Advice sought

[Jim]

In the middle of July this year I meet a woman from Ukraine over a free dating site. We talked a lot over a chatting site and decided that we should meet in the middle of August for 2 weeks.

I came to her town and we were the first week together every evening (she went to work in daytime) and the second week we went to Yalta ( we rented a apartment). She had at that point just changed job, so I was paying for everything and that was also okay because I knew it would be like that even before I went down to Ukraine.

Even that her English knowledge was very, very little, yes so we with help from the Internet translator, arms fingers and such – yes so we were able to communicate without the big problems. Of course there were misunderstand but I believe there always will be that if people use translators.

When we were together in August we talked about it maybe would be a good idea to get her into a English class and 1 week after I came home she told that she had found a English teacher. This teacher should teach her 2 times a week for 75 UAH for an hour. I send her the money for September. In the in end of September her son was in a car crash where he broke the arm and it was really a compound fracture. She told that she for a time had to stop the English classes and that I could understand because she had to run to the hospital every evening after work.

In the start of October the son was home again (he is 19 years old) and so she told me that she wanted to start to English again, but the teacher had to stop teaching her because she was pregnant. Instead she so had to start in a English class with 3 other and so the price was 630 UAH plus 240 UAH for a book. I send her also those money.

Already in August we made a deal about a new meeting here in the start of November. I went down there the 2nd of November and home again the 7th of November. “ weeks before I should go down to her, she told me that she wanted me to buy a perfume for her (120 Dollars) and that I did even that I think it was a little strange that she just asked for this perfume, because she already new about some presents I would bring for her.

I came down to her and we had some fine days together, but 2 days before I should go home she told me that she wanted money so she could buy new underwear (550 UAH). I told her I would think about to the next day. She also wanted 450 UAH to the English class for November.

We also talked about a new meeting in the end of December / start of January. But suddenly she told me she wanted us to go to Sharm El-Sheikh for a week in this next meeting. So I told her that she had to understand that even that I have a okay job, yes so it was a little strange for me that she just asked for things all the time and I think she understood.

The day before I had to go home she so suddenly tells me that she want 550 UAH for the English class = 100 UAH more than the day before. I gave her the money, but was feeling that it was strange the it went up from 450 UAH to 550 UAH on one day.

I saw here English books and for me it was not looking like something a beginner should start with and she was also after one month only on page 6. She used the translator to find out about what she had to write in the English book all the time and I believe that it is not the right was to learn – but of course I don't know about how they teach beginners in English in Ukraine.

The last day when I was there we decided to buy pizza and suddenly she tells that we also had to buy pizza for her son. We were in the rented apartment and he was together with his girlfriend in her apartment.

I never have seen the son, family or any friends when I've been down there, even that they of course know about me.

I don't know so much about life in Ukraine and about women from Ukraine in general. So I just wonder about she “playing” with me or this is normally that women ask for presents all the time ?

The broken arm on her son she told me cost 7000 Dollars – can that really be true ?

I need advice – please help me.

[Olly]

It is not normally that women ask for presents all the time. I think if you will not give money next time - she will say to you - goodbye.

I don't know how much cost medicine in Ukraina but 7 000 $ it is TOO much anywhere. I have friend in Dnepropetrovs and i will ask her tonight about it if you want.

[acrzybear]

In the middle of July this year I meet a woman from Ukraine over a free dating site. We talked a lot over a chatting site and decided that we should meet in the middle of August for 2 weeks.

I came to her town and we were the first week together every evening (she went to work in daytime) and the second week we went to Yalta ( we rented a apartment). She had at that point just changed job, so I was paying for everything and that was also okay because I knew it would be like that even before I went down to Ukraine.

Even that her English knowledge was very, very little, yes so we with help from the Internet translator, arms fingers and such – yes so we were able to communicate without the big problems. Of course there were misunderstand but I believe there always will be that if people use translators.

When we were together in August we talked about it maybe would be a good idea to get her into a English class and 1 week after I came home she told that she had found a English teacher. This teacher should teach her 2 times a week for 75 UAH for an hour. I send her the money for September. In the in end of September her son was in a car crash where he broke the arm and it was really a compound fracture. She told that she for a time had to stop the English classes and that I could understand because she had to run to the hospital every evening after work.

In the start of October the son was home again (he is 19 years old) and so she told me that she wanted to start to English again, but the teacher had to stop teaching her because she was pregnant. Instead she so had to start in a English class with 3 other and so the price was 630 UAH plus 240 UAH for a book. I send her also those money.

Already in August we made a deal about a new meeting here in the start of November. I went down there the 2nd of November and home again the 7th of November. “ weeks before I should go down to her, she told me that she wanted me to buy a perfume for her (120 Dollars) and that I did even that I think it was a little strange that she just asked for this perfume, because she already new about some presents I would bring for her.

I came down to her and we had some fine days together, but 2 days before I should go home she told me that she wanted money so she could buy new underwear (550 UAH). I told her I would think about to the next day. She also wanted 450 UAH to the English class for November.

We also talked about a new meeting in the end of December / start of January. But suddenly she told me she wanted us to go to Sharm El-Sheikh for a week in this next meeting. So I told her that she had to understand that even that I have a okay job, yes so it was a little strange for me that she just asked for things all the time and I think she understood.

The day before I had to go home she so suddenly tells me that she want 550 UAH for the English class = 100 UAH more than the day before. I gave her the money, but was feeling that it was strange the it went up from 450 UAH to 550 UAH on one day.

I saw here English books and for me it was not looking like something a beginner should start with and she was also after one month only on page 6. She used the translator to find out about what she had to write in the English book all the time and I believe that it is not the right was to learn – but of course I don't know about how they teach beginners in English in Ukraine.

The last day when I was there we decided to buy pizza and suddenly she tells that we also had to buy pizza for her son. We were in the rented apartment and he was together with his girlfriend in her apartment.

I never have seen the son, family or any friends when I've been down there, even that they of course know about me.

I don't know so much about life in Ukraine and about women from Ukraine in general. So I just wonder about she “playing” with me or this is normally that women ask for presents all the time ?

The broken arm on her son she told me cost 7000 Dollars – can that really be true ?

I need advice – please help me.

All of this is NOT normal behavior! Cut your losses and move on, I would also suggest you read the 10 commandments on this forum (Should be on the left side of your screen).  Jim, let me ask you this-Would you buy all of these presents and pay for the medical bills of a woman you just started dating in your home town (or even the next town over)?   You sound like a decent guy and the predators can spot that a mile away. 

[GoodOlBoy]

  to RWD Jim!
 
Your story is full of RED FLAGS.
Sorry to tell you Jim, but you are being "milked" like a Guernsey cow.
Move on!
 
GOB
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[Annushka]

$7000 is a big money here (in Ukraine). This money would be enough to have cosmetic surgery and to turn a frog into a queen of beauty. A year ago my friend's daughter broke her leg and she had a serious surgery in Kiev, that was made by high qualified surgeon. They paid 4000 hrn. for surgery. The rehabilitation period cost them about 3000 hrn.
Draw your own conclusions

[Jack]

Jim, it's obvious that you like this lady and you want to have a good, long relationship with her.

But Jim, their are major problems with this relatinship.

I think you are being used, taken advantage of, in fact I'm quite sure of it.
I think you are a smart man, and a caring man and you want to see the best in everyone including this woman but now this woman is making you question some things.  It's called your instincts, they are kicking in.

I think this is not the type relationship you want or one that is going to lead to what you want.   What to do?   Begin to tone this relationship down.   Begin to look for new ladies who interest you and on your next trip, meet more than one woman, it's not so hard to do.

If in the future you are seeing a woman who lives in the same city as the one you are now seeing, drop in and see her, give her a call, but as a famous ole cowboy once said,...turn out the lights on this relationship, the parties over.

[GQBlues]

...Even that her English knowledge was very, very little, yes so we with help from the Internet translator, arms fingers and such – yes so we were able to communicate without the big problems.....75 UAH for an hour....the price was 630 UAH plus 240 UAH for a book....She also wanted 450 UAH to the English class for November....she want 550 UAH for the English class = 100 UAH more than the day before....

One of the things I find so mystifying on RWD is, we caution folks about pay-per-letter relationships, dubious agencies, etc...but then, usher folks to continue/pursue relationships with women, those in international marriage venues, who doesn't speak a lick of English. Go figure...
 
Jim, my wife knew basic English, to almost none, when I first met her. She said at the time she was interested enough in me that she'll make all the effort necessary to better herself to enable us continue communicating, and asked I giver her the chance. She studied, on her own, without asking for money not even once. I never sent her one dime for any lessons.
 
That's a little over 7 years ago. Today, she's a senior staff in her department, recently made manager-in-charge (champion is what they call it) on two of their company's accounting softwares and had done numerous slide presentations both here in LA, Indiana, and Chicago. She's an integral part of their video conference team when meetings are held with clients abroad. She'll soon earn her CPA certification and is poised to become a district manager soon. That's all in addition to earning her degree on Information System / Financial analysis.
 
 

I need advice – please help me.

Every minute spent on women your instinct is telling you isn't right, despite what the gallery is urging you to pursue, is a minute taken away with someone you can absolutely feel right about.
 
 
Find someone who equally long for the company because of you, not because your money.
 
Think about it. Seriously.

[Faux Pas]

 
Every minute spent on women your instinct is telling you isn't right, despite what the gallery is urging you to pursue, is a minute taken away with someone you can absolutely feel right about.
 
 
Find someone who equally long for the company because of you, not because your money.
 
Think about it. Seriously.

That's just plain, good solid advice.


The crux is many guys that think with the little head instead of the big one. Because they "feel" right about women that ask for money, want gifts and shopping trips and the men clueless enough to think it is because of other motivations than what it really is. Double edged sword

[Misha]

The broken arm on her son she told me cost 7000 Dollars – can that really be true ?

No. IIRC the average wage in Ukraine is roughly $250 per month so do you believe that a simple procedure such as putting  a cast on a broken arm will be worth over 2 years of salary?!? She is playing you and now milking you for as much as she can. My advice, cut your losses and run....

[Muzh]

Hate to tell you this Jim, but you've been taken for a ride. I wonder if there is such a "son."

[Gator]

Jim,
 
Calm down.  Before saying paka to this woman, I would like to know more.
 
 
The $7000 for the broken arm is incorrect!!!   Is it a mistake or the start of a scam?   It easily could be a currency conversion miscalculation rather than something deceitful.  Some RW/UW tend to make such mistakes if doing the math in their head.  The issue - did she ask you for $7000?  If she did, it is bad, really bad.  Don't even waste the dime to call her. 
 
OTOH, if she mentioned the $7000 merely in passing, then read below because IF that is the case I disagree with the other posters, dependent upon a couple of variables which I don't know at this time. 
 
 
You should pay for her English lessons if you want to develop a serious and long-term relationship with her.  Some UW struggle in making ends meet.  I recall GQ's wife was not struggling because she was very young and living with her parents.    So, nothing wrong with money for English lessons, and the amount ($80) is reasonable.
 
 
Rather than have your third meeting at her home again, your UW wants to go to Egypt and enjoy the sun.  She would probably be a lot of fun on such a trip.  Nothing wrong with asking.
 
The perfume?   And you had already told her that you were bringing some gifts.  RW/UW expect some presents from their one and only man.  Were the other presents personal and special  (e. g., jewelry) or something utilitarian.  Women like to receive a "little pretty" from their man and they like to show the gift to their women friends.  Those same friends are questioning your actions to make sure you are sincere and not a sex tourist.
Nothing wrong with that if your other presents were modest or utilitarian.
 
The underwear?  I assume nice bra and panties.  Few things make a woman feel as sexy as a new bra and panties.  She wanted to look (and feel) sexy for you before you leave.  She is trying to help you, to tell you what she likes, to please you.  Nothing wrong with that.  [I prefer women who do not wear panties, especially if wearing a dress.  But this is not about me.]
 
 
The pizza?  Nothing wrong with that if you and she took the pizza to her son's apartment and met him and saw his arm in a sling.  It sounds like this did not happen.  So this could be a red flag (but how can a $10 item be a red flag?). 
 
 
In summary, the costs are rather small in my opinion.  I would never question such little costs.  However, the key point is you are not me.    You question this.  Frankly, IMO it makes you seem not generous (which translates as "greedy" in UW talk, which is a deadly sin).
 
As your relationship develops, there could be more costs.  Most RW/UW feel that if they have found their one and only man they will expect him to help with some costs if they are struggling.  For some UW, life is a struggle.  A UM would pay some; however, he is not interested in marriage (and you are, big difference).
 
Only you know how you feel about this woman, and how she feels about you.  If you really like her, explain that the economy is bad now and that you have little extra money.  Neverthleless, tell her you expect your income will improve (if true).   Say that you can help with English lessons, but a trip to Egypt is impossible now.   If she is after only your money, she will cool off if not walk.   You will sense the answer. 

[Muzh]

Boy Gator, I never thought I'd say this with you advice but, man you are wrong.


He SHOULD pay for her English lessons?


What he should do is find himself a fine English-speaking woman out there. One that will never, and I mean NEVER demand for money while they are just in the meeting process.


I still say there is no son. Jesus, $7000 for a broken arm?


Run Jim, run.

[BC]

Boy Gator, I never thought I'd say this with you advice but, man you are wrong.


He SHOULD pay for her English lessons?

Muzh,

He has met her twice and still seems interested in carrying on.. Yellow - mellow....

What he should do is find himself a fine English-speaking woman out there. One that will never, and I mean NEVER demand for money while they are just in the meeting process.

Of course this would help limit miscommunications and probably is the best path to follow.  I would not consider rudimentary communications as inspiring, even in bed BTDT - but that's just me..  Others may still enjoy somehow and that's them..

I still say there is no son. Jesus, $7000 for a broken arm?

Again depends on whether or not it was a demand or comment or as Gator indicated some other error.. yet a bit puzzling that he did not meet the son (or anyone else in her family) in two trips.

Run Jim, run.

My wife always says.. "Maybe rain, maybe snow.. nobody knows"

In any case, Jim is getting some on the ground experience and a host of thought provoking comments here.

Can't get any better than that.

[Misha]

Again depends on whether or not it was a demand or comment or as Gator indicated some other error..

The problem is that even when a woman does not demand it and is dropping a hint, she may be merely testing him to see whether he is a лох     In other words, you slowly build up your patsy to see how much he will eventually give you based on demands and hints    Call me "greedy" but I had little patience for such games, and the women I dated were perfectly capable of buying their own bras and panties 

[Gator]

Boy Gator, I never thought I'd say this with you advice but, man you are wrong.

Everyone was jumping to the conclusion that this woman was bad-hearted based on a few incomplete facts.  I think we should always try to examine both perspectives.

He SHOULD pay for her English lessons?   What he should do is find himself a fine English-speaking woman out there.

I agree with that.  English-speaking women are much preferred.   However, our man Jim did not choose a woman who speaks English.  Next time he will if there is a next time.
 
The amount of money he is spending on lessons is small, so small that they can not have a serious conversation for 2-3 years. But her progress in learning is a very important gauge.  If she takes this little seed money and shows improvement, that is a good sign that she is sincere about moving to Jim's hometown.   If she shows no improvement, that is obviously bad, very bad.
 
 

One that will never, and I mean NEVER demand for money while they are just in the meeting process.

Did she demand or ask?  Jim gives no clues.  If she demanded, I agree that that would be a big turnoff.  The items were not expensive other than the trip to Egypt.  After  spending $2000  for air travel and lodging, I don't see why it is wrong to spend pocket money for something that pleases the woman.  In a manner of speaking, these women have been trained by RM (or their friends who are questioning their motives for sure have RW-RM mentality).
 
 
 
 

I still say there is no son. Jesus, $7000 for a broken arm?    Run Jim, run.
 

I doubt that you take all reported field data at face value, especially something that seems like an anomaly..

[BC]

The problem is that even when a woman does not demand it and is dropping a hint, she may be merely testing him to see whether he is a лох     In other words, you slowly build up your patsy to see how much he will eventually give you based on demands and hints    Call me "greedy" but I had little patience for such games, and the women I dated were perfectly capable of buying their own bras and panties 

Misha,

Understand and even agree...

but taken in the context of "with help from the Internet translator, arms fingers and such – yes so we were able to communicate without the big problems." who really knows..

[Misha]

BC, it is also easy to find excuses for questionable behavior. As for the possibility that it was a typo or error, it suffices to ask. If she answers that yes it cost that much, then something is definitely up, and he is likely being set up...

[Faux Pas]

After two trips, $7000 for a broken arm and a pizza, one might think he would at least met the son he had so much invested in 


Gator, you always take the pragmatic view and that is an admirable trait but, there is really nothing Jim has stated that would lend any credence to this woman being honorable. He's getting played and you are giving him hope IMO

[Gator]

The problem is that even when a woman does not demand it and is dropping a hint, she may be merely testing him to see whether he is a лох     In other words, you slowly build up your patsy to see how much he will eventually give you based on demands and hints    Call me "greedy" but I had little patience for such games....

Women tend to probe boundaries in such ways.   I accept it as their nature, and it is even fun unless they are pushy (demanding).   I certainly explored sex in such a manner, and if I demanded something I rarely received it. 
 

  and the women I dated were perfectly capable of buying their own bras and panties 
   

Lingerie is worth every penny because the best part of buying lingerie was the private modeling show that evening and the woman purring like a cat.
 
 

BC, it is also easy to find excuses for questionable behavior. As for the possibility that it was a typo or error, it suffices to ask. If she says that it cost that much, then something is definitely up, and he is likely being set up...

   The $7000 is absurd.   Can she be that stupid to think her лох will accept such an absurd figure.  Jim needs to tell us if she said this in passing or was asking for money.    Where are you Jim?

[ML]

    The $7000 is absurd.   

Not if this young man is a potential major league pitcher in USA.

[Gator]

After two trips, $7000 for a broken arm and a pizza, one might think he would at least met the son he had so much invested in 

He's invested one pizza ($10 unless she asked for mushrooms).   Jim's writing is not conclusive about the $7000.  Clue:  he refers to lingerie as underwear, so my guess is that Jim does not have a lot of experience with women, and the implications are many.
 

Gator, you always take the pragmatic view and that is an admirable trait but, there is really nothing Jim has stated that would lend any credence to this woman being honorable. He's getting played and you are giving him hope IMO

A philosophy of guilty until proven innocent?   My attitude when dating RW was different.  I gave them the benefit of the doubt on the pennies but questioned and usually stopped at the pounds.  Meanwhile I relaxed and had fun rather than inflicting myself with a case of scam paranoia.  RW can be a lot of fun if you get them to relax and to trust you.

P. S.  I never felt that I was scammed.  I walked from a couple of insincere women who slipped through my screening filters.

[Jim]

Thanks for all the replies

Let me first tell that she have the son. I've seen photos of the arm and also of him. So about the broken arm I am 100% sure and also that he really exist. I had this idea about 7000 Dollars really was a lot of money for a broken arm.

And she never asked me for the 7000 Dollars for help to the broken arm. She told me she would ask for help for this broken arm at her ex-husband (the father of the son) and her ex-husband no. 2. I never asked about she got the money (maybe my mistake).

I just thinking about she maybe just expect that a man from the west - "just pay" and are happy if the woman are happy. I told her that if should move up here for good, yes so it would cost a lot of money because, she the first year had to learn Swedish and we together would have to find a new place to live because we should start our life together with a totally new place for us both. I think she understood that.

I don't have any problems to pay for present, but i don't want to a kind of sponsor. I search for a woman I can live with for the rest of my life - it is very simple.

When we are together she is very caring and I really feels that she likes me, but of course I believe a woman can and will do many things just for presents and money.

It was my hope that she now the second time we met that she at least would introduce me to her son, but I don't think I should ask her about such things - I would expect that she did her by herself.

I am still thinking about what to do, but I just have my doubts because I don't know so much about life and women in Ukraine.

But again thanks for all the replies.

Jim

[BC]

Meanwhile I relaxed and had fun rather than inflicting myself with a case of scam paranoia. 

Had to laugh over these words.

I had already proposed to my wife and was between trips to get married by the time I hit RW fora looking for immigration information.

I'm glad I did not google earlier, but still reading the stories did send me in a 'paranoia loop' for a short while.

[Muzh]

 
A philosophy of guilty until proven innocent?   My attitude when dating RW was different.  I gave them the benefit of the doubt on the pennies but questioned and usually stopped at the pounds.  Meanwhile I relaxed and had fun rather than inflicting myself with a case of scam paranoia.  RW can be a lot of fun if you get them to relax and to trust you.

Gator, I am one who always gives the benefit of the doubt. However, in this case I cannot. I've been to UA many times and met many women who are my wife's friends and acquaintances, and also some friends of a good buddy who recently died in Kharkiv. The woman Jim has described I've seen and that is why I told him to run. One thing I've learned about real Ukrainian women is that they are very proud of who they are and would rather go through anguish than ask a relative stranger for any money. And then I've met the other and it is not a coincidence that they have divorced their guys and not in a nice way.


Just saying.

[Misha]

Women tend to probe boundaries in such ways. 

Men have to set boundaries as well, it is called say nyet and not spending every times she asks for something