How important is love?

[KenC]

I see post after post describing the fine art of finding a good woman in the fsu.  I also read a multitude of posts helpng men avoid every possible scam known to mankind.  But I see very few posts related to the subject of love.  Is it important in this process at all?  Is there such a thing as Love at first sight?  Or is that really lust at first sight?  Is love even necessary to have a good marriage?  Is it enough to be compatable?  Is it even possible to fall in love with the limited time available?  What are your thoughts?

[Albert]

Ken, love is a very overused word.  Hardly anyone knows what it really is.  People such as my grandparents who have been married 60 years or so tell me that true love doesn't happen until after 10-15 years of marriage.

I was married for over 20 years and didn't feel anything like true love even though I liked my wife very much and we had a very good marriage.  So love is not necessary for a good marriage.

I think many people are desperate to feel liked, wanted, etc., so they use the word love as soon as possible in the relationship.  They want to feel they have found the right woman, so they say they are in love.  I say . . . . impossible, until many years have passed.

I, myself, have experienced a lot of lust at first sight.  :-))

[Bruno]

Love !!! General term for explain something very personal... each people have his how view about love... below, some definition about love

[glow=red]Defining love[/glow]


There are as many forms of love as there are lovers. However, all forms of love have some common factors and issues.

Discussions of love are inevitably colored by the language used to describe it. Each language, developing alongside a corresponding culture, has a different set of words to describe love. For this reason, it's difficult to discuss different cultures' views without referencing their language.

unrequited love. Interpersonal love is usually found in an interpersonal relationship, such as between family members, friends, and couples. However, people often express love for other people outside of these relationships through charity and volunteering.

Some elements that are often present in interpersonal love:

• Affection: appreciation of other [/*]
  
• Attachment: satisfying basic emotional needs [/*]
  
• Reciprocation: if love is mutual [/*]
  
• Commitment: a desire to maintain love [/*]
  
• Emotional intimacy: sharing emotions and feelings [/*]
  
• Kinship: family bonds [/*]
  
• Passion: sexual desire [/*]
  
• Physical intimacy: sharing of personal space [/*]
  
• Self-interest: desiring rewards [/*]
  
• Service: desire to help [/*]

Passion, or sexual energy, is probably the most important element in determining how a relationship is seen. This is because passion is often considered undesirable or unhealthy in love. In many religions and systems of ethics, it is wrong to have passionate love for immediate family, or outside of a committed relationship.

Phases


The three main phases of love: lust, attraction and attachment. Generally love will start off in the lust phase, strong in passion but weak in the other elements. The primary motivator at this stage is the basic sexual instinct. Appearance, smells and other similar factors play a decisive role in screening potential mates. However, as time passes, the other elements may grow and passion may shrink -- this depends upon the individual. So what starts as Infatuation or Empty love may well develop into one of the fuller types of love. At the attraction stage the person concentrates their affection on a single mate and fidelity becomes important.

Likewise when a person has known a loved one for a long time, they develop a deeper attachment to their partner. According to current scientific understanding of love, this transition from attraction to attachment phase usually happens in about 30 months. After that passion fades, changing love from Consummate to Companionate, or from Romantic love to Liking.

[Photo Guy]

I see post after post describing the fine art of finding a good woman in the fsu.  I also read a multitude of posts helpng men avoid every possible scam known to mankind.  But I see very few posts related to the subject of love.  Is it important in this process at all?  Is there such a thing as Love at first sight?  Or is that really lust at first sight?  Is love even necessary to have a good marriage?  Is it enough to be compatable?  Is it even possible to fall in love with the limited time available?  What are your thoughts?

Hello Ken,
As I've stated in other threads, there are basically two scenarios
in the beginning stage of courtship:

1- lust/infatuation
2- 'Love At First Sight'  (LAFS)

#1 can lead to love. It just needs time to grow as you
     learn more about each other. You may find out she has a
     really annoying personality to go along with that fine derriere.
     Or you may find she's really compatible. It's the typical
     early stage on the road to marriage.

#2 is rarer. It begins with the odd feeling that you've always
     known the person. You feel comfort and excitement, and
     there's effortless communication, almost as though
     there's mental telepathy or extreme empathy. Those who
     haven't experienced it, will assume it doesn't exist.
     I'd characterize it as 'love' from the get-go. As time goes
     on, you realize it was love, and still is love.

I don't know if LAFS can happen via the telephone or email.
When you meet her in person, focus on reading her body
language and eyes. For LAFS, you have to open yourself
up to rejection. You have to drop your guard to let the
empathy happen. If you're too cautious, it won't happen.  -doug L.

[Muzh]

Love !!! General term for explain something very personal... each people have his how view about love... below, some definition about love


Defining love

 

Bruno:

Great definition.  I posted already my trip where I met my wife.  The reason I chose her was lust.  Everything else developed afterwards during our conversations.  Then there was more lust, with the developing infatuation and to some point attachment.  When we finally were face to face, it was more a confirmation of what we felt rather than the expectation of some regents mixing (aka chemistry) to see if we had anything in common.  Five years later, lust is still an important part of our relationship.  We're still discovering each other and it's at a fun, slow, steady pace.  I'll have to tip my hat at Russsian women.  Their roles are so clearly defined it is a pleasure to do the things I've been programmed to do based on millions of years of evolution, and get a satisfied look back as in saying, you're my man.

My ex (The Woman From Hell or TWFH) started calling me a pig about 5 years after we met.  When we met she would swallow at her insistance, she was my personal Deep Throat.  She would encourage me to "touch her" not that I needed any encouragement.  Suddenly out of the blue, the same behavior turned into groping.  Go figure.  Well, I stopped.  One of the reasons she claimed mental cruelty was that I didn't touched her or showed signs of affection.  The reason I call her TWFH is beacuse I've dated many AW and have never witnessed my ex's behavior.  Glad she's history.  And no, she was not the reason I looked for a Russian woman.  It was the RW long legs and sexy demure.  Not to mention the short skirts and short shorts that look unbelievable on them and the see-thru bloses and their curves.  Man, those curves (SLAP, snap out of it!!)

Sorry, got carried away.  Where was I?  Ah, yes, real women with sexy accents and long legs.  I'm a lucky dog.

[Bruno]

Muzh... you write : " I'm a lucky dog."

Maybe are you a lion



A lion couple may copulate up to 40 times a day during their "honeymoon" period...

I have choice my first wife by lust... we have great sex but love was not present.... Sex is only a part of love... we have know great sex during all our period marriage, and same after ( in the periode she was without other man ) but it was not more possible to life together... and since she have receive her Belgium nationality, i was not more needed...

I like sex but i have choice to remove this in my quest of woman... i wish now a woman with who i can stay all the time, to the end of my life... and not only 1 hours day in the bedroom...

If you like lust, check these lady at http://www.love-from-russia.be/woman/0000593.htm ... sexy, sensual but i am not sure that she can be a good wife... certainly perfect for sex... but how about life with so creature...

[Muzh]

Muzh... you write : " I'm a lucky dog."

Maybe are you a lion



A lion couple may copulate up to 40 times a day during their "honeymoon" period...

Only 40 times a day???  Wimp.

Bruno wrote:

I like sex but i have choice to remove this in my quest of woman... i wish now a woman with who i can stay all the time, to the end of my life... and not only 1 hours day in the bedroom...


Maybe I gave you the wrong impression.  Sex is not the only thing in our lives, we do share a lot of other things.  For example, we... uhhh, anyway sex is good.

No, seriously.  Sex is an integral part of a relationship, not the only part.  However, to remove that aspect from your quest, in my most humblest of opinions, would be a crass mistake.  Smart women know that men will decrease in their performance as they "mature" and it is accepted as part of their relationship.  They still may ask you to check with your doctor to see if you can take Viagra, but it is expected from a healthy man to "perform."  Also, sex is not limited to 1 hour in the bedroom, but 1 hour in the kitchen, and 1 hour on the dining room table, and...

In all honesty, the majority of these women would like to find a virile man.  If they were NOT looking for a virile man, then why are they posing in nice provocative photos for the agencies and only post a letter?  Most of them would like to have a child with you to cement their relationship with you and this will not happen through the ejaculate deception.  Even those that already have children from a previous marriage would like to have a child with you.

And Bruno, if you think that a 60 something year old woman is not interested in sex, think again.  Besides, sex keeps you young.

[Bruno]

[line]

Sex is an integral part of a relationship, not the only part. However, to remove that aspect from your quest, in my most humblest of opinions, would be a crass mistake.

[line]

Why it will be a mistake ? I have first search a woman who have a character, mind, and heart... i have find some who was compatible with me...  i have begin write to each for know more and the time have make his work... have stay only 4 woman... and from these 4, i have choice the more pleasant to my eyes ( lust factor )... and meeting have confirm this...

[line]

Smart women know that men will decrease in their performance as they "mature" and it is accepted as part of their relationship.  They still may ask you to check with your doctor to see if you can take Viagra, but it is expected from a healthy man to "perform."  Also, sex is not limited to 1 hour in the bedroom, but 1 hour in the kitchen, and 1 hour on the dining room table, and...

[line]

Smart men know the technic for give pleasure ( orgasm ) to woman, same without f*ck.

And when you work all days, you are sometime tired... some people need to work for earn is money and i am not old enough for be retired...

But in holliday periode, i have no problem... with the ex, i have make it in unusual place ( park of the Belgium King, near a jail, ... ). Now, Galina is more "classic" but she have other quality...

[line]

In all honesty, the majority of these women would like to find a virile man.  If they were NOT looking for a virile man, then why are they posing in nice provocative photos for the agencies and only post a letter?  

[line]

They don't wish a impotent man... but the reason of provocative photos are other... they wish find a man... and these who are sexy, use the beauty to attract ... it is a method to remove the concurency...

[line]

And Bruno, if you think that a 60 something year old woman is not interested in sex, think again.  Besides, sex keeps you young.

[line]

I have never say that old people are not interested in sex... i work like gardener for the state, i take care of garden from a rest house for old people... and i have see enough thing... for some, 95 year old is always young... and last year, one of 73 year old is married with a young nurse ( 29 year old ) and the first baby is on the way !!!

 


 

[KenC]

KenC

[KenC]

Photoguy,

I don't know if there is love at first sight.  I think there can be a strong attraction or lust, but one cannot possibly know that it is love until later.  Remember that it is at first sight and that would mean in person.(not a photo)

Muzh,

I think I was married to your ex's twin sister.  What is the difference between carressing a woman and pawing a woman?  Love.

Bruno,

I agree that there are many different defiinitions of love and even different degrees of love.  I also think that sex without love is just OK, but with love, it is truly something special.

KenC

 

[Photo Guy]

Photoguy,

I don't know if there is love at first sight.  I think there can be a strong attraction or lust, but one cannot possibly know that it is love until later.  Remember that it is at first sight and that would mean in person.(not a photo)

Huh? I never implied anything about love thru photos.
Hey, maybe letters. It could be possible.
(never happened to me)  -doug L.

[Photo Guy]

       Love is communication. It's 'connecting' on many levels.
Openness is required.
       Women in personal ad photo dress a certain way for only one reason - to attract a guy. It doesn't necessarily reflect how they feel about sex. They dress that way for strategic reasons.  -doug

[Muzh]

[line]
Sex is an integral part of a relationship, not the only part. However, to remove that aspect from your quest, in my most humblest of opinions, would be a crass mistake.

[line]

Why it will be a mistake ? I have first search a woman who have a character, mind, and heart... i have find some who was compatible with me...  i have begin write to each for know more and the time have make his work... have stay only 4 woman... and from these 4, i have choice the more pleasant to my eyes ( lust factor )... and meeting have confirm this...

[line]

Bruno:

A woman of character will definitely enjoy sex as much as a woman of no character.  The same goes for the sexually appealing vs unappealing woman.  Actually, the sexually unappealing woman would enjoy it more since she would probably not get as much as the sexually appealing one.  The point is if you are looking for a woman that is not that interested in sex in order to be compatible with you, and you found her, then there is no mistake.

[Muzh]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

Women in personal ad photo dress a certain way for only one reason - to attract a guy. It doesn't necessarily reflect how they feel about sex. They dress that way for strategic reasons. -doug

(Buzzer sound)  Wrong!  Hey photo guy.  Let's say you are going to a black tie affair with your lady, do you go dressed in sweats?  The "strategic reasons" for a woman to dress like that is to get you excited, isn't it?  Are you telling me that these women are just c**k teasers and nothing else?  Boy, there is a lot you have to learn about these RW.

[Photo Guy]

Women in personal ad photo dress a certain way for only one reason - to attract a guy. It doesn't necessarily reflect how they feel about sex. They dress that way for strategic reasons. -doug

(Buzzer sound)  Wrong!  Hey photo guy.  Let's say you are going to a black tie affair with your lady, do you go dressed in sweats?  The "strategic reasons" for a woman to dress like that is to get you excited, isn't it?  Are you telling me that these women are just c**k teasers and nothing else?  Boy, there is a lot you have to learn about these RW.
[/quote]

Muzh, I hope all women are horny women. Some horny women
dress in a provocative way and some don't. You can't judge a
book by its cover. When I search through photos and profiles
of RW, I choose them by how attractive they look and by
elements of their personalities. It isn't black and white or
as simple as saying she's a tease or she's totally horny and
willing to satisfy your every desire. Drawing some kind of
conclusion from a photo isn't smart. The chemistry with a
hot-looking babe varies a lot depending on who she's with,
unless she's a total nympho, right?  If you put all of the emphasis
on sex, you could easily end up getting fkd in the long run.
Looking good in a photo is all about their need for guy.
It's about attracting a mate. (That's a generalization.)
A plain woman in a burlap sack may be hornier than a
woman in a micro mini-skirt with her legs spread.
Wow, you have a lot to learn! (condescending?)  -doug L.

[Photo Guy]

Bruno,
I understand what you are saying. Character, mind, and personality
are all important considerations for compatibility. You're correct.
I look at it this way, the first thing you can discover about a
woman is whether or not she is physically attractive. Just look at
a photo or two and you'll have your answer. From there you can
go on to discover her personality and values, etc. The only
problem with this approach is that great chemistry can develop
later when you get to know someone. I remember years ago a new
woman joined our company. She had frizzy hair and I can
remember thinking she wasn't very attractive. We can visually
size-up people quickly. A year later she had become more
confident in her job and she changed her hairstyle. Today,
now that I know her, she is ultra attractive. Now with RW
I am guilty of not allowing that scenario to happen. Instead, I judge
a woman by her appearance in the beginning, and then let
it evolve into getting to know her personality, her inner
qualities. I don't think it matters what order things go in.
You can discover her qualities in any order, maybe first her
physical attractiveness, then her communication style, then
her system of values, etc. Physical beauty doesn't have to
be the first dicovery.   -doug L.

[Bruno]

Doug write :


[line]


Instead, I judge a woman by her appearance in the beginning, and then let it evolve into getting to know her personality, her inner qualities. I don't think it matters what order things go in. You can discover her qualities in any order, maybe first her
physical attractiveness, then her communication style, then her system of values, etc. Physical beauty doesn't have to be the first dicovery.

[line]

Doug, it seem to me from these and other post that your eyes are fixed on the photo from ads... i have try to explain in some other post that photo's are not always the reality ( remember the two photo's of me, of the two from Galina )...

I have maybe the perfect solution for you... use a text based browser for the internet... you see only the text and nothing other.... select several ladies who attract you by her data... write to them... reduce the number... write more... and when you have around 10 ladies, use your usual internet explorer... and choice these who attract you the more physicaly...

It will be a real "blind" date ... but in your case, it can help... what happen with you now, it is what is have know with my first wife.... the lust factor was the first one and she was very sexy.... result : divorce after some year and not more the right to see her daughter ( that i like a lot ) because i am not the genetic father... i don't wish that you know what i have know... i have learn by the hard way...

 

[Photo Guy]

Bruno,
I'm okay with choosing an attractive photo and then
finding out about her other qualtiies through letters and emails
and phone calls. What's wrong with that? I don't place much importance on the photos. You've got the wrong impression.
I don't expect a woman to look just like her photo. It isn't
an important priority. It's just the easiest quality to
discover. Writing to a woman who is not attractive
could be a real waste of her time and mine.
That's one of the advantages of going over there
and meeting women in person. You can quickly find out
if she's attractive or not. That may not matter to you,
but it does to me. I don't believe in discrimination against
attractive women.   -doug L.  

[jb]

Doug L,

Let me give you a little tip, 99% of the women will actually look better in person than their photographs.  While it's a mystery to me why that is, it's a joy and comfort to most guys who actually make the trip.

[Photo Guy]

jb,
They look better in person? I'm looking forward to it.
I'd like to hang out and wing it for a few weeks, if I need a
'plan B'.  -doug L.

[Jack]

How important is love? Well, it's pretty important.

And how many of you guys think that after meeting a woman and spending say, one week, 8, 9 days with this woman, that the two of you are in love?  How many of you think this happens?

How many of you think both the man and the woman feel they are in love after spending one week with each other?  Raise your hands.  {I see a lot of you guys raising your hands, not so many women} I think the chances of a woman meeting a man and falling in love with him after one week of knowing each other, one week of spending some time with each other and maybe having sex two, three times, are not as high a percentage as many of you guys think.

I want to re-tell a story I think I have told on a couple of ocassions. The story I am going to tell you is the first time I was told this by a lady but certaintly not the only time I was told this.

During the early days of my pursuit for a Russian bride I attended one of the big socials and meet a stunning brunette in Moscow we will call Svetlana. Svetlana was fine looking in her short, tight black dress and so I walked over and began talking to her. Her English was almost perfect. I could tell she was young but was not sure just how young and so after a few minutes of talking I had to ask her and she told me she was 18.   'ohhhh nooo', I said, that's too young for me. But the way she carried and presented herself she looked a bit older.

I quickly pick-up Svetlana was well educated and smart. And although she was too young for me, she was very interesting to know and I knew I wanted to stay in touch with her. We exchanged information and stayed in contact. On my next trip to Moscow I had a little time and met Svetlana and her father at the pizza place next to the Intourist Hotel (now gone) on Tverskya. Her father was a bright man, I could see where Svetlana got her smarts. Over the next year Svetlana would write on ocassion and would ask me about this guy or that guy who had written her. In these days the catalogs were hot and she looked good and was getting a lot of letters. She thought she was falling for this one guy, told me a lot about him and it turned out he was not telling her the complete truth about himself and the manner in which he lived. Over time Svetlana and I became fairly good friends and Svetlana would help me to deliver flowers to ladies in Moscow or would help me with almost anything I needed.  One day Svetlana wrote and told me about Bob whom she had just met. I asked her a lot of questions and she would answer them. And then she told me, I think I am going to marry this man. I said " Svetlana, you just met this man, only spend a week with him. You do not know him well enough to marry him".

And what Svetlana told me next I have never forgot. What Svetlana told me I have had other women also tell me almost word for word.  And that was, "I think I can learn to love him". 

I think I can learn to love him. 

One woman says this to me, then a second, a third, a fourth women say's this.

How many women must say and feel this?  I think, it is a lot.

Call it women's intuition. How well can a woman really know a man after spending 4, 5, 6 days with him, a week with him?  I think many women will marry a man they are not in love with at the time but think they can learn to fall in love with him.

That 18 year old girl from Moscow is now 26 and an American citizen living in Houston happily married to Bob (36) now for over 6 years because she felt she could learn to love him, and she did.

 

[KenC]

Great story Jack,

I think that a lot of RW fall into this catagory.  They almost have to because of the quickness that some jump into engagments.  There is just no way to know each other well enough to be in love in a few days.  That is a hell of a leap of faith as I see it.  It is also the cause fo the many horror stories I read about where the guys wonders how in the hell he married this woman that he doesn't even know.

When I was dating AW, I had a 6 month rule.  I knew that a woman could put on a happy face and be just about whatever she wanted for a short period of time.  They just couldn't do it for 6 months.  LOL.  Eventually, the "real" woman would expose herself within 6 months.  I don't think it is much different for RW.  RW may even be better actresses than AW.  This coupled with difficulties in communication due to the language barrier makes it an even more risky read on love.

KenC

[BC]

Love is difficult to define or gauge but will always show its true face when times get tough.

Don't remember where I picked up this tidbit but it 'stuck'..

[andrewfi]

Learning to love is an interesting idea. it is the same kind of situation as an arranged marriage. A person settles for and makes the most of what they have and from that comes the love that supports the relationship ongoing.

It is, I think, what saves the 'one week wonders', when they are indeed saved. I have a feeling that too many people have too many romantic ideals tucked in their pocket and get them all mixed up with other stuff near to their pockets. After all, for most of our history, romantic love did not exist. It was invented as a concept in the middle ages in Europe but was only for a very few. For most people, it was not until the 20th century that we had the economic resources and leisure to enjoy such love. Most Russian women are much more pragmatic, given that they do not have the luxury of time and money that most guys going to the FSU have. So, they look at a guy:

does he look OK

does he bathe regularly

is he too strange when it coems to sex

does he have enoughmoney to support me and any kids I may have now, or in the future

is he generous enough

will he work hard enough on our relationship to make it work

I think if the answer to all or most of the above (and probably others) is affirmative then she is 'go' for a learning to love situation. It seems to me, that absent time, men should put their romantic ideas away, learn about arranged marriages and get on with the business of selecting a mate.

[Bruno]

Andrew... from Estonia ? You write a pack of shit... i understand why FSU woman search foreigner... romantism is not dead and certainly not by woman... and a good woman don't take care ( too much ) about physical ( i am ugly ) and about money ( i have just enough for normal life )...

Some part of letter from my ukrainian woman :

"You have a golden heart, but the thought of realizing my dreams at your expense have never occurred to me. I always worked and I am independent from the financial point of view and I am planning to work in the future too even if I would live in another country."

"I think it's easy to get know you, understand you and estimate weather we match each other according to such letter you write me. I think it's not difficult to love a person according to his letter for a romantic nature. And it's easy to get attached and make friends when reading the letter you feel that its author has similar opinion on many things and it looks as if he repeats your thoughts."

"Love on the physical level is like passion that disappears as quickly as it appeared. If love is on the spiritual level, when people know each other gradually, when the company of one person substitutes you the whole world? and when you are ready to do anything in sake of this person. Everyone chooses what he likes. Perhaps, it also depends on the intellectual level of a person. I agree with you that sex is a really important topic in our lives and if man and a woman are intimate, they must'nt be ashamed to speak on this theme."

"I want to tell you that grand, magnificent life with expensive jewelry and restaurants doesn't interest me. I don't belong to those people for whom romance is estimated with money. Money is not important for me in life. I agree, they give a lot of possibilities, but such pressures as health, love and happiness can't be bought for them…"

"I understand, that you have no the big money and me as well as you would like, that our meeting has taken place as it is possible more quickly, therefore I cannot and I do not want to ask you money. I think, that I earn enough to contain myself."

"And, that on the account of an apartment she can be removed for time necessary for us for rather small payment, approximately 70-100 $ for a week for an one-room apartment, I think, more and it is not necessary to us. Up to that I am ready to pay for this apartment if you will have problems with money. By the way on how many days you plan to arrive to Ukraine?"

"Dear Bruno, you yet has not understood, what for me the main riches? I have found the most precious  is you because you have the most important for me riches is your gold heart. I see luxury around of myself and I shall see certainly it and even the greater in Belgium, but it not that luxury which is necessary for me. "

"I do not know, where I have more than prospects in my country or in Belgium, but the smart private residence and the personal automobile is not necessary for
 me, my priorities are a happy family and cheerful children's laughter in cosy let and not the big house... For me the most important, that at us with you identical sights at family and at a life, that we want and we try to make each other happy"