What happens if you meet a girl with a child ?

[celluloidheros]

I have heard and read that if you meet a woman with a child that getting the child out of the country with the mother can be difficult.   Is there any place that i can go to read up on this ?  Does it matter how much the father has been part of the child life ? What if the child has never met his father and the father's where abouts is unknown ?    i'm just wondering if there is anything that you can do upfront or is it better just to avoid girls with kids ?   Also does it vary country by country ?  Thanks, Don   

[JR]

In the FSU you will have to obtain the father's permission to remove the child from the country. It can be easy, it can be impossible. I have heard of stories where the father was happy to let the child go to a place where there may be a better future and I have heard of extortion to outright refusal for spite.

[TheTraveler]

Before considering the process of bringing kids over here... Have you given serious thought as to whether you prefer/don't prefer a woman with kids?
 
If you have a preference on an important attribute, why not make it a strict rule in your search?  There's only like a couple billion women to choose from.

[mendeleyev]

She will need the father's permission to take the child abroad. In some cases if he has been absent for long and recent periods in the child's life, with no child support paid, a court will approve the visa.

[celluloidheros]

Do the rules very from country to country ?  The reason that I ask is that I'm trying to learn what the laws of the country are before starting my search and making the rules of my search.    I can only imagine falling in love with someone with a child and then having the father put the block on it after years of getting to know one another. 

i'm wondering if the rules very much country to country and if there is something the husband could sign ahead of time.   I'm sure the woman would take as much child support from the father, signing anything ahead of time may be impossible. 

See, for me  It doesn't matter if the woman has kids or not.  if I like her, I like her.  but I would never think of asking her to leave her kids behind, ever (Nor would any good woman).  But if there is no way to tell whether a father will sign off on the kids, then it's a huge risk to get to know her in the first place. 

I would like to have another kid of my own, the question is if a woman is 30-35 with no kids and has been married, does that mean she can't have kids ?  Would she tell you if she couldn't ?  I'd like to think she would. 

Wow, I have to tell you this one makes my head hurt. 

[Ranetka]

Do the rules very from country to country ?  The reason that I ask is that I'm trying to learn what the laws of the country are before starting my search and making the rules of my search.    I can only imagine falling in love with someone with a child and then having the father put the block on it after years of getting to know one another. 

i'm wondering if the rules very much country to country and if there is something the husband could sign ahead of time.   I'm sure the woman would take as much child support from the father, signing anything ahead of time may be impossible. 

See, for me  It doesn't matter if the woman has kids or not.  if I like her, I like her.  but I would never think of asking her to leave her kids behind, ever (Nor would any good woman).  But if there is no way to tell whether a father will sign off on the kids, then it's a huge risk to get to know her in the first place. 

I would like to have another kid of my own, the question is if a woman is 30-35 with no kids and has been married, does that mean she can't have kids ?  Would she tell you if she couldn't ?  I'd like to think she would. 

Wow, I have to tell you this one makes my head hurt.

I would suggest as one of your first questions to a lady you like ask her if she has a sole custody of her child and if not how involved the father is. Make the decision to pursue the lady or not based on her answer.
 
If the lady has no children ask her if she wants to have one. There is no way of telling if someone (including your good self) is infertile in advance.

[celluloidheros]

I would suggest as one of your first questions to a lady you like ask her if she has a sole custody of her child and if not how involved the father is. Make the decision to pursue the lady or not based on her answer.
 
If the lady has no children ask her if she wants to have one. There is no way of telling if someone (including your good self) is infertile in advance.

Okay so the secret is the woman getting sole custody ?  Once the woman has sole custody, then the child remains with her no matter where she goes or how involved the dad is ? 

Sure hope I'm not shooting blanks, but you are right.   can't tell without getting tested.   

[mendeleyev]

Once the woman has sole custody, then the child remains with her no matter where she goes or how involved the dad is ? 

Not always when the mother is taking the child out of the country. You should ask her up front but also do your own research independently. Call the Armenian Embassy in Washington or the US Embassy in Yerevan.


1 American Avenue
Yerevan 0082, Republic of Armenia
Telephone: (+37410) 464-700
Fax:(+37410) 464-742
E-mail: usinfo@usa.am
 
Webmaster: webmaster@usa.am
Consular E-mail: IVYerevan@state.gov (for immigrant visa and adoption-related inquiries)

[Gator]

Read LAMan's unfortunate situation:
 
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14205.msg287680;topicseen#msg287680'
Nevertheless, many other RW including two whom I know very well  have been successful in obtaining sole custody.
 
 
 
 

[Faux Pas]

Okay so the secret is the woman getting sole custody ?  Once the woman has sole custody, then the child remains with her no matter where she goes or how involved the dad is ? 

Sure hope I'm not shooting blanks, but you are right.   can't tell without getting tested.   

It's a dicey situation that can go south in a hurry and often the ex hubby holds the cards. But at this juncture you may have the cart well before the horse. Your trip isn't a shopping expedition and you like the model that has a child. Concentrate on the woman, build that relationship, alert of the bridges the may need to be crossed or attention later. Often child custody can be the first crisis you deal with as a couple. Keep in mind, the only thing easy in these relationships is finding a beautiful wonderful woman. Most that comes after isn't all peaches and cream. It requires much work, much effort, much sanity check but the fruits and end results are usually well worth it.

[celluloidheros]

Thanks for everyones time and input, before I put my time, money and heart into this journey I want to make sure that I know what Im in for.  It just seems like the women who have shown interest in me are 30 something and mostly all have children.  This is a new frontier for me so I am in the steep part of the learning curve.  Right now Im thinking it may be better to find someone without kids or ith older kids.  But If I do meet someone with young children we both need to take our time and make sure we know what the road ahead looks like.  I had no idea......

[Anotherkiwi]

Read LAMan's unfortunate situation:...

You mean XMan.

[Gator]

You mean XMan.

Yes, thank you.  I am losing my mind.  Overexposure to RW?   

[BC]

Right now Im thinking it may be better to find someone without kids or ith older kids.  But If I do meet someone with young children we both need to take our time and make sure we know what the road ahead looks like.  I had no idea......

As far as challenges and complexity goes, think of it as factors..

not 1+1=2 but instead 2²=4 or if more kids involved 2^kids

Spend a good deal of time in the child's normal environment, watch the family dynamics including types of punishment and rewards.

Don't think of a child as a facilitator to get where you want to go.

[JR]

Okay so the secret is the woman getting sole custody ?  Once the woman has sole custody, then the child remains with her no matter where she goes or how involved the dad is ? 
 

Not necessarily. I have sole legal custody and primary residency of my daughter but I cannot change her county of permenant residence for more than 30 days without the court's or her mother's written permission.
When it comes to these matters you need to tread carefully, keep your eyes open, be realistic and get "real, local" information.
It could be as simple as the woman is a widow and does what she pleases to the father fighting toothe and nail to stop it. Even after a long absense if he moves closer, starts making attempts to see the child, etc. the court will probably deny the request.
I have not heard of too many father's outright saying no but it happens.

[LAman]

Yes, thank you.  I am losing my mind.  Overexposure to RW?   

No...just thinking about me!!! 

[XMan]

I used to think guys avoided women with children because they did not want to take over someone else's responsibility, or they did not want to deal with being a stepfather, etc.
 
Now I think they just may have been wiser and more prudent. 

[LAman]

I used to think guys avoided women with children because they did not want to take over someone else's responsibility, or they did not want to deal with being a stepfather, etc.
 
Now I think they just may have been wiser and more prudent.

I originally avoided women with children for reasons you are going through...having heard some horror stories but over time I have changed but only for women with younger children.....figuring I would have more time to influence the child positively, at least I hoped!!! Lots of questions though about the father!!!

[calmissile]

 I can only  comment from personal experience.  JR's posting is correct. It can be very easy or next to impossible.  In the case of UA women wanting to immigrate to the USA, it is necessary to use a K-1/K-2 visa.  The K-2 will require that the mother obtain a notarized consent from the father giving his permission for his child to immigrate to the US.

In our case a meeting was held with the mother, father, and daughter.  Apparently it was not a pleasant meeting, however the father agreed and the agreement was notarized.  As I recall, it is necessary for the notarized document to be in the possesion of the child during the embassy interview as well as carried with her during her flight to the US.

I have read in several places that oftentimes the father will give permission with a bribe. I do not know personally if this is true or not.

If the father does not agree voluntarily, it is my understanding that the mother can go to court in UA and petition the court.  From what I have read, the judge will evaluate how much the father has been involved in the raising of his child and whether he has provided financial support since the divorce.  Perhaps some other members can provide examples of other first hand experience in these more difficult cases.

In any case, the whole issue of obtaining permisson is strictly up to the mother, and the petitioner has nothing to say about it.

[BdHvA]

I can only  comment from personal experience.  JR's posting is correct. It can be very easy or next to impossible.  In the case of UA women wanting to immigrate to the USA, it is necessary to use a K-1/K-2 visa.  The K-2 will require that the mother obtain a notarized consent from the father giving his permission for his child to immigrate to the US.

I have read in several places that oftentimes the father will give permission with a bribe. I do not know personally if this is true or not.

If the father does not agree voluntarily, it is my understanding that the mother can go to court in UA and petition the court.  From what I have read, the judge will evaluate how much the father has been involved in the raising of his child and whether he has provided financial support since the divorce.  Perhaps some other members can provide examples of other first hand experience in these more difficult cases.

JT and Calmissle are right. Very few women will leave with out there young children to live in the west. In fact I would have large doubts about the mother who would emigrate without her child(ren).

For what it is worth I have met one man who bribed a father and left with the child and his bride for Western Europe.