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Author Topic: Retirement in Ukraine  (Read 11861 times)

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Offline ghost of moon goddess

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #50 on: December 09, 2011, 02:57:24 PM »

Fact is it's much more of a "user culture" in Ukraine and generally people are more likely to use and take advantage of other people when they are given the opportunity. I guess it's that third world mentality in a way.


Eduard, I assume when you speak of American, Ukrainian or any other country's culture you  are referring to the shared language, traditions and beliefs that set each of these peoples apart from others!?

It is obvious that culture -  the values, traditions, upbringing, ets - is what creates the person, UW particularly.

How would you explain that  AM (retaining original traditions of their "superior first world culture") are looking for serious relationships and even falling in love with UW  that bear the imprint of personalities with "the third world mentality"?

When AM are lucky enough to have the best, why take anything less ???       
If you want to keep your expressions convergent, never allow them a single degree of freedom.

Offline Eduard

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2011, 04:03:23 PM »
Eduard, I assume when you speak of American, Ukrainian or any other country's culture you  are referring to the shared language, traditions and beliefs that set each of these peoples apart from others!?

It is obvious that culture -  the values, traditions, upbringing, ets - is what creates the person, UW particularly.

How would you explain that  AM (retaining original traditions of their "superior first world culture") are looking for serious relationships and even falling in love with UW  that bear the imprint of personalities with "the third world mentality"?

When AM are lucky enough to have the best, why take anything less ???       
Goddess, I was mostly talking about two traits - friendliness and rudeness. In my experience people are friendlier and nicer to each other in the USA than in Ukraine. I'm not talking about how people act with some one who they have a close personal relationship with, rather how they treat total strangers. personally I get treated equally well whether I'm in Ukraine, Russia or the USA but my statement is based on the observations through out many years and much time spent in all 3 countries. I agree with you that every person is different and it all depends on how they were brought up.


How would you explain that  AM (retaining original traditions of their "superior first world culture") are looking for serious relationships and even falling in love with UW  that bear the imprint of personalities with "the third world mentality"?
Although there are wonderful women in Ukraine, I'm sure you would agree with me that there are plenty of women who are not so nice. Why do WM look for women in Ukraine? Several reasons:
1. UW on average are a lot prettier and slimmer than available WW.
2. The mail order bride industry has been selling the hype about RW and UW which isn't always true, and WM have been buying it.
3. The demographics make it a lot easier for a WM to find a desirable mate in Russia or Ukraine compared to places like Canada or the USA


Just FYI, I love my Ukrainian family, they will do anything for me and I for them. My father was born and raised in Ukraine and both of my grandmothers are from Ukraine. So I'm not biased or prejudice, just making objective observations. There are lots of great people in Ukraine and it pains me to see how they must survive in their country run by gangsters where they have to do whatever it takes to survive. Lots of times people have to be involved in illegal or criminal activities there simply because there is no other way to survive. I've observed several former criminals totally change once they came to the USA. They got decent jobs where they could make good money and support themselves and their families and they simply didn't need to be involved in doing something shady any more, because we live in a country of laws. Nothing is perfect off course, there is corruption and lawlessness here as well, but nothing like in Ukraine. But America is changing rapidly and we might have a serious financial and maybe even a political crisis here pretty soon IMO. Our politicians have done a great job looting the country and if things don't change quickly the US could be at the point of no return. I hope and pray that we can still turn this country around. It still is the greatest country in the world IMO.

Online calmissile

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2011, 04:51:30 PM »
I am starting this thread to hear from Americans and others that have migrated to Ukraine for retirement.  Would like to get opinions from those actually living in Ukraine as to the monthly costs, relative enjoyment of life while living there and the downsides, if any.

Would also hope to hear from some folks that might be living outside the big cities.  Also, those with large gardens to supplement their food sources.


It's amazing how you can ask a specific question and have a whole thread full of unrelated answers.
I am not going to respond to all the comments but will address a few.  As far as I can tell there were maybe two reponses from people that either live in or have lived in Ukraine.
1.  We have the option of retiring in Ukraine, USA, or moving back and forth.
2.  I don't need to worry about buying property in Ukraine, we already own a farm and home there.
3.  The health care responses was appreciated and thank you for the info.  It is a valid concern.
4.  I have already been twice to Ukraine and we spent a continuous month together in the city we have a home.  My opinion about the culture, the language, etc. is all that is necessary on this topic.  If I did not like it we would not keep our home there.
5.  The Social Security comments are only partially true.  I spent the better part of yesterday at the SS office with them using their internal site to research the questions.  The only reason the FSU countries are on the 'special requirements' list is because the US does not have an agreement with them to receive death notices and vital statistics.  The US does have it with Russian and some other FSU countries, but not Ukraine.  It has nothing to do with corruption.  SS wants to minimize sending out SS checks to deceased persons and have someone else cashing them.  It is NOT illegal to have your check deposited to a US bank and using your ATM card to retrieve the money.  There can be all kinds of potential problems that can occur doing this but not because of the SSA.  You CAN have your check delivered to the embassy in Kiev and you have to pick it up personally.  There are many other options such as letting the SS direct deposits accumulate in one account and using another account to draw money from.  This is not a big issue and not sure why some thought it was.  That is why I went to the SS office to find out what the options were.
6.  I don't need to move from my current location to grow a garden.  I buy groceries at a store like everyone else :)  When in Ukraine it is part of the culture plus, we like eating out of the garden.
7.  As far as the atmosphere, corruption, and the rest of the negative comments about Ukraine I will trust the wisdom and advice of my wife that was born in Ukraine and been there 46 years.  My personal experience while being there paints a much different picture than some of the comments suggest.  In any case those type of tradeoff's are for us to decide.
8.  I don't belive I indicated that I had planned to make a permanent move and detachment from our home in the US.  If I did so, I was mistaken.  We plan on keeping both homes and can freely live wherever we wish.

I hope that my simple request to hear from those living in Ukraine might still be answered.

Doug
Doug (Calmissile)

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2011, 04:51:30 PM »

Offline siberia

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #53 on: December 09, 2011, 05:06:50 PM »

  We plan on keeping both homes and can freely live wherever we wish.

Doug



I can only comment on this statement.  Technically, it will be a few years till you can do that. Your wife will come here and while waiting for green card, any time spent out of the USA is counted against her. The government  does not want to give green cards to people who do not want to LIVE in the USA.  Once she is a US citizen, that changes of course. She can do what she wants as for travel.
I cannot quote the letter of law on this, as my experience doing all the immigration processes are too long ago, starting in 1998.  I do know that this fact is true though and has not changed.

Offline Misha

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #54 on: December 09, 2011, 05:13:44 PM »
2.  I don't need to worry about buying property in Ukraine, we already own a farm and home there.


Technically, it is not the "we" that owns the property, but the "she." I expect that it is your fiance who owns a farm and a home in Ukraine.


Quote
I hope that my simple request to hear from those living in Ukraine might still be answered.


You might want to search and read the posts by krimster a long-time resident, very jaded, and from what he posted very happy to be back living in the USA.

Online calmissile

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #55 on: December 09, 2011, 05:17:08 PM »
Thanks Misha,
Your correct, she owns it but refers to it as ours.   Hopefully in a couple of months it will be technically 'we'.

I will look for the posts your mentioned, thanks.
Doug (Calmissile)

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2011, 09:42:43 AM »
Calmissle


Honestly, IMHO it seems like you are still romanticizing about Ukraine. Understandable. I understand you are looking for info from those that may have blazed that trail before you. There are some. There aren't many here who have been long term successful but some who went the distance. I would encourage you to do a search on RWD for "ScottinCrimea" and "Krimster" Both lived in Ukraine. Both posted about it and even though sometimes agreed, most times did not. However, both eventually, left for different reasons. It might enlighten you somewhat
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Offline Daveman

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #57 on: December 10, 2011, 11:45:13 AM »
Calmissle


Honestly, IMHO it seems like you are still romanticizing about Ukraine. Understandable. I understand you are looking for info from those that may have blazed that trail before you. There are some. There aren't many here who have been long term successful but some who went the distance. I would encourage you to do a search on RWD for "ScottinCrimea" and "Krimster" Both lived in Ukraine. Both posted about it and even though sometimes agreed, most times did not. However, both eventually, left for different reasons. It might enlighten you somewhat


Yep, and also LiveFromUkraine as well as the late dbneeley







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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #58 on: December 10, 2011, 12:17:26 PM »
I am starting this thread to hear from Americans and others that have migrated to Ukraine for retirement.  Would like to get opinions from those actually living in Ukraine 

Would also hope to hear from some folks that might be living outside the big cities.  Also, those with large gardens to supplement their food sources.


It's amazing how you can ask a specific question and have a whole thread full of unrelated answers.
 
Tone there Doug.
After all, this is primarily, a Western guys who want to bring their foreign brides to their home forum....open to all who wish to post.

There was actually only one such response that I saw [LiveFromUkraine]
And you didn't seem to like like his remarks.
I just only curious are you actually retirement age?

 I did see this on moon goddess' link...

Quote
Ukrainian banks are permitted to open accounts for foreign nationals, including banks accoutns for business purposes.

For more information please refer to be publication by Carlton Legal "Banking in Ukraine: Golden Opportunities" (overview of banking in Ukraine, including banking regulations, reliability of Ukrainian banks, international banks active in Ukraine, opening bank accounts in Ukraine, money transfers, deposits in Ukrainian banks and many other issues). The publication is available by e-mail at carltoninfo@ukr.net
Good luck 
Karl

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #59 on: December 10, 2011, 01:19:27 PM »
Thanks guys for the responses.
I am searching for the links you suggested.  I have read some of Krimster's posts and will search for the others.

Tfcrew,
Yes I retired several years ago, however I have been doing consulting work on several DOD programs the past 5 years and also am doing Avionics work for a local company in my lab in my home.

Doug
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 01:31:06 PM by calmissile »
Doug (Calmissile)

Offline Manny

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #60 on: December 10, 2011, 06:05:21 PM »
Your correct, she owns it but refers to it as ours.   Hopefully in a couple of months it will be technically 'we'.

Not really. Hers will be the name on the registration; not yours.

Dont put the cart before the horse. You are not even married yet - there is no "we". Stated intent is all you have right now.

It is hers, and will remain hers. Don't fool yourself you would ever convince a foreign court - in a language you don't speak - otherwise. On the other hand, she would easily convince an American court that as your wife she has a claim to your worldly goods.

My wife owns several properties in Russia, and a *nice* dacha by the Volga, and a few garages and some other stuff. After half a decade, I am not foolish enough to refer to them as "ours". My name isn't on them, they are not mine, I cant sell them or use them as collateral. They are hers. I call them her safety net. Income is minimal, but if I dropped off the twig tomorrow, she would have stuff to sell to iron out the creases in life for a while.

As you have been told on two forums now - a dose of realism is in order. You have had advice from people who *actually* own property in the FSU. Because what you read was not convenient, you now seek to limit the responses to just Ukraine. That wont work either. However many times you re-frame the question or try to limit the replies, the answers will be the same whichever forum you choose to hover on.

Its like "Ask the Audience" on "Who Wants to be a Millionaire?" - The collective is usually right. The people who have and/or do live in these places know more than the guy who visited twice and thinks he knows it all.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 06:19:06 PM by Manny »
Author of the Russian Bride Guide.

Offline Misha

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #61 on: December 11, 2011, 04:39:19 AM »
It is hers, and will remain hers.


Yes, and past experience of other members does highlight this. I do not recall the details, but I believe it was ScottinCrimea who had invested in property in Ukraine and it was either in his wife's or his MIL's name. [Others can correct me if I am wrong.] He was confident that his MIL would treat him honestly. We never knew the end of the story, but I expect that the property that was hers remained hers and I sadly doubt that Scott ever received a penny or a hryvnia in return...

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #62 on: December 12, 2011, 07:32:57 AM »
How would you explain that  AM (retaining original traditions of their "superior first world culture") are looking for serious relationships and even falling in love with UW  that bear the imprint of personalities with "the third world mentality"?

When AM are lucky enough to have the best, why take anything less ???       

 
LMAO
 
Love it!
"Mr Putin is discovering that global finance is more frightened of the US Securities and Exchange Commission than Russian T90 tanks."

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #62 on: December 12, 2011, 07:32:57 AM »

Online Muzh

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #63 on: December 12, 2011, 07:35:26 AM »
Calmissle


Honestly, IMHO it seems like you are still romanticizing about Ukraine. Understandable. I understand you are looking for info from those that may have blazed that trail before you. There are some. There aren't many here who have been long term successful but some who went the distance. I would encourage you to do a search on RWD for "ScottinCrimea" and "Krimster" Both lived in Ukraine. Both posted about it and even though sometimes agreed, most times did not. However, both eventually, left for different reasons. It might enlighten you somewhat

Not so fast.
 
I know a one Jimmy Key who retired to Crimea quite a few years ago to be with his young wife (I think he is in his 60s and she in her 40s or mid-30s) and he raves about it.
"Mr Putin is discovering that global finance is more frightened of the US Securities and Exchange Commission than Russian T90 tanks."

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #64 on: December 12, 2011, 07:46:23 AM »

Not so fast.
 
I know a one Jimmy Key who retired to Crimea quite a few years ago to be with his young wife (I think he is in his 60s and she in her 40s or mid-30s) and he raves about it.


I don't know how you mined an opinion out of that post Muzh because quite frankly, I don't have one.


IIRC, ScottinCrimea raved about it as well and also IIRC Krimster was a bit disenchanted with the whole scene. I remember Scott not wanting to return to the US and Krim wanted out like his ass was on fire. I only mentioned these two posters so calmissle could get a more realistic idea of the different views from the real "boots on the ground" so to speak.


Did Jimmy Key post here in the past?


You know it is my opinion that one could make a half dozen vacation visits to Iran or Bangladesh and if the visits were pleasant each time like finding a beautiful woman to share the vacation with, the formed opinion of the visitor is likely a bit more than skewed. Would you agree?
"It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled"  ~ Mark Twain

Online Muzh

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #65 on: December 12, 2011, 07:53:06 AM »

I don't know how you mined an opinion out of that post Muzh because quite frankly, I don't have one.
 

Relax Bud. I guess I "read it wrong". The good and bad, that is.



Did Jimmy Key post here in the past?


Don't know. I know him fro the RWL and the RBL.



You know it is my opinion that one could make a half dozen vacation visits to Iran or Bangladesh and if the visits were pleasant each time like finding a beautiful woman to share the vacation with, the formed opinion of the visitor is likely a bit more than skewed. Would you agree?

You ask because you didn't read the story I posted upthread. Then you'd know that I agree.
 
I just wanted Doug to know that it can be done, however, this is not for the faint of heart.
"Mr Putin is discovering that global finance is more frightened of the US Securities and Exchange Commission than Russian T90 tanks."

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #66 on: December 12, 2011, 07:55:51 AM »
I know a one Jimmy Key who retired to Crimea quite a few years ago to be with his young wife (I think he is in his 60s and she in her 40s or mid-30s) and he raves about it.


I know of another guy who has retired to Crimea and has lived there a few years with his Ukrainian wife. I have invited him to contribute here .....

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #67 on: December 12, 2011, 08:02:35 AM »
I've never been to Ukraine so I have no honest opinion of it. I do personally know a number of Ukrainians but, that hardly makes me qualified to give an opinion. However, FWIW, I do know Russia.


I can state emphatically, even if I were independently wealthy (which isn't expected in this lifetime) I would never move to live permanently or to retire in Russia. I absolutely love the country, the culture and the people and I know a lot about it. Which is why you'll never find me a permanent resident. The disadvantages of being a foreigner in Russia is the main reason. I imagine it is much the same in Ukraine. It's much to unstable for long term planning. Not that the US is much better at this point in time but, I wouldn't hitch my long term security wagon to the FSU. The only safe bet for a foreigner in these places is that your investments are gone the day you make them.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 08:04:13 AM by Faux Pas »
"It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled"  ~ Mark Twain

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #68 on: December 12, 2011, 08:09:28 AM »

Relax Bud. I guess I "read it wrong". The good and bad, that is.

 


I didn't take that as a lob my friend or an intended jab back at you. Just pointing it out.
Quote
Don't know. I know him fro the RWL and the RBL.

 
You ask because you didn't read the story I posted upthread. Then you'd know that I agree.
 
I just wanted Doug to know that it can be done, however, this is not for the faint of heart.


Seems to me from my vantage point, this little factoid is being overlooked by the OP. Such a move could very easily "be done", this I have no doubt. How one comes out the other end of it would be the question.
"It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled"  ~ Mark Twain

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #69 on: December 12, 2011, 08:33:00 AM »
Ade,

1.  A quieter, more simple life.  Out of the hustle and bustle of the big city.
2.  Much more friendly people, and closer ties to neighbors.
3.  A new adventure in a different country/culture.
4.  Closer ties to my wifes family.
5.  Enjoyment of raising ones own food on the farm.
6.  No economic worries.


With this being such a big pile of crap its hard to figure out where to start  picking it all apart, so I wont even try.  My husband does not want to retire in the US, as he is (in his own words) "sick and tired of bs in this country" but we want our retirement to be 100% problem free, which Ukraine (and Russia, for that matter) is not. We dont mind living in a village but it needs to be a 100% civilized village, with access to western quality medical health at the very least!
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 08:35:51 AM by Donna_Pedro »
Kaplah!

Offline SMS60

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #70 on: December 12, 2011, 09:57:42 AM »
Another American male who is selling his soul on the whims of a woman.

This is not what Doug wants. None of the excuses make sense. This is what his fiance wants. He is afraid to tell her no for the fear of her rejecting him.

Working for the DOD and wants to move to Ukraine. Don't make sense. The power of female persuasion.
Quote from: Simoni on Today at 09:06:15 AM
But my understanding is that "Anything Goes" does not really mean "anything" if that "anything" violates the TOS.

Offline Misha

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #71 on: December 12, 2011, 10:00:32 AM »
The power of female persuasion.


Is this truly what she wants? Call me cynical, but I have my doubts. Her children are still young, I expect that she would prefer that they finish their schooling in the United States and get an American passport and have the option of working and living in the USA in the future  :-X

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #72 on: December 12, 2011, 10:01:26 AM »
We dont mind living in a village but it needs to be a 100% civilized village, with access to western quality medical health at the very least!


In that case I would recommend Kansas any day over Ukraine  ;)

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #72 on: December 12, 2011, 10:01:26 AM »

Offline SMS60

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #73 on: December 12, 2011, 10:30:26 AM »
Misha your so cute. I'm just giving my opinion like everyone else

Why don't you ask Doug the question not me. I don't know
Quote from: Simoni on Today at 09:06:15 AM
But my understanding is that "Anything Goes" does not really mean "anything" if that "anything" violates the TOS.

Offline Misha

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Re: Retirement in Ukraine
« Reply #74 on: December 12, 2011, 10:38:49 AM »
Misha your so cute. I'm just giving my opinion like everyone else

Why don't you ask Doug the question not me. I don't know


I did bring it up, but Doug never responded  :-X

 

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Re: visa for new wife and her two sons? by calmissile
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Re: visa for new wife and her two sons? by calmissile
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Re: Putin Admits Helping Yanukovych Flee by Muzh
Today at 09:24:36 AM

Re: visa for new wife and her two sons? by pokerintherear
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Re: Putin Admits Helping Yanukovych Flee by Chicagoguy
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Re: another Russian submarine down by lordtiberius
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Re: My view of the war by lordtiberius
Today at 07:31:56 AM

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