When does the game stop?

[JR]

My ex understood perfectly clear when she didn't want to......

[JR]

Hope it was not raining!

It was and he didn't have an umbrella ((((

[Doll]

 
I am referring to the case where the Western and FSU person may not really understand what the other persons intentions and long term desires are.  That is to say, we may generally  be able to discern these things from interacting with persons of our own culture, but not be able to discern these thing from interacting with persons of another culture.

In other words, a person from a different culture may be able to more easily 'hide' true feelings and true intentions from others in the second culture.

I readily admit this might be true.

yes, this is what Ed and I meant. Your girl looks at it in the situation of "through emails or skype" communication, though true intentions if you think of them "wider", the reactions on events and your beavior are hard to recognize.
 
Misha says that it is easy-" just ask the women". Ha-ha, go ahead, ask RW and then understand what she really feels and thinks. Good luck on it.
 
(Though I had same problem with Americans till I lived here long enough to start being able to "translate from English into English".

[Misha]

Doll, RW are no harder or no easier to understand than any other women, but Russians do have this need to believe in the unfathomable Russian Soul 

[ML]

Perhaps from reading too much  of Gogol.

[jeff9556]

Misha says that it is easy-" just ask the women". Ha-ha, go ahead, ask RW and then understand what she really feels and thinks. Good luck on it.

Men will tell you this is a problem not limited to race or region 

[mies]

Listen to your friends... I've been saying this on these fora for years now... you must understand her background, her values, her life outlook. If a woman is saying all the right things that you wanna hear it doesn't neccessarily mean that she is sincere. I've met many RW like that and they can be dangerous. They'll use you, chew you up and spit you out.
When you meet an AW and have a conversation with her you can at least know by the way she speaks whether she comes form a trailer park and never finished highschool, you can tell if she is "street" and has a hard, cold edge, or that she comes from a good family, has good education, is worldly, smart, kind, whether she has a good sense of humor, etc. How are you going to figure all this on your own in Russia if you don't speak fluent Russian and she speaks maybe 50 words of English? I've always said that some guys just get lucky and marry a good one by pure chance when they do this on their own. It's a 50/50 thing IMO

in my understanding, the girls from good American families, with good education, worldly, smart, etc etc etc, have high standard for their men and prospective husbands too, in other words, they are "spoiled" by their good upbringing. What OP is looking for is the girl of poor origin (i.e. "not spoiled") and at the same time with good education (people who are poor but  striving to get good education usually are very goal-oriented, and over-achievers - but OP doesn't want that, he wants a person to be humble and timid, but have high achievements) and on top of that - selfless and with good proper values. In essence, he is looking for old-style Russian "intelligentsia" - those who were destroyed by communist regimen and to some extent exist in old and large cities. But he doesn't want to look into large cities. And also women of that sort, as said previously, want to see equal in their man, and not to be a "smart and entertaining toy" for someone who isn't capable to stimulate them intellectually, culturally, and in all other important (for them) aspects.
In my opinion, the characteristics OP listed are mutually exclusive.
An additional advise: Rivardco, please, please, don't be fooled by "simple and homely girl from the village" tales. People from villages, especially FSU villages, unlike people from big cities, are simple indeed, and much much more resilient in many different ways - just because they have to work so hard, every day of their life, to achieve at least something. Village woman will "twist/bend you into ram's horn" (a Russian saying)
to illustrate how this will look, please check this image:

Mind it, that village simple women do not have those stupid ideas about dieting, they do physical labor from early years, and overall are very healthy.. and strong. So she can also bend you in any shape literally, if this will be needed.
To further assist you with your decision, I would like to offer one more Russian saying and an illustration for it:

"The cheese is free only in the mousetrap" or in American version: "There is no such thing as a free lunch."
and one more: "saving a cent will spend your dollar."

In slavic part of USSR people like you are described as "еще один любитель халявы" and generally not very well perceived by any woman. So if you will see woman sharing your ideas eagerly and agreeing with everything you say (along the lines you shared in the original post) or wish for - you got your red flag right there.

[Doll]

Men will tell you this is a problem not limited to race or region 

yes, except the thread is about RW.

[Eduard]

pure love ... in a realistic, partnership, honest, non-fantasy kinda way, YES.  Otherwise, why go?!?!?  There are tons of bodies for physical needs that are very acceptable in this hemisphere.


Excellent points, Gator.   Time and observation with family and friends ought to be a 90% solution.

Tim, unless you look 20 years older and gained a lot of weight in the last couple of years since I last saw you, you are a very good looking guy. So getting a very attractive, intelligent Russian woman in her late 20s or early 30s to truly fall in love with you shouldn't be any problem for you providing you say the right things, do the right things and have no issues communicating. You should start now since spring is the best time for this and many Russian women are open to and hoping to find love at this time of the year. Lots of luck and keep me in mind if you need a DJ who can spin American, Russian and Latin music at your wedding 

[mies]

You see all these drop dead gorgeous women who are single and  wonder why.  I have a good idea why and maybe why so many men run into trouble. Why haven't RM took these women as wife's? Do they see something the AM does not?

because women are not pair of shoes, silly you. You cannot take them for a wife if they don't want to marry you. None of the men who were willing to marry these drop dead gorgeous women met women's criteria for the "qualified candidate." 

[Eduard]

in my understanding, the girls from good American families, with good education, worldly, smart, etc etc etc, have high standard for their men and prospective husbands too, in other words, they are "spoiled" by their good upbringing. What OP is looking for is the girl of poor origin (i.e. "not spoiled") and at the same time with good education (people who are poor but  striving to get good education usually are very goal-oriented, and over-achievers - but OP doesn't want that, he wants a person to be humble and timid, but have high achievements) and on top of that - selfless and with good proper values. In essence, he is looking for old-style Russian "intelligentsia" - those who were destroyed by communist regimen and to some extent exist in old and large cities. But he doesn't want to look into large cities. And also women of that sort, as said previously, want to see equal in their man, and not to be a "smart and entertaining toy" for someone who isn't capable to stimulate them intellectually, culturally, and in all other important (for them) aspects.
In my opinion, the characteristics OP listed are mutually exclusive.
An additional advise: Rivardco, please, please, don't be fooled by "simple and homely girl from the village" tales. People from villages, especially FSU villages, unlike people from big cities, are simple indeed, and much much more resilient in many different ways - just because they have to work so hard, every day of their life, to achieve at least something. Village woman will "twist/bend you into ram's horn" (a Russian saying)
to illustrate how this will look, please check this image:

Mind it, that village simple women do not have those stupid ideas about dieting, they do physical labor from early years, and overall are very healthy.. and strong. So she can also bend you in any shape literally, if this will be needed.
To further assist you with your decision, I would like to offer one more Russian saying and an illustration for it:

"The cheese is free only in the mousetrap" or in American version: "There is no such thing as a free lunch."
and one more: "saving a cent will spend your dollar."

In slavic part of USSR people like you are described as "еще один любитель халявы" and generally not very well perceived by any woman. So if you will see woman sharing your ideas eagerly and agreeing with everything you say (along the lines you shared in the original post) or wish for - you got your red flag right there.

LOL, nice post!

[mies]

Rivardco, want the truth? They all know why WM hunt for wives in FSU, they all (you too) play the game "Here's the Deal", so come on, guys, you're not looking for "pure" love, are you?
So, the single woman with two kids is no more suspicious then a single AM searching in Russia. This includes (in a way) RM who live in the USA.

Oh, come on Doll, but of course they are!!!  Big and pure love:

[Doll]

 Mies, you're killing the last "American hope"

[ghost of moon goddess]

Men will tell you this is a problem not limited to race or region 

A friend of mine once said to me it is never difficult for her to open up to her boyfriend. She always tells him her true emotions and feelings, because he never "rationalizes" them, which makes her believe he always understands her 

[mies]

Mies, you're killing the last "American hope"

Sorry, Doll!! I didn't know Rivardco is the last "American hope"! 

[Doll]

bend you into ram's horn

[Doll]

So, the Russian part said its word.
Totally agree with " ram's horn" and "free cheese"
 

[Doll]

But, I am not stupid.   I have noticed that there is a BIG difference between RW that have been in the USA for several years (and are not poor), from students and women that do not live in first world countries.  Perhaps the distinction ought to be self evident?

It is quoted from the OP.
In this regard, I have a question- what is it that is "self evident"?
It is a serious question.
How are RW who live here different from those in Russia?

[TheTraveler]

You're right- it is not "never" but surely to marry RW and really understand her will seem like "never"

Men are much simpler animals.
 
My wife had me completely figured out in a matter of minutes.
 

[Gator]

In other words, a person from a different culture may be able to more easily 'hide' true feelings and true intentions from others in the second culture.

I readily admit this might be true.

RW should be good poker players given their demeanor. 

I will readily admit that many RW are difficult to read at first unless they are irritated.  They do not hide that mood well.

So why not ask them when you question their motives? 

Misha says that it is easy-" just ask the women". Ha-ha, go ahead, ask RW and then understand what she really feels and thinks. Good luck on it.
 

Women in general are not as direct as men.  And I imagine RW are worse. 

In looking back I probably subconsciously gravitated towards RW who seemed honest and trustworthy.  Life is too short to spend it with the other kind of woman.

While a man may demand forthrightness, he should not expect it as a "given" when first dating a RW.   Nevertheless, a solid relationship will have complete trust in both directions.  If trust is missing,  I don't know what kind of relationship it is, but it is not true love.   Without trust, there will be no respect.  In fact, one or both partners may be very jealous, a horrible state that will only become worse.

[Gator]

A friend of mine once said to me it is never difficult for her to open up to her boyfriend. She always tells him her true emotions and feelings, because he never "rationalizes" them, which makes her believe he always understands her 

A good example of mutual trust and respect.

[Gator]

In slavic part of USSR people like you are described as "еще один любитель халявы" and generally not very well perceived by any woman. So if you will see woman sharing your ideas eagerly and agreeing with everything you say (along the lines you shared in the original post) or wish for - you got your red flag right there.

Excellent advice for Rivardco.  From the years that I have known him at RWD, he likes to talk about vague concepts, as if emotions and girl:boy interactions can be explained definitively in one sentence with a catchy phrase. 

When you meet him, he is a different person, and he changes his name to Tim.    .  Tim is more confident than Rivardco.  Tim likes women and women like him.  Of note, I have seen RW study him from across the room and say without any evidence those specail yet damning words, "There is something wrong with him."    [Tim,  forgive me, I was overserved at the club today. ]

Maybe he is ready to settle down, especially if a good woman enters his life.   It happens, especially if one is open to the concept.  If Tim does not settle down within the next few years,  he will qualify for the male equivalent of spinster.   

[Jack]

  If Tim does not settle down within the next few years,  he will qualify for the male equivalent of spinster.   

I'm think your correct Gator.  Although I have not met Tim in person I have spent hours talking to him over the decade.  With Tim I get the feeling it has something to do what what direction the wind is blowing on a particular day.

I have seen a very recent photo of Tim, the man will have his choice of so many fine ladies it will make even my head spin, but I think he has a two year window where he will have these choices.

[Eduard]

I think one should realise that the advice and certain concepts and attitudes provided here by our lovely resident FSU ladies may be (and in my opinion is) a lot more cynical than an average woman my clients and I meet. I think it is due to their exposure to the MOB scene. Women who have never looked for a foreigner or dated one are a lot less cynical and more open to real love and relationship than described here in my experience.

[Jack]

eduard as some one who has been using Russian personal sites longer than most here, including you, I would have to say 100% for sure that many woman NOT part of the MOB scene, many women on Russian free personal sites like mamba, are also very cynical.