhaps they will have to sell one of their multiple homes, perhaps take one fewer vacation per year, who knows how they will suffer 

I agree with you and do feel that just increasing tax revenue from the wealthy cannot solve the problem, but it can help.  As far as social security goes, I do think they should raise the age where people can begin collecting, even if that means I will not collect anything back as early as otherwise, among other measures .  Medicare, I think they need to cut back on benifits and make sure they are just providing for necessary care.   I guess you could say I am in favor of a multifaceted approach to solving our financial problems.  I am in favor of fiscal responsibility.  One reason I am astounded by those who thought it would be a good idea that we default on some of our payments (like refusing to pay ones debts was fiscally responsible).  Gator you mentioned that you hoped your candidate wins over mine, I assume they will be republican, I use to be one, I think their policies have been atrocious during the last decade and not improving one bit lately.   Personally I would like to see a party of centrists and leave the political fringes out there on the fringe, they seem to be dominating the parties now.    I am not in favor of no government, or huge government, I am in favor of making our government as efficient as possible, and yes I know, efficient government many would say is an oxymoron.

[Faux Pas]

  Personally I would like to see a party of centrists and leave the political fringes out there on the fringe, they seem to be dominating the parties now.    I am not in favor of no government, or huge government, I am in favor of making our government as efficient as possible, and yes I know, efficient government many would say is an oxymoron.

You sound like a Teapartyer  Even though the Teaparty has been ostracized, mainly by the Democratic leaders, deem as terrorist, lunatics and everything else imaginable. Even in this thread although mainly IMHO, out of ignorance.  The Tea Party movement is a healthy one. Right/Left, Democrat/Republican has gotten so polarized as us versus them, they are incapable of compromise and working together for the greater good. It is only win, lose and reelected, the people's business and interest be dammed. The Tea Party, like it or hate it has injected the people's voice back into the halls in Washington.


FTR, I am not a Tea Party member but, at this point I have no issue with the fact of their growing grassroots strength. We desperately need a 3rd political party in America that has some legs and the Tea Party is as close as we have come in many years.

[oldernotwiser]

You sound like a Teapartyer  Even though the Teaparty has been ostracized, mainly by the Democratic leaders, deem as terrorist, lunatics and everything else imaginable. Even in this thread although mainly IMHO, out of ignorance.  The Tea Party movement is a healthy one. Right/Left, Democrat/Republican has gotten so polarized as us versus them, they are incapable of compromise and working together for the greater good. It is only win, lose and reelected, the people's business and interest be dammed. The Tea Party, like it or hate it has injected the people's voice back into the halls in Washington.


FTR, I am not a Tea Party member but, at this point I have no issue with the fact of their growing grassroots strength. We desperately need a 3rd political party in America that has some legs and the Tea Party is as close as we have come in many years.

No, not a Tea Party member.  I will give them credit for helping us to take the debt problem seriously, however, in my opinion they take it to far, and are not willing to compromise, they are not in favor of any increase in revenue for the government.  Also many of them were the crazies who almost led us into default on the national debt. So while I understand your point, about the Tea Party being a third party made up of a grass roots movement, not sure if they fit in my mind of what a centrist party would look like.  But who knows, it is tough for me to find what one might call my perfect political party.

[BC]

FTR, I am not a Tea Party member but, at this point I have no issue with the fact of their growing grassroots strength. We desperately need a 3rd political party in America that has some legs and the Tea Party is as close as we have come in many years.

Diversity would be good but I don't think it would resolve all the financial woes.  Both parties would of course object since even a minor independent representation would be able to swing votes one way or the other.  What may be more useful is an apolitical financial arm of the government with binding powers to uphold long term budgetary goals, something like 'we are going to balance the budget in 2 years and pay off half the government debt in 20 or 30 years'.. Now that would be something the business sector could deal with and calculate with.  Politicians writing checks and even their own pay raises obviously does not work that awful well.  All politicians should be paying taxes on their income as any other government employee and not be exempt.  Nothing wrong with substantial bonuses for representatives when the goals are met or exceeded.. Ban lobbying and earmarks. Election reform is definitely needed.. the amount contributions going toward paid TV airtime should not be a deciding factor in an election - a level playing field is democratic.

I could go on and on... but well such big steps take real resolve and as stated upthread, we're no where near that yet.

[SMS60]

Here's an article about how much the rich can pay. Claims to be numbers from the IRS.

It shows there are 8247 tax payers with incomes over 10 million with total revenues of 240 billion in 2009. If the IRS confiscated all the revenue of this group it would fund the government for 24 days. Since they receive 25% of this already the extra would be good for 18 days.

The problem is bigger than we can imagine. Extra taxes wont put a dent in it.


http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/archives/39534

[Faux Pas]

Diversity would be good but I don't think it would resolve all the financial woes.  Both parties would of course object since even a minor independent representation would be able to swing votes one way or the other.  What may be more useful is an apolitical financial arm of the government with binding powers to uphold long term budgetary goals, something like 'we are going to balance the budget in 2 years and pay off half the government debt in 20 or 30 years'.. Now that would be something the business sector could deal with and calculate with.  Politicians writing checks and even their own pay raises obviously does not work that awful well.  All politicians should be paying taxes on their income as any other government employee and not be exempt.  Nothing wrong with substantial bonuses for representatives when the goals are met or exceeded.. Ban lobbying and earmarks. Election reform is definitely needed.. the amount contributions going toward paid TV airtime should not be a deciding factor in an election - a level playing field is democratic.

I could go on and on... but well such big steps take real resolve and as stated upthread, we're no where near that yet.

Political office was never meant to profitable for the office holder's or a career as it is for most politicians. The exception was the executive administration as their terms required full time service. That stipend covered living expenses. The founding father's never received pay for their service. They traveled at their own expense and stayed for months at a time without pay until the business of the country was completed and then traveled back to their own homes, businesses and way of life. True, these were mostly comparably wealthy men and land owners of the day but, the idea of service without personal gain didn't last very long and has morphed into what it is today. An honest politician is unheard of in present day. They all sell their souls at a rather quick pace.


The financial woes BC are a result of politicians attempting to do what we cannot do as individuals, as in live beyond our means. We simply cannot spend more than we take in. While it is possible to do with credit, there is always a day of reckoning. You see complicated solutions to the problem but, I see it as a quite simple two pronged approach. 1) stop spending more than we collect. 2) Insist all elected officials adhere or be removed from office.


We don't have a financial problem, we have a political problem. Our elected officials will not put the health of the country and the interest of their constituents above their own partisan politics and self grandizing interests. At this point in history they are all bought and sold many times over or they wouldn't be there in the first place. We are still the richest country in the world and we have the money and ability to fix the problem. We don't have the will, and that is by design of the political machines in Washington. This way they can spend us blind and always dodge responsibility for doing so.


IMHO, this is why the Tea Party is healthy and needed. They are too far Right and uncompromising for me yet, effective. They are making at least some of the scum in Washington accountable where they have been completely unchecked

[Handycam72]

I see China is not too impressed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14430598

[OlgaH]

All politicians should be paying taxes on their income as any other government employee and not be exempt.  Nothing wrong with substantial bonuses for representatives when the goals are met or exceeded..

Plus add all the social benefits they get as medical insurance that covers the members of their families and retirement that more than $100K per year for life even after one term of service.

[CanadaMan]

Yes, it seems Putin isn't the only 'super power' spokesman who has 'reservations' about the US debt problem.

Another article on the subject:

China scolds U.S. 'addiction to debts'
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2011/08/06/us-debt-china.html

It's one thing for Russia to tell off the US publicly, but China?

"The U.S. government has to come to terms with the painful fact that the good old days when it could just borrow its way out of messes of its own making are finally gone," Xinhua said.

"Mounting debts and ridiculous political wrestling in Washington have damaged America's image abroad," Xinhua said. "To cure its addiction to debts, the United States has to re-establish the common sense principle that one should live within its means."

Can't argue with that.

[Darth_Budda]

I am not surprised one bit S&P downgraded the US to AA+, I was surprised it did not happen sooner!!

The USA suffers from inefficient government. As one poster said, we lack the political will to do what is needed.

I am sure this is impart due to the large number of publicly traded companies, who put profits ahead of everyday Americans.

Small privately owned business is good for for America, not more corporations with the ability to lobby congress like they were a citizen.

Unless major changes can be made, the world is in for a ride...

Oh sorry i enjoy politics,,

[BC]

Oh sorry i enjoy politics,,

Welcome Darth.

And women obviously... LOL

[joe24]

 USPS posts $3.1 billion loss in Q3, warns of default   
[color=rgb(0, 0, 0) ! important][size=10pt ! important]http://news.yahoo.com/usps-posts-3-1...145707721.html[/size][/color]

[GQBlues]

While falling off a notch with the rating isn't such a catatrophic event, still this hasn't happened since 1917 and I am so stoked it happened during this administration. That's what happens when silly folks put someone in the office of the presidency without an iota of govening experience. Zip, nada. Let's see what those Greek columns can do now, LOL.
 
Worst, one bent on pursuing his personal agenda despite the surrounding events taking place.
 
The interest rates are now destined to soar, inflation soon to follow. Dollar goes up and our manufaturing sector will crash to a halt, then all we'll have are Unions and government employees overflowing with too many new hires with no private industry to balance it, LOL. The audacity of dope.
 
I'm so happy this is all happening. Kool-Aid, anyone?

[OlgaH]

While falling off a notch with the rating isn't such a catatrophic event, still this hasn't happened since 1917 and I am so stoked it happened during this administration.

It happened long before this administration. It happened already during George W. Bush administration when dept jumped from 56.4% in 2001 to 84.2% in 2009 and even long before George W. Bush since Ronald Reagan. Obama inherited already damaged economy. He handled it in not right way... that I agree as in some way I agree with your "blame Bush" 

[BC]

While falling off a notch with the rating isn't such a catatrophic event, still this hasn't happened since 1917 and I am so stoked it happened during this administration. That's what happens when silly folks put someone in the office of the presidency without an iota of govening experience. Zip, nada. Let's see what those Greek columns can do now, LOL.

Yeah, GW had a ton of political experience.

Worst, one bent on pursuing his personal agenda despite the surrounding events taking place.
 

Basketball?

The interest rates are now destined to soar, inflation soon to follow. Dollar goes up and our manufaturing sector will crash to a halt, then all we'll have are Unions and government employees overflowing with too many new hires with no private industry to balance it, LOL. The audacity of dope.
 
I'm so happy this is all happening. Kool-Aid, anyone?

Yeah.. conservative policies worked exactly as designed.

Bush said in 2001 "so we have the tax relief plan [...] that now provides a new kind -- a fiscal straightjacket for Congress. And that's good for the taxpayers, and it's incredibly positive news if you're worried about a federal government that has been growing at a dramatic pace over the past eight years and it has been."[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast

The answer to the inability of Congress to contain their check-writing policy.

You should be cheering!  Finally Republicans did something that actually worked!

-all said in good cheer GQ 

btw.. I'm having difficulty reconciling this policy with the info shown here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms

Republicans abhor big government, but spend more doing so to then turn around and cut revenue?  I'm having a hard time understanding this logic.. maybe you can help me.

Increase in debt vs GDP
Republican debt added since 1981: +61.4%
Democratic debt added since 1981: less than 1%

In $$

Republican 9.5 Trillion
Democrat 1.2 Trillion

[wicheese]

Ten year cost of Bush tax cuts was $2.5 trillion in lost revenue.  This tax cut was passed during a time of surplus, which most anyone would have realized was a one off bonus from the stock market high-tech bubble, IMHO.  I'm still looking for all the long-term jobs it created.


Cost of Bushes wars $4 - 6 trillion. Most people when they go to war raise taxes to pay for it, but in our case we cut taxes because most people accepted Afghanistan as payback for 9/11, but Iraq is 100% Bushes war.  I'm still looking for that secure supply of oil and contracts for USA companies it should have brought us.


Economy tanking, well it tanked long before Obama was elected President as it was just a matter of time as we were riding a housing bubble, due to our easy money policies which was bound to collapse just like all past bubbles have collapsed (yes, the democratic insistence to lend to those on the bottom did not help as well).   Unfortunately, this bubble shielded the loss of manufacturing jobs due to internationalization and when we woke-up to that fact we realized their was no easy solution beyond massive job retraining which many 50 & 60 y.o. people where not willing or able to do. 


Bottom line, I'm not a big fan of Obama, but much less of a fan of the Tea party because at least Obama has ideas beyond just cutting taxes and stripping the budget (which is now discredited by it's original proponent, David Stockman "Croney Capitalism" as both sides are trying to manipulate the markets for their own benefit).


Now how does this impact my impending marriage to a Russian lady, well it does not, despite the fact she has a job in Russia that pays close to twice the average USA per capital income and short-term dismal prospect for anything paying similar here in the states.  The fact is, love can blind a person and it's much more important than $$$ and this is what's important to all men still venturing to the FSU.  This is a good thing because it might be more difficult for a FAT and OLD man to attract a 20 or 30 hottie, but for those with realistic expectations, you still have plenty of RW looking for love where economics is not the primary concern. 

[Faux Pas]

Economy tanking, well it tanked long before Obama was elected President as it was just a matter of time as we were riding a housing bubble, due to our easy money policies which was bound to collapse just like all past bubbles have collapsed (yes, the democratic insistence to lend to those on the bottom did not help as well).   Unfortunately, this bubble shielded the loss of manufacturing jobs due to internationalization and when we woke-up to that fact we realized their was no easy solution beyond massive job retraining which many 50 & 60 y.o. people where not willing or able to do. 

Bush did us no favors and was a complete cluster***k as a president. He spent recklessly like a drunken sailor and proved to be more left than most democrats at the time. But c'mon, how long does he get the blame for the complete and total idiot at the helm now? We were in debt with Bush but, it was manageable. It wasn't Bush who bailed out the auto-industry, Wall St. and put together the biggest economic bailout package that would make FDR blush.


We have a president and an administration that hasn't the foggiest idea of what they are doing. More than that, they don't even care. Do you remember the chants of Hope and change, bridging the gap, uniting the country and transparency? Three years in and Obama has done infinitely more damage to the country and the economy than Bush did in 8

[Shadow]

As usual I am kind of cynical when confronted with the world politics show.

Last week the USA tried to give an excellent performance of supposed democracy in reaching agreement at the last moment. Was there ANYONE here who seriously thought that the debt would not be raised causing US government salaries not to be paid ?
Also the agreement reached lifted the next "problem" with national debt until one year after the elections. Or to say it different, to a more convenient time for impopular  measures...

The S&P lowering of the rating which was inevitable got accompanied by a convenient error in calculation, so that the State could argue the lowering was incorrect. At the same time it would uphold the image of S&P as independent from the US government, and with S&P and Moody on different ratings attempt to silence the voice that they are too powerful...

China and Russia are making small protests as they prepare for a joined currency. Talks have been going on for a couple of years, but a solid ground is needed to present it to the world without getting shot down. With a large North American currency (Dollar), West- European currency (Euro) it is actually logical to create a mostly Asian currency in preparation for a world-balanced system.
The Yooble might be introduced however it needs to have a good base in order to be accepted by the West.

All this is trying to hide exactly how poor the US economy is doing. Last year indications were that the Euro and US dollar would be heading towards a 1:1 rating. Currently even with at least 5 Eurozone countries in trouble it is hard to make the Dollar rise from beyond its lowest point in a long time.

The Euro countries meanwhile are also putting up a great show. The open force towards the current weaker members is not for nothing. The EU realizes that it has taken up some countries who expected to profit from the Eurozone and get thrown money to support their failing and corrupted governments. Current display towards long-time member states is a warning to the new members not to start asking for handouts.

And finally, the path to new prosperity is slow, and only a change of thought will lead to a new golden era. As long as politics are based on putting on the best effort for re-election rather than putting on the best effort for the economy, its ging to take a while to get out of trouble. One reason why Russia is not doing too bad in building their future...

[Darth_Budda]

All this is trying to hide exactly how poor the US economy is doing. Last year indications were that the Euro and US dollar would be heading towards a 1:1 rating. Currently even with at least 5 Eurozone countries in trouble it is hard to make the Dollar rise from beyond its lowest point in a long time.

I am surprised the Euro and Dollar are not closer in value?

I would not be surprised if they are trying to keep the dollar low to try to give manufacturing a chance.
We lack a economy that makes real goods, At least we could do more ourselves.


Our political system is completely broke, We need a constitutional convention.

Let economist run the economy,
Let politicians handle laws of morality.


I know The State of new york has a outrages political system. Nothing ever gets done here.

[GQBlues]

Yeah, GW had a ton of political experience.

Compared to the ba*tard child, heck yeah...Texas governor...what'about O?
 

Basketball?

You believe all that hype about this guy, BC? You think he can play basketball? LOL. Look at the videos of him playing....the guy plays basketball as bad as he governs. Don't believe they hype you read. He can't even dribble the ball without having to look at the floor. He definitely can't golf either.

Yeah.. conservative policies worked exactly as designed.

Reminiscing of the golden Reagan years! Indeed... 
 
You ought to know the financial collapse had nothing whatsoever to do with the Bush administration. Zip. Nada. You can easily trace the crazy default swap silliness back unto Mr. Clinton. Housing bubble? Ask the democratic-led congress who fed the Mac and Mae limitless federal clout.

Remember PG&E / Enron? That stew had been brewing before Bush ever even came to light.

The wars kept coming back to some people’s mindset. Yeppers, wars are pretty bad. But American conveniently forget, 90+ percent of the population wanted needed to go to Afghanistan post-911. They couldn’t get there fast enough.

Iraq? LOL….had our European ‘friends’ insisted in holding Iraq’s Saddam strictly within the UN mandated conditions of cease fire, there would NOT have been an Iraq war II. Just because Kofi Annan, Jacque, and Vladmir were cutting a fat hog between themselves doesn’t mean all the silly international law coming out of the UN re: Iraq is automatically null and void, eh?
 
For a few million $$, our European brethren sold us out. Simple as that.

Bush SR gets a load of complaints for not having to chase Saddam in the early 90s despite it not being part of the UN mandate. Bush Jr, while I do not agree with the timing, and deny this all you folks want, did nothing more than to uphold what already WAS a UN mandate for Saddam’s compliance. Again, money change people.

Military budgeting? Strange to me that the very methodology that kept the western hemisphere its security and sovereignty post-WWII is constantly questioned of its viability and necessity. Dated arms and equipment are sold at its current value when newer technology comes around. Had it not for the silly US spending on its military, I doubt very much any of you would be trekking to FSU looking for sexy Olga these days, no?

These soldiers get paid whether or not we are at war. We spend billions for soldiers in the 38^th parallel, Okinawa, heck for a good while we were spending wads of monies for security alone in Greece’s (K17) embassy.

As for Democrats/Republicans debt ratio/spending…a total misnomer most folks do. Just like the proposal the current dems tried to lobby. In it, their proposed spending cut was $ 2.77 trillion, while the reps were less than a trillion IIRC. On its face value, it would appear the dems were pushing a better policy, eh? LOL. What they have on that tab was ‘all the cost’ of war’s end in both Iraq and Afghanistan, which were inevitable.

Remember the “surge”? Obama thought it’ll be a failure. Gitmo, anyone? What happened to that kool-aid’s main ingredient?
 
They want to shove the Unions down our throats, raise taxes on small businesses, etc...yet folks complain that most manufacturing jobs are getting outsourced to China et al...WTF?