RW with children: pros and cons

[Faux Pas]

Lily, I traveled a very great many places in my mid to late 30's, met a wide variety of people form a wide variety of backgrounds and unfortunately I have to disagree, of course I met exceptional people and present company is certainly exempted but for the most part, Ed is right although it applies to both men and women. Late 30's or more, never married, high percentage of whack jobs.

That's not what he said

Here is my 2 cents on the topic.
I occasionally come across women in their mid and even late 30s who are childless and through the years I discovered that it's almost inevitable that these childless women have "issues". Initially my clients get excited about finding a woman of that age range without a child, but later always make a decision to move on because certain personality issues do seem to always pop up in the course of correspondence and getting to know each other.
So basically in most cases there is a reason why these women are both single and childless... Off course some couldn't have a child for health reasons but I haven't come across any one of those women. Usually it is more about being selfish, selfabsorbed, with psychological and even psychiatric issues.

Quite a different scenario than your one liner. Lily would fall into Eduard's categorisation as would many women. Do you just shrug it off as she's the exception? Then the next and the next. I don't doubt there are some men and women who never marry until late in life may have some issues. There are many that married early or at a more appropriate that have serious issues as well. The idea that children is proof that they are less likely to have "issues" than those who have no children is quite absurd. Children have nothing to do with it.

[GoodOlBoy]

The idea that children is proof that they are less likely to have "issues" than those who have no children is quite absurd. Children have nothing to do with it.

Quite true!
 
We have a "laundry list" of women's names right her in the GoodOl' USA to back up FP's statement: Susan Smith, Casey Anthony...........
 
GOB
 
 

[I/O]

FP and GOB:

there is a reason why these women are both single and childless

I don't see where there is an implication that childless alone = abnormal but I do see the implication that single + late 30's + childless = abnormal. Anyway, you guys are welcome to debate that back and forth as you see fit.
 
My primary reasons for poking my nose into this thread are at least, 1) most people commenting on marrying women with children, particularly if they don't or didn't have children themselves, haven't a clue what they are talking about, 2) steering guys this way because it might seem there are more available (read gettable) Smokinhotkovas is dangerous, 3) Smokinhotkovas are on the shelf in Russia if they have kids is not entirely accurate (I could introduce several examples), 4) most of all, I want any guy who might go this way, with or without children, to carefully consider the children first.
 
 

[Faux Pas]

FP and GOB: I don't see where there is an implication that childless alone = abnormal but I do see the implication that single + late 30's + childless = abnormal. Anyway, you guys are welcome to debate that back and forth as you see fit.

I'm not interested in a debate on the topic. Eduard's remarks were plainly and simply wrong. As Lily alluded to, likely related to his target audience yet, that doesn't lend it any credibility. Your agreeing with him would certainly be perceived that way.
 

My primary reasons for poking my nose into this thread are at least, 1) most people commenting on marrying women with children, particularly if they don't or didn't have children themselves, haven't a clue what they are talking about,

I've had and raised more than my fair share so, yes I do have a clue about kids but, that isn't the bone of contention here as is, childless women at 30+ are probably psycho.

2) steering guys this way because it might seem there are more available (read gettable) Smokinhotkovas is dangerous, 3) Smokinhotkovas are on the shelf in Russia if they have kids is not entirely accurate (I could introduce several examples), 4) most of all, I want any guy who might go this way, with or without children, to carefully consider the children first

Good luck with that one.

[I/O]

Good luck with that one.

Lol, yes indeed, like you, how I want it to be and how it is may be different.
 

[XMan]

So does this mean a woman with 2 children is an even worse idea?   
Perhaps so.
I've been communicating with several women, each of whom has a child of 8 years or less.  I think it's far more challenging, above a certain age, to find a woman without a child.  Unless, of course, the child is over 18.  Even then I wonder how many women would leave their semi-adult children behind.  Maybe it happens all the time.  I have no idea.
 

[ECOCKS]

Why would that be? When I lived in Seattle, my 23 year old lived in Baltimore, my 18 year old in Denver. Mom lived in rural So California and Jacksonville. All the grandparents lived in Memphis.

The global village is here.

One kid, two kids, 24, 38, just keep your radar on and be honest with yourself.

[Eduard]

Yes, it is sad to read this from Ed. For instance, I don't consider myself damaged or with any issues.

Lily, I'm sorry that you are taking this personally. I didn't know your situation and was simply telling about my personal experience. And off course it's a generalization. Seems like I/O had the same experience, so I'm not the only one.
This goes both ways, by the way. Many RW consider a man over 40 who has never been married and has no kids to be a "red flag". Are they right? Probably in many cases they are, but surely there are exceptions.

At the same time, it might be beneficial for Ed's business to try to draw his clientele's attention to women with kids.

I wish you didn't have to make this about "Ed's self promotion". This is a serious issue that most men in their mid 40s and older have to deal with. IME there is a very limited number of available, childless, normal women of the "right" age for these men, so many of them will consider a RW with a child. I think it is beneficial for them to understand what they are getting into, the pros and the cons, hence the reason I started this thread. I'm sure that most men of the above mentioned age are already dealing with this issue so there's no need to "to draw their attention to women with kids", many are already talking with women who have a child.  I thought that discussion  could help them avoid certain pitfalls or realize that maybe they are not ready to deal with all the issues that go along with marrying a RW with a child.

I think that this has been a very interesting, insightful discussion so far. Surely there will be different points of view and disagreements. Sometimes we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Eduard]

Newbies, pay very close attention to what this nice RW just said.
 
In GOB's mind, this would be a huge RED FLAG the size of a football field.
 
JMHO....But anyone that would go into a relationship with somebody who is willing to "settle for less" for the sake of their child(ren's) welfare is asking for big troubles in the future.

IMO, it's not a given. Much depends on the parties involved. We all have to make compromises in life. Women with children make them probably more often than men or childless women. Even if she does settle for less than her or others around her might think she "deserves". But if she is basically a good woman with good values, I think a man could win her love and respect, if he is a giver and has a kind heart. I'm not talking about money, but rather little things that he does on a day to day basis that show her that he deeply cares about her and her child's well being. IMO a woman can develop warm, loving feelings toward such man.

Don't marry someone that is hell bent on using you.

Now this is a given!
 

[I/O]

Many RW consider a man over 40 who has never been married and has no kids to be a "red flag". Are they right?

In general, yes, I think they are.
 
Mrs (and friends) attitude, if he's over 35, never married, no kids, check the fine print.

[ECOCKS]

In general, yes, I think they are.
 
Mrs (and friends) attitude, if he's over 35, never married, no kids, check the fine print.

Red? I'd say a yellow is more deserved.

[ambach123]

When I was looking I had eliminated any woman with child. I thought an international marriage is hard enough, adding children to the mix can add more problems. It does narrow your field quite a bit; since many of the RW looking for WM have children.

A very wise decision, at least for me. I am very happily married to RW for over a year, we are expecting our daughter in a few months. We are both overjoyed and it sure has brought us very close.

I agree with Lily that there could be many good reasons she is childless.

There used to be member here, who married a girl from Kharkov, I believe he lived in Ukraine for a while, he made an observation that only those AM/RW relationships survive that have common child or children. I don't know enough to comment on this.

[BC]

There used to be member here, who married a girl from Kharkov, I believe he lived in Ukraine for a while, he made an observation that only those AM/RW relationships survive that have common child or children. I don't know enough to comment on this.

I am sure childless marriages are not doomed simply because they are childless, but yes kids can make cause for pause and reflection when panties get bunched.  They also provide a healthy portion of common interests and goals to balance disparity.

[Eduard]

In general, yes, I think they are.
 
Mrs (and friends) attitude, if he's over 35, never married, no kids, check the fine print.

So then why shouldn't it apply to women?

[BillyB]

 "ones most at risk" = THE CHILDREN

 
A few people agree with this but everyday a child lives without one or more of their parents is not good. Below average parents that can get along are better than one no parents. A child is at risk if a guy doesn't get along with the mother or remains non existent in the child's life.
 
 
 

Yes, it is sad to read this from Ed. For instance, I don't consider myself damaged or with any issues.

 
Everybody in whatever circumstances should be judged as individuals but I understand Ed view of certain groups of people are riskier than others. 40 yo unmarried and virgin men for example. I've heard of women with over 10 abortions, no children and never been married either. Maybe she's been partying all her life? Maybe she's been unlucky and lived through unfortunate circumstances? Most of us would bet she was partying.
 
 
I dated a RW in her mid forties who had no children. She had one abortion due to pressure from her ex husband. She lives with regret she could never have children. I didn't get the impression she was a bad woman.
 
 
 

I've yet to see a single FSUW, especially one with a small boy, who would be a 'blessing' to any one man. There's enough members here who can attest the challenges of having to deal with not just the single FSU mother, but with an almost guaranteed spoiled rotten, undisciplined young boy...

 
I'll agree most children who grow up without fathers are less disciplined than those who grow up with fathers. If a guy wants to marry a woman with children, they need to communicate what the father's role is going to be. When a man tells a child to do something and the child goes crying to mommy, the man needs to understand what mommy is going to do. If he doesn't like it, he shouldn't marry her.
 
 
In my first and only marriage I married a RW with a child. He was 3 yo and a little wild but I got to discipline him my way. My way is when a child makes mistakes, I give him/her a choice. Take a "time out" sitting in the bathroom to think about what they have done or to get spanked. My kids always takes the "time out" and never makes the same mistake again. If they did make the same mistake again, I will show them the importance keeping ones word in an agreement. I did spank the child twice without a choice when he through rocks at a window of a car that was abandoned and tried to open grandpa's truck door using screwdriver. I was sure a spanking was better than a time out to teach him to respect other people's property.
 
 
Most people including kids love discipline although they don't initially show it. Discipline earns respect and respect earns love. As the boy was growing up, he'd put on my clothes and shoes and pretend he was me. His mother actually grew jealous when he started to love me more than her.
 
 
I can imagine some men marrying RW without understand what the RW will or will not allow him to do when disciplining children. Some RW will not spank their child no matter what he/she does. A child may go out of control making a mess, breaking things, insulting parents, stealing things, a man needs to be prepared later in life if he's giving all rights to discipline children to his wife. If parents can't properly discipline their children, eventually society will through the judicial system and jail. The loving parents will pay for their mistake to attorneys and for bail bonds.
 
 
My fiancee and I talked about my kids and she told me she doesn't want to upset them when she comes into my life and she will not run their lives. I told her they will like her and she needs to tell them what to do and if she tells them to take out the garbage, they better do it. I will always back her up because she will be an authority over the kids.
 
 
 

[Eduard]

@BillyB: Excellent post! Thanks!

[BC]

My fiancee and I talked about my kids and she told me she doesn't want to upset them when she comes into my life and she will not run their lives. I told her they will like her and she needs to tell them what to do and if she tells them to take out the garbage, they better do it. I will always back her up because she will be an authority over the kids.

May I ask how old your kids are Billy?  Are they living with you?

[LAman]

   My fiancee and I talked about my kids and she told me she doesn't want to upset them when she comes into my life and she will not run their lives. I told her they will like her and she needs to tell them what to do and if she tells them to take out the garbage, they better do it. I will always back her up because she will be an authority over the kids.

I disagree with you Billy. If you read books pertaining to raising step kids it is always the blood parent that should exercise the authority, especially early in marriage. It also does depend on age, where an older child can become more defiant toward the step parent......and turn into resentment.

[Lily]

So then why shouldn't it apply to women?

Because of differences in dating dynamics in the FSU. You know it better than many people in America The dating situation in the FSU is distinct by abundance of qualify marriageable women, and lack of quality marriageable men. Men have more choices in the FSU than women. That's why.

Women are a kind of natural 'judges' of men, sorry for this word. They notice quality men around, and try to attract him. Women decide which man will have a chance of reproduction, so to speak. In the FSU, this tendency among women is stronger; in the West where the standards of life is better and women have a chance for a good life even without a protector, this tendency is weaker. This prompts a number of RW believe that marriage will solve a number of their problems. Women tend to plan their life taking into account an 'obligatory' marriage, and are actively seeking a good guy. They believe that the man will solve their problems, they entrust themselves to him. By actively seeking, I mostly mean that they do their best to be attractive. It does not mean that they will go onto a straight competition. Some do not like the idea. But I hope that you know what I mean. This is why WM like RW
 

[Boethius]

 

In the FSU, this tendency among women is stronger; in the West where the standards of life is better and women have a chance for a good life even without a protector, this tendency is weaker.

Interesting.  I have always believed this, but one poster has asserted that RW have the same opportunities as WW.

[BillyB]

May I ask how old your kids are Billy? Are they living with you?

Biological son 10 yo and non biological son 15 yo. I see them every week but they live with mommy.

I disagree with you Billy. If you read books pertaining to raising step kids it is always the blood parent that should exercise the authority, especially early in marriage. It also does depend on age, where an older child can become more defiant toward the step parent......and turn into resentment.

I haven't read "the books" but does the books say the blood parent no matter how bad he/she is should still exercise the authority to raise children? I still believe both parents should and that the blood parent should back the non blood parent up everytime. If there's any disagreements, it should be done in private. If there's too many disagreements, they failed to communicate before marriage and shouldn't have gotten married to begin with.


Children wouldn't resent the authority of the non blood parent if the blood parent backed him/her up. The child would have to resent both parents if that were the case but most likely the child will be learning some valuable lessons in life and hopefully they would apply it to their life and identify the right husband/wife to marry. One that works together instead of against.


If I got involved with a woman that had a teenage child, I would talk to that teenager the same way I talked to their mother when asking what I, a man, a husband, meant in her life. I would ask what does a father mean to you? Do you think a husband is a good thing for your mother? What do you think a father's role is in the family?


If the teenager is resenting the talk or giving me bad answers such as I don't need a father and it's not important, then I would think the child's mother failed to teach their children the importance of a father. It's a fact some women tell their children all their past husbands/boyfriends were no good. If the talk didn't go well with the child, I wouldn't marry the mother and I wouldn't put myself in the position to be resented. Mother and child is the package deal so if I'm not loved by both, then I don't marry the package.


I already know my fiancee is going to be reluctant to tell my kids what to do. I don't have to worry that she's a dictator from day one. What I worry about is her not telling the kids what to do enough. If I see her trying to take out the garbage, I will stop her and tell her to tell one of my sons to do it. My kids are good at responding to new people. Sometimes with me they try to negotiate for more time on the tv or games before doing their chores.


If mommy taught the kids well, they will be happy to have a full time father and mommy have extra joy in her life. Most kids tend to be on the right track and understand things if a potential father comes into their life and communicates with them. I've dated women with kids and if anything, it's the women that act like teenagers sneaking me into their house and telling me to be quiet. I tell those women "why? Kids eventually have to learn what adults are doing behind closed doors and being sneaky isn't teaching them anything good."

[I/O]

So then why shouldn't it apply to women?

Of course it does.

[Misha]

Interesting.  I have always believed this, but one poster has asserted that RW have the same opportunities as WW.

Who is this "one" poster    Let me guess...

[Eduard]

Because of differences in dating dynamics in the FSU. You know it better than many people in America The dating situation in the FSU is distinct by abundance of qualify marriageable women, and lack of quality marriageable men. Men have more choices in the FSU than women. That's why.

Lily, where were you when the mob of WM was chasing after me with frying pans and baseball bats, screaming "Liar!!! Service provider hype!!!" for saying basically the same thng 
Everyone from Russia knows that this is a fact. Nevertheless I think that more often than not the more attractive women have been in at least in one serious relationship or marriage where a child was produces by the time they are in their mid and upper 30s. Lily, I haven't met you in person, but from reading your posts I think you are a wonderful lady. But it doesn't change my experience of talking to quite a few childless RW in their mid 30s to mid 40s where it felt that something was off or where "the issues" became obvious once a conversation got beyond the basics. Actually these conversations were between my clients and these women, I was translating but both my clients and I agreed that it was better to move on.
In the last couple of years I've had several clients in their late 40s to late 50s who were going after the women in their mid 30s to early 40s. Some of these men really preferred to find a lady without a child, so we focussed our search on that and found several. But at the end, when the women started opening up after 2-3 weeks of communication my clients and I agreed that we'd better move on.

[Anotherkiwi]

In my first and only marriage I married a RW with a child. He was 3 yo and a little wild but I got to discipline him my way. My way is when a child makes mistakes, I give him/her a choice. Take a "time out" sitting in the bathroom to think about what they have done or to get spanked. My kids always takes the "time out" and never makes the same mistake again. If they did make the same mistake again, I will show them the importance keeping ones word in an agreement. I did spank the child twice without a choice when he through rocks at a window of a car that was abandoned and tried to open grandpa's truck door using screwdriver. I was sure a spanking was better than a time out to teach him to respect other people's property...
 
I can imagine some men marrying RW without understand what the RW will or will not allow him to do when disciplining children. Some RW will not spank their child no matter what he/she does. A child may go out of control making a mess, breaking things, insulting parents, stealing things, a man needs to be prepared later in life if he's giving all rights to discipline children to his wife. If parents can't properly discipline their children, eventually society will through the judicial system and jail. The loving parents will pay for their mistake to attorneys and for bail bonds...

I was spanked when I was a child when I deserved it, and I soon learnt what the limits of acceptable behaviour were.  However, I probably would prefer the "time out" option these days, especially as it is now illegal here to spank your child.