Is she a scammer? My story and need advice

[Maxnin]

Hello,

I'm on my mid-twenties and I'm seeking to marry an Ukrainian lady. You might wonder if I am financially okay doing this, yes I am. I am really serious about marriage and I am seeking an Ukrainian lady for the same reasons most of you do. I've been researching a lot and reading a lot in this forum and other sources. Marriage is a serious step and I don't want to make the mistake of not taking other's advices.  I need your help guys to find out if this lady is a scammer or not.

It all started on HRB when a lady on her early-twinties sent me an email with general introduction letter talking about life and how positive she is, the kind of message she sends to a lot of guys as an introductory. I decided to go along and begin to correspond with her since she meets my requirements. It is now three months since we begin corresponding and since then we've been sending emails to each other almost daily and occasionally we chat. Her emails are genuine and she seems to grow fond of me after some time. I've even asked her once if we have a chance to be together (undirectly asking her if she is interested on me), but she told me that we have to meet to look each other in the eyes and see if we have chemistry between us, which is the right thing to do.

Just few weeks ago I activated the Intimacy Request, so I can meet her. She accepted and the I found out that her agency is Orchid, Cherkassy branch. I did some research about it on this forum and there were couple of guys complaining that that agency sometimes hire ladies to chat and correspond to guys (RED FLAG), but they also have geniune ladies who are really looking for love. There is a guy in this forum who actually married a lady from that agency.

Just few day ago, she mistakenlly sent me an email that is suppose to be an introductory email which is meant to be sent to another guy (RED FLAG), but the signature has different name (Regards, NAME) than her actual name. Few hours later she send me an email apologizing and telling me that her friend on the agency mistakenly sent an email through her account. That same night we were both online but she didn't initiate chat request, maybe because she is shy after what happened.

I've also search for ladies with that NAME on HRB or a name similar to that. I couldn't find anyone similar to that name that looks like her, live in the same city, have the same height, eye color and hair color. I've also checked her photo on a website (forgot the URL) that searches online to a similar photo, and found nothing.

I'm trying to be reasonable here. It seems that she is telling the truth for several reasons I'm mentioning below. Am I beign reasonable? Or maybe I'm blinded by the fact that I found someone who likes me and we share A LOT in common?
1- We have been corresponding for three months and she seems geniune
2- She is a clever lady, she does her research, she was talking to me about my town
3- She doesn't want to get so attached to me until we meet each other, which is the right way
4- However, she is fond of me because we have a lot in common
5- We have close ideology and thinking

Usually the way I correspond, I ask her the questions and wait for her answers before I answer them myselves.

I am suppose to meet her in two weeks. I've already booked the ticket and everything. I'm also meeting another lady in that same trip just in case, following people's advice in this forum.

Am I being framed?
Any advice would be appreciated.
I apologize for the long post

Thank you

[wicheese]

Maxnin,


First, welcome to the Forum and I will say that you are doing the right thing in reading the material here and elsewhere.  Also, if I understand how HRB works, you have already invested a few coins in this operation as you have to spend a certain amount to get to the point where you allowed to ask for an intimacy request (let me know if I'm wrong).   You may also find some people strongly defending HRB, but most of them seem to have a connection to the company in some manner, IMHO.  Then again, a few men have married women they met on the site, but even those stories can seem like tortured reading at times.


Anyways, anything is possible, but HRB is a pay-per-letter site and within each of these sites there is a huge potential for scamming (if only the scam is responding to your letters by a ghost writer).  I looked at this site some time back, when it was a hot topic here, and it did not give me any warm fuzzies.  In other words, I could never recommend such a site to a man looking in the FSU as there is too much risk (better to play a slot machine at your local casino).


OK, I'll put my rant against HRB and sites of their kind aside and say this, it's better than 50/50   that you might be writing someone who is not really interested in you (again, it's only my opinion).  Based on my experience, if an FSUW is really interested in you and you have been communicating for some time, she'll not only know your name, but she'll also remember all the little details you mention in your letter as they are vetting you as much as you are vetting them.  So if you have received the wrong letter (I would ask for any credit you used for it back from HRB as well), then there is a high chance that the agency is just a paper mill with poor quality control.  Not a situation I would want to take a chance with.


My recommendation is to just stop using HRB and any other pay-per-letter site and write off what you have already spent as sunk cost (trust me, I did the same thing after dropping more than a few coins with such sites).  Then find a site that is highly recommended and give it a try, because if you are in your 20's with good financial options, you will have lots of choices.  But, just be warned, if you do use a free site like mamba.ru (where I met my Fiancee) you will not get near the response rate you get on sites like HRB, which is not a bad thing because nobody has a financial interest in writing you, granted, scammers still do exist on those sites.


Bottom line, I would say it's best to stay away from the FSU adventure, unless you really like the adventure as you should have lots of options if you are only in your 20's.  Most men go because they are upgrading on the options available in their own countries, but most of those men (me included) are over the age of 40 when women gain weight and their youthful beauty fades, just like the men chasing them (yes, there is often a double standard at work). 


No matter what, good luck!

[ML]

. . . .   it's better than 50/50   that you might be writing someone who is not really interested in you . . . .


My recommendation is to just stop using HRB and any other pay-per-letter site and write off what you have already spent as sunk cost . . . .

This gets to the essence of a good recommendation to you.

If you do much reading here, you should have already understood that paying by the letter is a fools game.  The ladies (or men) who answer you are fairly good at what they do.  They know what to say and write to make you feel good about continuing.

Go directly to the free sites and monthly pay sites.  Do not look back.

[I/O]

Just few day ago, she mistakenlly sent me an email that is suppose to be an introductory email which is meant to be sent to another guy (RED FLAG), but the signature has different name (Regards, NAME) than her actual name.

That's the routine, wait long enough and they'll hang themselves. Serious women don't make this kind of mistake.

I am suppose to meet her in two weeks. I've already booked the ticket and everything.

Highly unlikely the lady you'll meet will look anything like you expect. Go figure.

I'm also meeting another lady in that same trip just in case

Personally, I've never been a fan of the visit many routine although I've done it, more than once but if you are playing the agency game, I suggest you line a few up.

Go, enjoy but don't fret the current target, I'm thinking you've been parted with a few coins for nothing.

[Faux Pas]

Maxnin,


First, welcome to the Forum and I will say that you are doing the right thing in reading the material here and elsewhere.  Also, if I understand how HRB works, you have already invested a few coins in this operation as you have to spend a certain amount to get to the point where you allowed to ask for an intimacy request (let me know if I'm wrong).   You may also find some people strongly defending HRB, but most of them seem to have a connection to the company in some manner, IMHO.  Then again, a few men have married women they met on the site, but even those stories can seem like tortured reading at times.


Anyways, anything is possible, but HRB is a pay-per-letter site and within each of these sites there is a huge potential for scamming (if only the scam is responding to your letters by a ghost writer).  I looked at this site some time back, when it was a hot topic here, and it did not give me any warm fuzzies.  In other words, I could never recommend such a site to a man looking in the FSU as there is too much risk (better to play a slot machine at your local casino).


OK, I'll put my rant against HRB and sites of their kind aside and say this, it's better than 50/50   that you might be writing someone who is not really interested in you (again, it's only my opinion).  Based on my experience, if an FSUW is really interested in you and you have been communicating for some time, she'll not only know your name, but she'll also remember all the little details you mention in your letter as they are vetting you as much as you are vetting them.  So if you have received the wrong letter (I would ask for any credit you used for it back from HRB as well), then there is a high chance that the agency is just a paper mill with poor quality control.  Not a situation I would want to take a chance with.


My recommendation is to just stop using HRB and any other pay-per-letter site and write off what you have already spent as sunk cost (trust me, I did the same thing after dropping more than a few coins with such sites).  Then find a site that is highly recommended and give it a try, because if you are in your 20's with good financial options, you will have lots of choices.  But, just be warned, if you do use a free site like mamba.ru (where I met my Fiancee) you will not get near the response rate you get on sites like HRB, which is not a bad thing because nobody has a financial interest in writing you, granted, scammers still do exist on those sites.


Bottom line, I would say it's best to stay away from the FSU adventure, unless you really like the adventure as you should have lots of options if you are only in your 20's.  Most men go because they are upgrading on the options available in their own countries, but most of those men (me included) are over the age of 40 when women gain weight and their youthful beauty fades, just like the men chasing them (yes, there is often a double standard at work). 


No matter what, good luck!

Good stuff. +1


Maxnin, count the money you've spent.


A sincere woman wouldn't have mistakenly sent you the intro letter all over again and if she did, you probably wouldn't want her anyway. Forget this one, get busy sending some intro's to the women in the city you were going to visit.


Good luck guy and welcome to RWD

[Boethius]

Consider using some of the free personals sites.  Alex from Lugansk, a commercial member, provided one link, which is on his website -

http://www.alexfriends.com/real-women-lugansk-ukraine.aspx

[ECOCKS]

Lots of fair advice up-thread but I'll add the tactic that is a pretty standard  move for your situation.

GET THE AGENCY OUT OF THE LOOP!

If you truly have "something" with a "real" someone, there should be NO issue with getting your communications switched over to Skype (or any VOIP system) and using personal emails. Simply tell the woman to email you at your personal address and then figure out your own schedules and contact methods. Don't accept any smoke or mirror tricks to divert you from this step. You met, that's the role of the agency, now you two need to take your relationship to the next level.

No more paying for "Intimacy Requests".
No credits for mail receipts/sends.
No Company translations.

If you simply MUST use a pay-per-letter service or even an agency with a monthly/quarterly/annual service fee (like Elena's) the rule still is as close to a basic law as can be imagined that YOU need to control the communications, not the company.

If she is really into you there won't be any problem with this and it eliminates the company from making money on communications. If she doesn't contact you, don't moon around and go back and pay to send her 6 more letters begging her to contact you to prove she's real. IF SHE'S REAL, SHE WILL CONTACT YOU.

Setup your trip, prepare your backup plan (another gal or six, vacation sightseeing, switching cities, whatever) and take your shot.

Best of Luck!

[clancyhound]

Setup your trip, prepare you backup plan (another gal or six, vacation sightseeing, switching cities, whatever) and take your shot.

Best advice!!
 
If you plan a trip with the mind set of a good vacation and sightseeing, you cant loose!!  The girl will be a bonus if you two can hit it off in person!   It all in the mind set.

[Gator]

Maxnin,
 
You have a trip so enjoy it.  I have a couple of guidelines for your trip:
 
 
Your following statement alarmed me:
 

... I'm seeking to marry an Ukrainian lady. 

That is the same as hanging a sign around your neck reading:  Wife Vacancy.  If you are so compelled to find a wife, you may overlook some key signs and go for the best of the lot you meet, when in fact none of them could be right for you.
 
Based on the agency's business model and what has happened, the odds  are against you that she is serious.  Are the odds in the "Forget It" category?   The positive facts in her favor are she has not asked for gifts, English lessons, and a friend to be your 24-7 interpreter.   
 
 
Does that mean you will confirm that upon arrival?  No, these same women are very good at continuing to play men in the dating phase (i. e., professional dater).   They are so good that you may not notice it.  You must assume that your primary woman is "wrong" until she proves herself right.  To take this to the next level (another meeting, not marriage) she must be really into you.  You have no questions. 
 
Also, meet more than one other woman.  A comparative analysis will help.  Your goal is to decide if UW warrant another trip (it is not "choose a wife").

[Maxnin]

Thank you guys a lot for your comments and advices. I really appreciate it.

OK, I'll put my rant against HRB and sites of their kind aside and say this, it's better than 50/50   that you might be writing someone who is not really interested in you (again, it's only my opinion).  Based on my experience, if an FSUW is really interested in you and you have been communicating for some time, she'll not only know your name, but she'll also remember all the little details you mention in your letter as they are vetting you as much as you are vetting them.  So if you have received the wrong letter (I would ask for any credit you used for it back from HRB as well), then there is a high chance that the agency is just a paper mill with poor quality control.  Not a situation I would want to take a chance with.


My recommendation is to just stop using HRB and any other pay-per-letter site and write off what you have already spent as sunk cost (trust me, I did the same thing after dropping more than a few coins with such sites).  Then find a site that is highly recommended and give it a try, because if you are in your 20's with good financial options, you will have lots of choices.  But, just be warned, if you do use a free site like mamba.ru (where I met my Fiancee) you will not get near the response rate you get on sites like HRB, which is not a bad thing because nobody has a financial interest in writing you, granted, scammers still do exist on those sites.


Bottom line, I would say it's best to stay away from the FSU adventure, unless you really like the adventure as you should have lots of options if you are only in your 20's.  Most men go because they are upgrading on the options available in their own countries, but most of those men (me included) are over the age of 40 when women gain weight and their youthful beauty fades, just like the men chasing them (yes, there is often a double standard at work). 


No matter what, good luck!

FYI, HRB do not take credit for reading emails. They only take credits for sending email as far as I'm concerned.
You are right, I should've went to other services rather than HRB, but I've already started and invested a lot on it and I'm going to be in Ukraine in two weeks. I'm not going to spend any more money on HRB for the next two weeks. I want to see how it goes there.

The reason I'm going to FSU is because women here are materialistic and divorce rate is so high. I do not want to get married to someone who might love me only temporarily. Most women here are also more career centric, I make enough money to support my self and my family to live more than awesome life and I would like my wife to give her full attention to me and her family and future kids. Yeah I'm a traditional person and it is not easy to find someone like this here. And I hate it when women here judge us by our car and house... etc. But that's life.

Do you have any other recommendations other than mamba.ru and EM? I'm gonna ditch HRB after this trip.

If you do much reading here, you should have already understood that paying by the letter is a fools game.  The ladies (or men) who answer you are fairly good at what they do.  They know what to say and write to make you feel good about continuing.

Go directly to the free sites and monthly pay sites.  Do not look back.

What do you recommend?

That's the routine, wait long enough and they'll hang themselves. Serious women don't make this kind of mistake.
Highly unlikely the lady you'll meet will look anything like you expect. Go figure.
Personally, I've never been a fan of the visit many routine although I've done it, more than once but if you are playing the agency game, I suggest you line a few up.

Go, enjoy but don't fret the current target, I'm thinking you've been parted with a few coins for nothing.

I figured out that she was at the agency's computer, forgot to logout and the next lady came in and used that same computer thinking that she is has already logged on, in a hurry. I know the chance of this happening is low, but there is still a tiny chance, similar things happens to us too in our daily life.

I've seen the way she looks because I've sent her flowers before and they sent me back her photo without makeup... twice.

I'm going the agency way because they provide services that makes it possible to marry an UL. Think about the language barrier and communication. But I might ditch the agency way... I've learned my lesson.

Good stuff. +1


Maxnin, count the money you've spent.


A sincere woman wouldn't have mistakenly sent you the intro letter all over again and if she did, you probably wouldn't want her anyway. Forget this one, get busy sending some intro's to the women in the city you were going to visit.


Good luck guy and welcome to RWD

Thanks

Consider using some of the free personals sites.  Alex from Lugansk, a commercial member, provided one link, which is on his website -

http://www.alexfriends.com/real-women-lugansk-ukraine.aspx

That's using the same service as mamba.ru. Thanks for sharing

Lots of fair advice up-thread but I'll add the tactic that is a pretty standard  move for your situation.

GET THE AGENCY OUT OF THE LOOP!

If you truly have "something" with a "real" someone, there should be NO issue with getting your communications switched over to Skype (or any VOIP system) and using personal emails. Simply tell the woman to email you at your personal address and then figure out your own schedules and contact methods. Don't accept any smoke or mirror tricks to divert you from this step. You met, that's the role of the agency, now you two need to take your relationship to the next level.

No more paying for "Intimacy Requests".
No credits for mail receipts/sends.
No Company translations.

If you simply MUST use a pay-per-letter service or even an agency with a monthly/quarterly/annual service fee (like Elena's) the rule still is as close to a basic law as can be imagined that YOU need to control the communications, not the company.

If she is really into you there won't be any problem with this and it eliminates the company from making money on communications. If she doesn't contact you, don't moon around and go back and pay to send her 6 more letters begging her to contact you to prove she's real. IF SHE'S REAL, SHE WILL CONTACT YOU.

Setup your trip, prepare your backup plan (another gal or six, vacation sightseeing, switching cities, whatever) and take your shot.

Best of Luck!

The problem, as I mentioned earlier, we need an agency to make communication possible due to language barrier and communication. Yeah I guess EM is my best bet. But they really have bad customer support on my experience. I've tried to register couple of times on that website and it is success. But when I login I keep getting the message "Login Error". I've emailed their customer support but they do not respond!

I've asked other ladies before to use an actual email (like hotmail or gmail) to communicate instead of the website, but they keep saying that they needs a translation service because they don't understand English. It can't be help, unless you got an idea?

Best advice!!
 
If you plan a trip with the mind set of a good vacation and sightseeing, you cant loose!!  The girl will be a bonus if you two can hit it off in person!   It all in the mind set.

I totally agree, part of the trip is to spend the vacation on sightseeing and enjoy it. I'm actually going there with my best friend for three reasons. First, as an excuse for my family that I'm going there for vacation not for wife hunting (sounds crazy XD). Second, as a sidekick so we could go enjoy it there on our free days, we are going to Lviv for few days for sightseeing. Third, for help and extra protection since Ukraine is a dangerous country.

Your following statement alarmed me:
 
That is the same as hanging a sign around your neck reading:  Wife Vacancy.  If you are so compelled to find a wife, you may overlook some key signs and go for the best of the lot you meet, when in fact none of them could be right for you.
 
Based on the agency's business model and what has happened, the odds  are against you that she is serious.  Are the odds in the "Forget It" category?   The positive facts in her favor are she has not asked for gifts, English lessons, and a friend to be your 24-7 interpreter.   
 
 
Does that mean you will confirm that upon arrival?  No, these same women are very good at continuing to play men in the dating phase (i. e., professional dater).   They are so good that you may not notice it.  You must assume that your primary woman is "wrong" until she proves herself right.  To take this to the next level (another meeting, not marriage) she must be really into you.  You have no questions. 
 
Also, meet more than one other woman.  A comparative analysis will help.  Your goal is to decide if UW warrant another trip (it is not "choose a wife").

I'm seeking for an Ukrainian wife IF POSSIBLE. You are right that they could be not right for me, I'm not obliged to stick with only UL,  I'll see how it goes when I meet them. I believe that my significant other can be from any part of the world and I don't want to tie myself geographically.

She didn't ask for a present, however, I sent her a present twice after asking her undirectly what kind of present does she like. It's also a move I did to see if that lady is real and if she is beautiful without makeup. A second time just to be sure. She did told me that the agency manager is her friend by the way, and her email is ere*ne_12@m*ail.ru (remove the two stars). I know it doesn't seem like the official email from the agency, but I've emailed HRB and the agency (arrival@orchid.org) to confirm if that's really her and they told me that she is using her personal email because they have trouble sometimes with their agency's email service (EMAIL@orchid.org).

I've read a lot about scamming stories when guys go meet UL, as soon as I see any red flag, I'm going to ditch her IMMEDIATELY with no sympathy whatsoever. If she came to me crying about family crisis, asking to go shopping, keep going to expensive restaurant, I'm going to ditch her on spot. I made it clear to her that one of the reason I'm seeking UL is that because I want a lady who doesn't spend a lot and is good at saving, meeting her is a chance to see that in action.

===================================================

We've been corresponding for few months now and she seems really interested on me. I also like her, but right now I'm thinking to ditch her for good because of the red flags I've mentioned. I'm not attached to her, but I want to be reasonable, you know sometimes strange things happens us, like when you drive your car and check your mirrors that the road is empty but suddenly you crash into a car that came out from nowhere, the same thing might happen to her with the mistaken introductory letter. I don't want to ditch her immediately without enough proof, because who knows, she might be a good person and she might be the one I'm looking for. However, I did some search today and I found some striking results.

The lady is featured on a video that was published by her agency as top 6 ladies from Cherk*a*ssy (remove the stars). I was a bit defensive about announcing her profile on my first post, but after what I found out when googling about it, I changed my mind. Her profile ID in HRB is 33*634*6 (remove the two stars). She is the 3rd lady on this video:
http://russianwomenblog.hotrussianbrid*es.com/post/Gor*geous-Single-Russian-Women-from-Cher*kassy-Ukraine-Video.aspx (remove the three stars)
She is also featured on some other FSU websites with the exact description.

I'm using stars so she or/and her agency can't Google her to this post.

So what do you guys think? Is she for real?
My guts tell me that she isn't and that many guys are corresponding her since she is featured on that video. I think I'm gonna ditch her unless someone convinced me otherwise. I'm going to ask for her name, email address, and phone number today and see how it goes. I'm sad that a beautiful and clever lady like her is a scammer, but life is not magical and fairytale.

I just wish I'll find a genuine beautiful lady that I could share my life with, and love her and beloved unconditionally, and have the same ideology.


Again, thank you guys a lot. I appreciate your help and your advices. Keep them coming One thing I learned from my short life, experience > knowledge.

[ECOCKS]

Max:

Re: Need for translation

It's only a problem if you make it one, don't make the process more difficult than it already is.

First, you can raise the bar on your search to exclude those needing translation, or not. It's YOUR search, not ours, we just offer advice. I will tell you that Paying for translation services is a commission sale for some agencies. Several of the guys can tell you that they have heard this response before and that it often ends up either indicating that the gal has no real interest in you or that they are not really interested in learning English (personality issue). It is, of course, possible that there is a young lady who cannot speak English, makes no effort to learn but dreams of living with a man who does. You be the judge on that likelihood.

Second, even if you are sure you found the love of your life and simply MUST have translation services, there are some 3rd parties who will do the translation for you on a per letter basis and you can mail them a check. You would then know the translator was working for you, not an agency.

Elena's is subject to technical issues but this is going to happen anywhere that technology is involved. While they are not the only one they are consistently mentioned as one where the agency itself isn't scamming you. There are of course, some women who may try to run their own game but few have serious complaints about EM.

[Maxx2]

http://angelikanetwork.com/latest/


You could use them and get the address, e-mail and phone number of the ladies of your choice and then contact them directly. I have had a lot of experience with them and their women are real although not always sincere (my Russian ex-wife was from them). You could search for women in a certain city, send them a introductory letter and then get over there ASAP  and meet them. This way no false expectations built up over months of letter writing. Like they say, "You learn more in 15 minutes of meeting someone than months of letter writing". I have found out that photographs are a poor method of measurement to what I am attracted to. Anyway just get over there ASAP as soon as you work out the details.

[Chelseaboy]

Maxnin
           Firstly,i'm no fan of the HRB/RLM girls,as can be seen on my other postings on this forum.
The majority of them are pro-daters.
However,you are a young man,so this girl may be genuinely interested in you.Like all the attractive girls on that site,she will be receiving a lot of mail,but most of your competition will be over 40 years of age,and most of them will also never go and visit her.
You've booked your trip i believe,so why not meet her anyway ?
As you say,if she shows signs of being a pro-dater,you can easily drop her,and you clearly know what to look for.
I was on that site,and she never contacted me,although the sixth girl on the video did.
I don't recall your girl doing eight hour all night chat sessions,with or without webcam either,so that's a good sign : )
The video itself,and her profile photo's are fine.She isn't dressed in provocative lingerie.
All i see is a girl trying to market herself the best way she can.Nothing wrong in that IMHO.
However,i've also done a check on her popularity,and out of 15 girls aged 20 from Cherkassy,she is the 2nd most popular,which is NOT a good sign.She will be so popular for a reason,and it's probably because she's communicating with many men : (
Try Lucky Lovers as a dating site.

[wicheese]

The reason I'm going to FSU is because women here are materialistic and divorce rate is so high. I do not want to get married to someone who might love me only temporarily. Most women here are also more career centric, I make enough money to support my self and my family to live more than awesome life and I would like my wife to give her full attention to me and her family and future kids. Yeah I'm a traditional person and it is not easy to find someone like this here. And I hate it when women here judge us by our car and house... etc. But that's life.

Maxnin,


Lots of nice women in the FSU, I have found one and I know a few other men who have as well, but there are a couple of myths that are pushed by the big agencies in there quest to keep the cash machine turning. [Edit: mostly that they are so family orientated and are just looking for a nice man because all the ones there are so bad]


1. Women are more family orientated.  Well, this is partly true, especially in regards to how I have seen most FSUW look after children, but this is no guide to long lasting marriages as the FSU has a higher divorce rate than here in the USA.  Also, no good (reliable) numbers exist for the success rates between FSUW and WM, but based on the sample I have come in contact with, it's pretty high.  As one UW, who lives here in the middle of America said when I asked her what the success rate is for FSUW & AM, she answered, "they all end up getting divorced".  From what I have witnessed, it has proven to be true (in some ways I must be a little crazy myself for going through with it  ). 


2. It has been my experience that FSUW are more materialistic than their WW counterparts.  From what I have seen, most FSUW can size up a person in seconds by what they are wearing and yes, they know their brands (I'm always amazed by how fast they can pick things out).


3. Most FSUW are strong women and will want their own careers, at least this was true with those I dated over the years.  So be prepared to be judged by your education and job as they want a successful man, just like AW.  Granted, my sample can be misleading as I also looked for pretty successful women as I hoped to avoid the economic migrants.


Anyways, just be warned that women are women the world over and in the FSU dating game, there is more than a little smoke obscuring the truth.  Hence, go slowly and don't rush into things as the type of lady you are looking for does exist, but just like here, you might need to go through a couple to find the one for you.  Hence, why many people are wishing you good luck as it never hurts.

[tfcrew]

2. It has been my experience that FSUW are more materialistic than their WW counterparts.   

Absolutely.
In fact, I believe it's time to just drop 'former Soviet Union' from the title of the countries.

Michele Bachman notwithstanding....


I mean do we still refer to the USA as the 'the former British colonies'?



 


 


 
 

[Manny]

The mistake here is arranging a meeting having never spoken on the telephone.

People who want to date talk on the phone. Language barriers are overcome by three way calls with an interpreter.

Meet women you have developed telephone and SMS rapport with. If you don't, its a crap shoot irrespective of which site you choose to facilitate initial introduction.

[Gator]

I mean do we still refer to the USA as the 'the former British colonies'?

Just a few Tories exiled to Bermuda or Newfoundland.

[ML]

I mean do we still refer to the USA as the 'the former British colonies'?

You are trying to compare apples to oranges.

USA is one country.  The FSU refers to several countries.

FSU is a easy way to get the point across as to the area we are talking about rather than listing all the individual countries.

[tfcrew]

Some if not many from the FSU strongly resent being referred to as such.
Any  Lithuanian will certainly testify.
Might as well say former Nazi Germany.
So we might cease the platitudes there.

[chivo]

Lots of nice women in the FSU, I have found one and I know a few other men who have as well, but there are a couple of myths that are pushed by the big agencies in there quest to keep the cash machine turning. [Edit: mostly that they are so family orientated and are just looking for a nice man because all the ones there are so bad]


1. Women are more family orientated. Well, this is partly true, especially in regards to how I have seen most FSUW look after children, but this is no guide to long lasting marriages as the FSU has a higher divorce rate than here in the USA. Also, no good (reliable) numbers exist for the success rates between FSUW and WM, but based on the sample I have come in contact with, it's pretty high. As one UW, who lives here in the middle of America said when I asked her what the success rate is for FSUW & AM, she answered, "they all end up getting divorced". From what I have witnessed, it has proven to be true (in some ways I must be a little crazy myself for going through with it ).

Depends what stat you look at. From the ones I've seen the USA has a higher divorce rate although not by much.

If you just go by this board and its members I would say it's (the divorce rate) consistant with the national average per country.

2. It has been my experience that FSUW are more materialistic than their WW counterparts. From what I have seen, most FSUW can size up a person in seconds by what they are wearing and yes, they know their brands (I'm always amazed by how fast they can pick things out).

Don't agree with this, certainly not from my experience.

Sure they want nice things and a better life, but who doesn't? I find them overall less materialistic than AW. Yes there is a segment of RW like you describe as being overly materialistic, but they are most definitely in the minority, maybe 10%.
 
That your woman is leaving a great job, family/friends, etc. to be with you bears this out. How many AW would drop a great paying job/career, family, friends, etc. to be with a man?

3. Most FSUW are strong women and will want their own careers, at least this was true with those I dated over the years. So be prepared to be judged by your education and job as they want a successful man, just like AW. Granted, my sample can be misleading as I also looked for pretty successful women as I hoped to avoid the economic migrants.

I agree that most want a career and an educated man, but let's not overestimate their (RW) education level (as many do on this forum) as many are just not that smart degree notwithstanding .

Anyways, just be warned that women are women the world over and in the FSU dating game, there is more than a little smoke obscuring the truth. Hence, go slowly and don't rush into things as the type of lady you are looking for does exist, but just like here, you might need to go through a couple to find the one for you. Hence, why many people are wishing you good luck as it never hurts.

Agree and would add to learn more about Russian culture, or as much as you can because that is what separates people, their culture and mentality. And that is the biggest factor in an AM/WM being successful in the short term IMO, understanding the subtle differences in mentality and being able to roll with it. Long term the differences in culture will even out some and then it will be more like any other relationship.

[ECOCKS]

You are trying to compare apples to oranges.

USA is one country.  The FSU refers to several countries.

FSU is a easy way to get the point across as to the area we are talking about rather than listing all the individual countries.

On target ML. It provides a way of referring to a group of countries just as it would talking about the Confederacy, the former British Empire or the Aztecs in a historical context. Until these countries distinguish themselves individually to world geographic literacy includes all the -stans, Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova, Transnistra and such it's a handy way to reference them. The Baltic States always had more identity and, as EU members, have moved to establish their identities both politically, economically and socially. Still they will be referred to in history books that way but their time for contemporary usage has passed.

[Daveman]

...
Don't agree with this, certainly not from my experience.

Sure they want nice things and a better life, but who doesn't? I find them overall less materialistic than AW. Yes there is a segment of RW like you describe as being overly materialistic, but they are most definitely in the minority, maybe 10%.
 
That your woman is leaving a great job, family/friends, etc. to be with you bears this out. How many AW would drop a great paying job/career, family, friends, etc. to be with a man?
I agree that most want a career and an educated man, but let's not overestimate their (RW) education level (as many do on this forum) as many are just not that smart degree notwithstanding .

I concur with your assessment.  IMO, the majority of FSU ladies who specifically seek out foreign men are from that (estimated) 10% or so grouping.  I believe there is a distinct mentality involved in those who make a choice to seek out foreigners (much the same as in the subgroup of men who seek foreign women).  Of course the reasons behind their choices varies individually, but from what I have observed and generalizing for the groups - FSUW who specifically seek out foreign men have a tendency to be much more materialistic, status crazy, etc. than those who don't.  Unfortunately, most guys are exposed only to this group.

Agree and would add to learn more about Russian culture, or as much as you can because that is what separates people, their culture and mentality. And that is the biggest factor in an AM/WM being successful in the short term IMO, understanding the subtle differences in mentality and being able to roll with it. Long term the differences in culture will even out some and then it will be more like any other relationship.

Completely agree here.  Yes, women are women everywhere... but those subtle differences exist.  It certainly ain't rocket science, but those subtleties can lead to differences between expectation and observation - which usually lead only to what I like to call the "WTF? Experience", but can be much more severe (been there, done that too).  Learning to "roll with it" as you say is fundamentally key.  Part of "rolling with it", IMO, is being able to transform the severe into "WTF?", and then transforming "WTF?" into understanding the subtle differences in roles, behavior, and expectation.


But, what do I really know? Not a hell of a lot.  Women, by design, are meant to be the ultimate combination of pleasure and pain. heh...


Now, I'll be the first to admit that I'm certainly no expert on Russian or Ukrainian culture - even within those countries culture(s) vary (sometimes significantly) regionally - while still maintaining similarities. 

[Jumper]

The mistake here is arranging a meeting having never spoken on the telephone.

People who want to date talk on the phone. Language barriers are overcome by three way calls with an interpreter.

Meet women you have developed telephone and SMS rapport with. If you don't, its a crap shoot irrespective of which site you choose to facilitate initial introduction.

good advice.
 
 
 
Max-

So what do you guys think? Is she for real?

The odds?
She is a real person, who may be interested in you as a
young serious man.
 
The odds are incredibly great she is working in chat.
Shes online now,, seems a typical HRB shift work IMHO.
She is only 20 , so her level in interest in marriage could be anywhere from 0-10 on the 0-10 scale
 

I think I'm gonna ditch her unless someone convinced me otherwise.

as mentioned just because it may be  her job to chat with men, doesn't mean she wouldnt be interested in you.
You are at least in her age range,and far younger than 90% of men contacting her.
 
No ones going to try and convince you its a good idea to go visit a chat girl from HRB.
 
Its up to you to decide if YOU think you are someone she might have genuine interest in..
and the only real way to find out is to see her in person.
 

I'm going to ask for her name, email address, and phone number today and see how it goes. I'm sad that a beautiful and clever lady like her is a scammer, but life is not magical and fairytale.

The realities of life there, is that IF she is working,
its likely the only job she could hold that would pay anywhere near that level in her provincial city.period.
For a 20yo , its like going from a $100-$200 a month salary,
 to $1000-$1500 in a ecomomically depressed area.
dwell on that.
Yes, she may scam men when they visit , she may not!
She may  chat and email..and few men, if any, ever come to actually meet her.
 
i'm not making excuses for her, but you are imposing western scenarios ,standards , and situation,
 on a person living elsewhere in a  entirtely different situation and cultural expectation.
I can tell you very few of her friends would likely view her as a scammer.. for writing or chatting at this agency,
as she quite possible is interested in meeting a man,
just not the 90% of married ,older guys ,that use HRB as a form of entertaintment that she gets paid well to correspond with,
 that is her *likely*  reality,
 it might not be yours.
 
She may date locally!! at 20 this is very very  likely.
So don't be naive.If the local 20 blonde girl dates in your city, this one does in her city.
 She may also be open to meeting you, or even  very interested. It's impossible to know at this juncture.
 
Only you can decide if you can accept the scenario for what it is, and take your chances accordingly.
 
What it likely is,  is that you met a girl at work,
you may have caught her interest,
 or she may be involved locally, and just working.
 
If she's seriously interested , you bought her conrtact info? so should be able to speak directly with her and hopefully find out a little before your actual trip.
 
If you do decide to go.. then have some idea of what to do if it goes south.
 
Good luck either way..
 
 

[Maxnin]

I guess opinions vary and there is a chance that she is honest. I'm going to take chances and meet her. There is nothing to lose except few hundreds dollars which is manageable with my savings and worth the shot.

She couldn't give me her contact information because that against the agency's policy. She told me that she talks to other men online but never met anyone because none of them are young, near her age range, nor are they serious with their venture. I think the odds are she is an honest person who is looking for a husband by using the agency's means.

There is chance she will like me. I'm an average looking guy (if not a bit below average) but I'm young, we have way a lot of ideas in common, financially stable, easy going, modest, and very fit, as in health and physique. I'll let ya all know how it goes.

Thank you all very much

[ECOCKS]

Max:


If she told you she couldn't give her name and address info due to agency policy then you're being scammed.


Get your backup plan in place and meet her if you wish to cling to the fantasy but my bet is you're wasting your time.