When does the game stop?

[IAmZon]

First off, I will admit ... my brain goes mushy when seduced by a RW / FSU woman.  I do not know if the fault is mine, or if the women I have met deserve all the credit?


What I do know is I must be careful.  I do not have this problem with American Women or Latin Women - it is only when a woman very intelligently communicates with me showing depth, and then adds a little exotic tease POOF!  There goes my better judgement.   


But, I am not stupid.   I have noticed that there is a BIG difference between RW that have been in the USA for several years (and are not poor), from students and women that do not live in first world countries.  Perhaps the distinction ought to be self evident?  Some women, regardless of nationality, are materialistic, career minded, or just plain spoiled.   But, then there are my two Russian friends that work for cir de sole.   When they learned that I had dated a Russian woman in the past, and that I would be interested in visiting Russia ... these well meaning men cautioned me greatly.  As if I was about to enter a ring with an opponent twice my size:)   They are both married to Russian women.  But, they said it would be very difficult for me to discern truth and sincerity in the Russian culture, without knowing the language. 


It is funny ... I have good friends that live in Colombia - a country similarly renowned for its beautiful women.   I have not been busy about wife hunting, but when I do enter relationships, my friends constantly advise me: Tim, if you want to find a good girl, go to the country.  City girls are all "interasadas" - out for some benefit.


I know it is impossible to make generalizations with accuracy.   But these warning are certainly grounded in truth.   I would love to her these points carried forward from a woman's perspective.

[Leelou]

I am not a woman but I will share my view anyway
 
 One of the thing about finding a suitable partner/wife in the FSU is stopping to believe those women are completely different just because of the place they grew up in.
 
 They do have slight and sometimes significant differences in the way they live their life according to their roots, but they still remain women at the end of the day. Before meeting my fiancée, I met several type of Russian ladies, many of them having different types of activities and backgrounds. They all corresponded to models I saw in the West too. I met some very greedy and materialistic ones, I met some heart of gold too.
 
 I think that more than the geographical situation, the family background matters more.
 My girl is very family-oriented and cares a lot about having good relationships with relatives. Still she lives in Moscow and works in economics... But I can see in her family from where those values come from.
 
 I doubt you can really spot something just by looking at if she is a city girl or not... and to be honest, I do not think FSU women are better than Western ones in absolute. But what I am sure about is that you improve your probabilities to find family-oriented women there because of cultural reasons. However, you just improve your chances, this doesn't mean there is a model or a formula that can assure to meet the good one. At least this is how I felt it during my period of research.
 
 I hope some Russian lady will now give you a better and more precise point of view

[Donna_Pedro]

: im, if you want to find a good girl, go to the country.  City girls are all "interasadas" - out for some benefit.
I know it is impossible to make generalizations with accuracy.   But these warning are certainly grounded in truth.   I would love to her these points carried forward from a woman's perspective.

If we are generalizing here, then my rationale would be as following - women from big cities have less reasons to use a man as a ticket to the first world. But in reality everybody is out for benefits.

[BdHvA]

Mister R,

It is an interesting post & challenge. I also doubt if where the woman comes from will make a difference in her character. She may very well have integrity and grown up in the center of Moscow or she might be from small village in the middle of the farm country of Ukraine. My guess and it is just that some women are wired to expect & to play the "dance". If you are game on than you have a chance at success. But is this a game?

As for women from the former Soviet Union do they change when they arrive in North America, yes they prefer to fit in and thrive, so they adapt. Very few women though change from being a female to being a male, it happens but that is a different subject (and operation).

Do you have a clear vision of the sort of women that can live with you as well as vice-versa?

[Eduard]

But, then there are my two Russian friends that work for cir de sole.   When they learned that I had dated a Russian woman in the past, and that I would be interested in visiting Russia ... these well meaning men cautioned me greatly.  As if I was about to enter a ring with an opponent twice my size:)   They are both married to Russian women.  But, they said it would be very difficult for me to discern truth and sincerity in the Russian culture, without knowing the language. 

Listen to your friends... I've been saying this on these fora for years now... you must understand her background, her values, her life outlook. If a woman is saying all the right things that you wanna hear it doesn't neccessarily mean that she is sincere. I've met many RW like that and they can be dangerous. They'll use you, chew you up and spit you out.
When you meet an AW and have a conversation with her you can at least know by the way she speaks whether she comes form a trailer park and never finished highschool, you can tell if she is "street" and has a hard, cold edge, or that she comes from a good family, has good education, is worldly, smart, kind, whether she has a good sense of humor, etc. How are you going to figure all this on your own in Russia if you don't speak fluent Russian and she speaks maybe 50 words of English? I've always said that some guys just get lucky and marry a good one by pure chance when they do this on their own. It's a 50/50 thing IMO

[Eduard]

I am not a woman but I will share my view anyway
 
 One of the thing about finding a suitable partner/wife in the FSU is stopping to believe those women are completely different just because of the place they grew up in.
 
 They do have slight and sometimes significant differences in the way they live their life according to their roots, but they still remain women at the end of the day. Before meeting my fiancée, I met several type of Russian ladies, many of them having different types of activities and backgrounds. They all corresponded to models I saw in the West too. I met some very greedy and materialistic ones, I met some heart of gold too.
 
 I think that more than the geographical situation, the family background matters more.
 My girl is very family-oriented and cares a lot about having good relationships with relatives. Still she lives in Moscow and works in economics... But I can see in her family from where those values come from.
 
 I doubt you can really spot something just by looking at if she is a city girl or not... and to be honest, I do not think FSU women are better than Western ones in absolute. But what I am sure about is that you improve your probabilities to find family-oriented women there because of cultural reasons. However, you just improve your chances, this doesn't mean there is a model or a formula that can assure to meet the good one. At least this is how I felt it during my period of research.
 
 I hope some Russian lady will now give you a better and more precise point of view

All excellent points, Leelou!

[Eduard]

If we are generalizing here, then my rationale would be as following - women from big cities have less reasons to use a man as a ticket to the first world. But in reality everybody is out for benefits.

I think it all depends on each individual person. You can meet a woman with a heart of gold In a big city or in a small village and vise versa. Even within the same family you can have two siblings who are completely opposite of each other. One can have a heart of an angel, the other one pure evil. I wonder if this is how "The evil twin" came about?

[SMS60]

The games stop when you as a man decide they stop.

Of course, some men and women play games in relationships. But this is not about the women. They are who they are. This is about you looking in the mirror and telling yourself your in control of what happens in your dating life.

Everybody likes to point the finger at the opposite person when things don't go the way they planned. Until people start looking within there will always be problems.

Most forums like these are missing the most important topics. The ones which deal with the way a man carries himself. The way he looks at himself. The way he thinks about himself. Once he has this mastered the games go away. He sees everything with confidence.

[Eduard]

good points, SMS60. Yes, confidence is very important. Equally important is to recognise that while confidence is usually a good thing, cockiness is not. Too many men confuse the two.

[SMS60]

Too many men confuse the two.

Very true.

Eduard, I have read many of your post and one topic you bring up is something I have always thought about.

Maybe you could start a new thread on this topic. You see all these drop dead gorgeous women who are single and  wonder why.  I have a good idea why and maybe why so many men run into trouble. Why haven't RM took these women as wife's? Do they see something the AM does not?

[Doll]

  .  But, they said it would be very difficult for me to discern truth and sincerity in the Russian culture, without knowing the language. 


 
 

Language is not enough- you need to be "one of them", same as it took me years to start understanding what Americans really mean by saying this or that.
In other words, I  think you will probably never understand the other nation person's intentions.

[Eduard]

Language is not enough- you need to be "one of them", same as I took me years to start understanding what Americans really mean by saying this or that.
In other words, I don't think you will probably never understand the other nation person's intentions.

I wouldn't say "never", but it would take at least good 15-20 years of completely immersing into the culture the way I did in the USA.

[Eduard]

Very true.

Eduard, I have read many of your post and one topic you bring up is something I have always thought about.

Maybe you could start a new thread on this topic. You see all these drop dead gorgeous women who are single and  wonder why.  I have a good idea why and maybe why so many men run into trouble. Why haven't RM took these women as wife's? Do they see something the AM does not?

We can't generalise here as each case is going to be different. If a woman is truly a "dead gorgeous" and single there may be several reasons for that, that I can think of off hand:
1. She maybe spoilled by men's attention since her early years and set her standarts too high (i.e. the man must be very handsome, very tall, very well educated, very rich, very suave, very sexy and off course she must feel great chemistry with him)


2. She might have made some bad choices in men, in life before and she is extremely cautious in her choice of men. She is not going to jump into a relationship very easy


3. She goes for the wrong type of guy every time and gets dumped the minute she lets herself fall for him. And when nice guys fall for her she toys with their feelings and dumps them (my wife has a beautiful friend who fits this description.


4. She had a rough childhood and carries emotional scars that inhibit her from getting in a good relationship


5. she has serious character dysfunction, psychological or even psychiatric disorder or a combination of the above.


In the Soviet time this was a popular philosophy: Never hope for the best, always think that the outcome will be negative so then you won't be disappointed at the end when the outcome does turn out to be negative. A very dysfunctional way of thinking IMO but it was and still is the norm in a large number of FSU families. Things like this is good to find out before getting in a relationship with a woman...

[Doll]

I wouldn't say "never", but it would take at least good 15-20 years of completely immersing into the culture the way I did in the USA.

You're right- it is not "never" but surely to marry RW and really understand her will seem like "never"
Same is for lets say any Russian man who marries AW.
It is just another culture, so I wouldn't recommend any international marriages at all (or you bare the "misunderstandting") Yes, I am married to AM))))
One more time- it is NOT about Russsians or Germans, it is about another culture.

[Doll]

 
 
In the Soviet time this was a popular philosophy: Never hope for the best, always think that the outcome will be negative so then you won't be disappointed at the end when the outcome does turn out to be negative. A very dysfunctional way of thinking IMO but it was and still is the norm in a large number of FSU families. Things like this is good to find out before getting in a relationship with a woman...

A little bit different- hope for the better, but be prepared for the worse.

[Eduard]

A little bit different- hope for the better, but be prepared for the worse.

I wish it was like that, I see nothing wrong with this philosophy. But many people, particularly older generation think exactly the way I described it. Your example sounds optimistic, I'm talking about a really pessimistic outlook that a number of FSU people have.

[Doll]

Forgot to comment on "country vs city girls"- to be superior in front of a country girl is times easier. Again, regardless the nation (culture).
Country people know less, they have less experience. That's all.

[Doll]

I wish it was like that, I see nothing wrong with this philosophy. But many people, particularly older generation think exactly the way I described it. Your example sounds optimistic, I'm talking about a really pessimistic outlook that a number of FSU people have.

Ok, anyway, it depends on "this very" girl.
Young generation is different now, Ed.

[ML]

In the Soviet time this was a popular philosophy: Never hope for the best, always think that the outcome will be negative so then you won't be disappointed at the end when the outcome does turn out to be negative. A very dysfunctional way of thinking IMO but it was and still is the norm in a large number of FSU families. Things like this is good to find out before getting in a relationship with a woman...

I have noticed this  quite a bit with  the FSU folks I have dealt with.

[ML]

Forgot to comment on "country vs city girls"- to be superior ib front of a country girl is times easier.

Doll, this is a bit garbled, some typos I think.  Could  you clarify, thanks.

[ML]

Language is not enough- you need to be "one of them", same as it took me years to start understanding what Americans really mean by saying this or that.
In other words, I  think you will probably never understand the other nation person's intentions.

I haven't noticed this.  Haven't really  had much problem in understanding what the  women I have been with really mean, and them me.

[JR]

rivardco: The difference is not in the women: the difference is in you.....

[Eduard]

Ok, anyway, it depends on "this very" girl.
Young generation is different now, Ed.

it's not just my generation, Doll, I've noticed this way of thinking in some younger people as well. I think this gets passed from generation to generation until some one has enough forsight to stop the cycle.

[Eduard]

I haven't noticed this.  Haven't really  had much problem in understanding what the  women I have been with really mean, and them me.

on a basic level sure it's not hard to understand, on a deeper level I agree with Doll, you have to be one of them to truly understand. You wouldn't know when you misunderstand something. The first few years in the USA my mom's English was quite limited even though she took it at the university. When she talked to somebody she often thought that she understood them. But when she explained to me in Russian what she understood I could see that she completely misenterpreted what was said to her, good thing I was there with her to hear the conversation and point this out to her. Otherwise how would she know that she misunderstood? Lots of times she understood things a 180 degrees opposite of what she was told.

[Doll]

it's not just my generation, Doll, I've noticed this way of thinking in some younger people as well. I think this gets passed from generation to generation until some one has enough forsight to stop the cycle.

Ok, ok, how is it linked to a pretty single girl?