OTHER RACES

[Misha]

Is she "black" enough?

She is stunning. If I were single, and if she were willing to date me, I would not say no 

[Vasilisa]

According to recent ABC News, # of marriages between representatives of two ethnics is 28% up despite the general tendency of  contemporary people not to get married.   


Somebody told earlier that many FSUW might date black man, but they would never marry them or have children with them. I disagree with that opinion. My main reason for disagreement is the large # of mulatto babies that were born in Moscow after Olympic games.

Nowadays in Moscow you can be killed for your skin color, also the Olympics were in 1980 when the country was called  a Soviet Union when people were extremely curious about EVERYTHING foreign and were looking for the way out and ANY foreigner was a celebrity. Now the situation is different, most black people you can see in Moscow now are students from extremely poor African countries. Also, thinking of foreigners as of some top class of people and comparing Russians with Europeans and Americans isn't fashionable anymore, that was the tendency of the Soviet time and the 90-ies, now every time you start a phrase:"Europeans don't do this or do that" you can hear:"We are not Europeans, why do we have to look and act like them, we don't like being dressed like grey mice in unisex clothes, we want to wear genuine  fur coats, these foreigners don't have cold Russian winters, etc" Now more and more Russians get defensive when being compared with someone else, people get more patriotic.
So, I wouldn't compare the 80-ies and now.
I also admit that some women might want to have children with them, the question is  the % of these women to the whole # of women, the quality of these women. My guess would be low class women would find them cute , also very upper class like diplomats wouldn't mind dating black diplomats, too, as for the middle class of Russians nowadays I wouldn't say I know many people who would intentionally like to have families with black people.

[Daveman]

...I wouldn't say I know many people who would intentionally like to have families with black people.

I wouldn't say I know many either... emphasis on "intentionally" anyway...   My guesstimation, which seems obvious anyway, is that most people wish to build their families within their own race; a smaller percentage would be open to the interracial possibility under the right circumstances, and the smallest percentage would look exclusively outside his/her own race. 

[Boethius]

Soviet Union when people were extremely curious about EVERYTHING foreign and
were looking for the way out and ANY foreigner was a celebrity.

That's not completely true.  There were tens of thousands of foreign students in the USSR in the 1960's, 1970's, and 1980's.  African and Arab students generally faced hostility, not celebrity status.  It was also, generally throughout that time, extremely difficult to marry a foreigner, and also difficult to emigrate.

[Eduard]

That's not completely true.  There were tens of thousands of foreign students in the USSR in the 1960's, 1970's, and 1980's.  African and Arab students generally faced hostility, not celebrity status. 

Not my experience. I tend to agree with Vasilisa's assessment.

[Gator]

A place where women typically eschew black men is appealing for many white men.

"Many," Manny?  I thought the Ku Klus Klan, Aryan Nations, etc. were fringe groups.  These are sick people. 
 

[Boethius]

I talked to a lot of them, Eduard, as I went to the USSR as a foreign student.  They were very open about it to other foreign students.  Most of those I met were in Kyiv, but I met some from Moscow who had moved to Kyiv.    All of them, every single one, complained about the racism of Soviet society.  I remember one student from Lebanon, studying medicine.  He was extremely handsome, tall, sort of like a young, handsomer, and fairer version of Omar Sharif.  He should've had women falling all over him.  He said he could not date local girls and was always viewed with suspicion and hostility.  He had started his studies in Moscow in the late 1970's, and was in Kyiv when I met him, in the early 1980's.  He was near the end of his studies, and said he was very happy to be leaving. 

Having actually lived through this, I can also tell you that talking to a foreigner - generally, no problem.  Having a relationship with one - big, big problem.  You were on the state's "watch" list.  You would be called in for a "chat" and questioned.  Unless you were an informant, forget about going to university.  This happened even when Soviets entered into relationships with students from Eastern bloc countries.
 
 

[Gator]

It could be argued that it is a result of a deeply entrenched racist double-standard: when slavery was practiced for example, slave owners would have sexual relations with slaves (the men) but of course their wives were not allowed to have relations with the enslaved men...

     Misha, you are Canadian and as such not fully informed  about the South.  The novel Mandingo is not Uncle Tom's Cabin.

[Gator]

Is she "black" enough?

 
I am not sure I would survive.     

[OlgaH]

Not my experience. I tend to agree with Vasilisa's assessment.

Ed, here is an interesting read "A complaint to Nikita Khrushchev  from African Students" (in Russian)
http://www.africana.ru/racism/Russia/MGU.htm

There were a lot of negative things during the Soviet time that were hidden from the public. Prostitution, drugs and so on also existed in the USSR. The Komsomol and Communist party drunk orgies is not a myth either 

[Eduard]

I talked to a lot of them, Eduard, as I went to the USSR as a foreign student.  They were very open about it to other foreign students.  Most of those I met were in Kyiv, but I met some from Moscow who had moved to Kyiv.    All of them complained about the racism of Soviet society.  I remember one student from Lebanon, studying medicine.  He was extremely handsome, tall, sort of like a young, handsomer, and fairer version of Omar Sharif.  He said he could not date local girls and was always viewed with suspicion.  He had started his studies in Moscow in the late 1970's, and was in Kyiv when I met him, in the early 1980's.  He was near the end of his studies, and said he was very happy to be leaving. 

Having actually lived through this, I can also tell you that talking to a foreigner - generally, no problem.  Having a relationship with one - big, big problem.  You were on the state's "watch" list.  You would be called in for a "chat" and questioned.  Unless you were an informant, forget about going to university.  This happened even when Soviets entered into relationships with students from Eastern bloc countries.

I'm not trying to make this into an argument, I'm simply stating that my personal experience in regard to this was different. I knew several African students in Moscow and they all had Russian girlfriends. I knew a couple of guys who were the children of such couples. Soviet propaganda was very pro-black in those days, they used to talk a lot on the radio about racial discrimination and the suffering and plight of black people in America, Angela Davis was a household name! I don't discount your experience and it is quite possible that some of the students from Africa and Arab countries felt racism but personally I haven't met any who complained. And as far as I remember they were treated somewhat like celebrities just because they were foreigners. Probably just the fact that they could cross the USSR border and leave at any time awarded them a certain status simply because most ordinary USSR citizens couldn't do that.

[Boethius]

Ed, they would not complain to you because you were a Soviet citizen.  You could be an informant, and you could cause them a lot of trouble.  They could be expelled without finishing their free education.  And then what future would they have?  Mostly, when I first met them, these students would be all "It's so wonderful here, etc."  It was only once they realized you would not blab that they would open up.
 
For all you know, those Russian girlfriends were informants.  Even if the USSR was "pro African", it was still pretty xenophobic, and a Soviet citizen who had a lot of contact with foreigners, in my experience, was usually an informant.
 
I'm not trying to argue either, just telling you from the other side.

[Eduard]

Ed, here is an interesting read "A complaint to Nikita Khrushchev  from African Students" (in Russian)
http://www.africana.ru/racism/Russia/MGU.htm

There were a lot of negative things during the Soviet time that were hidden from the public. Prostitution, drugs and so on also existed in the USSR. The Komsomol and Communist party drunk orgies is not a myth either 

yes, I knew about the prostitutes, the orgies (and not just party elite but common young people as well) and I'm not saying that African students never experienced racist attitude from the locals. I'm saying that the ones that I knew had a great time there, had Russian girlfriends and never said anything to me personally in regard to racism.

[Eduard]

Ed, they would not complain to you because you were a Soviet citizen.  You could be an informant, and you could cause them a lot of trouble.  They could be expelled without finishing their free education.  And then what future would they have?  Mostly, when I first met them, these students would be all "It's so wonderful here, etc."  It was only once they realized you would not blab that they would open up.
 
For all you know, those Russian girlfriends were informants.  Even if the USSR was "pro African", it was still pretty xenophobic, and a Soviet citizen who had a lot of contact with foreigners, in my experience, was usually an informant.
 
I'm not trying to argue either, just telling you from the other side.

OK 

[Boethius]

You can be pretty certain that if those Russian girls were students, unexpelled, they definitely were informing on their boyfriends.  I guarantee it.

[Eduard]

You can be pretty certain that if those Russian girls were students, unexpelled, they definitely were informing on their boyfriends.  I guarantee it.

anything is possible, however they were 17 to 19 yo so couldn't be serious informers. Sure, they might have been called in occasionally for debriefing but they were in a real relationship with their boyfriends.

[Boethius]

They don't have to be "serious" though really, what is a "serious" informant?  Any information authorities received, from any source, ended up in a file. 
 
My husband's first "informant" was a third grade classmate.  Throughout their school years, he used to hang around my husband all the time.  The informant eventually went to university, married well, and became a KGB colonel, thanks to his FIL's connections, coupled with his years of fealty.
 
After the collapse, once it was evident the CPSU would not regain control of the FSU, the KGB colonel immediately dumped his wife and pursued one of their classmates.  My husband said she was a nice girl in school, not beautiful, but very, very kind.  She, like my hubby, came from the wrong class, and was constantly harassed at school.  Her status also made her unmarriageable in the city.  The KGB guy always had a thing for her, but career came first.   They married, are still married, and now have young twins.   He still works for the government.
 
Despite making my husband's life miserable, the guy still says to "Say hello." when he runs into my MIL.

[Misha]

     Misha, you are Canadian and as such not fully informed  about the South.  The novel Mandingo is not Uncle Tom's Cabin.

Thank you, I will have to read it.

[Eduard]

 
Despite making my husband's life miserable, the guy still says to "Say hello." when he runs into my MIL.

how sweet of him...

[Misha]

I am not sure I would survive.     

There are worse ways to go 

[Eduard]

There are worse ways to go 

+1 

[Kokopelli]

I think the first explanation is more probable. If it were mostly racism issue, then the question would be equally popular  among women. I have never heard about a woman who would ask her BF if he slept with a black girl to move on in the case of the affirmative answer.

I've lived in the suburbs of Detroit most of my life.

Equipment.....
It's not the size of the wand that pulls the rabbit out of the hat
but you can't make butter with a toothpick either.

I had a girlfriend in the 80's who was more than a little perturbed because I was talking to a BW.
Yes, the BW was very attractive.
The choice of adjectives used implied a level of superiority. I know more than a few who are like this.
How does a BW feel about a BM being with a WW?

 
I was told a BM is not a "man" until he has fathered children with different women; forget the exact number. Not all BM are like this, it depends on education, morals etc.
I've also heard that "getting a WW means you are taking one away from a WM". Sort of a prize.
With BW, they think getting a WM means he won't cheat on them.
These are generalizations but I have heard them much more than once.
So, who is insecure?

[Kokopelli]

Nowadays in Moscow you can be killed for your skin color.

There are parts in most major American cities you would not want to be in because you are white.
Highland Park, Michigan is an example.

[Kokopelli]

 
I am not sure I would survive.     

I wonder how that headline would read? 
BAD MAMA JAMA KILLS WHITE DEVIL!!!
It took the mortician 12 hours just to remove the smile from his face. 

You guys are easy. I thought I would have to pull out Dorothy Dandridge. 

[mendeleyev]

The photo is that of a Lumbee Indian recording artist, Jana Mashonee.

She is great! We play a few of her songs during the week along with her Christmas album around the holidays on the Smooth Jazz channel of www.MyFavoriteChannel.com


Aloe, along with Misha, Ade and others, Mrs Mendeleyeva and I find your photo to be very lovely.