When does the game stop?

[Jack]

but ask him what age those women are. I bet you he'll tell you late 40s and in the 50s. Whis is fine for a guy his age, but for my 38 yo friend and for me when I was single and 43 dating or marrying 50 year old women wasn't an option.

eduard, ML is also seeing women of this age.   I saw nothing at all extreme in your scenario and see the same in Dallas. But if your talking about women from 40 to 50 I think these guy's do not see what men are seeing looking for younger women.

[mies]

Ed, it is someimes hard to explain to RW living in the West, especially in America, how things can be so difficult.
 
They (the RW) will tell you how great AW are, how intelligent, beautiful, interesting, etc. they are. It must be you, the man.
 
One huge difference; they don't have to date them. Different prespectives is all.
 
P.S. I'm doing fine thank you very much. 

Ed and Chivo, thank you for sharing your perspective. Oh how i wish I were an American woman! Entitled to everything...living a dream....
oh..wait.. i already have everything i need and am living a dream 

[Gator]

Ed your story about men/women situation in your area seems pretty extreme.

Ed, my experience also differs from yours, yet the bottomline is I never met anyone with whom I made music.  You tried the bars. I have never met a good woman in a bar.  Maybe I am not bar material.      I met the mother of my sons at our condo pool, and my girlfriend before her at a volleyball game.     

After separating from my AW and before going to the FSU, I chased the local women (same region as Ed's but older women, 30-50).  I met many, or they met me.  But never at a bar.  I encountered many single women at diverse places: friends' engagement party for their daughter, yoga class, wine tasting, nature walk, concert, restaurant, etc.  I believe if you just show up and act normal, you will meet women, many women  . 

Then the hard part begins, namely dating.  Although I tried I never connected with anyone who lasted for more than 1-2 months.  It probably was my own fault, having all the sappy mind baggage of a recently divorced man.   The final one was a smart, young gorgeous AW, as young and beautiful as any RW.  Old men love young girls, so I lowered my guard.  After one month of bliss I was feeling something more than just a cannabis stupor.  She left me. 

So I went to Ukraine and Russia for 30 days.  In comparison to AW,  RW were easier to meet, better looking, younger, and more interesting.  What else could a man want?    
 
 
 

[mies]

it is that bad here for a single guy. And I know other men here who went through exactly the same thing. Most recently my friend from Belarus got divorced from his Belorussian wife. They immigrated here together and were married for 15 years. He was going through the same thing for a year, not one date! And he is 38, smart, humorous, in great shape, attractive, owns a home and a brand new Camry. He was getting very frustrated with the dating scene her just as I was. I told him about Mamba and he finally found a girl from Kazakhstan who lives in the US and works as a college professor in a different state though. So they have been long distance dating for about 3 months now. He had absolutely no luck with American women, just like me. The only women that I had real dates with here were RW living in the US. I have other friends who don't want to or can't afford to go through the Russian woman search thing, some have been "single and looking" for many years now. It is that bad here!
Gator lives a little over ah hour drive North of me and he is saying that he doesn't have a problem dating local women, but ask him what age those women are. I bet you he'll tell you late 40s and in the 50s. Whis is fine for a guy his age, but for my 38 yo friend and for me when I was single and 43 dating or marrying 50 year old women wasn't an option. Yes, some of them were hitting on me, but I wasn't interested. I wanted to have kids.

but then again my question: how does Tim manage to find women for dating no older than 32yo (and often younger) in USA?
Something does not add up. Do you two live in different countries?

[Gator]

but then again my question: how does Tim manage to find women for dating no older than 32yo (and often younger) in USA?
Something does not add up. Do you two live in different countries?

I can't resist. 
 
Pardon me Eduard, but maybe the answer is in the "acting normal" part of my guideline of "just show up and act normal."

[Patagonie]

"Just show up and act normal" : it is exactly why these guys don't have success in USA trying to date girls less than 38. For you Gator, odds are really differents.

[Misha]

but then again my question: how does Tim manage to find women for dating no older than 32yo (and often younger) in USA?
Something does not add up. Do you two live in different countries?

Isn't Tim dating these no older than 32yo women in Latin America?

[Patagonie]

Huge female population?!?! LOL For the same reason I went back to Russia to find my wife! I suspect for the same reason that Tim spent the last 3 years in South America... This varies to a degree in different areas/cities in the USA but I hear a very similar account of dating from men who live in many different cities in the USA and Canada.


I'll try to explain. bare in mind that I was married to an AW and spent 15 years with her, I speak fluent English, so I could date either AW or RW, at the time I was single I was 43-44, attractive, in good shape (I worked out every day, played tennis, took marshall arts and played beach volleyball) owned my house (no mortgage) even had a great Jacuzzi perfect for partying with the girls... but the girls never came!  [size=78%] I'm a social guy and have no problem starting a conversation with women, I was DJing at the time so was in front of many people often, MCing parties, etc. Now you would think a guy like that shouldn't have a problem meeting women, particularly if he is looking for LTR, marriage and family. In the FSU I would have been having a ball! The time of my life! Probably would have so many beautiful women that I wouldn't be able to stop and settle down with just one (how are you doing,Chivo? ;-).[/size]
However not the case here, in Sarasota/Bradenton, FL area where I live. Here it exactly like FSU but a 180 degrees in reverse when it comes to dating dynamics. A single, reasonably attractive woman can be a player and have any guy she wants. It is pathetic here for men. There are a lot of retirees in this area so many old people. There are some younger people but mostly married couples. Imagine this - you go to a night club and there will be about a 100 guys there and 10-15 women! And most of these women are there with a date or a husband. The only women usually available for a "pick up" in the bars here are in their 50s. When on a rare occasion there is an attractive woman out she will get approached by a ton of men and she has so many options that your chances are next to nothing. I went out with one relatively attractive girl a couple of times, but it didn't go anywhere... I later found out from a mutual acquaintance (a female) that she had 3 guys she was dating at the same time, each guy lived in a nearby city. Yes, pretty girls have too many options of single men here.


I also had ads on yahoo personals and match.com. I contacted hundreds of women but only a few responded and in 2 years I went out maybe with about 4 of them. I wasn't attracted at all to any of them.
The bottom line: The only women who were willing to chat and to date me were unattractive and overweight to obese, or they were much older - late 40s to early 50s. Any single women in my age range (24 to 35) who were reasonably attractive had a serious entitlement attitude probably because they had so many options.


Two women did get me excited for a few minutes. I met one at a religious science church (yes, I tried religious institutions of different kinds as well). She was reasonably attractive, single (with a child) in her early 30s and agreed to go out with me. On the day of the date she told me that she wanted me to meet some of her friends... so she took me to an Amway meeting!!!  After the meeting she had to go... LOL, I should have seen that one coming!
The other girl was a hooters waitress where I had lunch with a few friends of mine. A very pretty Hispanic girl who as I found out on our "date" was also a mortgage broker and she wanted to sell me a mortgage. 


I did a little experiment - placed a female ad on one of the dating sites just to see what kind of response a cute 27 yo girl would get from men. By the time I finished uploading the photos there were 30 messages in my mail box, by the end of that first day there was almost 500 messages from guys from all over Tampa Bay are and some other cities in FL. It was unbelievable!!! And many guys were nice, good looking and obviously had serious intentions. Sure there were a few idiots too but can you imagine how many choices a cute girl has here? By the end of the week I had more than a 1000 responces...


I tried chatting with women from other areas of the USA and had a little better rate of response from reasonably attractive women in places like TX, NY and MI. But the problem with that was that they all had their career and wouldn't consider moving to FL. Meanwhile I definitely didn't want to leave this area because I adore the lifestyle here.


When I travelled to Russia for the first time since I immigrated to the US,I was able to meet 4 women a day (instead of 4 in 2 years) and these Russian women were beautiful, slim,  and no feministic/entitlement attitude either! And they were willing to date and get In a relationship with me. I mean it was like day and night! What an amazing difference! Here in Florida it's easy for a man to start getting self esteem issues because even if you are reasonably attractive the only women that are available to date are either obese or very unattractive. Now if a man has that "gladiator" look, very tall, really pumped and very handsome, sure he'll have young girls all over him and even some married women wouldn't be opposed to "playing" with him. But if you are a bit more average looking,have body hair or God forbid facial hair - you are pretty much out of luck. Going to Russia was like a breath of fresh air. What a difference, you start feeling like you are alive again. Women stared in my eyes, obviously flirted, sometimes asked questions just to start a conversation, what an amazing difference!
After experiencing that and coming back to Florida I realised that I didn't want any more frustration in my life trying to find a decent looking, nice, family oriented woman here, where I live and decided that I would find my wife in the FSU.


It was very easy to connect with many girls in Russia, I talked to lots and found my wife in about 3 months.

.


Thank you Eduard to share with us your personal experience of the US dating scene. It is quite interesting. In France, fortunately we don't have reach this type of "desert". I think also it depends of state and town in US. But i'm pretty sure that we are getting the same situation in Europe. Just perhaps laws protect us better in general. The only thing who can make barrage is named the Game. But when you have a too big disproportion between men and women... I cannot see any solutions. Just go to FSU.

[mies]

Isn't Tim dating these no older than 32yo women in Latin America?

I was under impression he said he can do, and does it both in Latin America AND in USA. I apologize if I confused the facts, sometimes it is hard to keep track of who said what.

[Eduard]

I can't resist. 
 
Pardon me Eduard, but maybe the answer is in the "acting normal" part of my guideline of "just show up and act normal."

Phil, you have met me at least a couple of times. Do you feel like I'm the type of guy who doesn't act normal?
Why do you assume that I was trying to meet women at bars? I don't even drink... As I explained earlier (I guess you missed it) I tried going to churches, museums, art galleries, parks, dance clubs, book stores, concerts, fairs, exhibitions, you name it. Plus I was gigging as a DJ/singer (both you and Tim saw me in action at Simoni's wedding, didn't you?) Being on stage in front of crowds of people you would think it would be easy to meet younger prettier women? Didn't happen for me! Sure, I did get a few numbers here and there, but they didn't lead to anyting. Perhaps it was a bit difficult for me to settle for the women who were available since my first wife was very attractive and my Moldovan live in girlfriend of 6.5 years was stunning, a real head turner. I wasn't looking for stunning or gorgeous, just some one I felt some attraction to. I couldn't find that here in Tampa Bay.


If I wanted to get A woman, I could have done that easily, but that would mean I'd have to accept an unattractive, thick or fat woman, or an older woman. I see couples like this here all the time - a decent looking guy in good shape and next to him a 250lbs wife or girlfriend. My wife still can't get used to seeing this. I didn't want to be like this!


SO I WENT TO RUSSIA TO FIND A WOMAN i FELT ATTRACTED TO!!!!!! AND NO, JR, THIS IS NOT A SALES PITCH, THIS IS WHAT I DID!!!     I'm not just the hair club owner, I'm also a client!


I did find a couple of women in the US that I found attractive - one lived in NY, the other one in Orlando. Both were Russian... I dated the one from Orlando for a couple of months. I knew she was a b!tch the day I met her but I was terribly lonely and she had an amazing butt... so I figured I'd put up with her aweful personality for a little bit. After a couple of months I broke up with her because   dealing with her personality just wasn't worth it. The one in NY was very pretty, exactly my type and she really liked me and I took her out a couple of times when visiting my mom in NY. But I noticed a couple of things about her personality that I didn't want in my mate so I didn't persue the relationship with her. These two were the highlight of my  2 year dating experince here. The only guy I knew who was successful in dating attractive women here in SRQ was a former model himself. We used to go "women hunting" together often and he did score with some good looking women.
In Russia I was just as successful as him with women and I didn't have to be a model...

[Misha]

I was under impression he said he can do, and does it both in Latin America AND in USA. I apologize if I confused the facts, sometimes it is hard to keep track of who said what.

Many will claim that they can date young and attractive women at home, so perhaps you are right.

[Gator]

Phil, you have met me at least a couple of times. Do you feel like I'm the type of guy who doesn't act normal?

First, I was making a joke yet such is usually not amusing to the object of the joke.  My apology because I don't know how you act with AW, nor do I know how AW perceive you.   Women in general are a mystery, whether AW or RW.   I found RW more pragmatic and direct than AW.  "Pragmatic and direct" is the style of a man.
 

Why do you assume that I was trying to meet women at bars?

"Imagine this - you go to a night club and there will be about a 100 guys there and 10-15 women! "   But you did explain you exhausted all opportunities.  So I misread it. 
 

Sure, I did get a few numbers here and there, but they didn't lead to anyting. Perhaps it was a bit difficult for me to settle for the women who were
available since my first wife was very attractive and my Moldovan live in girlfriend of 6.5 years was stunning, a real head turner.

After dining on caviar, fried fish stix just don't do it for me either. 

The only guy I knew who was successful in dating attractive women here in SRQ was a former model himself. We used to go "women hunting" together often and he did score with some good looking women.  In Russia I was just as successful as him with women and I didn't have to be a model...

You are selling yourself short.  I am not gay, but if I were, you would be an attractive date.   

[mies]

Many will claim that they can date young and attractive women at home, so perhaps you are right.

or maybe it's a classic case of russian "и Bы говорите..."

[Eduard]

First, I was making a joke yet such is usually not amusing to the object of the joke.  My apology because I don't know how you act with AW, nor do I know how AW perceive you.   Women in general are a mystery, whether AW or RW.   I found RW more pragmatic and direct than AW.  "Pragmatic and direct" is the style of a man.
 
"Imagine this - you go to a night club and there will be about a 100 guys there and 10-15 women! "   But you did explain you exhausted all opportunities.  So I misread it. 
 
After dining on caviar, fried fish stix just don't do it for me either. 

You are selling yourself short.  I am not gay, but if I were, you would be an attractive date.   

Phil, if I ever become single and gay, it's a date! 

[mies]

.

[ML]

eduard, ML is also seeing women of this age.   

Yes, but they look younger !   

Does  this look like a mid 40s woman?
 

[IAmZon]

The  "Rolling Stones lifestyle" in quite many aspects is a crime under current US law. This is why some people may want to go to South America or other foreign locations when they can't do certain things in their own country.
I am not saying that Tim traveled for those reasons, or exclusively for those reasons, I am just speculating about Rolling Stones' lifestyle.

With all due respect to Tim, and to you, Ed, I do not think that you went to Russia to drink unconscious and do all sort of other things Rolling Stones allegedly did during their wildest years.

The over-all dialogue here, and this particular quote, has inspired me to grab my testicles and PULL.    If you have a rated R-13 thought in the USA, I am sure you have broken a dozen laws!  The USA has taken the red out of meat.  I prefer to live with risk, and consequences, and passion.

I am a gentleman 99.9% of the time.  And, the truth is that I do like to seduce and be seduced - however, only on occasions do I commit (to a happening).   It must be a real and sincere connection ... It could be chemistry, or intellectual curiosity, or whatever; but there has to be something.  And, for me, it happens for me rarely.   These times are special, not cheap.  I can remember every such experience VIVIDLY.  And this is how it should be.  I hate the idea of getting laid when drunk.  If there ever was a sin, this is it IMO. 

More to the point, the idea that men are running around like horny little puppies seeking any warm welcome offends me. I prefer a survival of the fittest dating environment. I know I am different nowadays.  I hope I do not offend, but in the USA, we suffer from GPS.  Golden ------  Syndrome.

As I have posted on this thread, ant others, I do not intend to brag, or offend.  My points are my opinions or observations.  They are what they are for me.  I rarely have met women over the age of 32 in South America - that's a fact.  In these countries, a woman after the age of 28 is sort of screwed as for as finding a husband goes.  I know it sounds peculiar to an American ear, but that is the way it is. 

I am a man,  and I am not separated from my sexuality.  I am passionate and sensual and confident - I notice when women are attracted to me (I know, I have broken a butt load of US laws by suggesting that this is even a possibility!).   AT THE SAME TIME, it does not give me any problem to go without sex for 3 - 4 months if I do not find a worthy match and purpose.  "No me importa un culo"  I don't give a S$it.    I have already lived the life of 100 sailors, and am far a better man for it.


Entonces, me amores, you ought to know my thoughts on these oblique incriminations. 

[mies]

The over-all dialogue here, and this particular quote, has inspired me to grab my testicles and PULL.    If you have a rated R-13 thought in the USA, I am sure you have broken a dozen laws!  The USA has taken the red out of meat.  I prefer to live with risk, and consequences, and passion.

What is a rated R-13?

Please, do not misunderstand me, Rivardco. I do not criticize your lifestyle. I am not saying what is right or what is wrong. I just stated that maybe you went abroad to explore freedom, and not to find the wife, unlike Ed did.
You are surely an interesting person. Fun to be with, but hard to live with.

The new avatar suites well your comment 

[IAmZon]

Please, do not misunderstand me, Rivardco. I do not criticize your lifestyle. I am not saying what is right or what is wrong. I just stated that maybe you went abroad to explore freedom, and not to find the wife, unlike Ed did.

Groovy.   That means - all good.   R-13 - means slightly not vanilla    

Explore freedom - EXACTLY. 

Add a little party, song and dance to this, and you will understand me .... "I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived."  HD Thoreau

[mies]

.

[Gator]

Tim,

I say this not to be critical but to help.  I mentioned earlier in one of your threads that the many FSU ladies in attendance noticed you at Simoni's wedding party.  At my table I heard one RW/UW say to her husband, "There is something wrong with that man. " 

You are a free spirit.  IMO nothing wrong with that, and in fact it makes you interesting.  You will never bore a woman, and boredom is indeed a fatal sin. However, there is more to life and marriage.  As you consider dating FSUW, keep in mind they quite possibly will have some preconceived notions discriminating against you.   

The RW here at RWD may have some suggestions regarding potential perceptions of you.   OTOH, maybe you will meet someone just like yourself.  Or meet that special someone who somehow compels you to make some enhancements just for her benefit.

P. S.  - Enjoy the Carnival and diving.  Sounds like a blast.

[Jack]

OTOH, maybe you will meet someone just like yourself. 

Gator it is my impression that Tim is going to look, and look, until he finds a lady he has a pure and natural chemistry with.  A woman who likes everything about him, he does not have to change one thing about himself, and he is looking for a woman that he likes everything about her, she does not need to change anything about herself.   A pure and natural chemistry.  The same thing many of the best marriages are made of. 

[mies]

Tim,

I say this not to be critical but to help.  I mentioned earlier in one of your threads that the many FSU ladies in attendance noticed you at Simoni's wedding party.  At my table I heard one RW/UW say to her husband, "There is something wrong with that man. " 

You are a free spirit.  IMO nothing wrong with that, and in fact it makes you interesting.  You will never bore a woman, and boredom is indeed a fatal sin. However, there is more to life and marriage.  As you consider dating FSUW, keep in mind they quite possibly will have some preconceived notions discriminating against you.   

The RW here at RWD may have some suggestions regarding potential perceptions of you.   OTOH, maybe you will meet someone just like yourself.  Or meet that special someone who somehow compels you to make some enhancements just for her benefit.

P. S.  - Enjoy the Carnival and diving.  Sounds like a blast.

See, IMHO, there is a fundamental contradiction: this person cannot be "just like Tim" = "a free spirit" and at the same time a submissive "traditional wife" who will put his and family priorities before her own. She's either a traditional wife or a free spirit. The distinction is not just in having interests of another person more important than own (selfless vs. selfish), it's about what sort of priorities she has in general.
If Tim will meet a "traditional wife" without changing himself first, - he will make her life miserable, and if her personality is strong - she will make his life miserable too. If he'll meet a free spirit just like him - he won't get the "traditional wife" treatment he was describing in some length in this thread.

[Faux Pas]

See, IMHO, there is a fundamental contradiction: this person cannot be "just like Tim" = "a free spirit" and at the same time a submissive "traditional wife" who will put his and family priorities before her own. She's either a traditional wife or a free spirit. The distinction is not just in having interests of another person more important than own (selfless vs. selfish), it's about what sort of priorities she has in general.
If Tim will meet a "traditional wife" without changing himself first, - he will make her life miserable, and if her personality is strong - she will make his life miserable too. If he'll meet a free spirit just like him - he won't get the "traditional wife" treatment he was describing in some length in this thread.

Excellent point. 

Pretty much what is referred to as a Mexican standoff. I do think Tim can find his happy medium once he decides it isn't "all about Tim". Relationships are (IMHO) all about give and take and wanting to do both. Seems near impossible for two "truly" free spirits.

[Doll]

See, IMHO, there is a fundamental contradiction: this person cannot be "just like Tim" = "a free spirit" and at the same time a submissive "traditional wife" who will put his and family priorities before her own. She's either a traditional wife or a free spirit. The distinction is not just in having interests of another person more important than own (selfless vs. selfish), it's about what sort of priorities she has in general.
If Tim will meet a "traditional wife" without changing himself first, - he will make her life miserable, and if her personality is strong - she will make his life miserable too. If he'll meet a free spirit just like him - he won't get the "traditional wife" treatment he was describing in some length in this thread.

We all know, that for a certain period of time she (free spirit or traditional) will have to stay with him just because the immigration status.
And even then she will have to decide because GC itself doesn't pay the bills.