Putin calls USA a parasite on the world economy!

[Gator]

 
SFand EE,
 
Does the SF stand for San Francisco?  If so, you are the people who gave us Nancy Pelosi. 
 
 
The article said that Wyly was a patron of the arts, so he was giving back to his community.  If he died last year, his estate would have been free of Federal taxes.  This year, there will be a piece to help repay our debt. 
 
Your sentiments regarding his death suggests that you would welcome a two part plan:  1) increase the estate tax rate and then 2) kill the wealthiest. 

[Turboguy]

Muzh,
 
Only an idiot would push to eliminate regulations, yet your response seemed to suggest that was what I meant.  I rarely see you get so worked up. 
 

Oh, time for me to go looking for my dunce cap.  I would love to see a ban on new regulations and commissions established to try to get rid of about half the regulations out there.   That doesn't mean I would be in favor of permitting toxic waste to be dumped in our rivers but we are regulated to death.
 
How many of those who like regulations are fans of IMBRA? 
 
Even though we are over regulated Pennsylvania is looking at a new one that is totally stupid and will put me out of part of my business. 

[Gator]

 
You may say that this is reason to reduce government. I can tell you that what you have to reduce are the goddamm incompetent political hacks. If you think we have too much government, me being on the inside, can tell you that we've been under the "do more with less" mantra for the last 15 years. There are many professionals here that are doing the job three of them used to do. In addition, we are having monthly meeting to decide which projects can be relegated to the "oblivion" basket, projects that are mandated by law, because not enough personnel.
 

Do you meant that with smaller government, the best people will not necessarily be retained for reasons of senority, etc.?   I had a recent encounter at the muni government level, and efficiency was not the mantra.
 
In the downsized corporate world, the best (productivity::salary ratio) usually are retained. 
 
 
There is going to be one day where the shit hits the fans and people will start asking why but don't want to hear the reason.

[BC]

My point was that Obama had his opportunity to calm fears, and he did not.  First, he should have spoken Saturday, not hide his head in the sand.  He spoke when the market was tanking.  And his words prompted it to tank much further.   He used words such as "long-term deficit reduction" rather than suggest balancing the budget over the long term.  More of the same. 
 
The Washington Post wrote summarized his points:
 
I did not vote for Obama although he was more intriguing than McCain.  When he was elected, I had high hopes for the good of my country and my prosperity that he would succeed.  He will be tied with Bush for America's worst president.  The real problem is that the Republicans thinking they can not lose  will nominate right wing conservative rather than a moderate centrist.   My hope is that Obama will do a LBJ and decline to run.  Obama is not a LBJ.

Gator,

I can imagine it's a rather tough job at the moment.. I don't envy his position at all and even have a hard time trying to think of anyone regardless of their political orientation that could give what is perceived as being needed without resorting to hot air alone.

You can't just nuke S&P.

In many ways this is new territory for politics.. Delving outside what is taken for granted with very little resources to do anything with..

If I read you correctly, you believe fundamental changes are necessary.. I do too along with many others.. but is it even possible under the current system and fiscal restraint?

As I see it, the war chest is empty and that is an apolitical problem, maybe even the core issue.  It's time to build but the resources to do so are exhausted.

[Gator]

Oh, time for me to go looking for my dunce cap.  I would love to see a ban on new regulations and commissions established to try to get rid of about half the regulations out there.   

That would be a reasonable approach to reg reform, and reg reform does not mean eliminating regs.   Keeping the necessary regulation yet making compliance easier is an option.

[SFandEE]

SFand EE,
 
Does the SF stand for San Francisco?  If so, you are the people who gave us Nancy Pelosi. 
 
 
The article said that Wyly was a patron of the arts, so he was giving back to his community.  If he died last year, his estate would have been free of Federal taxes.  This year, there will be a piece to help repay our debt. 
 
Your sentiments regarding his death suggests that you would welcome a two part plan:  1) increase the estate tax rate and then 2) kill the wealthiest.

Do you take white collar crime seriously or just crime amongst the underclass that funds public unions (correction officers, police, probation) the bigger priority.  Do you believe in funding that regulation?  What punishment keeps a man from stealing $25,000,000?


However you want to punish white collar criminals for stealing $25,000,000 let me know.  Jail for 4 years and be wealthy the rest of their lives--or poor, but give their money to family and friends for when they come out.  What is the punishment for stealing $25,000,000?


I have never advocated the politics of Big Democrats or Big Republicans like so many do on this site.  I champion a systemic change that reduces the institutionalized corruption.  Sadly there seem to be many posting here that carry the water for Big Republicans and fail on their critical thinking routinely. 


"Ukrainian women like wealth".  What a classic.


Big R on this board seems to be full of confidence that they are the better economic citizens and giving lots of failed garbage wisdom on this thread.  Big D wisdom is a proven failure, but just because it is a failure does not make Big R wisdom credible.  Corrupt is corrupt.

[BC]

How many of those who like regulations are fans of IMBRA? 
 

And what was the implication for you of this 'overregulation'?

A half hour or so to draft and sign a waiver request that was almost guaranteed to fly?

[Faux Pas]

quote author=Faux Pas link=topic=13779.msg274520#msg274520 date=1312833470]

Geeze guy, what a stretch. What exactly is Wyly's crime and how do you connect it to support your argument? They have been accused with allegations and he and the brother are denying and fighting them. There nothing there to hang your contention and pretentious argument on
He has been fighting for over 13 years with his tax deductible lawyers the SEC his hiding in offshore account of over $500,000,000.  What federal tax rate to you want to use?  Low of 5% high of 30%


He is stealing over $25,000,000 to $150,000,000.  Parasite.  It was a better business decision for him to evade taxes and then fight the incompetent SEC regulators than to pay his honest tax bill.  Do people earning $50,000 a year go to the same effort to not pay their taxes? 


Did you miss that?  Do you think the SEC is wrong or do you know enough about lawyers to know that this is a matter of who does he need to buy to get out of the problem.


I knew posting this article would get some criticism.  He was a tax evader--which I guess in a capitalist situation is his duty.  He has contributed to people that say he pays too much and that America would work better for all Americans if he were taxed less.


I don't need to mourn people I don't know.  This is purely a political/business example of how a man used his wealth to keep from paying taxes in America.


If you knew him and miss him--I am sorry for your loss.

I never knew the guy and have no dog in this fight. I have heard of him in the past and am aware of his (prior) troubles. I have no sympathy for the man other than he was tragically killed. I fail to see how a description of this man's death supports your argument meant in any form.


You are contending his money is offshore to avoid paying taxes on it. The SEC allegations are insider trading and he put it offshore to avoid them confiscating it. What I gather from your contention is, it should be illegal to be rich?


Maybe it's because you are all over the place and has led to my confusion.

[Gator]

BC,
 
The answer is jobs, jobs, jobs.  Obama did not mention it as if we were dead in the water.  The war chest empty?  Look at this country.  Look at the American people.  The war chest is not empty.  We are not in a depression.  We must break new ground, and old political hacks in both parties are not the needed leaders.  Obama was suppose to be about change (remember?).  Sameo sameo.

[SFandEE]

I never knew the guy and have no dog in this fight. I have heard of him in the past and am aware of his (prior) troubles. I have no sympathy for the man other than he was tragically killed. I fail to see how a description of this man's death supports your argument meant in any form.


You are contending his money is offshore to avoid paying taxes on it. The SEC allegations are insider trading and he put it offshore to avoid them confiscating it. What I gather from your contention is, it should be illegal to be rich?


Maybe it's because you are all over the place and has led to my confusion.

No idea why you are confused.  Not my concern.


He appears to be a white collar criminal--how do we punish that in America?  Think Enron.


I just posted a link that talked about a white collar criminal who died.  His "tragic" death is not important to the discussion.  It just got his story in the paper.  We are talking about "job creators" and "parasites".  I maintain he was a parasite more so than a job creator.  A taker more than a giver.


I don't know him, don't need to know him.  I just know the SEC has been "trying" to prosecute him for 13 years and the US system has allowed him to tool around in his corruption, unpunished until his death.

[BC]

I have never advocated the politics of Big Democrats or Big Republicans like so many do on this site.  I champion a systemic change that reduces the institutionalized corruption.  Sadly there seem to be many posting here that carry the water for Big Republicans and fail on their critical thinking routinely. 

Start with Tort reform.  Lawyers gone wild.  It alone will resolve many woes and financial burdens of the healthcare industry and businesses, especially the small and medium businesses.

Government regulation does provide some protection.. 'Hey.. I fully complied with the law'..  Sue the government instead.

[Gator]

I have never advocated the politics of Big Democrats or Big Republicans like so many do on this site. 

I have been vocal.  Please tell me how I am a Big Republican (unless you think me a Big Democrat ).  BTW, I believe in abortion, reduced military, prudent regulation and gun control.  Given my choices, I am attracted to Republicans because foremost I am a fiscal conservative and believe in the power of the uncorrupted working man.
 

I champion a systemic change that reduces the institutionalized corruption.

Sounds good.  WTF is it?
 

Sadly there seem to be many posting here that carry the water for Big Republicans and fail on their critical thinking routinely. 

I just don't see that.  Please tell me that your stomach turned when you voted for Nancy Pelosi.

[SFandEE]

So should the punishment for big polluters and corporate murders like BP be just financial and capped?


Business decisions alone.  Pass on the cost to the consumer risks are contained and accounted.  What corporate criminal from 2008, not that dumbass ponzi schemer, different kind of criminal, went to jail?


What government regulator went to jail.  You cannot sell insurance and not provide the insurance, it is a crime.  Who from AIG went to jail.  You cannot conspire that results in killing people.  Think BP.


What are the consequences for white collar crime in America?  Wealthy defense lawyers?

[Gator]

Tort reform, yes!!!!    This was in the Simpson Bowles plan.  It would reduce healthcare costs.
 
Yet the Democrats primarily and many Republicans so far have avoided this topic.   Given most of Congress are attorneys, I wonder why.

[BC]

BC,
 
The answer is jobs, jobs, jobs.  Obama did not mention it as if we were dead in the water.  The war chest empty?  Look at this country.  Look at the American people.  The war chest is not empty.  We are not in a depression.  We must break new ground, and old political hacks in both parties are not the needed leaders.  Obama was suppose to be about change (remember?).  Sameo sameo.

Yes jobs is the answer, but right now, today, business is making big bucks.  The 'economic' downturn allowed business to get rid of excess fat and over time they have learned that they can indeed do as good or better with less.  When everything is hunky dory and profit abounds you really don't worry about the nickle and dimes.. it's human nature.

I agree with you.. it is time to create... but create what?

Obama, yes.... seems he fell a bit into the same old political rut.  He wanted fundamental change and got some awkward political compromise.

If I were him I would simply give both the HR and senate the pink slip.  They are truly useless.  I bet he thinks the same.

Get rid of riders.  Each and every law passed by the House and Senate should stand on it's own merits.  Would that be so difficult?

[Gator]

And what was the implication for you of this 'overregulation'?

A half hour or so to draft and sign a waiver request that was almost guaranteed to fly?

I am with Turbo.   I mentioned this earlier in this thread saying, 

As an example of a regulation, many men have read IMBRA and seen how it  adds another step + screen in the immigration process even though it would apply to only 1% of the men and perhaps to only 0.01% of the men mentally wired to injure a RW (those percentages are just my guesses).

 
Half an hour?  Just reading the IMBRA part of  the form took half an hour (yes, I am dense).   Was IMBRA necessary?
 

[BC]

Tort reform, yes!!!!    This was in the Simpson Bowles plan.  It would reduce healthcare costs.
 
Yet the Democrats primarily and many Republicans so far have avoided this topic.   Given most of Congress are attorneys, I wonder why.

Vote for BC the next election..  but crappola.. I smoked pot in my teens and don't go to church regularly.. and worst of all am married a commie. 

If there is a will, there are ways... plenty of them.

There ain't no will and can only hope this 'wake up call' manages to somehow get some heads to turn.. hopefully all the way 'round.

[BC]

Was IMBRA necessary?

IMBRA was lobbied and IIRC a rider.

Like my wife sometimes says... It's a F^ucking system.

[Turboguy]

Start with Tort reform.  Lawyers gone wild.  It alone will resolve many woes and financial burdens of the healthcare industry and businesses, especially the small and medium businesses.

That is the best post of the thread BC.   For one thing just think about the high medicaid and Medicare prices.  With tort reform those costs could be reduced so much it would do more than all the budget reductions they just passed. 
 
I have mentioned this before but one lawyer I worked with had a client who had a pipe fall on her foot in Lowes.  He got her 6.6 million which means he got over two million for his efforts.   How much pain did he have for his two million?   It is robbery and we are the victims.

[Gator]

Yes jobs is the answer, but right now, today, business is making big bucks.  The 'economic' downturn allowed business to get rid of excess fat and over time they have learned that they can indeed do as good or better with less.  When everything is hunky dory and profit abounds you really don't worry about the nickle and dimes.. it's human nature.

 
Corporations are sitting on cash at less than 1% interest.  In normal times, corporations look for ways to invest that cash and get ROI of 20%+.  Investments create jobs.
 
 
 

If I were him I would simply give both the HR and senate the pink slip.  They are truly useless.  I bet he thinks the same.

Horrifying thought of having the Executive Branch, especially a liberal Democrat, make all the decisions.

Get rid of riders.

 
If earmarks, yes.  Simpson Bowles proposed such.
 

Each and every law passed by the House and Senate should stand on it's own merits.  Would that be so difficult?

Not sure what you mean.  Enact a law on a trial basis?

[BC]

That is the best post of the thread BC.   For one thing just think about the high medicaid and Medicare prices.  With tort reform those costs could be reduced so much it would do more than all the budget reductions they just passed. 
 
I have mentioned this before but one lawyer I worked with had a client who had a pipe fall on her foot in Lowes.  He got her 6.6 million which means he got over two million for his efforts.   How much pain did he have for his two million?   It is robbery and we are the victims.

TG,

Nowdays it's not about whether or not a claim is valid... It's about legal costs.  In most cases it's financially advisable to settle instead of bearing the costs of a prolonged fight.

Just one of the worms in the apple.

[BC]

Not sure what you mean.  Enact a law on a trial basis?

Without riders or earmarks.  Sorry I was not clear.

[SFandEE]

I have been vocal.  Please tell me how I am a Big Republican (unless you think me a Big Democrat ).  BTW, I believe in abortion, reduced military, prudent regulation and gun control.  Given my choices, I am attracted to Republicans because foremost I am a fiscal conservative and believe in the power of the uncorrupted working man.
 
Sounds good.  WTF is it?
 
I just don't see that.  Please tell me that your stomach turned when you voted for Nancy Pelosi.

Gator--as far as I am concerned you and I get along well.  I am a fiscal conservative as well, but no longer believe that the party of fiscal conservation is not corrupted.  Think 2000-2008.  Elective wars, failed government regulation of Wall St., and government workers being compensated incompetents (Lousiana engineers-levy builders)


I believe it is you who posted a while back on another political thread your generational position and how baby boomers have been the priviliged American generation. I am not in that generation and perhaps that is where any possible disagreement may materialize.  I see things from the younger generation that has had to walk through the "elephant waste" of the baby boomers.  I do think you are self-aware on this matter though.


One suggestion on institutional change.  A functioning SEC and IRS that have codes that are pro-American citizen and streamlined to easily comply with accountability that destroys those who see abiding by American laws as a business decision.


http://www.rawstory.com/news/2008/Wall_Street_CEOs_investment_bankers_charged_0206.html


I believe these virtuous job creators do this.  I believe they deduct these as business expenses.  I believe they host charitable fancy exclusive parties in museums for art and opera and write those expenses off and yet the expense of the party results in little community good.  This needs to stop.  If they believe in the arts--fund them, but do not deduct them.  If they want to take a vacation--take it, but do not deduct it because you have a "business" interest in Aspen.  If you want to use a whore, do so, but do not call her an interpreter or business consultant and write it off as a business expense on the corporate American Express.  This is fraud and this is American business.  It is bad business.


I have never voted for Nancy Pelosi and during the most recent tea party/Republican/Democrat melt-down called her office and told her to find compromise even if it meant deep entitlement cuts.  Unfortunately people in Florida did not do the same to their wing nuts.  She did compromise.  Florida wing nuts did not.

[BC]

Corporations are sitting on cash at less than 1% interest.  In normal times, corporations look for ways to invest that cash and get ROI of 20%+.  Investments create jobs.

http://www.businessweek.com/print/magazine/content/11_13/b4221064108107.htm

There are trillions offshore waiting to come back home.

If they can prove that every cent goes toward additional employment I say 'just do it'.

[OlgaH]

Yes, their labor costs are less but that's probably the least of the problem.  Bottom line, they can do it better and quicker than the US and have the latest and greatest machines to do it with.

Unfortunately not always they have "the latest and greatest machines to do it with" and acceptable work conditions.

Ethics in International Business
http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/dl/free/0073102555/324680/Hill6e_IB_Sample_Chapter04.pdf