Translation Software

[ShamusD]

Hi,

 

I am new to all of this and this is my first posting.

I ahve been looking at a couple of site for about a month now and I am starting to cooerspond with a few ladies.

I was wondering if any of yo have used any Russian to Eglish translation software. I did a search on googles and there are lots of products out there. Does any one have any reccomendations?

I am also interested in trying to teach my self Russian, anyone have any good text of software you would reccomend?

Thanks

ShamusD

 

 

 

 

[andrewfi]

No translation software works well enough to convey any real depth of nuance to the reader. So no recommendations from me for that purpose.

If you want to translate enough so that basic data such as times places etc are correctly translated then try this site: www.translate.ru Do not try to use it for translating things like your beliefs, wishes aspirations etc, these will all be mangled hopelessly.

A very important factor ignored by many users is this: Translation software only works with what it is given. If your spelling, grammar and sentence construction are not perfect then the software will work even less well. So, unless you are confident that you are able to produce near perfect English, then you will be better off paying a translator who can translate your 'dialect' of written English into something a person who does not speak or read English will be able to understand.

Relationships stand or fail by one's ability to communicate. Do not waste your time on software solutions to people problems!

[ShamusD]

Who are you?

Where areyou from? where do you live?

Why did you reply to my posting?

ShamusD

[BC]

Shamus,

Do you not want replies to your questions?

On the left side of posts under the username you can usually see where the member lives.

For example you live in San Antonio, TX

Andrew also shows where he lives.  You can even click on usernames and find additional personal information the member wishes to share.

I hope this helps..

Good luck

[andrewfi]

You asked for recommendations in respect of translation software. As a user of such tools you got my response.

These tools do require that the user is proficient in their native language in both reading and writing - hence my recommendation.

Was I somehow misunderstanding what you wrote in your original post?

[catzenmouse]

Andrew is right on how the programs will mangle your sentences. I used @Prompt for some things I wanted to send in Russian. If you use it as a straight translation from English to Russian and then send the letter you will probably look like an idiot to the lady. I would translate from English to Russian then take that Russian text and translate it back to English (you would be really surprised at what it says) than back to Russian etc. etc. until I got the translation that was as close as I could get to what I was trying to say. None of them will be perfect. If you want perfect then you better speak fluent Russian!

Good Luck,

Ken

[Turboguy]

I think the online translation sites are better than the software you can buy.   The one I like the best is www.wordlingo.com   the one I like second best is www.translate.ru  

As far as programs to learn Russian I have tried Pimsleur 1 & 2.  It is nice because you can listen to it as you drive and no book is required, but I find it a slow way to learn.   I have tried Rosetta stone which is excellent but it does require dedicated time and I have a hard time finding the time.  I have tried Language now which is a computer program.  I liked it but they are out of business.  You may find it on Ebay.  i have tried Russian fast and easy (tapes and book package.)  it is inexpensive and not bad.  I have tried Barrons Russian which was billed as the offical program of the State dept.  It sucked.   My recommendations would be Rosetta or Pimsleur depending on if you want to listen to tapes or learn from your computer.

 

[catzenmouse]

Another one that I found to be pretty good at the basic words and phrases is the "Learn in Your Car" series. Lots of stuff about asking directions, finding the train, bus, etc. I've learned as much living with a Russian woman as I learned using the CDs.

Ken

[BC]

Best (and only good solution imho) is to find a woman that already speaks English.

[ConnerVT]

Turbo, you recounting all of the methods you've tried reminded me of a long time cigarette smoke I know.  When a friend of mine told him he was going to see a hypnotist to help him quit smoking, the guy said, "Oh, that works great!  I've quit 6 times already using a hypnotist!"

[Turboguy]

Turbo, you recounting all of the methods you've tried reminded me of a long time cigarette smoke I know.  When a friend of mine told him he was going to see a hypnotist to help him quit smoking, the guy said, "Oh, that works great!  I've quit 6 times already using a hypnotist!"

Great thought Conner.   I have only quit 3 times using a hypnotist but it did work great.  Perhaps I can find one to hypnotise me into knowing Russian.   That would be alot faster than all these tapes, books and computer programs.

[al-c]

Try www.freetranslation.com.

All the translation programs are limited in that they will convey basic thoughts but not much else.  If you want to see it for yourself, translate some of your own words into Russian and then back to English.  That is what your lady is reading.  I use it with Olga, whose English is good but not perfect, so she can have the translation as an aid to help her figure out the English words she does not know yet.  But I would not depend on it for your only means of communication.  You cannot reach the depth of communication with it that you need to really connect with a lady.

There are several Russian marriage web sites that will translate your letters by a professional interpreter for a small fee, typically $7.00 or so per letter.  Just be aware that they will censor things they don't want communicated, such as your address and phone number, out of fear that you will use it to cut them out of the loop.  One of them is Amenity International (www.amenint.com), run by a husband and wife team who I know personally, Viktor and Olga Korelchuk.

 

[andrewfi]

Back translation of machine translated texts is not a good indicator of what your interlocutor is receiving. It is much worse! As a technique, back translation is appropriate for human translations but for machine stuff, all errors are magnified; think about it, is there any reason why the translation should be any better when done from Russian to Englsih? Of course not! So we know the same kind of errors will apply both ways.

That said, amending the input such that it survives a roundtrip translation is a valid approach as it depends upon the writer checking and correcting his own input and then simplifying sentence construction etc, unti sucha point that it is simple enough for the software to be able to make a stab at. The better your English is to start with, the less you will need to do this. If one started out with text of the standard of the writing of the original poster then one would have a long and probably insuperable task to perform!

[bucbud]

If your looking for an online translator, here is the one I use :http://freetranslation.paralink.com/

it also has back translation built in if you check it (put a check mark in the box)

If you have popup blocker, hold down the control key when you press the translate button. It actually does a very good job for one line translations. I usually keep my lines to 5 or 6 words or less and the lady seems to understand. Sometimes you may have to manipulate the verbage to get what you want out of the translation, but if you keep trying you can usually find a combination of words that say what you want to say.

[dwfunk]

Back  translation of machine translated texts is not a good indicator of what  your interlocutor is receiving. It is much worse!

That said, amending the input such that it survives a roundtrip  translation is a valid approach . . .

 The better your English is to start with, the  less you will need to do this.

I have to disagree with you on this.  Also, I have to ask you,  have you actually used the "double translation method?"  It works,  and works well. 

I write my English text, run it through the 'machine' translator, take  the resulting Russian, run it back through the 'machine'  translator.  If the resulting English is understandable, I'll use  that bit of translated Russian.  All of the ladies that I have  written to in this manner have told me that they understand me  perfectly. 

Using this technique was suggested by an English speaking Russian  woman.  She said that the translation would not be perfect, but by  doing the "double translation method" if the resulting English made  sense to you, then the Russian would make sense to my lady.  And  it has.

Yup, it has resulted in my extensively restructuring how I write and  how I say things.  You can also carry on a deep conversation but  you will have to re-think how you say things.  In other words, it  takes more work, a lot of effort, which by the way is worth it.   You do want a meaningful relationship with a wonderful FSU woman,  right? . . . otherwise an AW will do just as well. . .

I also have to disagree with the statement about "Better  English".  Perfect English is the worst possible input into a  'machine' translator.  There are just too many nuances in the  English language that do not exist in other languages and in particular  in Russian. 

For example: "I go to work now"  what use is the "to?" "I go work  now" conveys all the information that is needed. The speaker is headed  to work, to her job.  And yes, work has other meanings that don't  mean heading to a job, but this is where you have to learn about the  other language and find out that in this case, employment is what is  intended most of the time.  She doesn't 'work" on her automobile,  she 'make a repair', and I forget now how 'working in the garden' was  expressed, but work was not used.

Try to explain that you are 'working hard.'  If you say you are  'working hard at learning . . . <whatever>'  she will think  that learning <whatever> is your employment. 

Bottom line, effort is required, different thinking is required, and it  is all worth it!!!!!! An English speaking girl?  She's just icing  on the cake. 


-david

[S23]

If you can afford it Systran is the best- costs over $1000

Not that perfect but it as good as it gets with software translation.

http://www.systransoft.com

[ConnerVT]

Unless it got MUCH better over the last two years, Systran is a bad choice.  While it has a wonderful interface, my wife and her family all agreed that the Russian translations it generates are nearly unintelligible.

[andrewfi]

DW Funk ~ Yes I have done it. I also know how the software works, in general terms. What you are doing is minimising your errors at the input side and if you tend to write badly, or to use complex sentences or vocabulary that is either not common, or inappropriate then feedback will improve the output. Indeed, I probably suggested it upthread. The downside of doing this is that you end up removing much more of the nuance from your words than you need to because, believe it or not, errors are introduced on each leg of the translation. If you correct to remove those errors then you are over correcting.

If you think about it, you will understand what I am getting at: If you know that errors are introduced through a single translation pass, why do you not think that errors would not be introduced on the way back? Back translating machine generated translation is akin to that game where one whispers a message and it is passed on down a line.

Essentially, one is much better off to use good English, with good spelling, punctuation and grammar and making sure that the concepts used are fairly concrete and the vocabulary is as simple as can be used, consistent with conveying meaning. A roundtrip translation may be useful to enable the neophyte user to calibrate his own skills and expectations, but after that process, roundtripping will degrade the eventual message conveyed, even if the words are received are clear.

[PeeWee]

Best (and only good solution imho) is to find a woman that already speaks English.

Yes, sir. That is me all of the way. Well spoken English only and then sometimes the communication between two can get screwed up anyway. The more screw ups that you have the more risk you run of this romance foundering.

 

Peewee

[PeeWee]

Turbo, you recounting all of the methods you've tried reminded me of a long time cigarette smoke I know.  When a friend of mine told him he was going to see a hypnotist to help him quit smoking, the guy said, "Oh, that works great!  I've quit 6 times already using a hypnotist!"

Great thought Conner.   I have only quit 3 times using a hypnotist but it did work great.  Perhaps I can find one to hypnotise me into knowing Russian.   That would be alot faster than all these tapes, books and computer programs.[/quote]
Relax. Turbo. You are getting very sleepy. Go to sleep and when you awake you will be the Aflac duck...who does not smoke yet has a small pecker...I mean beak.

Peewee

[dwfunk]

Unless it got MUCH better over the last two years, Systran is a bad choice.  While it has a wonderful interface, my wife and her family all agreed that the Russian translations it generates are nearly unintelligible.

I use Prompt almost exclusively now as well as Smartlink. As well as as websters online dictionary for the words that don't translate properly or not at all.  I have used Prompt for over a year now, and written to 7 different Russian speakers and all of them have said they understand everything I write perfectly.  2 that I wrote to do not believe I used a machine translator, and one of those called me on my cell phone and was surprised that my spoken Russian was very limited.  Prompt is about $600.
--
David & Natalia
Republic of Texas/Moscow, Russia
http://www.davidandnataliafunk.org/
http://www.russianwomanwiki.net/

.

[ConnerVT]

I have used various versions of Promt in the past, and even the cheapest version ran circles around Systran.

[dwfunk]

Essentially, one is much better off to use good English, with good spelling, punctuation and grammar and making sure that the concepts used are fairly concrete and the vocabulary is as simple as can be used, consistent with conveying meaning.

Good and proper English will never translate properly in a machine translator.  Good and proper English only works with a very skilled Interrupter/Translator, a human skilled and trained in both languages.

Bottom line, good communication takes effort.  How much effort you are willing to put in will determine how well the communication goes or doesn't go.

If it is too much trouble, (and this is not necessarily a bad thing) then one should stick with proficient English speaking as a 'must have'  requirement,


--
David & Natalia
Republic of Texas/Moscow, Russia
http://www.davidandnataliafunk.org/
http://www.russianwomanwiki.net/

.

[PeeWee]

Essentially, one is much better off to use good English, with good spelling, punctuation and grammar and making sure that the concepts used are fairly concrete and the vocabulary is as simple as can be used, consistent with conveying meaning.

Good and proper English will never translate properly in a machine translator.  Good and proper English only works with a very skilled Interrupter/Translator, a human skilled and trained in both languages.

Bottom line, good communication takes effort.  How much effort you are willing to put in will determine how well the communication goes or doesn't go.

If it is too much trouble, (and this is not necessarily a bad thing) then one should stick with proficient English speaking as a 'must have'  requirement,


--
David & Natalia
Republic of Texas/Moscow, Russia
http://www.davidandnataliafunk.org/
http://www.russianwomanwiki.net/

.

[/quote]
This is what Lena wrote to me last week with regard to software translators.

"English language for me is the prepositions.The same prepositions (I mean in the strict sense of the word) Russians use in another contex.Then (it is horrible!) this collocations of any verb with any prepositions may to change the denotation of this verb cardinally! (and most of your verbs have many different accounts!). But your language has this collocations and different meaning so much!!!! I try to feel them in context but sometimes I can't understand this well! From time to time I need to commit to memory them and only! This is why any computer can't translate languages. If computer will try to translate any text whereupon people will receive the accurate conversion of mindless composition of words!"

Here thoughts agree with DW's.

Peewee

[andrewfi]

dwfunk ~ You are now demonstrating why you had problems and find that the discipline enforced by oversimplification worked for you...

Nuance, is by definition a relative concept (that is what a nuance is!) It is a shade of meaning. I think that you misunderstand the word and its usage. If you use a word, misunderstanding its meaning and then translate, the software, using its internal lexicon will translate its 'understanding' into the target language and the output will be something that neither you, nor the hapless recipient would understand! So, when you do a back translation, you see that the meaning has been totally lost and use a different word that you better understand, or, more likely, several words to convey the meaning that you had improperly ascribed to the word you originally used. But, in the process, you lose nuance - a correctly used word or phrase usually conveys more meaning than a more simple construction, hence my point.

Software, unlike a human translator has little capacity to deal with context, with human translation your errors would probably be picked up and the meaning you INTENDED would have been transmitted. The point you are making has been made before and usually by those whose other written output demonstrates that, in terms of their use of English, their reach exceeds their grasp. For those unfortunates, a spell checker, punctuation checker and dictionary would, probably, have been more appropriate correction mechanisms than the imperfect feedback from a piece of unintelligent tranlation software.

You wrote 'Good and proper English will never translate properly in a machine translator.  Good and proper English only works with a very skilled Interrupter/Translator, a human skilled and trained in both languages' Those words when you reread them will probably cause your face to redden in embarrassment! But such confusion probably further illustrates your problems. The ONLY type of English that can be translated by software is 'Good and proper English'! A human can, by dint of the application of intelligence, inference and context fill in the blanks left by your errors. Software can not do this at all.

PeeWee, I do not see that dwfunk has writen anything other than the recognition that communication takes effort, that might be reasonably agreed with by a person who has good English and uses translation services of all kinds. That which was written by your interlocutor does tend to lend strength to my position.

There is an old acronym, oft repeated, GIGO: Garbage in, Garbage out. If the input is poor then so will be the output. If one has more than one faulty input the eventual output will be even more flawed. I think that you will not find at any point in the instruction manuals for software translation packages, that back translation of the text is recommended as routine usage.