Wow... Meat Market Socials?

[magnetic_fields]

Maybe you could be more specific? What is the risk of "winging it"? It really not as difficult as the last 2000 words you've typed trying to explain it is. Using your own analogy, when you go say, to the West Coast for a vacation, do you employ a wingman to scout out the babes for you before you go?

I'm not trying to bust your balls here magnetic but, there's A LOT of static everywhere about dating women from the FSU and you sound as if you've slurped a good bit of it up. You're not building a house, fixing a car or installing some billing software. What you are talking about here is hiring a guy to do the legwork on building your relationship. If that floats your boat fine, just call it what it is.

Meeting/dating FSU certainly has some different nuances to it along with the time, travel and expense but, at the end of the day it is still "boy meets girl". You can take the less traveled path or the superhighway but, eventually it is all down to you and the woman. Ed or any other consultant won't be there 

Ok I will be specific. I went to Moscow in september 2011. The girl I met spoke perfect English. But I was lucky that she did. When I met her online back in February on singles.ru she was the only one I could have meaningful communication with because all the other women spoke Russian and google translate is not enough. I also did not have hours a day to keep sending letters to random girls hoping they would reply back.

Now working with a guy like Ed I can reach out to 10 times more women and not have any obstacles in language. It's that simple. Because in the end isn't dating a numbers game. You have to meet several people before you can decide who you like.

Anyway I went to Russia alone Without an interpreter or a guide. I'm just saying I see the value of Ed's service.

And for the record I don't need a guide in San Francisco because I speak English. It comes down to language. Doesn't it for everybody?

[magnetic_fields]

Maybe you could be more specific? What is the risk of "winging it"? It really not as difficult as the last 2000 words you've typed trying to explain it is. Using your own analogy, when you go say, to the West Coast for a vacation, do you employ a wingman to scout out the babes for you before you go?

I'm not trying to bust your balls here magnetic but, there's A LOT of static everywhere about dating women from the FSU and you sound as if you've slurped a good bit of it up. You're not building a house, fixing a car or installing some billing software. What you are talking about here is hiring a guy to do the legwork on building your relationship. If that floats your boat fine, just call it what it is.

Meeting/dating FSU certainly has some different nuances to it along with the time, travel and expense but, at the end of the day it is still "boy meets girl". You can take the less traveled path or the superhighway but, eventually it is all down to you and the woman. Ed or any other consultant won't be there 

And also Ed's tasks are to find profiles online and translate letters. That's it! It takes hours to go through hundreds of profiles and send an introductory letter. Once they reply the first time I take over.  I then write everything from the heart. There is no interference from Ed-he just translates. And also when I actually met the women Ed introduced to me Ed wasnt even present! So they had no idea who even was!? Now where is Ed courting the girl for me?

I don't know why people are so against this type of service? I mean you guys must have tons of free time to translate and search for profiles on your own. I don't. I'd rather pay for translation and finding profiles. Ultimately I am the one who will meet the girl anyway. Ed is just a translator. What's wrong with that?

[Gator]

In russia or any other country I would need a guide.  It's as simple as that. I am all for "do it yourself" attitudes and self-reliance. But this is one area where I would not risk just "winging it"....

We are not against the service that Eduard provides.  There is the issue of cost; however, if you see sufficient value in Ed's services, great!   What you miss is some of the joy of the venture.  The cold letter writing was fun IMO.  I enjoyed  totally immersing myself in the local culture.  Nevertheless, only you know your comfort level.   If uncomfortable going alone, retain a guide.  Another factor is how many trips you can take per year.  If only one or two, you must minimize the risk of not finding Ms. Right.

By the way, I always had a guide.  Who?  My guide was my RW date.

RW enjoy showing their city to a stranger who interests them.   If you are doing a WOVO trip, she will meet you at the airport.  She will tell you the neighborhood where you should rent an apartment.  She knows the restaurants and the schedule for shows and concerts and how best to but tickets.  She knows the hidden treasures that should not be missed.  She will assist you in buying the stuff you need such as breakfast food.
 
She is a "friend with benefits," something I hope that Eduard is not providing personally. Your RW guide probably will lead you to the apartment at night, operate the four bizarre keys to the door,  and wake you in the morning.
 
To find such a guide and to motivate her, you must spend a lot of time in Skype building a relationship where you are open and direct before you get on the plane. 
 
This concept also works with a WMVM trip but with some obvious complications. 
 
Even if you have positive feelings about a RW based on spending much time talking with her on the phone,  your feelings may quickly turn negative upon meeting her.   Thus you need an exit strategy and a backup plan.  In fact, a RW may not even show up.   It happened to me once as part of a WMVM trip. Another time the RW I had high hopes for turned out to be the Devil's Seed.
 

It comes down to language. Doesn't it for everybody?

English fluency is best.  However, the most fantastic woman I ever met spoke almost no English.  We had a great time.  Six years later, we have an exclusive relationship.

[Chicagoguy]

My wife spoke no English. It will be 3 wonderful years this April.
Not easy but worth it - for us at least.

[magnetic_fields]

We are not against the service that Eduard provides.  There is the issue of cost; however, if you see sufficient value in Ed's services, great!   What you miss is some of the joy of the venture.  The cold letter writing was fun IMO.  I enjoyed  totally immersing myself in the local culture.  Nevertheless, only you know your comfort level.   If uncomfortable going alone, retain a guide.  Another factor is how many trips you can take per year.  If only one or two, you must minimize the risk of not finding Ms. Right.

By the way, I always had a guide.  Who?  My guide was my RW date.

RW enjoy showing their city to a stranger who interests them.   If you are doing a WOVO trip, she will meet you at the airport.  She will tell you the neighborhood where you should rent an apartment.  She knows the restaurants and the schedule for shows and concerts and how best to but tickets.  She knows the hidden treasures that should not be missed.  She will assist you in buying the stuff you need such as breakfast food.
 
She is a "friend with benefits," something I hope that Eduard is not providing personally. Your RW guide probably will lead you to the apartment at night, operate the four bizarre keys to the door,  and wake you in the morning.
 
To find such a guide and to motivate her, you must spend a lot of time in Skype building a relationship where you are open and direct before you get on the plane. 
 
This concept also works with a WMVM trip but with some obvious complications. 
 
Even if you have positive feelings about a RW based on spending much time talking with her on the phone,  your feelings may quickly turn negative upon meeting her.   Thus you need an exit strategy and a backup plan.  In fact, a RW may not even show up.   It happened to me once as part of a WMVM trip. Another time the RW I had high hopes for turned out to be the Devil's Seed.
 
English fluency is best.  However, the most fantastic woman I ever met spoke almost no English.  We had a great time.  Six years later, we have an exclusive relationship.

You just described my 2011 september trip. We spoke for about 6 months on Skype before I went to visit. Once I reached Moscow she took me everywhere by subway or bus and showed me the sites. She also let me stay at her apartment rather than my hotel. But!!! I feel I got very lucky. Ed's service is not 100% but it will give me some security and peace of mind.

[Faux Pas]

Ok I will be specific. I went to Moscow in september 2011. The girl I met spoke perfect English. But I was lucky that she did. When I met her online back in February on singles.ru she was the only one I could have meaningful communication with because all the other women spoke Russian and google translate is not enough. I also did not have hours a day to keep sending letters to random girls hoping they would reply back.

I don't follow the risk factor here. Listen, no matter whether she speaks English or not, at some point you have to develop the rapport and relationship. You doing that early legwork will often help you identify who "you" find interesting/exciting/sexy even with a language barrier. Personally, after much hit and miss, I focused only to English capable women. I understand the language potholes but even those can help "you" understand a woman.

Now working with a guy like Ed I can reach out to 10 times more women and not have any obstacles in language. It's that simple. Because in the end isn't dating a numbers game. You have to meet several people before you can decide who you like.

Anyway I went to Russia alone Without an interpreter or a guide. I'm just saying I see the value of Ed's service.

And for the record I don't need a guide in San Francisco because I speak English. It comes down to language. Doesn't it for everybody?

I don't have any problem with Ed, Jack or any other service that helps men and women come together. This isn't a "you wid'us or agin'us" confrontation here. I'm just pointing out to you that it isn't as risky or difficult as you seem to believe. I know because 1000's of men including myself have done it.

If you wish to go that route of wingman, Guy Friday, agency tours then please, have at it. It's just your logic and reasoning is quite skewed. For some it is a numbers game for others, not so much. There's great guys that have made dozens of trips and come up empty and total ass hats that hit a grand slam in one trip. There's no substitute for the one on one "boy meets girl" aspect much the same as the local women you meet. FWIW

[GQBlues]

.... This concept also works with a WMVM trip but with some obvious complications. ....

Hhhhmmm, not trying to be coy but I just can't understand this at all Gator. Depending of course on the man, I believe WMVM is the best way to go, now more than ever, considering the state of these affairs today.

[Gator]

Hhhhmmm, not trying to be coy but I just can't understand this at all Gator.

WMVM women make pleasant guides, yet they know the score about WMVM.  This raises a couple of issues.  First, there are always some delicate moments which are still awkward even if finessed.   Second, RW hesitate about going "all in"  with a WMVM man.   WOVO women are "all in" before you get on the plane. 
 

Depending of course on the man, I believe WMVM is the best way to go, now more than ever, considering the state of these affairs today.

I would have agreed with you before Skype.  With Skype I did only VO.  Skype  enabled me to get to know as much if not more than  I could learn in a couple of "tea and tort" dates.  If the VO trip struck out, I had  the luxury of time to take another trip soon after returning home. 
 
The major concern with a WOVO trip is still the same - don't build up the woman too much in your mind before you meet her.  If you do, you may be blind to something you need to see and judge. 

[GQBlues]

WMVM women make pleasant guides, yet they know the score about WMVM.  This raises a couple of issues.  First, there are always some delicate moments which are still awkward even if finessed.

I agree. But those moments were actually fun in a very strange exciting way...
 

...Second, RW hesitate about going "all in"  with a WMVM man.   WOVO women are "all in" before you get on the plane. 

'All in', as in the desire to be intimate, or the desire to be emotionally involved with the man?

[magnetic_fields]

I don't follow the risk factor here. Listen, no matter whether she speaks English or not, at some point you have to develop the rapport and relationship. You doing that early legwork will often help you identify who "you" find interesting/exciting/sexy even with a language barrier. Personally, after much hit and miss, I focused only to English capable women. I understand the language potholes but even those can help "you" understand a woman.

I don't have any problem with Ed, Jack or any other service that helps men and women come together. This isn't a "you wid'us or agin'us" confrontation here. I'm just pointing out to you that it isn't as risky or difficult as you seem to believe. I know because 1000's of men including myself have done it.

If you wish to go that route of wingman, Guy Friday, agency tours then please, have at it. It's just your logic and reasoning is quite skewed. For some it is a numbers game for others, not so much. There's great guys that have made dozens of trips and come up empty and total ass hats that hit a grand slam in one trip. There's no substitute for the one on one "boy meets girl" aspect much the same as the local women you meet. FWIW

Listen I can assure you that even with working with a service like Ed's a client still has to do the legwork. All Ed does is send me a pic and a username. That's it! Rest is up to me. I don't know why I have to reiterate this multiple times?

Ok you are right. One can totally do this by themselves. However after having taken my first Russian trip I want to go back with at least 4-5 different options and not have language as a barrier. What if you find a great profile of a girl but she will only open up to Russian speakers? Why limit your chances? That's my only point here.

In the end I still would prefer a fluent English speaker but it's hard to get everything you want. Right?

[Gator]

I agree. But those moments were actually fun in a very strange exciting way...
 
'All in', as in the desire to be intimate, or the desire to be emotionally involved with the man?

 
No "or",  just "and" and some commas ."All in" as "everything" including meeting friends, drinking vodka with papa, etc. 

[Faux Pas]

Listen I can assure you that even with working with a service like Ed's a client still has to do the legwork. All Ed does is send me a pic and a username. That's it! Rest is up to me. I don't know why I have to reiterate this multiple times?

If you're happy with it, I'm happier than a pig in shite  Gator mentioned earlier that that is part of the fun and excitement of the process and he's right. You don't see it that way, okay, fine. Pay someone to do it for you. I can't help but wander how many good women you might miss because you have a hired gun doing it for you. There is a bit of a "creepy" factor in it (IMO) that likely would turn some women off.

Ok you are right. One can totally do this by themselves. However after having taken my first Russian trip I want to go back with at least 4-5 different options and not have language as a barrier. What if you find a great profile of a girl but she will only open up to Russian speakers? Why limit your chances? That's my only point here.

In the end I still would prefer a fluent English speaker but it's hard to get everything you want. Right?

Limiting your chances for what exactly? A successful meeting that will result in another? An engagement? Or finding a women with whom you'd like to work on a relationship with? It would appear you've taken my comments as in trying to change your mind. I'm not, not at all. Just pointing out to you the flaw in your stated logic.

I don't personally buy into the idea that some RW will only open up to Russian speakers. That is a crock IMO, if you interest them, they will open up. They are as curious as you are. Don't forget, "boy meets girl" and "girl meets boy".  There is absolutely nothing stopping you from having 4-5 options with or without Ed. If you are in a rush and on a time line, Ed is probably a good investment. Either way it is a 50/50 chance you'll fail or succeed, isn't there?

If you only intro and meet fluent English speakers the chances are real good you'll get what you want. Something that should be pointed out to you is it doesn't take fluency to communicate. Keep in mind there is much more English ability than there is fluency. Most terps are not fluent.

[Chicagoguy]

WMVM women make pleasant guides, yet they know the score about WMVM.  This raises a couple of issues.  First, there are always some delicate moments which are still awkward even if finessed.   Second, RW hesitate about going "all in"  with a WMVM man.   WOVO women are "all in" before you get on the plane. 
 

I can understand the WOVO from a woman's perspective but consider this. Will she see only you. Man has spent several thousand $ to see only her but she might have another visitor next month.

[GQBlues]

No "or",  just "and" and some commas ."All in" as "everything" including meeting friends, drinking vodka with papa, etc.

So you're recommending to these men who haven't yet taken their first trip to skype away so they can be fully invested in a woman they haven't yet met in person...I see.
 
But what if this scenario happens...
 

..Even if you have positive feelings about a RW based on spending much time talking with her on the phone,  your feelings may quickly turn negative upon meeting her.   Thus you need an exit strategy and a backup plan....

...back-up plans as maybe another woman you've been skyping with on the side the entire time (who probably was also 'all in as in everything* with you) or someone from an agency's catalog?  So these men need to tell the woman he's WOVO, because it promotes sincerity, but not really?
 
I'm just a bit confused about what you're trying to say here..Right now because of Skype's existence, writing one, visiting one is the best way forward because the women will be 'all in'. They would even include their entire family to believe you're an honest to goodness bloke. But then make sure you carry a back-up plan (women's contact info) on your hip pocket all along because ....
 
 

The major concern with a WOVO trip is still the same - don't build up the woman too much in your mind before you meet her.  If you do, you may be blind to something you need to see and judge....

I'm having a tough time finding the line separating sincerity and deceit here. Get her to commit to you so she you can assure yourself she fully gives herself to you, or if you find you're not really into her in person you can at least assure yourself of a good city guide. Do these women at least get a bag of sunflower seeds in these situations?
 
 
I mean...these are the sophisticated, well-mannered (or whatever else you used to describe them) women you inferred to on another thread, yes?

[JR]

  WOVO women are "all in" before you get on the plane. 
 

and sometimes WOVO women are all "out" three minutes after you get off the plane...)))

[ML]

I can understand the WOVO from a woman's perspective but consider this. Will she see only you. Man has spent several thousand $ to see only her but she might have another visitor next month.

Another visitor next day!!

[Gator]

 
I'm having a tough time finding the line separating sincerity and deceit here.

Based on what a man and woman have learned from a long series of Skype conversations,  each of them have decided to meet each other and no other (during his week in the FSU).   They also have decided to spend together as much time as possible.  Each gives the other their undivided attention.   Neither is encumbered by a relationship with someone else.  Their fate now depends upon how they interact and relate in the time together.  Who knows what will happen?!   
 
Thus, it is not purposefully deceitful, nor is it mendacious.   

GQ, you made only one trip.  For you a WMVM trip is best.  Over many years I have made six trips to meet a FSU woman for the first time, three VM and three VO.  VO is best for me given Skype.     I am not you, and you are not me.  Okay?
 
Regarding the backup plan, it could be the telephone number of an agency or an interesting book to read or an intense exercise program.  It could include phone numbers of other women, yet given the situation few would have serious time for you.

Hopefully I will not take any more trips.   
 
 
A backup plan could be nothing more than the telephone number of an agency or an interesting book to read.   Or it could be the telephone numbers of other women (most of whom would have little time for you).   The backup plan is to continue the week as unromantic friends.  especially if they have

[Gator]

and sometimes WOVO women are all "out" three minutes after you get off the plane...)))

   The converse is also possible, i. e., you want to exit stage door left.   That is the risk one takes. 
 
Skype reduces the risk if you are able to get a woman to open up about everything.  And if she does not, I suggest another woman.   

[GQBlues]

...GQ, you made only one trip.

Technically, I made a total of 8 (maybe 9, IDROH). The first trip was strictly to give everyone a mutual opportunity to meet each other in person to find out if there'll be mutual reason for any of us to continue further in any type of relations after meeting (involved multiple women who all knew I was there meeting others). I made a total of 6 (7) trips to Russia. Once we decided to take the next step, I flew to Germany and Toronto by myself so I can introduce myself to her sisters already living abroad and spend some time with their families.
 

  For you a WMVM trip is best.  Over many years I have made six trips to meet a FSU woman for the first time, three VM and three VO.  VO is best for me given Skype.     I am not you, and you are not me.  Okay?

I'm not suggesting a WOVO v WMVM. I realize we are all different in the things we do. I've mentioned that upthread already. Nor am I deconstructing the WOVO approach. Many men had used this approach and are married today.
 
What I was trying to clarify with you was the message you were conveying upthread, and trying to apply that to the classification of ladies you previously said were your target of interest. They are Intelligent, sophisticated, well-mannered, etc...but never *desperate.* I believe you.
 
But if I was a newbie and read what you said upthread, I'd be one confused pup.
- WOVO is better because she'll likely be fully committed to you knowing you're coming only for her. But since you're the man, compliance is unnecessary.
- To be a sincere WOVO to your gal, you should spend a good amount of time skyping one another so you can both assure yourselves you're completely opened up to another and no stone is left unturned....but bring other ladies' contact info just in case.
 
That's the line I find a bit elusive, Gator. I've known many intelligent, sophisticated, well-mannered women of different nationalities and I doubt any of them would put up with that type of silliness. It's not only a sign of deceitfulness, it's a sure sign of a man's weakness. Conversely, the only women I'll assume who will subscribe to that type of men, are likely the desperate ones...do this belief differ with yours?

 

A backup plan could be nothing more than the telephone number of an agency *or an interesting book to read*.   Or it could be the telephone numbers of other women (most of whom would have little time for you).   The backup plan is to continue the week as unromantic friends....

Truthfully now...in the years you've been involved in this, how realistic is this?

[Gator]

GQ, you are too focused on the trees and not seeing the forest.  Plus you are misreading me (i. e., seeing trees that are not there).   You can skip my responses to your specific comments, yet they follow if interested.
 

- WOVO is better because she'll likely be fully committed to you knowing you're coming only for her. But since you're the man, compliance is unnecessary.

Your words, not mine.  Nor was it my policy.  So please retract in my case. 
 

but bring other ladies' contact info just in
case.

 
I also said that other women would likely have no time for you.
 
 

That's the line I find a bit elusive, Gator. I've known
many intelligent, sophisticated, well-mannered women of different nationalities.....

If paraphrasing me, you left out  the adjective "seasoned." 

and I doubt any of them would put up with that type of silliness.

 
How would they know unless the man showed his list, which would  indeed be silly. 

 It's not only a sign of deceitfulness, it's a sure sign of a man's weakness.

For your edification, I never had a backup list of women.  I certainly could retrieve it from my email contacts list.  Yet, I never needed to.  The meeting with the Devil's Seed was in Turkey on an all-inclusive charter - I was stuck there.   After I separated our two twin beds, I enhanced my archery skills, worked out three hours per day, tanned my skinny body (see below as this photo was taken then),  and read a book (to answer another of your questions).  I became ill (God is just) and the woman (a nurse) was attentive. 
BTW, I met the woman in Ukraine and had left some of my warmer clothes there.  I had reserved another week to spend with her, but immediately left for Dnepropetrovsk and Kharkov where some agencies introduced me to many fine women. 

Truthfully now...in the years you've been involved in this, how realistic is this?

It is all in the mind.  Learn to control your mind.   Patience can defeat hormonal impairment.  Plus I had no options.   

[GQBlues]

GQ, you are *too focused on the trees and not seeing the forest.  Plus you are misreading me (i. e., seeing trees that are not there).*   You can skip my responses to your specific comments, yet they follow if interested.....

FWIW, I disagree.
 
I stand by my reply #38 containing quoted statements made by you. There wasn't much deviation in those statements whether I read between the lines or taken them in context as written.
 
But no matter.
 

[Eduard]

Phil, with most RW having Skype on their computer all my clients move to Skype chats sooner or later rather than just writing letters to each other which I translate. This has been going on for around 2 years now and I noticed a pattern (particularly when they move to Skype too quickly, before having exchanged at least several deep, meaningful letters). The vast majority of women lose interest and stop responding after a couple of chats. There are several reasons for that:
1. too much misunderstanding and mistranslation (since many find their English skills not enough and use electronic translators
2. There are cultural differences and many WM just don't know how to talk to RW, what's acceptable and what's not, what will trigger a positive response and what not to say to avoid triggering a negative reaction. It's almost like playing a musical instrument - you have to stay in key, push the right keys (buttons) and not miss the accidentals. When they write letters and have me translate them I at least have a chance to warn them if something will not sit well with a RW and I coach them on how to say the same thing but in a form that will trigger a positive response. Being bilingual and knowing both cultures allows me to coach my guys to achieve success where in many cases there would be a failure because of cultural differences and the language barrier.
3. Even if a RW possesses reasonably good English skills chatting with a foreigner in a foreign language requires quite a bit of effort and can be draining (particularly if she just got home from work, tired from a long, tough day and really just wanted to relax a little. Try to talk to some one in a foreign (for you) language for 30 minutes (providing you are not fluent in it) and you'll see how tired you will be! What I found was that most women just don't have enough energy/stamina/desire to deal with this because they have no vested interest or feelings for a guy at this point and it's a lot easier to chat with local RM. However this changes drastically once a woman develops a real interest (not just the curiosity that she has at the very beginning) in a WM. This can take 3 or 4 weeks of exchanging meaningful letters. I noticed that only at that point most women start opening up and become vested in a relationship (although on line relationship at this point) and it's OK to move to Skype, providing they continue exchanging long, meaningful letters that absolutely must be translated for a 100% language barrier free communication. The first 2 to 4 weeks are crucial to make a woman like you, develop an interest in you and open up to you. It is my opinion that you will have a 90% better success rate with RW if you make this initial "getting to know each other" period as easy and as effortless for them as possible. Don't make them write to you in English and write to them in Russian. Understand cultural differences and try not to put your foot in your mouth too often.


My own clients tried it both ways on the same local Russian free dating sites. They try on their own for a few months then they come back to me and try again, but this time approaching women in Russian and having letters translated plus my relationship coaching, and the difference is tremendous. When they use my technique they quickly develop good connections with several women in a matter of just a couple of months.


Now for some men who just enjoy the "Process" of chasing and chatting with hundreds or thousands of RW (this may include you, Phil    ), keep doing what you are doing. However for the guys who don't have all this free time on their hands and their goal is to find their soulmate and start a family as quickly as possible and with the right woman, you might want to pay attention to my advice and start chatting with them in perfect Russian! You will see that the difference is staggering!

[magnetic_fields]

Now for some men who just enjoy the "Process" of chasing and chatting with hundreds or thousands of RW (this may include you, Phil    ), keep doing what you are doing. However for the guys who don't have all this free time on their hands and their goal is to find their soulmate and start a family as quickly as possible and with the right woman, you might want to pay attention to my advice and start chatting with them in perfect Russian! You will see that the difference is staggering!

What you said about it being exhausting for the women is 100% accurate. Anya (the girl I met in moscow) felt that when she spoke in English (and she was very fluent) she felt more "serious" and a little too formal. She was also exhausted at the end of our chats on skype from converting the languages in her head back and forth daily. Also a lot of things were misunderstood initially which could have been avoided had we both spoken in our native languages with a translator in between.  I am specifically talking about American slang which I tried to avoid but it's hard for it not to come out when one gets excited. 

[Eduard]

What you said about it being exhausting for the women is 100% accurate. Anya (the girl I met in moscow) felt that when she spoke in English (and she was very fluent) she felt more "serious" and a little too formal. She was also exhausted at the end of our chats on skype from converting the languages in her head back and forth daily. Also a lot of things were misunderstood initially which could have been avoided had we both spoken in our native languages with a translator in between.  I am specifically talking about American slang which I tried to avoid but it's hard for it not to come out when one gets excited.

and you say that Anya was fluent and getting exhausted by the end of a conversation. Imagine how tough it is for the women who's English skills are intermediate!

[Jack]

You know eduard I always felt this was the case and this is just enforces my feelings/thoughts even more.

My own clients tried it both ways on the same local Russian free dating sites. They try on their own for a few months then they come back to me and try again, but this time approaching women in Russian and having letters translated

My clients are walked through the process of how to get around a few of the Russian free dating sites. What to write, and not write, on their profile and I also help them with the wording of the all important introductory letter to each lady who interest's them.

These technique's have proven to be very successful as these men are meeting a lot of ladies from the Russian personal sites that they end up meeting in person.  Now of course one BIG difference in our respective clientele, I know there are many differences but one big difference is most my clients want to meet Ukraine/Russian ladies who can speak at least some English.  By doing this they do not need to have each and every message translated. These guy's like the independence of communicating freely, directly with each other, NO middleman having to translate, and these men are able to determine in a short time which ladies they may have a connection with.  Just so much easier for these men to feel themselves what is going on, true feelings, when they are able to communicate directly.