When does the game stop?

[Misha]

Ed, so why do these "normal" men who live in the country with huge female population go to FSU?
I understand why Russians who live here do it, but not born Americans.

Invariably to find a younger and/or more attractive willing to marry them.

[Eduard]

Ed, so why do these "normal" men who live in the country with huge female population go to FSU?
I understand why Russians who live here do it, but not born Americans.

Huge female population?!?! LOL For the same reason I went back to Russia to find my wife! I suspect for the same reason that Tim spent the last 3 years in South America... This varies to a degree in different areas/cities in the USA but I hear a very similar account of dating from men who live in many different cities in the USA and Canada.


I'll try to explain. bare in mind that I was married to an AW and spent 15 years with her, I speak fluent English, so I could date either AW or RW, at the time I was single I was 43-44, attractive, in good shape (I worked out every day, played tennis, took marshall arts and played beach volleyball) owned my house (no mortgage) even had a great Jacuzzi perfect for partying with the girls... but the girls never came!  [size=78%] I'm a social guy and have no problem starting a conversation with women, I was DJing at the time so was in front of many people often, MCing parties, etc. Now you would think a guy like that shouldn't have a problem meeting women, particularly if he is looking for LTR, marriage and family. In the FSU I would have been having a ball! The time of my life! Probably would have so many beautiful women that I wouldn't be able to stop and settle down with just one (how are you doing,Chivo? ;-).[/size]
However not the case here, in Sarasota/Bradenton, FL area where I live. Here it exactly like FSU but a 180 degrees in reverse when it comes to dating dynamics. A single, reasonably attractive woman can be a player and have any guy she wants. It is pathetic here for men. There are a lot of retirees in this area so many old people. There are some younger people but mostly married couples. Imagine this - you go to a night club and there will be about a 100 guys there and 10-15 women! And most of these women are there with a date or a husband. The only women usually available for a "pick up" in the bars here are in their 50s. When on a rare occasion there is an attractive woman out she will get approached by a ton of men and she has so many options that your chances are next to nothing. I went out with one relatively attractive girl a couple of times, but it didn't go anywhere... I later found out from a mutual acquaintance (a female) that she had 3 guys she was dating at the same time, each guy lived in a nearby city. Yes, pretty girls have too many options of single men here.


I also had ads on yahoo personals and match.com. I contacted hundreds of women but only a few responded and in 2 years I went out maybe with about 4 of them. I wasn't attracted at all to any of them.
The bottom line: The only women who were willing to chat and to date me were unattractive and overweight to obese, or they were much older - late 40s to early 50s. Any single women in my age range (24 to 35) who were reasonably attractive had a serious entitlement attitude probably because they had so many options.


Two women did get me excited for a few minutes. I met one at a religious science church (yes, I tried religious institutions of different kinds as well). She was reasonably attractive, single (with a child) in her early 30s and agreed to go out with me. On the day of the date she told me that she wanted me to meet some of her friends... so she took me to an Amway meeting!!!  After the meeting she had to go... LOL, I should have seen that one coming!
The other girl was a hooters waitress where I had lunch with a few friends of mine. A very pretty Hispanic girl who as I found out on our "date" was also a mortgage broker and she wanted to sell me a mortgage. 


I did a little experiment - placed a female ad on one of the dating sites just to see what kind of response a cute 27 yo girl would get from men. By the time I finished uploading the photos there were 30 messages in my mail box, by the end of that first day there was almost 500 messages from guys from all over Tampa Bay are and some other cities in FL. It was unbelievable!!! And many guys were nice, good looking and obviously had serious intentions. Sure there were a few idiots too but can you imagine how many choices a cute girl has here? By the end of the week I had more than a 1000 responces...


I tried chatting with women from other areas of the USA and had a little better rate of response from reasonably attractive women in places like TX, NY and MI. But the problem with that was that they all had their career and wouldn't consider moving to FL. Meanwhile I definitely didn't want to leave this area because I adore the lifestyle here.


When I travelled to Russia for the first time since I immigrated to the US,I was able to meet 4 women a day (instead of 4 in 2 years) and these Russian women were beautiful, slim,  and no feministic/entitlement attitude either! And they were willing to date and get In a relationship with me. I mean it was like day and night! What an amazing difference! Here in Florida it's easy for a man to start getting self esteem issues because even if you are reasonably attractive the only women that are available to date are either obese or very unattractive. Now if a man has that "gladiator" look, very tall, really pumped and very handsome, sure he'll have young girls all over him and even some married women wouldn't be opposed to "playing" with him. But if you are a bit more average looking,have body hair or God forbid facial hair - you are pretty much out of luck. Going to Russia was like a breath of fresh air. What a difference, you start feeling like you are alive again. Women stared in my eyes, obviously flirted, sometimes asked questions just to start a conversation, what an amazing difference!
After experiencing that and coming back to Florida I realised that I didn't want any more frustration in my life trying to find a decent looking, nice, family oriented woman here, where I live and decided that I would find my wife in the FSU.


It was very easy to connect with many girls in Russia, I talked to lots and found my wife in about 3 months.

[Doll]

Here is a nice story about international dating games:
http://www.novayasamara.ru/content/%D0%B7%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%BD-%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE-%D1%81%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B4%D1%86%D0%B0

everyone who reads RUssian or can use a translator - enjoy 

Love it! Thanks!

[Doll]

Thank you, Ed , for your story. You have a point.

[chivo]

Huge female population?!?! LOL For the same reason I went back to Russia to find my wife! I suspect for the same reason that Tim spent the last 3 years in South America... This varies to a degree in different areas/cities in the USA but I hear a very similar account of dating from men who live in many different cities in the USA and Canada.

Ed, it is someimes hard to explain to RW living in the West, especially in America, how things can be so difficult.
 
They (the RW) will tell you how great AW are, how intelligent, beautiful, interesting, etc. they are. It must be you, the man.
 
One huge difference; they don't have to date them. Different prespectives is all.
 
P.S. I'm doing fine thank you very much. 

[Muzh]

 

[Eduard]

I do agree to the OP, who says that RW who already live in this country are very different from those who don't. They ARE different because they at some point understood why and how AM want the "traditional wife".
 For this very reason, the basic advises to RW who are marrying AM are a) try to get to know the man before you come here b) get the job as soon as possible to not depend of the men c) think twice before you have kids with your husband,etc.
 Just at the moment there are threads on the Russian forum like
http://www.russian-fiancee.com/rus/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=80248
or this
http://www.russian-fiancee.com/rus/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=80093
and many others.

You only confirm my feelings with this post. Only read the first link and this RW married a AM with Bipolar disorder. What do you expect? A happy marriage? This is exactly why I keep warning people that they need to truly understand who they are marrying. It is extremely important for both the man and the woman to get to know each other without any language barrier. If she knows "some English" it's not gonna help and the people are simply gambling with their life.
I also think that you are not an objective person и все видите со своей колокольни... "Traditional wife" in most men's understanding is a woman who puts her family first, before her career and who's desire to get married and have a family has a very high priority. Are there any women like that in America? Off course! The things is that normally they are married!!! The women who are single and playing the field and getting married and having kids is low on their priority list. This is where the problem is! AM who are looking for a RW with "traditional values" are not looking for something out of the ordinary. All they want is to find is a reasonably attractive woman who wants to get married and have kids. Is this so wrong?


I think that your point of view is cynical because you are involved in the MOB scene. You look at things differently from many other women. However I agree with you that there are men who are idiots both here, in the US and in Russia/Ukraine. I think that BECAUSE of the language barrier a number of people marry the wrong person for them, hence there are bad situations like the one you provided links for. A couple of members here always try to dismiss my warnings as a "sales tactic" but like you, I see too many misunderstandings because of a different language and culture every day and see how dangerous it is for people from 2 different cultures to go into marriage without even a basic understanding of who each other is. Well, I guess they "think" they do... until they actually do once she learns English well.


However there are happy marriages as well. Besides my client's I also know a few AM+RW couples here, locally and they are very happy together and some have been together for many years.

[Doll]

Ed, it is someimes hard to explain to RW living in the West, especially in America, how things can be so difficult.
 
They (the RW) will tell you how great AW are, how intelligent, beautiful, interesting, etc. they are. It must be you, the man.
 
One huge difference; they don't have to date them. Different prespectives is all.
 
P.S. I'm doing fine thank you very much. 

Actually, I was going to say it again (like I used to say), but you're right. I do see many nice women around but I don't know them as a marriage material.
So, got it, guys.

[Doll]

Ed, I am telling you based on real experience, that in the case of international dating it is next to impossible to recognize the "bi polar" or any sort of abuser. Quite often it is impossble!
Men who want the "prey" act perfectly or at least VERY well. You need to be very smart and medically educated to spot them.
They reveal their traits later- after wedding or after the baby is born.
You know what I am talking about.
Sometimes it takes years and years to realize who your husband is.
(Ed, may I have you email, please?)

[Eduard]

Ed, it is someimes hard to explain to RW living in the West, especially in America, how things can be so difficult.

This question always comes up when my clients and I meet their ladies. RW have a very hard time to fathom that things are so different here in the US when it comes to dating and male/female relationship dynamic. They look at my guys, now face to face in total disbeliefe tring to figure out "what's wrong with him that he can't find a girl in the USA?". I explain to them in Russian the situation here, and that I too had to go to Russia to find a wife, that usually puts them at ease although I still feel that question mark in their head. My wife had the same question and only finally accepted the reality once she was here and saw it with her own eyes.


PS. Chivo, about 8 years ago I could have easily moved back to Moscow and was seriously tempted to do that. But I was already 43 or 44 and really wanted to have a family and kids. I knew that if I moved there I probably would have continued dating to this day. It's too much fun there and can become an addiction with so many beautiful, available women everywhere.

[Eduard]

Ed, I am telling you based on real experience, that in the case of international dating it is next to impossible to recognize the "bi polar" or any sort of abuser. Quite often it is impossble!
Men who want the "prey" act perfectly or at least VERY well. You need to be very smart and medically educated to spot them.
They reveal their traits later- after wedding or after the baby is born.
You know what I am talking about.
Sometimes it takes years and years to realize who your husband is.
(Ed, may I have you email, please?)

I don't know if I can post my email here openly, you can just go on my site and email me from the site

[Doll]

I also think that you are not an objective person и все видите со своей колокольни

у меня такая колокольня, что вам и не снилась
 

[Eduard]

у меня такая колокольня, что вам и не снилась

У нас у всех такая своя колокольня есть ;-)

[Eduard]

у меня такая колокольня, что вам и не снилась

Моя жена кстати тоже на этом форуме (russian-fiancee) тусуется но она только в песочнице там сидит

[Doll]

I don't know if I can post my email here openly, you can just go on my site and email me from the site

ok

[JR]

Ed, I am telling you based on real experience, that in the case of international dating it is next to impossible to recognize the "bi polar" or any sort of abuser. Quite often it is impossble!
Men who want the "prey" act perfectly or at least VERY well. You need to be very smart and medically educated to spot them.
They reveal their traits later- after wedding or after the baby is born.
You know what I am talking about.
Sometimes it takes years and years to realize who your husband is.
(Ed, may I have you email, please?)

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see....
 
If a woman's primary desire is to move to another country she'll look right past the "bi-polar" indicators until she's firmly planted in the new country. Same goes for men....

[ML]

Ed your story about men/women situation in your area seems pretty extreme.

And another aspect.  If it is as you portray . . . then it would seem that your wife would be a constant target for other men.   

I realize that most of these slender FSU women are somewhat of a target when they are in USA (as is my Gal) but, again, the situation you describe in your area seems quite extreme.
 

[Misha]

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see....
 
If a woman's primary desire is to move to another country she'll look right past the "bi-polar" indicators until she's firmly planted in the new country. Same goes for men....

Or likely brush it off as "cultural" 

[JR]

Ed your story about men/women situation in your area seems pretty extreme.

Extreme situations require exteme measures, but remember that Ed "is" selling something )))

[Eduard]

Ed your story about men/women situation in your area seems pretty extreme.

And another aspect.  If it is as you portray . . . then it would seem that your wife would be a constant target for other men.   

I realize that most of these slender FSU women are somewhat of a target when they are in USA (as is my Gal) but, again, the situation you describe in your area seems quite extreme.

it is that bad here for a single guy. And I know other men here who went through exactly the same thing. Most recently my friend from Belarus got divorced from his Belorussian wife. They immigrated here together and were married for 15 years. He was going through the same thing for a year, not one date! And he is 38, smart, humorous, in great shape, attractive, owns a home and a brand new Camry. He was getting very frustrated with the dating scene her just as I was. I told him about Mamba and he finally found a girl from Kazakhstan who lives in the US and works as a college professor in a different state though. So they have been long distance dating for about 3 months now. He had absolutely no luck with American women, just like me. The only women that I had real dates with here were RW living in the US. I have other friends who don't want to or can't afford to go through the Russian woman search thing, some have been "single and looking" for many years now. It is that bad here!
Gator lives a little over ah hour drive North of me and he is saying that he doesn't have a problem dating local women, but ask him what age those women are. I bet you he'll tell you late 40s and in the 50s. Whis is fine for a guy his age, but for my 38 yo friend and for me when I was single and 43 dating or marrying 50 year old women wasn't an option. Yes, some of them were hitting on me, but I wasn't interested. I wanted to have kids.

[Eduard]

Extreme situations require exteme measures, but remember that Ed "is" selling something )))

JR, thanks for illustrating my point! 

[Doll]

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see....
 
If a woman's primary desire is to move to another country she'll look right past the "bi-polar" indicators until she's firmly planted in the new country. Same goes for men....

JR, once again- very often it is HARD to recognize the abuser (which can be a bipolar, BPD or anything) from that "shore". When dating, AM present themselves very nicely.  Looking back now I realized there were red flags but to see them at that time was very hard. Same happens very oftern to many FSU women.
Yes, I am talking of a "womens" side of a story.

[Gator]

Ed, I am telling you based on real experience, that in the case of international dating it is next to impossible to recognize the "bi polar" or any sort of abuser. Quite often it is impossble!
Men who want the "prey" act perfectly or at least VERY well. You need to be very smart and medically educated to spot them.
They reveal their traits later- after wedding or after the baby is born.
You know what I am talking about.
Sometimes it takes years and years to realize who your husband is.

Just spend the nght with him, and while he is sleeping, examine his medications.
 
In contrast to AM, RW are transparent.  A man knows from the beginning that they will be difficult.

[Doll]

Just spend the nght with him, and while he is sleeping, examine his medications.  
 
 

Well, if you find none, it doesn't mean there is no problem. Many of BP live in denial.

[mies]

Huge female population?!?! LOL For the same reason I went back to Russia to find my wife! I suspect for the same reason that Tim spent the last 3 years in South America...

The  "Rolling Stones lifestyle" in quite many aspects is a crime under current US law. This is why some people may want to go to South America or other foreign locations when they can't do certain things in their own country.
I am not saying that Tim traveled for those reasons, or exclusively for those reasons, I am just speculating about Rolling Stones' lifestyle.

With all due respect to Tim, and to you, Ed, I do not think that you went to Russia to drink unconscious and do all sort of other things Rolling Stones allegedly did during their wildest years.