Putin calls USA a parasite on the world economy!

[Faux Pas]

 
Did I misunderstood what you said?

I think you did. That doesn't seem to be something you do very often or at all.
 
 

You detected wrong. I'm just tired of hearing the same litany why liberals hate this country so much from the other side that I din't find it amusing anymore.

My reference to the hate of TP'ers was to the far left, you may consider yourself to be on this fringe, I do not know. From our previous exchanges, I would say you didn't.
 

From my POV I can easily say why is it that the far right hate poor Americans so much? And before you answer look at some of the posters here regarding IF we should come to a final solution with the (entitled, lazy, parasite) poor.
 
BTW, all through my youth I was a hardcore Republican until Reagan happened. There was a time when Republicans would care for ALL Americans.

IMHO, both the far right and the far left is the lunatic fringe. Although they too deserve their voice to be heard, I cringe when it is. It is unfortunate that those with the biggest platforms and mouth pieces are from these fringes?


Would you agree that the Democrat leadership has made a number of public attempts to demonize the Tea Party? Most recently Axelrod, Pelosi, Reid, Schultz, Dean and others? I find that extremely distasteful and unwarranted. Citizens exercising their constitutional rights being branded terrorist.


Interesting on Reagan turning you against the Republican Party. It was he who after the Carter years turned me away from the Democrats. I was a freshman in college and as most college freshman, I knew everything. The Republican Party is the party of Lincoln. My new ideas on politics didn't please most of my family of Southern Democrats. Many of which call themselves republicans today and I do not.

[BC]

If the government wants to take care of all the important life's matters from cradle to grave is there any individual incentive left?

TG,

Explore this page.. http://computer.howstuffworks.com/googleplex3.htm

Obviously google is a money making machine.. but it seems they provide a quite nice 'socialized' structure..  I wonder why..  They are not just throwing away money.
 
Day care, haircuts and yes.. even breakfast.

Obviously the benefits are higher than the costs.  It increases productivity and employee loyalty.

I'm not saying the government has to do all this, but just an example to show that 'socialism' is not incompatible with business.

Productivity and employee loyalty.. People that love to go to work..

Isn't that what the US needs? 

Incentive enough to at least think about it?

I remember well in the 60's and 70's visiting the US.. a sense of community oozed.. neighbors were neighbors.. you could feel it.

Is it still there? 

My feeling is that 'dog eat dog' took a huge chunk out.

[Misha]

There is no difference in a company with a tax loss carryforward paying no taxes than there is for an unemployed factory worker doing the same.

Can the unemployed factory worker do this? I can't see how a factory worker who lost his job one year could write off taxes the next year    His taxes will be based on what her earned not what he personally lost previous years. Likewise, I am not sure there are many deductions you can carry forward from one year to the next in Canada and somehow I doubt this would be different in the USA, but I could be wrong.

[Gator]

BC,
 
I seem to keep dwelling on your comments.   They are substantive.  You are an intelligent observer and because of living outside America so much you have a different albeit innocent view [sometimes innocent, no offence intended].   I am not trying to dissuade you, but more to understand your sentiments. 
 
I was an expat for two years, with far more Euro friends than American.  It gave me time to think  when I was not doing my job, chasing tail, and traveling.   I discovered upon reentering American business that even though I was gone for just two years, I was not in exact accord with America.   That was good in many ways, yet it slowed me in others.   
 
 
 

For many years, the strength of the US was largely based on a balance of self-sufficiency.

Long time ago.  We were rich in resources; however, we never produced everything (the "Boston tea party").   IMO a better description of the US in the not too distant past: top of the food chain (perhaps alone for a while).  The international business community learned English and we learned little expecting them to speak English.     We now have predators, and we must learn how to compete in an ever more competitive world.  It is imperative that our government facilitates our competitiveness and is not an obstacle.
 
   

Obama in a way, has pointed the way north, but is now being criticized for not delivering less than two thirds of the way through his first term.

This comment floored me.  Many will argue that he did not point us anywhere yet simply drifted us towards bigger government, more debt,  higher taxes, partisan politics, class warfare, and reelection regardless of damage.   Sheeeez....you really believe that his way is the best way?
If he did point us, thank God he only got two thirds of the way. 
 

I think folks in the US simply need to realize that true change takes generations and not to expect results within the short term of a presidency.

Disagree.  Yes, long term, but well short of generations.  Look at what one generation did, the Baby Boomers.  The best generation ever for both economic stability and opportunity.  The same Baby Boomers who did not have as many children, became too complacent, became conspicuous consumers, grew its government to support social change, etc.   
 
We agree that the US is not a small boat.  It is huge with much momentum in a direction started a long time ago.  The radar screen has picked up an iceberg.  We are not alone.  The codependency of the EU is being tested. 
 
IMO we do not have generations to redirect the huge boat.  The next ten years are critical because of the debt issue.   Will our elected government make the difficult decisions and agree?  Have you followed the Super Committee? All 12 appointees come from the extremes of both parties.  So expect the automatic stalemate trigger.  Even if Congress accepts the trigger, the compelled cuts amount to only 25% of those needed according to Simpson Bowles. 
 
America needs a leader.  Not just at the top, but in our legislative branch too.

[Muzh]

Would you agree that the Democrat leadership has made a number of public attempts to demonize the Tea Party? Most recently Axelrod, Pelosi, Reid, Schultz, Dean and others? I find that extremely distasteful and unwarranted. Citizens exercising their constitutional rights being branded terrorist.

I believe they borrowed the book from Lee Atwater and changed the name communist to terrorist.
 
FYI, I consider myself a progressive, not far left.
 
Edit to add: There were Republican progressives. I think TG may remember those days.
 

[Faux Pas]

TG,

Explore this page.. http://computer.howstuffworks.com/googleplex3.htm

Obviously google is a money making machine.. but it seems they provide a quite nice 'socialized' structure..  I wonder why..  They are not just throwing away money.
 
Day care, haircuts and yes.. even breakfast.

Obviously the benefits are higher than the costs.  It increases productivity and employee loyalty.

I'm not saying the government has to do all this, but just an example to show that 'socialism' is not incompatible with business.

Productivity and employee loyalty.. People that love to go to work..

Isn't that what the US needs? 

Incentive enough to at least think about it?

I remember well in the 60's and 70's visiting the US.. a sense of community oozed.. neighbors were neighbors.. you could feel it.

Is it still there? 

My feeling is that 'dog eat dog' took a huge chunk out.

One clear and distinct difference here BC, is that Google provides these work benefits of their own accord and not being strong arm forced to by the government. Do they provide these benefits because they believe in a socialist system or do they provide them because it helps attract and keep the talent they require to keep the pace they have set for themselves. I can't help but believe the latter. Profit motivation

[Gator]

Can the unemployed factory worker do this? I can't see how a factory worker who lost his job one year could write off taxes the next year    His taxes will be based on what her earned not what he personally lost previous years. Likewise, I am not sure there are many deductions you can carry forward from one year to the next in Canada and somehow I doubt this would be different in the USA, but I could be wrong.

One can carry forward capital losses if he sold property.  Such can be used to writeoff future capital gains.  And if there were no gains, one can take a deduction limited to $3,000 IIRC, with the remaining losses carried forward to the next year.     It is more complicated than this, and hopefully for Canada your tax system is less complicated.  Simpson Bowles proposed tax reform featuring simplification of individual taxes with no deductions (not even mortgage interest).

[Gator]

 
FYI, I consider myself a progressive, not far left.

I too advocate progress faciltated by government initiatives developed in mutual cooperation with business and other affected parties.  Some progressives take reform too far, too fast, and  ignore the adverse impact on job producers who are competing with the rest of the world.     We need balanced approaches with an eye towards common goals.  Everyone likes to use the word balance, one of those soft 'feel good' words such as share.   

[Faux Pas]

I believe they borrowed the book from Lee Atwater and change the name communist to terrorist.
 
FYI, I consider myself a progressive, not far left.
 
Edit to add: There were Republican progressives. I think TG may remember those days.

Atwater has been dead 20 years Muzh and that is no defense for vilifying Americans who are exercising their constitutional rights. Who got the flashlights and shovels for that defense? Many of the TP'ers come from the democratic base. What will they declare you when you disagree with them?


I've said before I am not a Tea Party member but, I believe the movement to be a healthy one for the country. I just hope it isn't too late. We need a third party in America IMHO, this might re-introduce the art of compromise back into the political theatre.


The Tea Party is too far right for my personal tastes. I would prefer they were more centrists

[SFandEE]

SF&EE, you raise some interesting questions, yet I believe your questions are more rhetorical than inquisitive. 
 
 
Five points:
 
1.  GE did not negotiate zero tax for 2010.   They complied with US tax law; they had a huge loss carryforward. 
 
2.  GE does make much of its profits from international business; however, surely we want American companies to be on the same playing field as foreign corporations (and some will argue that American companies are already disadvantaged for international trade reasons  cited by Paux Pas.
 
3.  Zero tax did not help,  as GE stock at $16/share is still well below its 2007 high of $40, and still near its 2009 low of $10.
 
4.  Nevertheless, your point confirms that we need tax reform.  Such reform should be based on a comprehensive examination of ALL TAXES rather than a tweak of a few specific taxes.  The latter is the way we have done it for decades, and is why our tax system is a complicated mess.  Tax reform is one of the cornerstones of the Simpson-Bowles fiscal commission's recommendations (which were shelved by Obama even though he appointed the commission).
 
5.  Who is the parasite?  My answer:  the burglar/drug addict.  How do we rid ourselves of such parasites?  Nothing has worked over decades.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/07/07/lobbying_funds_spiral_to_24b/


GE spent over $21 million on lobbying in 2006, highest at that time--that is documented.  As is pointed out later on.  Middle-class, under class has no ability to write US tax code like GE.  Lobbyists write US law for the Congress.  Especially when you had an anti-competent government like the Bush political machine.  A very incompetent government.


As to parasites.  The US controls a significant portion of its' population through parole and jail.  1 out of 32 population--is that a society that is working for the people?


http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censusstatistic/a/aainjail.htm


A serious government would focus its' energy on criminal activity that had the greatest impact on American society.  For example, the criminal activity of BP in the Gulf of Mexico.  A few people, dramatic crime--any jail time, or just a tax deductible cost of doing business with the US government that is tax deductible?


Am I really missing something by looking at this glaring example of corporate crime and asking how is someone not in jail from BP?  If corporations are people too--then put the corporations in jail when they break US law.


As to taxing multi-nationals--the US society provides a market and a climate for these businesses.  If it is possible to charge the Chinese for the quality of a US corporation then do so. 


I hope I can ease out of this discussion.  I have tried to contribute by asking people who are accustomed to arguing politics rather than a culture of corruption.  Whether you want more government or less--can we all agree we want competent government (SEC-Wall St., MMS--BP, Federal government and trade policy).  The goal of the US government should be for the American people and that is not what is good for a multi-national is good for Americans. 


The macroeconomics of the US are destroying the microeconomics of Americans.  A lot of the political talk is about what color to paint the baby's room in a burning house.

[Muzh]

Many of the TP'ers come from the democratic base.
 

This I need some proof.
 

The Tea Party is too far right for my personal tastes. I would prefer they were more centrists

I prefer more common sense and compassion.

[Boethius]

 

 
 The American tradition has never been about class warfare.  This is something new that started with the incumbent. This is bad, real bad. 

 I disagree.  There have been rumblings since Reagan, ameliorated somewhat under Bush 1, and started again under Dubya.   It may be worse now, but I don't think that has to do with Obama, or Dubya, for that matter.  I think it is related to the debt crisis, and the fact that those who created much of the financial crisis felt no pain.  But I don't think it is truly "class warfare". 
 
   
 

As discussed before, taxing the rich will not begin to solve the debt problem.  I agree with you that taxes are a battleline - not because they solve the problem but because they symbolize the struggle between big government and efficient government forces.  The middle class is not for taxing the rich because such revenues skip them and go to the lower income class.  And when those taxes are not enough, the middle class is next to pay more taxes.
 

 I don't think anyone stated taxing the rich would solve the debt problem.  However, it would raise more revenue than not raising taxes.

[BC]

BC,
 
I seem to keep dwelling on your comments.   They are substantive.  You are an intelligent observer and because of living outside America so much you have a different albeit innocent view [sometimes innocent, no offence intended].   I am not trying to dissuade you, but more to understand your sentiments. 
 
I was an expat for two years, with far more Euro friends than American.  It gave me time to think  when I was not doing my job, chasing tail, and traveling.   I discovered upon reentering American business that even though I was gone for just two years, I was not in exact accord with America.   That was good in many ways, yet it slowed me in others.

Gator,

I've been an expat for all but less than a handfull of years, less than 10% of my life.  I've been around different cultures, languages, customs, peoples all my life so yes my actual experience in the US on a day to day basis is 'innocent'.  I love visiting, doing a bit of traveling, conventions and visiting business I deal with.  My line of work is consulting and a part of my job, actually a big one is watching from the 'outside' and giving feedback to management 'inside'. I have had quite a few offers to work in-house, but my experience is that once I am 'in' I start to see trees instead of the forest, thus lessening the value of my work.  That's not to say I am always right about this or that idea or tweak, it's not my job to be right but instead provide another angle of ideas or tools for management to evaluate.

I do have many years of direct business experience from the ground up in the logistics business, much of it as owner or partner.  Having lived in quite a few 'socialist' countries I feel I have a view that may be of some value and don't mind sharing it.

My dad was an educator and one of the wisest things he ever told me was something like 'It's not my job to make kids learn 1+1, it's to help kids learn how to think well enough that they can figure it out by themselves.'  That's how I ran/run my business and a good part of my private life.

This just to let you know a bit of my background.  You are a patient man Gator and I do thank you for asking rather than blasting away at me.  No one here should take my words as absolute truth, but instead just 'think about it'.

Long time ago.  We were rich in resources; however, we never produced everything (the "Boston tea party").   IMO a better description of the US in the not too distant past: top of the food chain (perhaps alone for a while).  The international business community learned English and we learned little expecting them to speak English.     We now have predators, and we must learn how to compete in an ever more competitive world.  It is imperative that our government facilitates our competitiveness and is not an obstacle.

Might it be fair to say that US business imploded?.. not in a destructive sense but self serving sense.  With the baby boomers earnings there was enough to go around so why worry?  Now that the baby boomers are rapidly aging a vacuum needs to be filled.  This past month have been working with some alternative energy clients..  getting equipment offers from both China and the US.  China is bugging me every day about possible orders, pummeling me with information.  Gettiing the US firm to provide information and revise quotes OTOH is like pulling teeth..  Although their product is technologically better, made in USA and more expensive it could be a deal.. but if they don't even answer the email or send me to voicemail all day long China will win again...
 
Quote

Obama in a way, has pointed the way north, but is now being criticized for not delivering less than two thirds of the way through his first term.

   

This comment floored me.  Many will argue that he did not point us anywhere yet simply drifted us towards bigger government, more debt,  higher taxes, partisan politics, class warfare, and reelection regardless of damage.   Sheeeez....you really believe that his way is the best way?
If he did point us, thank God he only got two thirds of the way. 

I dunno Gator, he sparked something that got him elected.  I enjoyed his words and was also hopeful.. but watching the way of politics is like watching a squirrel in a trap.. a sorry sight.  I see a systemic problem that no president alone can fix.  This leaves only disaster to steer the course.

Disagree.  Yes, long term, but well short of generations.  Look at what one generation did, the Baby Boomers.  The best generation ever for both economic stability and opportunity.  The same Baby Boomers who did not have as many children, became too complacent, became conspicuous consumers, grew its government to support social change, etc.   

The baby boomers could afford to have a parent in the home.  They saved for their children's education and lived a relatively good but humble lives.  Quality of life was much different than it is today, or what I perceive it to be from my albeit limited observations.  Today, it's all about me and what I can get. I see much more 'family' in Europe and other countries than in the US.  Look at all major quality of life indicators.. something is not quite 'right' and I don't see immigration as the sole source of the problem.

We agree that the US is not a small boat.  It is huge with much momentum in a direction started a long time ago.  The radar screen has picked up an iceberg.  We are not alone.  The codependency of the EU is being tested. 
 
IMO we do not have generations to redirect the huge boat.  The next ten years are critical because of the debt issue.   Will our elected government make the difficult decisions and agree?  Have you followed the Super Committee? All 12 appointees come from the extremes of both parties.  So expect the automatic stalemate trigger.  Even if Congress accepts the trigger, the compelled cuts amount to only 25% of those needed according to Simpson Bowles. 
 
America needs a leader.  Not just at the top, but in our legislative branch too.

The eyes of the world are on these 12.  Failure to make substantial strides will affect everyone in the US as well as overseas.  It will test whether or not the US political system has the ability to work. If not, I think Obama will be determined enough to push through unilaterally with popular support.. Congress will argue themselves into oblivion.. and the words of the day will be those purportedly of his predecessor.. “it's just a goddamned piece of paper.”

[Faux Pas]

This I need some proof.

You believe they are entirely former republicans? These are real people exercising their rights. Are republicans the only people that can do that? 
 

I prefer more common sense and compassion.

Help me here please. They have no common sense and compassion because they are Tea Partier's or because they are deemed Terrorists?

[GQBlues]

...GE spent over $21 million on lobbying in 2006, highest at that time--that is documented.  As is pointed out later on.  Middle-class, under class has no ability to write US tax code like GE.  Lobbyists write US law for the Congress.  Especially when you had an anti-competent government like the Bush political machine.  A very incompetent government.....

Overall good post SF/EE. Unfortunately, it isn't the government, but the politicians that run it. It matters none which party the present resident belongs to either...GE forking out 21 mil during the Bush era is nothing compared to what they doled out in Obama's 2 years thus far...try 65 mil. Democrats/Republican/TPs/Independent...whatever, it doesn't matter. Money will change people, bar none. The only unfortunate task left for us is choosing the lesser evil amongst these clowns. If not for 'us', for the children we'll leave behind.
 
Remember one the of the main campaign BS this president was chirping all the way to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue? No more lobbyists, no more special interest, etc...LOL. You can't 'jail' a major lobbyist (BP) when they're forking out a cool 23 million to your constituents. But no one is stopping you to appear on TV really angry and cursing them...but I hope everyone is aware now that if there's anything this president is good at, is his threatrical antics.
 
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/111th%20Congress%20Lobbying%20Report.pdf
 
Here's their statement report from 1998 to present: http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/
 
I found this interesting although I will submit I didn't really do cross-checking of the validity of these information. I tried dot gov because of the alleged transparancy we're supposed to get these days...but a penny for their thoughts anyway.
 
GE ( IN: $26), LOL...it if wasnt for Apple, my portfolio would have burned down in blazing flames especially after listening to UBS about investing on hedge funds (Lehman of all people) to boot! Tells me I'm crazy to put any money on Apple at the time (IN: $87). Look who's laughing a bit. But I digress...
 
I'm sure everyone's aware Obama's approval ratings yesterday is in the sub-40. It took GWB late in his second-term to reach that sub-level.

[Boethius]

While the poor and middle class fight for us in Afghanistan, and while most Americans struggle to make ends meet, we mega-rich continue to get our extraordinary tax breaks. Some of us are investment managers who earn billions from our daily labors but are allowed to classify our income as “carried interest,” thereby getting a bargain 15 percent tax rate. Others own stock index futures for 10 minutes and have 60 percent of their gain taxed at 15 percent, as if they’d been long-term investors.       


These and other blessings are showered upon us by legislators in Washington who feel compelled to protect us, much as if we were spotted owls or some other endangered species. It’s nice to have friends in high places.       


Last year my federal tax bill — the income tax I paid, as well as payroll taxes paid by me and on my behalf — was $6,938,744. That sounds like a lot of money. But what I paid was only 17.4 percent of my taxable income — and that’s actually a lower percentage than was paid by any of the other 20 people in our office. Their tax burdens ranged from 33 percent to 41 percent and averaged 36 percent.       


If you make money with money, as some of my super-rich friends do, your percentage may be a bit lower than mine. But if you earn money from a job, your percentage will surely exceed mine — most likely by a lot.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html?_r=1

[Muzh]

From the same column by Warren:
 

I didn’t refuse, nor did others. I have worked with investors for 60 years and I have yet to see anyone — not even when capital gains rates were 39.9 percent in 1976-77 — shy away from a sensible investment because of the tax rate on the potential gain. People invest to make money, and potential taxes have never scared them off. And to those who argue that higher rates hurt job creation, I would note that a net of nearly 40 million jobs were added between 1980 and 2000. You know what’s happened since then: lower tax rates and far lower job creation.
 

So much for "tax cuts will create jobs."
 
I'd like to know who in here will tell the MAN he is full of it.

[Gator]

I hope I can ease out of this discussion.  I have tried to contribute by asking people who are accustomed to arguing politics rather than a culture of corruption.  Whether you want more government or less--can we all agree we want competent government .... The goal of the US government should be for the American people and that is not what is good for a multi-national is good for Americans. 

Our elected officials are concerned foremost with reelection.   Thus, their time horizon is two years at best, not 10 years that we need.  We encouraged this by measuring them for how well they bring home the bacon (i. e., earmarks, spending in our district).   Debt!  "No problem," they say, as they create new ways to kick the can down the road rather than paying the piper as we go. 
 
Multi-nationals may create part of the problem, but as one RW told me about her behavior that I disliked, "You did not prohibit me."   As one example, GQ wrote earlier that our government does not prohibit lobbyists.  To the contrary, our elected officials welcome them (i. e., reelection campaign funding).   
 
Who created this mess?  As citizens we have created our government (of the people, by the people, for the people).  We can change it.  I predict November 2012 1) will be the most energized  election in modern times and 2) will offer starkly different choices.

[chivo]

If you haven't seen these 2 videos they're worth a look see!!
 

 
 

 
 
What's happening now with America is nothing more than greed manifested from the last 30 years, simple.
 
 
 
 
 

chart below. Country	Ratio of CEO pay to average worker pay
Japan	11:1
Germany	12:1
France	15:1
Italy	20:1
Canada	20:1
South Africa	21:1
Britain	22:1
Hong Kong	41:1
Mexico	47:1
Venezuela	50:1
United States	475:1

 
This was from 2005 and the difference has narrowed recently to a paltry 370% or so, God bless 'em.
 
http://www.cab.latech.edu/~mkroll/510_papers/fall_05/group6.pdf

[Gator]

Speaking of November 2012:
 
The only president to win re-election in the last fifty-six years with the unemployment rate over 6% was Ronald Reagan in 1984.
 

• Reagan had successfully reversed a spike in the unemployment rate that occurred in the middle of his first term, bringing unemployment back to 1980 levels. Though the rate was over 6%, Reagan had made considerable progress.  This two-year drop accounted for President Reagan’s increased approval ratings and his landslide victory.
   
• The national unemployment rate was 10.1% in October of 2009, the highest point in the last 20 years. Since then, it has dropped 1.4%, but there is still a long way to go over the next year and a half. If the economy does not rebound sharply and quickly, President Obama’s re-election hopes diminish.

[Gator]

From the same column by Warren:
 

And to those who argue that higher rates hurt job creation, I would note that a net of nearly 40 million jobs were added between 1980 and 2000. You know what’s happened since then: lower tax rates and far lower job creation.

So much for "tax cuts will create jobs."
 
I'd like to know who in here will tell the MAN he is full of it.

?????
 
 
 
1980-2000???  This past weekend marked the 30th anniversary of:
 
 

The Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981 (Pub.L. 97-34), also known as the ERTA or "Kemp-Roth Tax Cut," was a federal law enacted in the United States in 1981. It was an Act "to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1954 to encourage economic growth through reductions in individual income tax rates, the expensing of depreciable property, incentives for small businesses, and incentives for savings, and for other purposes".^[1] Included in the act was an across-the-board decrease in the marginal income tax rates in the U.S. by 23% over three years, with the top rate falling from 70% to 50% and the bottom rate dropping from 14% to 11%. This act slashed estate taxes and trimmed taxes paid by business corporations by $150 billion over a five year period. Additionally the tax rates were indexed for inflation, though the indexing was delayed until 1985.
The Act's sponsors, Representative Jack Kemp of New York and Senator William V. Roth, Jr. of Delaware, had hoped for more significant tax cuts, but settled on this bill after a great debate in Congress. It passed Congress on August 4, 1981 and was signed into law on August 13, 1981 by President Ronald Reagan at Rancho del Cielo, his California ranch

[chivo]

Who created this mess?  As citizens we have created our government (of the people, by the people, for the people).  We can change it.  I predict November 2012 1) will be the most energized  election in modern times and 2) will offer starkly different choices.

I wish I could be as optimistic.
 
What's that definition for insanity again? 

[Gator]

If not, I think Obama will be determined enough to push through unilaterally with popular support.. Congress will argue themselves into oblivion..

It may be his only chance for reelection. 
 
Me asks myself, "Is that what Obama has up his sleeve?"    He wants to take this to the precipice and then be seen as the savior while Congress is wrangling.  Smart man, smart as Brer Rabbit, outfoxing the Republican Brer Fox himself  (from Uncle Remus:  Brer Rabbit cries "Please, Brer Fox, please don't throw me into the briar patch.")   [Please, no racial slurs intended.]

[GQBlues]

 If Warren wants to give back to the country/community by way of taxes, smart as he is - he shouldn't mettle in the middle of these politicians and do what J. Paul Getty had done instead.
 
His trust employs thousands who are both recession-proof and non-profit motivated. Each of these folks, in turn pay taxes and therefore are not a burden to society. This in addition to grants, scholarships, sponsorships, etc…a ‘gift’ that keeps on giving and growing both the society at large and the cultural pride it fosters. And yes, they do provide health insurance and advancement promotions within...
 
http://www.getty.edu/about/
 
http://www.getty.edu/visit/
 
Oh sure, both Buffet and Gates spread their wealth on many charitable causes, but doing this isn’t really the point. Giving a hungry man a fish isn’t really helpful in the long run.
 
One idea that comes to mind is, what don’t they just father the high speed rail transit so they can a) take it out of the stimulus bill (saving us the money), and they can in turn b) have the transit authorities generate enough non-profit revenues just enough to pay its employees and maintenance, etc…
 
I’m sure there’s a multitude of things they can do with their wealth to establish a venue/center, establishment, etc..that is self-sustaining i.e. whereas whatever monies it make is enough just to sustain its staff and facilities year-in, year-out.
 
If Warren wants to get into politics, he should say so and quit pandering around. By constantly doing what’s he’s doing, he’s no less a culprit to the congressional greed that diseased our politicians than the average lobbyist.
 
Lastly, if he is so firm with his conviction, on his own as no one is stopping him for signing over 'more' of his annual take than the mere $6.9 million his accounting staff worked out to be his share. Heck, he can even do this silently without the fanfare of the media.

[Gator]

I wish I could be as optimistic.
 
What's that definition for insanity again? 

If we do not change, we will have more Cowboy Poetry Festivals, a Senator Harry Reid earmark.
 

 
I would laugh, but this type of crap is typical